One point: why are you so quick to dismiss the possibility that George W. Bush is a Christian Zionist and Christian Armageddonist? All the evidence points in that direction, especially in his biography. He fits the psychological profile to a tee. He's a clone of any number of Free Republic crackpots who confuse the government of Israel with God Himself.
Bush is unable to put two words together, not to mention two thoughts. When he speaks about Israel, he appears to go into a tremulous, brainwashed trance. His finger is on the button. He is beginning to scare his own military establishment concerning what he might do in the Mideast. There is not the slightest sign that the oil industry is agitating for an American nuclear attack on Iran. Leading oil industry executives were opposed to Iraq War. The oil industry has traditionally sought *friendly*, not confrontational, relations with Arab and Muslim oil-producing nations, to the great dismay and displeasure of Israel.
I'll wager anything that Bush, in his mind, thinks he has some special relationship with the Antichrist, the Second Coming and Armageddon. Clearly there are some kind of bizarre ideational patterns sloshing around in his confused head, and it's a safe bet that they revolve around the same apocalyptic fantasies that govern the minds of many of his fellow Christian evangelicals.
As for the role of Israel and the Israel lobby in all this: they are using Christian Zionists, and American military power, to crush their enemies in the Mideast and all around the world, regardless of the consequences for the United States and Europe. What could be more obvious? Many neocons have been absolutely up-front about what they are up to -- their strategy and tactics are an open book.
LeaNder <email@example.com> wrote:
interesting, although unfortunately I can only read about 10% of what
I would like. And I have a tendency to start historically and then
built up. So I would need a much better basis in US history and
religion, with special attention on religion-and-politics plus
religion-and-economy. If I recollect the passage in Mark
Gersons: The neocon vision, correctly there is quite a bit of activity
in moving this two seemingly separate fields closer.
Due to it's opaque nature "the revelation" is probably one of the most
misused parts of the bible. The problem is, you can read into it
whatever you like. As someone who studied arts (literature, theatre,
film, movies) I have to admit I would like to read a compartive study
in the use and misuse of this part of the scriptures over the centuries.
> A few points:
> 1. John Hagee believes that the United States will be (and should
be) nuked by God if it fails to obey Greater Israelists in the Israeli
Actually a US madman I discovered on the net brought me to the yahoo
lists. To him the US was the big Satan, his imagery relied heavily on
the bible. Does Hagee treat this phenomenon historically? That is the
main characters involved in this game, the different groups and their
connections with right wing politics? Their publications?
> 2. The CPMAJO (Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish
Organizations) is by far the most powerful Jewish and Israeli lobbying
group in the world, and it supports John Hagee and his fellow
Christian Armageddonists. AIPAC and the ADL are only two of a dozen
or so components of the CPMAJO. (Most Americans know very little
about the CPMAJO, since the mainstream media take care to whisper
about it only occasionally.)
I am not so sure what to think about these connections. They may
initially have been a strategy to deal with "the antagonistic
Christian faith", that is the bible as a source of antisemitism.
Speaking of unwanted consequences. Concerning the CPMAJO I would like
to see a comparative study of other institutions, say Catholic,
Protestant ... My hypothesis would be that they all show a trend
towards conservatism or keeping the status quo. So generally I would
find alliances among them not so surprising. My problem is I find the
Marxist position of religion as drug to trick people a bit simplistic too.
> 3. Kevin Phillips, one of the most astute analysts of political
trends in America, argues in his latest book that Christian
fundamentalists have become very (and dangerously) powerful in the
Republican Party and the United States in general. Since they think
the world is going to end at any moment, they don't really give a damn
about supporting any policies that make practical efforts to improve
the quality of life of Americans or anyone else.
Well actually it's debts, oil, religion. Somehow I would like to know
what exactly happened in Iraq after the take over. The special rules
concerning oil were written in the US? I think your pro-Israel view is
interesting but I am pretty sure there are a whole lot of other
interests sitting in that boat. What about Cheney's super secret
energy circle? Even if they did not join the drumming for the war?
Have they ever joined the chorus to give voice to their political
views, instead of simply lobbing behind close doors for the best laws
and regulations for business?
> Phillips' new book is American Theocracy:
> 4. The views of fundies like Hagee are so alien to American values
and the American interest, and so sympathetic to scenarios in which
Americans are attacked by the angry God of Israel, that one wonders
whether they shouldn't be treated as potential religious terrorists.
Some definitely look pretty fanatic, like the ones that kill doctors
in abortion clinics. ...
> 5. George W. Bush himself is quite likely a Christian Armageddonist,
and may believe that he is on mission from God to trigger the End of
the World. There are obviously some very crazy thoughts floating
around in his head.
Sean, this is something I do not believe a bit. There might be a bit
of religious tarnish, and this might well be part of the election
strategy. How many of his total vote? 36% are from the bible belt?
It's not such an NEW strategy either, already the European monarchies
relied on the myth of a lineage down to the House of David.
Without doubt religion seems to play a strong role in US election
campaigns and here indeed institutions might be considered as natural
partners. We use the term "multipliers" in this context. Institutions
are multipliers as single persons or institutions who can pass on a
view to the masses. Now that the bible belt is solidly under control,
the next step seems to be to reach out to the Jewish US communities.
And in this context the cooperation with the Jewish institutions might
indeed be a professional part in the larger strategy.
Already now the terms liberal and left are used as synonmyms and
without a distinction to a high percentage as an insult. I wonder
where this will lead?
> LeaNder <l.l.hahn@...> wrote:
>  Think I am being alarmist? On the relations between the
> of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations and Christian
> Armageddonist John Hagee, see:
> Yes, Sean, I often thought you were slightly alarmist. Maybe I just
> have heard to many bible based prophesies. But yes, I have to admit
> that these religious fanatics frightens me a bit too. Somehow I can't
> help, but think religion is a bit misused here. Talking of sheep.
> Sheep are good, always vote as they are told.
> > One thing is for certain: the Israel lobby doesn't represent the
> views of the majority of Jews in America.
> Definitely, lately I read an interesting exchange on the topic. Jewish
> Americans seem to watch this with alarm, while Israelis tend to take
> it with a grain of salt, mainly joking about it. Gallows humor?
> But then look at this
> The rabbi likes the book because after reading it he realizes what Mr.
> Hagee believes & then states.....a TV Pastor has proven from the
> Christian bible that Jews do not need to be converted.
> I wasn't aware of Jones and Jonestown by the way. Why are so many
> files top secret?
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