Discussion about 09/11/2001: [911TruthAction] Digest Number 1225

Friday, April 14, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1225

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. · The Al Qaeda Myth - tvnl news
From: "reggie501" <reggie501@optonline.net>
2. Fw: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked; Al-Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies"
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
3. RE: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
4. Fw: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
5. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
6. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
7. Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
8. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
9. Fw: Frosty Wooldridge: Globalism: You won't like it.
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
10. Fwd: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Welcome 2 the World of Synthetic Terror:the so-called terror attacks of Sept 11, 2001 were faked
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
11. Fw: Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby" -=- Joseph Massad joins Chomsky in defending The Lobby - Response from Blankfort
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
12. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
13. Re: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
14. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
15. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
16. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
17. Re: Do Mexicans have Permits For Protests of 50K to 500,000 ...
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
18. Charlie Sheen on Ellen Friday and Jimmy Kimmel Friday Night
From: "Scott" <sledger911@yahoo.com>
19. RE: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
20. Re: Do Mexicans have Permits For Protests of 50K to 500,000 ...
From: NoRedCoats@aol.com
21. CharliSheen onABC Jimmy Kimmel TV Show Fri April 14 12:05 EST+9/11++
From: ranger116@webtv.net
22. RE: CENSORING EMAILS
From: John Perna <savefreedom2005@yahoo.com>
23. RE: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked;
From: APFN <apfn@apfn.org>
24. Re: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
25. Neocon: Iran will have Nuke in Sixteen Days
From: "yahoo" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:33:49 -0000
From: "reggie501" <reggie501@optonline.net>
Subject: · The Al Qaeda Myth - tvnl news

9/11 News : http://www.tvnewslies.org/news/#911

· The Al Qaeda Myth - What do these revelations tell us about the
arguments of President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Blair that in
Al Qaeda the "Free World" faces a threat comparable to that of the
Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, a world-wide terrorist network which
seeks to build a radical Islamist empire over half the world? That
they are threadbare, to say the least. But also that they are cynical,
misleading and self serving.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:32:59 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked; Al-Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies"

Professor A. K. Dewdney is a name you can trust in 9-11 investigating. --
Dick Eastman.

----- Original Message -----
From: Alex James
To: Alex James
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked;
Al-Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies"

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked;
Al-Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies"

Please circulate World-wide

How long will it take members of the corporate media to break free with this
story? Their colleagues may be unaware that the country of Venezuela has
undertaken an international inquiry into 9/11. They may be unaware that
Charlie Sheen's allegations are but the tip of an iceberg or unaware of the
deception in Iraq or that the Osama tapes are faked.

From: Nila Sagadevan
To: 911 Research ; 911 Project ; Aero
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: SPINE Press Release

The following SPINE press release was sent yesterday to the editors of over
1,000 American newspapers...

THE WORLD OF SYNTHETIC TERROR

April 5th, 2006 (Physics911.net) - The evidence is in, the analyses have
been made, and conclusions have been drawn by scientists, engineers and
other experts: the so-called terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were
faked. There is, moreover, independent evidence from multiple and credible
sources that Al Qaeda is the creation of western intelligence agencies.

If you have any questions concerning these assertions, visit
http://www.physics911.net

The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven has formed around this
website. The Panel consists of over thirty experts in the fields of science,
engineering, architecture, intelligence, the military, medicine, Islamic
studies and other disciplines. The members are willing to stand up and be
counted, even the ones with the highest public profiles. You will find them
listed on this page: http://physics911.net/spine.htm.

Of course, the Physics 911 website is hardly alone in cyberspace. There are
now literally hundreds of skeptical websites on the internet (with only a
handful of dissenting sites defending the official story). There are other
working groups with websites, as well, not to mention thousands of people
doing their own inquiries into 911, and millions of people skeptical of the
official story (including 48% of New Yorkers, according to a Zogby poll
taken in 2005).

We are now living in what has been called the Age of Synthetic Terror. In
contrast to the corporate media line, "terrorism" is the brainchild and
product of western intelligence agencies. Its purpose is to foment domestic
anger at Muslims in order to justify a program of a) invasion of sovereign
nations, b) seizure of their oil resources, c) mass murder designed to look
like sectarian violence, d) establishing permanent military bases and e) the
installation of puppet governments in the countries so affected.

It follows that the mass murder of 9/11, blamed on Arab/Muslim patsies, was
but the opening scene of a drama that would have many acts, with hundreds of
thousands of murders to follow.

There is one and only one way to bring this program of synthetic terror to
an end. The knowledge that we have acquired must be made public and made
public soon. The next massive military operation may be against Iran. Such
an attack would require a triggering episode in which a handful of Muslims,
Iranian this time, would be blamed for the bombing of a western target,
possibly involving a nuclear device, given the (pretended) concern over
Iran's nuclear program. (Think Iraq. Think WMDs.)

The story is yours.

A. K. Dewdney, PhD
Coordinator Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven

################################################################

Welcome to the World of Synthetic Terror
April 5th, 2006 (Physics911.net) - The evidence is in, the analyses have
been made, and conclusions have been drawn by scientists, engineers and
other experts: the so-called terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were
faked. There is, moreover, independent evidence from multiple and credible
sources that Al Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies.
If you have any questions concerning these assertions, visit
http://www.physics911.net
The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven has formed around this
website. The Panel consists of over thirty experts in the fields of science,
engineering, architecture, intelligence, the military, medicine, Islamic
studies and other disciplines. The members are willing to stand up and be
counted, even the ones with the highest public profiles. You will find them
on the members list, accessible from the button near the top of this page.
Of course, the Physics 911 website is hardly alone in cyberspace. There are
now literally hundreds of skeptical websites on the internet (with only a
handful of dissenting sites defending the official story). There are other
working groups with websites, as well, not to mention thousands of people
doing their own inquiries into 911 and millions of people skeptical of the
official story (including 48% of New Yorkers, according to a Zogby poll
taken in 2005).
We are now living in what has been called the Age of Synthetic Terror. In
contrast to the corporate media line, "terrorism" is the brainchild and
product of western intelligence agencies. Its purpose is to foment domestic
anger at Muslims in order to justify a program of a) invasion of sovereign
nations, b) seizure of their oil resources, c) mass murder designed to look
like sectarian violence, d) establishing permanent military bases and e) the
installation of puppet governments in the countries so affected.
It follows that the mass murder of 9/11, blamed on Arab/Muslim patsies, was
but the opening scene of a drama that would have many acts, with hundreds of
thousands of murders to follow.
There is one and only one way to bring this program of synthetic terror to
an end. The knowledge that we have acquired must be made public and made
public soon. The next massive military operation may be against Iran. Such
an attack would require a triggering episode in which a handful of Muslims,
Iranian this time, would be blamed for the bombing of a western target,
possibly involving a nuclear device, given the (pretended) concern over
Iran's nuclear program. (Think Iraq. Think WMDs.)
How long will it take members of the corporate media to break free with this
story? Their colleagues may be unaware that the country of Venezuela has
undertaken an international inquiry into 9/11. They may be unaware that
Charlie Sheen's allegations are but the tip of an iceberg or unaware of the
deception in Iraq or that the Osama tapes are faked.
The story is yours.
A. K. Dewdney
Coordinator Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/17/060317223746.5pa6agm4.html
'Crash' director to lead Hollywood anti-Iraq war protest
Paul Haggis, the Canadian director of "Crash", this year's Oscar winner for
best picture, will lead a protest in Hollywood this weekend against the war
in Iraq, now three years old, organizers said.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:04:03 -0500
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

No Dick, I will reply in more detail later. This event is not all that
substantially different in character than Gulf of Tonkin, and many other
similar, etc. Its done by the arms and arms finance industry, with key
government official taking the lead role in the disinformation campaign.
You’re mixing too many factors together and as with so many similar events
in our history it originates from within our power structure. Israel is an
incidental beneficiary, even if mossad or some other free lance foreign
black op covert agencies were used. It is also like Hitler’s Reichstag fire;
purpose to use domestic terror gain control of the government and the
internal political agenda. Don’t blind yourself with the anger towards
Israel or Zionists.

Further your contention;

“Mossad would be the agency that would then oversee the positioning of
accomplices/moles/operatives in all of the
critical/strategic/necessary/sufficient positions in the U.S. and British
institutions (MI5, MI6, NSA, CIA, FBI, WHite House, Pentagon, FAA)”

Sorry, but that Is (respectfully) ridiculous on its face.

If that really is your conclusion start presenting the facts and prove it
and stop just offering opinions and theories and conjecture as conclusions,
just because you see some overlapping categories among these groups and some
possible motives, all that is not proof.

Later …

Leslie

_____

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:59 AM
To: 911-disc@yahoogroups.com; 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie
Schwartz, Dick Eastman

----- Original Message -----

From: Leslie Schwartz <mailto:lhs_emf@pacbell.net>

To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:17 PM

Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

>I have seen a number of messages on this message board NOT making that
distinction, and in fact lumping together, Jews, Zionists, Neocons, mossad,
Judaism, Israelis, Ashkenazi Jews, the Rothschild’s, the illuminati, the
Rockefellers, the Warburg’s, PNAC, the CFR, the etc. and etc., and
mentioning specific high profile people who may fall within one or more of
those categories.

Leslie, all these terms are in use by people doing their own detective work
on 9-11 and the origin of the Arab-American wars. When Wolfowitz has Perle,
Kissinger, Feith etc. in a group at the Pentagon in the months leading up to
9-11 and when there is proof that the attack on the Pentagon was an
inside-job -- then we must ask ourselves what these men -- Wolfowitz, Perle,
Kissinger, Feith, Dov Zakheim, Rumsfeld have in common that may be clues to
their organization/motives/network/method etc. When dealing the Perle,
Wolfowitz and Kissinger a great many leads are obvious -- Jews, Zionists,
Neocons, Mossad, Likud, the Rothschild’s, the Rockefellers, PNAC, the CFR.

Think about this: An operation like 9-11 -- if it was an inside-job
false-flag operation at all -- could not have originated in the overt
organization charts of U.S. agencies -- it must have had its origins in
secret groups of people who could trust each other with such (dastardly,
illegal, secrecy-demanding) plans. Mossad is one of only a few
possibilities of where the idea could have been hatched (the other
possibility is that the idea was hatched among a group of the world's
billionaires -- Perle and Kissinger being their agents -- but even in this
case, the next step would have had to have been to bring in Mossad as the
primary "caterer" -- because only Mossad (unlike CIA, NSA, MI6) had the
ethnic, religious and ideological unity/solidarity (let's call it 'radical
likudnikism' if not "Zionism") to work in confidence of the unlikliness of
betrayal.

Mossad would be the agency that would then oversee the positioning of
accomplices/moles/operatives in all of the
critical/strategic/necessary/sufficient positions in the U.S. and British
institutions (MI5, MI6, NSA, CIA, FBI, WHite House, Pentagon, FAA) as well
as the key control positions of the private sector (sufficient mass media,
ADL, think tanks, opinion makers). This could not be accomplished by any
organization -- say the NSA -- within the U.S. -- the American leadership
by "yes-men" is not that dependable. And so Mossad made sure that all
strategic points within the Pentagon were made secure for 9-11. etc.

You yourself are being unfair, Leslie, when you say we "lump together" these
terms. When I say "Zionist" I do not mean "Jews" (as in all Jews) -- when
I say CFR or PNAC or ADL I mean exactly those organizations and nothing
else. No one is "lumping" (i.e., equating) all these things anywhere.
Remember, I have said again and again that only individuals commit crimes,
not groups -- but individuals work in groups and for groups and it is in
groups that we find them and understand them.

>I also recall some hater using the term “crypto-Jews” on this message board
as if any self respecting individual is going to hide the fact they are
Jewish becomes THAT writer hates Jews. This is delusional and it is
offensive.

I also heard someone refer to the Charlie Sheen as a "crypto-Jew" -- a term
I don't understand -- maybe Charlie has Jewish people in his family tree,
and maybe he does not advertize it (why should he bother -- unless to help
his career in Hollywood, but apparently he has not bothered) -- but look at
Ed Asner -- also speaking about the 9-11 standdown (I know that Asner is
talking "false-flag", I haven't heard him yet) -- but I ask you Leslie --
is "crypto-Jew" any less of an unfair term than calling me a "hater" just
because I look in the backgrounds of Perle, Wolfowitz, Kissinger etc. and
find common elements of Zionists, Neocons, CFR, Rockefellers, Rothschilds
(in Perle's case)? Certainly it is reasonable to look at their backgrounds
-- certainly these ties are relevant -- or af least very very very
suspicious.

When necessary and accurate distinctions are not made and a message goes out
which obviously has some emotion, even anger over the events associated with
9/11/01 (emotion which is otherwise understandable) it is an ugly thing to
read, its racist, its UN-AMERICAN and I personally do not think it helps
anyone to understand these events or how we can constructively respond to
the overall situation.

You are right -- and the worst part is that it alienates intelligent and
fair-minded people like yourself, especially since you are Jewish and Jews
are needed in raising the cry against the perpetrators -- if only to
overcome the strong negatives of the "Jew haters" like me -- or like I have
been written off as being.

If you want to be taken seriously and treated with respect for your research
and comments, you should know that is not going to be the response when you
basically write everything bad that happens in this world is one kind of
flavor of the month “Jewish conspiracy” by one name or another.

But 9-11 was a conspiracy of one kind and it did involve men who are
confirmed Zionists, it did involve Mossad (see my reasons for saying this),
and it did involve the neo-cons -- as represented by the leadership at the
Pentagon -- but of course including Cheney and (cipher) Bush (the former of
which is a Zionist -- the latter merely a sociopathic useful idiot).

If you make the sufficient and accurate distinctions and make a sincere
effort to report only what you have verified to be factual you will not hear
any complaints about it. If you don’t have proof and only have a theory then
say that, and when your making broad accusations about the actions, motives
and future plans of groups or categories of people chances are your going to
have to account for that uncertainty in your statement, otherwise its an
accusation without sufficient proof and it will again cause people to
distrust your motives and good-will.

My proof is the Pentagon attack evidence which implicates the Pentagon
leadership -- Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kissinger (in the Wolfowitz group
at the Pentagon) and the ties of those men, the interests that put them
there. <http://bedoper.com/eastman> http://bedoper.com/eastman

We are solving a case where the government (which ordinarily would
investigate the crime) is itself the guilty party -- and we must work back
to find all the people/motives/methods behind the crime.

That being said, I admit to guilt in not making the distinction that when I
say that the Pentagon leadership is almost all Jewish and that the Pentagon
leadership are implicated in the false-flag attack ont he Pentagon -- that
I am not saying that ALL JEWS WERE IN ON THE PLOT. (I would think that
intelligent people would understand that without my saying it.) But it is
important that they are Jewish, because that leads us to investigate their
network and affiliations -- the powers that brought them their, their goals,
the way they carried off this complex and far-reaching operation.

Leslie

Dick Eastman

Yakima, Washington

Every man is responsible to every other man.

_____

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:12 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is
pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzithero.com> wrote:

Sorry, in the deluge of all the reasons I hear to go to war, I only
saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming that the Jewish
Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war, they never responded or were
able to share where their source of information was from, so all I had was
their personal hearsay, that they got it from someone they trusted, as
hearsay and that they themselves were as trustworthy as the person who gave
them the hearsay, so there was no need for me to question anything they
passed along. That is, they couldn’t show me any independent data to show
that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war, much less
any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing,
happens all the time and a great many ludicrous things get dumped on those
of Jewish faith that maybe the Israel government may have wanted or tried to
do. Even though I haven’t been the slightest fan of the Israeli government
since the attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn’t colored my feelings for
individuals of Jewish faith.

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own
research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
other stuff he wrote.

So, if you have any hard facts, references I can read myself, that show that
the Jewish Lobby and the Israeli government actually pushed for the US to go
to war with countries that had no connection with the phantom 911 terrorists
(like the 7 Saudi’s… that are still alive, last seen in Saudi Arabia itself)
please share them. I make up my own mind. If this was a court of law and I
was a juror, I definitely couldn’t give the death penalty on what
information I have seen.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that
could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days
later?

To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some scientific fact, you’d have to
know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with
the data we have gathered.

They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they
rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
happened.

What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn’t even compare with
what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just
reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All they got
right was that a great many people died and that a great many people were in
shock.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on there for
the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for years, that
there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and no one
knew what it was, much of it was after hours.

I use to be a building demolition junkie, I’ve seen hundreds of film clips
on this, I seen more than a few in person.

Fire didn’t take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition did.

I have friends that are pilots, they referred me to several buildings that
jet liners had hit and then I researched those thoroughly. I researched to
see how many steel structure buildings had fallen from airplane hits and the
resulting fires. ZERO. I looked to see how many steel structured buildings I
could find that had fallen due to fires, maybe there was more ‘interesting
footage’ like the three WTC towers. ZERO, no other steel structure building
has ever fallen from a fire even one induced by crashing a jet liner into
it.

Yet I have seen a great many buildings demolished and what I saw that
morning, I was sure was a demolition job. After my research, I couldn’t only
imagine how far off I was thinking of how blood thirsty those who pulled
this off were.

Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security clearance, my
daughter can’t talk about anything other than her emotions that day. If you
have ever worked a federal government job, if you’ve ever been a civilian
whose company did contracts for the Government, you’ll understand her
position and why I never pushed her for any other details.

I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview of the
Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half dozen
videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now hearsay. But
the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad
controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is there for
those who dig.

I haven’t researched the nitty gritty details that so many others have, I
have researched what I saw and heard in 4 hours that morning watching 2
different TV’s and all I can find is that it is a darker more sinister
picture than I thought that morning.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?

That is the door to the slaughter house.

Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can’t verify as truth yourself
and that is where you are headed.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I
am looking at the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World
health Organization.

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA,
and 5 men with a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is
suspect but….

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that
his superior ordered him to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes
unless given further orders.

Really, I didn't hear that.

Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed place was the control room of Norad, as his control
amounted to continually telling the operators there to let the
aircraft through, to issue to warnings to the apparent targets and
especially to not let any of our armed aircraft into the air that
might interfere.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle
> group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
looking at
> the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
Organization.
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you
> say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
men with
> a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but…. A van
full of
> C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> demolition.
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work place
> about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous
> months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully,
> separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just
> after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
ordered him
> to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
orders.
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed
> place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
continually
> telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
our armed
> aircraft into the air that might interfere.
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
to be
> present at the execution.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
the
> company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> before the attacks matters too.
>
> The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> check out the following.
> >
> > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
Jew,
> I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> >
> > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
1/3
> (conservatively) are Jewish.
> >
> > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> >
> > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > debunking these lies via this link.
> >
> > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> >
> > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
and
> power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> >
> > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
the
> truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > from that I wonder?
> >
> > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > much as you obviously think you do.
> >
> > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
rational
> and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
our
> > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
is
> to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > others.
> >
> > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> efforts.
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
those
> with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
wanted
> the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> what you can do about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
as
> you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > prove.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Leslie,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
thre
> New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
that
> to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
individual --
> >
> >
> >
> > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
pointing
> out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> >
> >
> >
> > =================
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, Al.
> >
> > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> >
> > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
Israel
> > had anything to do with it?
> >
> > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> >
> > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > is ample proof of each point.
> >
> > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> >
> > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > walk you through what I have found.
> >
> > Here is a sample:
> >
> > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> >
> > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> corresponded so long ago.
> >
> > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
I
> could only gain.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Dick Eastman
> > Yakima, Washinton
> >
> > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> by chaos theory
> > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> little butterfly who
> > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <aelewis@>
> > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> Dick Eastman
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
observed
> > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
ago
> > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
life
> > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > Jew-hating spin.
> >
> > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
Zionists,
> > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
is a
> > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > distinguished from its parent.)
> >
> > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
women
> > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > rationalization for their malady":
> >
> > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> further
> > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> which
> > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
a
> > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
to 'the
> > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> hatred to
> > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> malady.'"
> >
> > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
it.
> > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
as
> > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
cesspool,
> > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
is
> > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> >
> > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
a
> > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
generally
> > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> >
> > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
message
> > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
out
> > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
it
> > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
single
> > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
credibility
> > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
be a
> > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
that
> > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
Yes,
> > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> >
> > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
does
> > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
of
> > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
to
> > understand.
> >
> > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
wants
> > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
Personality
> > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
reality
> > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
not
> > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> >
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> >
> > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
their
> > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > four (or more) of the following:
> >
> > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
exploiting,
> > harming, or deceiving him or her
> >
> > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> >
> > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> >
> > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > remarks or events
> >
> > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > injuries, or slights
> >
> > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > counterattack
> >
> > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
Association.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> >
> > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> _____
>

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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:16:07 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Benjamin Netanahu, former PM of Israel said on Sept. 11, 2001 that the attacks were very good for very good for Israel. When people look at him with open mouths, he retracted the statement.

Do you think that Israel was harmed by having the U.S. take out all of Israel's strong Arab neighbors?

Who do you think was the main beneficiary of 9/11false-flag black-op?

How do you really seeing the plot getting started, Scott?

Why do you think that the perps were motivated by monetary profit alone?

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Peden
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is Israel?

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:10:56 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

The main beneficiary of the 9/11 false-flag black ops were those whom
control the ,Multi national mega Corporations, no matter what label you use.

From my research, it is pretty obvious that there are different groups of
Multi national Mega Corporations, all trying to control the world via
countries and they do this economically.

The extremists in this country and in Israel all appear to act to a common
stimulus response. They all appear to work towards a common cause even
though when I look at lists of names in these War R US groups, the World
Health Organizations, I see as many of not more Celtic, mostly Celtic from
the British Isles surnames than any other group of people. That makes sense
as the two nationalities that have the highest IQ’s by one survey which took
into account all of the people of a country or race, found that the Jewish
had the highest IQ, followed by the Celts, yet I know not a few people of
Jewish extraction as well as a great many people of Celtic extraction and
few of these are anything like the extremists that are in these
organizations.

Basically it comes down to the smartest of the extremists have risen to the
top of the pile, race and religion seems to make no difference. Race and
religion seems to keep us busy fighting amongst each other and our attention
off of THE PEOPLE who are causing this, trying to get us chasing after
extremist sects of religions, that apparently help create this diversion,
the Fundies in the USA for example, but no one here is jumping on them and
how they are diverting our attention.

I started some research on corporate control in the USA. A few things I
found was around the time of the Civil War, a corporation was founded in the
USA, called “The United States” the purpose of this corporation was to run
the business of the United States of America, a Country. At that point in
time Corporate America was firmly entrenched in takes the country away from
we the people. I noted comments from Jefferson about the same thing and he
and Franklin both mentioned how the lawyers and business men of their day,
the day of our founding fathers, had already circumvented what we fought so
hard for.

Then I noticed the names of the 5 corporations credited with financing the
American Revolution and that three of them withdrew monetary support when
Jefferson penned “We the People” as they thought that they were funding a
new country to be run by corporations, as corporations new best what a
country needed and it was so expensive to buy off Kings, Queens and
politicians.

Upon googling those names I found these same three corporations financed the
first French revolution and as soon as the shooting stopped, emptied the
treasury of France to pay off their debt, since it was again apparent they
weren’t going to be able to control France either.

Continuing to research these common names… Blindenberg, I think is the
spelling, started about the 1740’s to get corporations to take over or
create their own country. I stopped researching further back as I only had
that one name and no one earlier was associated with him or his corporate
entity, but the names he had as his co-horts, just intertwine all the way to
today’s history. Rockefellers, Rothschild’s, all the populate names go back
to the first 80 or so years after Blindenberg started these groups, and
often they were a few to half a dozen satellite groups being controlled by a
few who where in a smaller higher up group, being controlled at times by
only three men. The common purpose? To rule the world economically, as they
were the smartest people and only they knew how to do it.

These people consume all the resources they can, turn them into liquid
assets and move them around. The people of this planet are some of those
resources, to use and discard as how ever benefits their bottom line.

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:16 AM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fw: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Benjamin Netanahu, former PM of Israel said on Sept. 11, 2001 that the
attacks were very good for very good for Israel. When people look at him
with open mouths, he retracted the statement.

Do you think that Israel was harmed by having the U.S. take out all of
Israel's strong Arab neighbors?

Who do you think was the main beneficiary of 9/11false-flag black-op?

How do you really seeing the plot getting started, Scott?

Why do you think that the perps were motivated by monetary profit alone?

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Peden <mailto:scotpeden@cruzio.com>
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com <mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group " 911TruthAction
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Thats a fucking CROCK OF SHIT! I am a ''PROTESTANT"!

mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com> wrote: second that !!

--- amy dalzell <amydalzell@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Enough people! This isn't about being Jewish. It's
> about global corporate fascism, which has a
> distinctively Protestant complexion.
>
> Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote: "as
> if any self respecting individual is going to hide
> the fact they are Jewish"
>
> I personally know three otherwise self-respecting
> people who have tried to hide the fact that they are
> Jewish, and this is out of a total of about 6 or 8
> Jews that I know.
>
> Leslie Schwartz <lhs_emf@pacbell.net> wrote:
> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:*
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> I have seen a number of messages on this message
> board NOT making that distinction, and in fact
> lumping together, Jews, Zionists, Neocons, mossad,
> Judaism, Israelis, Ashkenazi Jews, the Rothschild’s,
> the illuminati, the Rockefellers, the Warburg’s,
> PNAC, the CFR, the etc. and etc., and mentioning
> specific high profile people who may fall within one
> or more of those categories. I also recall some
> hater using the term “crypto-Jews” on this message
> board as if any self respecting individual is going
> to hide the fact they are Jewish becomes THAT writer
> hates Jews. This is delusional and it is offensive.
>
> When necessary and accurate distinctions are not
> made and a message goes out which obviously has some
> emotion, even anger over the events associated with
> 9/11/01 (emotion which is otherwise understandable)
> it is an ugly thing to read, its racist, its
> UN-AMERICAN and I personally do not think it helps
> anyone to understand these events or how we can
> constructively respond to the overall situation.
>
> If you want to be taken seriously and treated with
> respect for your research and comments, you should
> know that is not going to be the response when you
> basically write everything bad that happens in this
> world is one kind of flavor of the month “Jewish
> conspiracy” by one name or another.
>
> If you make the sufficient and accurate
> distinctions and make a sincere effort to report
> only what you have verified to be factual you will
> not hear any complaints about it. If you don’t have
> proof and only have a theory then say that, and when
> your making broad accusations about the actions,
> motives and future plans of groups or categories of
> people chances are your going to have to account for
> that uncertainty in your statement, otherwise its an
> accusation without sufficient proof and it will
> again cause people to distrust your motives and
> good-will.
>
> Leslie
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Kevin Hammond
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:12 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
>
> Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction
> between Zionism and Judaism is pointed out. One is
> NOT the other.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
> Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzithero.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, in the deluge of all the
> reasons I hear to go to war, I only saw a couple of
> e-mails from a few certain people claiming that the
> Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war,
> they never responded or were able to share where
> their source of information was from, so all I had
> was their personal hearsay, that they got it from
> someone they trusted, as hearsay and that they
> themselves were as trustworthy as the person who
> gave them the hearsay, so there was no need for me
> to question anything they passed along. That is,
> they couldn’t show me any independent data to show
> that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US
> to go to war, much less any comments for this, in
> print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing,
> happens all the time and a great many ludicrous
> things get dumped on those of Jewish faith that
> maybe the Israel government may have wanted or tried
> to do. Even though I haven’t been the slightest fan
> of the Israeli government since the
> attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn’t colored my
> feelings for individuals of Jewish faith.
>
>
>
> When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them,
> links where I can do my own research, not stuff like
> the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
> other stuff he wrote.
>
>
>
> So, if you have any hard facts, references I can
> read myself, that show that the Jewish Lobby and the
> Israeli government actually pushed for the US to go
> to war with countries that had no connection with
> the phantom 911 terrorists (like the 7 Saudi’s… that
> are still alive, last seen in Saudi Arabia itself)
> please share them. I make up my own mind. If this
> was a court of law and I was a juror, I definitely
> couldn’t give the death penalty on what information
> I have seen.
>
>
>
> -
>
> A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers,
> to bring them down as
> controlled demolition.
>
> I don't understand that.
>
>
>
> You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets
> say C-4 since it is compact and easy to transport. A
> van load of it wouldn’t have been enough to take
> down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way
> the building could have been rigged over night.
> Traditional demolition experts figured weeks in a
> rush job, more likely months.
>
> So, How it was used, was what was found in their
> van of a composition that could have made steel turn
> molten and remain in a liquid form for days later?
>
> To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some
> scientific fact, you’d have to know if what they
> had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in
> with the data we have gathered.
>
>
>
> As far as Faux News, I have no idea if they were
> one of the three stations I watched most that
> morning, from about 8 minutes after the first plane
> hit, I watched live newscasts, but Faux News, they
> are professional revisionist story tellers, their
> news is to get their advertisers money, not to tell
> the truth, in my personal opinion, they are trying
> to take the national Enquirer’s business away. Their
> credibility ain’t worth the airwaves they broadcast
> over.
>
> They are my local station, I know first hand
> what they report and what they rewrite. They turn
> peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
> happened.
>
> What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time)
> didn’t even compare with what I saw that morning
> between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just
> reported on something in a book of Fiction and
> called it truth. All they got right was that a great
> many people died and that a great many people were
> in shock.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the
> destruction of their work
> place (One of the Towers) about construction work
> that had gone on there for the three
> previous months, but please, share your data, and
> give your theories,
> hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from
> speculation.
>
> I don't understand that either
>
=== message truncated ===

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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION

tHANKS BRO.

Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote: I just read the history of the Rothchilds at your site, Kev -- excellent article.

Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com> wrote: i have been negligent to welcome all of the new members that have joined over the last month. Welcome to the group! And checkout my website when you get a chance and watch some of my shows! www.fightthenwo.org

Kevin

"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

I thionk that this needs to cease and dissist for a while, because it seems to be tearing us apart, which is exactly what the Illuminati want. I hope that you dont think that I was attacking you personLLY Scott. Just very frustrated.

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzio.com> wrote:

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} Uhhh… what did I say that gave that impression?

By the time I see this coming from you, I can no longer find the lies and other things that were used to separate one persons comments from another’s.

Never mind, I’ll drop it. I’m not getting anywhere and now you think I am doing 180 of what I have said. After all I posted, you get that I am calling Zionism Judaism, when I am pointing out the differences.

Then the later post where you stated this:

“OH for CRYIN OUT LOUD! Do I have to spell it OUT?! Do you forget the balfour declaration and the Rothschilds?! C'MON! But like I said the Zionists are only a part of it. Just wait and see who will end up wanting to be the big peacemaker for the mideast and rule from Jerusalem! wanna guess?! remember the Crusades? Bush called the whore on terror a ""CRUSADE""! Think it was a coincedence? I am tellin you. keep a watchful eye on ROME! two successful popes have now called for a New World Order! also look into the p2 masonic lodge and its connection to the vatican and the cia. PLEASE!”

I can’t figure out what it is that you are attacking me for. Your posts seem to have noting to do with what I stated except to assume I have information you have studied in depth.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:12 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzithero.com> wrote:
Sorry, in the deluge of all the reasons I hear to go to war, I only saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming that the Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war, they never responded or were able to share where their source of information was from, so all I had was their personal hearsay, that they got it from someone they trusted, as hearsay and that they themselves were as trustworthy as the person who gave them the hearsay, so there was no need for me to question anything they passed along. That is, they couldn’t show me any independent data to show that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war, much less any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing, happens all the time and a great many ludicrous things get dumped on those of Jewish faith that maybe the Israel government may have wanted or tried to do. Even though I haven’t been the slightest fan of the Israeli government since the
attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn’t colored my feelings for individuals of Jewish faith.

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to other stuff he wrote.

So, if you have any hard facts, references I can read myself, that show that the Jewish Lobby and the Israeli government actually pushed for the US to go to war with countries that had no connection with the phantom 911 terrorists (like the 7 Saudi’s… that are still alive, last seen in Saudi Arabia itself) please share them. I make up my own mind. If this was a court of law and I was a juror, I definitely couldn’t give the death penalty on what information I have seen.

-
A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets say C-4 since it is compact and easy to transport. A van load of it wouldn’t have been enough to take down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way the building could have been rigged over night. Traditional demolition experts figured weeks in a rush job, more likely months.
So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days later?
To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some scientific fact, you’d have to know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with the data we have gathered.

As far as Faux News, I have no idea if they were one of the three stations I watched most that morning, from about 8 minutes after the first plane hit, I watched live newscasts, but Faux News, they are professional revisionist story tellers, their news is to get their advertisers money, not to tell the truth, in my personal opinion, they are trying to take the national Enquirer’s business away. Their credibility ain’t worth the airwaves they broadcast over.
They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever happened.
What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn’t even compare with what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All they got right was that a great many people died and that a great many people were in shock.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for years, that there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and no one knew what it was, much of it was after hours.
I use to be a building demolition junkie, I’ve seen hundreds of film clips on this, I seen more than a few in person.
Fire didn’t take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition did.

I have friends that are pilots, they referred me to several buildings that jet liners had hit and then I researched those thoroughly. I researched to see how many steel structure buildings had fallen from airplane hits and the resulting fires. ZERO. I looked to see how many steel structured buildings I could find that had fallen due to fires, maybe there was more ‘interesting footage’ like the three WTC towers. ZERO, no other steel structure building has ever fallen from a fire even one induced by crashing a jet liner into it.

Yet I have seen a great many buildings demolished and what I saw that morning, I was sure was a demolition job. After my research, I couldn’t only imagine how far off I was thinking of how blood thirsty those who pulled this off were.

I and my X wife read everything we could on the WTC towers after our daughter started work there, about 1998, we both were independently aware that in the original articles of impeachment for Clinton one of the articles was that a private plane had made it into NYC airspace, 12.5 minutes or something like that, and that was the only instance of the 10 minute response time having been violated in 12 years, before that it was a 12 minute response time, until 9/11/01 when it was closer to 1 hour and 43 minutes.
Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security clearance, my daughter can’t talk about anything other than her emotions that day. If you have ever worked a federal government job, if you’ve ever been a civilian whose company did contracts for the Government, you’ll understand her position and why I never pushed her for any other details.

We know Cheney ordered the Colonel at Norad to stand down. We know that with an inter office memo that Bush transferred the power that congress had given to the president and the President only, to his Vice President, Dick Cheney. We now know that Cheney was in charge of Norad that morning. Of course no one needed to get GW to safety, it was an inside job. That is data, those are things that can be found again and again in internet searches, facts that can be verified, many articles written about them plus Cheney direction Norad is in the 911 Commission report. They fucking aren’t afraid of those that do research, they control all the information superhighway except the internet and who knows if we have days or years left there.
I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview of the Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half dozen videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now hearsay. But the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is there for those who dig.

I haven’t researched the nitty gritty details that so many others have, I have researched what I saw and heard in 4 hours that morning watching 2 different TV’s and all I can find is that it is a darker more sinister picture than I thought that morning.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?
That is the door to the slaughter house.
Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can’t verify as truth yourself and that is where you are headed.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:54:10 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: Frosty Wooldridge: Globalism: You won't like it.

From: "Richard Pierce" <phobicflyonthewall@yahoo.com>

April 13, 2006

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty144.htm

GLOBALISM: YOU WON'T LIKE IT!

By Frosty Wooldridge

When you look at globalists like Senator Kerry, Condi Rice, Vice President Cheney, Senator Frist, President Bush and others in our nation's capitol, you're looking at men and women performing a frightening experiment on the United States of America. You're also looking at men and women who have failed to stand up for the U.S. Constitution.

They've failed their oath of office. They contrived us into an un-winnable war; created a horrific national debt; opened our borders to unending illegal immigration; outsourced, insourced and offshored jobs stolen from our middle class-and finally, they abet lawlessness of 20 million illegal aliens-instead of preserving our rights as American citizens. These leaders support globalism. Their goal is to bring this country into line with the poverty and corruption of Third World countries like Mexico. A reader said, "You Americans have been living an artificially high standard of living for far too long; its time you drop down to the poverty levels of the Third World. Massive immigration will do that to you."

With one million legal immigrants pouring into our nation from Third World countries annually and over three million illegal aliens crossing America's borders each year-folks, that man must be laughing his head off at our sinking into poverty like millions in the Third World.

Globalization, or globalism, means centralization operating on a global scale - that is to say, centralization aiming at global dictatorship, a kind of ultimate expansion of tyranny. It follows that everything you see in the realm of politics, economics, human rights, and especially in all things seen as social engineering, reflect the endeavors of centralization. This will not change course, nor will it self-destruct! No! It needs to be opposed! An interview with Mel Fowler concerning the debilitating aspects of America's dabbling in globalism may provoke an outcry, and later, fear of the future. "I think most Americans have some idea of what "tyranny" means," Fowler said. "It's a quaint word we haven't heard people use for quite some time. Because things that have been happening to us in our United States of America of late, the word tyranny is coming back into use.

"Before our very eyes, the United States has been transformed from a settled, relatively good-natured, comfortable country into an imperialist, war-making state. The whole world is mad at the United States!

Fowler continued, "When I was a child, we were poor. Even seemingly solid businesses struggled to stay alive. We worried about unemployment, the depression and the approaching war (WWII) yet, in some way that's hard to explain, we were happy. Or perhaps I should say we had faith that the underlying supports were still in place. We were poor, and we didn't have anything. We are still poor, but now most of us have everything we might want, and then some - most of it acquired by going into debt.

"Now we have globalism. It is an extension, to include the entire planet, of everything the British Empire aimed at. More than two centuries ago, Americans fought to free themselves from British Imperialism. Globalism, the current form taken by the lusts for empire is guaranteed tyranny for us all, except for the globalist elites. It is infinitely authoritarian in its mind set. It would seem that the globalist center of power will be seated at such a distance that there will be no concern or need for democracy, constitutionalism, or legal protections for common people, whose numbers are to be so drastically reduced." The front line of the conflict we have with globalism is its very opposite, NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY.

"Whereas globalism seeks to centralize authority, power and wealth in the hands of its elite," Fowler said. "The interests of common people are served, not by centralization of those items, but by the opposite of centralization: by a distributive scheme regarding authority, power and wealth. National sovereignty is the only thing you have that protects those things that you most treasure. Without it, you have nothing. Providing you are willing to join forces with others like you, with the retention of national sovereignty, you might just have a fighting chance. If we lose our national sovereignty, hence our freedom and all else we care about, we will never get it back.

"The overlords of globalism appear now to be attempting to sprint to their goal of world dictatorship, and we now have some other things to worry us, not the least of which is the destructive power of several million illegal aliens pouring into our country every year.

"We have completely lost control of the political life of this country. The two-party system works splendidly for the globalists who captured our country some time ago. Those who see that the United States is in serious trouble are dismayed by the appearance that the great majority of our citizenry are not aware of it. They go on as if life is sweet and getting sweeter.

"As everyone knows, the two-party political system we have is rotten to the core. The public perception is that there are two ways to waste your vote: (1) vote the ticket of one of the major parties or (2) vote otherwise (i.e., third party or write in). "Our legislative bodies are no longer responsive to the citizens and their needs, members of Congress and the Senate now answerable only to special interests represented by lobbying organizations such as AIPAC, the sources of wealth they depend on for necessary re-election money. "Our manufacturing facilities and manufacturing jobs with them have been moved overseas. We are now dependent on China to produce and sell us what we need.

"As a result of profligate spending on wars and the maintenance of the huge military forces thought to be necessary for the Imperial power our government in its dream-like condition believes it to be, the United States now has the greatest burden of debt in its history, both public and private, accumulated during the period in which we acquired the greatest number of new millionaires and billionaires ever to grace our land, while the U.S. economy now perches on the precipice of collapse and bankruptcy, Alan Greenspan having performed magnificently for Wall Street.

"Our Constitution, laws and freedoms, are being trashed piecemeal by people who appear to place no value on those freedoms which the Constitution of the United States guarantees to its citizens, such people coming to America from various dictatorial regimes where they never acquired a respect for our love of freedom.
"The United States and its national sovereignty, we are told, are soon to become a thing of the past, the territory it now occupies to become part of a "region" in the globalist scheme consisting of Canada and Mexico with the former United States in between.

"We find that we have been substantially lied to about the purposes of environmental and land preservation measures, most of which we now know are tied into globalist endeavors under the sponsorship of the UN, to evict the public from most of the land we Americans thought of in the past as belonging to the people of our country for their use and enjoyment.

"Farmers who wish to continue to be farmers will not be allowed to produce their own seed for crops of subsequent years, but will have to apply to Monsanto or other corporate monstrosity for purchase of genetically modified seeds, from which only next year's crop may be grown.

"Law enforcement in The United States is rapidly being consolidated under the federal government and The Department of Homeland Security with its political biases, its inattention to aliens coming into the country, its taste for annoying ordinary American citizens with inappropriate personal searches at airports, its preemption of responsibility for local police departments and County Sheriffs, and other outrages."

Millions of illegal aliens marching in our streets in promotion of anarchy in the past two weeks without fear of our president manifesting his oath of office and our impotent Congress not standing for the rule of law--exhibit the worst behavior of our leaders. It also shows you that the reader was correct, "You Americans have been living an artificially high standard of living; it's time for you to drop down to the poverty levels of the rest of the Third World. Immigration will do that to you." Globalism-you won't like it because it will make America country like their countries. The American Dream dies with globalism.

---------------------------------
Frosty Wooldridge possesses a unique view of the world, cultures and families in that he has bicycled around the globe 100,000 miles, on six continents in the past 26 years.
He has written hundreds of articles (regularly) for 17 national and 2 international magazines. He has had hundreds of editorials published in top national newspapers including the Rocky Mountain News, Denver Post, Albany Herald and Christian Science Monitor.
His first book, "HANDBOOK FOR TOURING BICYCLISTS" by Falcon Press is available nationwide. His second book "STRIKE THREE! TAKE YOUR BASE" by the Brookfield Reader published in January 2002. His bicycle books include "BICYCLING AROUND THE WORLD."
His latest book. 'IMMIGRATION'S UNARMED INVASION-DEADLY CONSEQUENCES.'
Frosty Wooldridge has guest lectured at Cornell University, teaching creative writing workshops, magazine writing at Michigan State University, and has presented environmental science lectures at the University of Colorado, University of Denver and Regis University. He also lectures on "Religion and Ethics" at Front Range College in Colorado.
Website: www.FrostyWooldridge.com

E:Mail: frostyw@juno.com

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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Welcome 2 the World of Synthetic Terror:the so-called terror attacks of Sept 11, 2001 were faked

Meno Slither <meno_slither@yahoo.com> wrote: To: "NewWorldOrderWhistleBlowers3@yahoogroups.com" <NewWorldOrderWhistleBlowers3@yahoogroups.com>,
"WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED@yahoogroups.com" <WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED@yahoogroups.com>
From: Meno Slither <meno_slither@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Welcome 2 the World of Synthetic Terror:the so-called terror attacks of Sept 11, 2001 were faked

The so-called terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were faked

Welcome to the World of Synthetic Terror

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spine2.htm
April 5th, 2006 (Physics911.net) -

The evidence is in, the analyses have been made, and conclusions have been drawn by scientists, engineers and other experts: the so-called terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were faked. There is, moreover, independent evidence from multiple and credible sources that Al Qaeda is the creation of western spy agencies.

If you have any questions concerning these assertions, visit http://www.physics911.net.
The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven has formed around this website. The Panel consists of over thirty experts in the fields of science, engineering, architecture, intelligence, the military, medicine, Islamic studies and other disciplines. The members are willing to stand up and be counted, even the ones with the highest public profiles. You will find them on the members list, accessible from the button near the top of the page.

Of course, the Physics 911 website is hardly alone in cyberspace. There are now literally hundreds of skeptical websites on the internet (with only a handful of dissenting sites defending the official story). There are other working groups with websites, as well, not to mention thousands of people doing their own inquiries into 911 and millions of people skeptical of the official story (including 48% of New Yorkers, according to a Zogby poll taken in 2005).

We are now living in what has been called the Age of Synthetic Terror. In contrast to the corporate media line, "terrorism" is the brainchild and product of western intelligence agencies. Its purpose is to foment domestic anger at Muslims in order to justify a program of a) invasion of sovereign nations, b) seizure of their oil resources, c) mass murder designed to look like sectarian violence, d) establishing permanent military bases and e) the installation of puppet governments in the countries so affected.
It follows that the mass murder of 9/11, blamed on Arab/Muslim patsies, was but the opening scene of a drama that would have many acts, with hundreds of thousands of murders to follow.

There is one and only one way to bring this program of synthetic terror to an end. The knowledge that we have acquired must be made public and made public soon. The next massive military operation may be against Iran. Such an attack would require a triggering episode in which a handful of Muslims, Iranian this time, would be blamed for the bombing of a western target, possibly involving a nuclear device, given the (pretended) concern over Iran's nuclear program. (Think Iraq. Think WMDs.)

How long will it take members of the corporate media to break free with this story? Their colleagues may be unaware that the country of Venezuela has undertaken an international inquiry into 9/11. They may be unaware that Charlie Sheen's allegations are but the tip of an iceberg or unaware of the deception in Iraq or that the Osama tapes are faked.

A. K. Dewdney

Coordinator Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven

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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:18:56 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby" -=- Joseph Massad joins Chomsky in defending The Lobby - Response from Blankfort

From: "Peter Myers" <myers@cyberone.com.au>

April 12, 2006

(1) Joseph Massad joins Chomsky in defending The Lobby - Response from Blankfort
(2) U.S. officials looking to Israel for technology to fight terrorism
(3) Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby" - Jim Lobe

(1) Joseph Massad joins Chomsky in defending The Lobby - Response from Blankfort

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:49:11 -0700 From: Jeff Blankfort
<jblankfort@earthlink.net>

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr06/Blankfort11.htm

Yes, Blame the Lobby A Response to Prof. Joseph Massad by Jeff Blankfort
www.dissidentvoice.org April 11, 2006

The appearance last month of a critical article on the "Israel Lobby and US
Foreign Policy" in the London Review of Books by Professors John Mearsheimer of
the University of Chicago and Steven Walt, Academic Dean of the Kennedy Center
at Harvard University, two nationally known academic figures with impeccable
credentials, propelled into the mainstream an issue that had long been confined
to the margins, not only by the efforts of the lobby, itself, but by those on
the Left who prefer to view US foreign policy as being determined by corporate
elites who are largely unaffected by the agenda of what Noam Chomsky, the
foremost proponent of this theory, has described as another "ethnic lobby."

That the authors squarely placed the blame for US policy in the Middle East and
for the war in Iraq on the influence of the Israel Lobby elicited the
predictable reactions from both camps. The attack dogs of the lobby, led by Alan
Dershowitz and CAMERA, smeared the article -- an abbreviated version of a onger
Harvard monograph -- as an updated version of the "Protocols of the Elders of
Zion," based on sources from "Neo-Nazi" web sites and, of course,
"anti-Semitic."

>From the left, Prof. Chomsky was not long in providing a subtle dismissal of the
paper on ZNet and on Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now! After a perfunctory
sentence praising the two professors for having raised the issue, he writes, "we
still have to ask how convincing their thesis is. Not very, in my opinion." His
comments, predictably, were picked up and quoted approvingly in the Jewish and
mainstream press. What was surprising to this writer, however, was that the very
first attack from the Left came from someone who had himself been victimized by
the lobby, Prof. Joseph Massad, of Columbia University.

Three years ago, Massad was the target of The David Project, a relatively new
entrant to the lobby's ranks, which conducted a witch hunt against him based on
statements he allegedly made to Jewish students and for allegedly creating an
uncomfortable atmosphere in his classroom for Jewish students, none of which
could be substantiated.

Massad's article, "Blaming the Lobby," first appeared in the March 23-29 issue
of Al-Ahram, the English-language Egyptian weekly, and was subsequently posted
on CounterPunch. What was disturbing was not only Massad's rush to the lobby's
defense, but that he failed to respond to the points raised by Mearsheimer and
Walt and provided, instead, what could best be described as a legal brief for
the Chomsky position. For those unfamiliar with the subject and details of the
Mearsheimer-Walt paper, it was, no doubt, very convincing.

It was for this reason that, rather than write a general response, I decided to
examine and refute his article, point by point.

Joseph Massad: "In the last 25 years, many Palestinians and other Arabs, in the
United States and in the Arab world, have been so awed by the power of the US
pro-Israel lobby that any study, book, or journalistic article that exposes the
inner workings, the substantial influence, and the financial and political power
of this lobby have been greeted with ecstatic sighs of relief that Americans
finally can see the "truth" and the "error" of their ways.

Jeff Blankfort: There have, in fact, been very few books or articles in either
the mainstream or alternative media that have attempted to expose the inner
workings of the Israel lobby and when they have appeared they have largely been
ignored by the US Left. When they have been mentioned, it has been largely to
refute them. Moreover, the issue is never on the agenda in pro-Palestinian
conferences or mentioned at any of the anti-war rallies that call for an end to
Israeli occupation.

JM: The underlying argument has been simple and has been told time and again by
Washington's regime allies in the Arab world, pro-US liberal and Arab
intellectuals, conservative and liberal US intellectuals and former politicians,
and even leftist Arab and American activists who support alestinian rights,
namely, that absent the pro- Israel lobby, America would at worst no longer
contribute to the oppression of Arabs and alestinians and at best it would be
the Arabs' and the Palestinians' best ally and friend.

JB: Here Massad disingenuously conflates Washington's corrupt allies in the Arab
world with those of who have made serious, factual criticisms of the role that
the Israel Lobby has played in influencing America's Middle East policies. None
of the latter have advanced the notion that without the lobby, America might, at
best, be the "the Arabs' and the Palestinians' best ally and friend." While this
might be the position held by a few former members of the Foreign Service, it
has never been advanced by the lobby's Left critics. They have no illusions
about the evils of US imperialism that have and will continue to exist,
irrespective of the lobby, although the lobby has been useful in pushing the US
political agenda elsewhere.

JM: What makes this argument persuasive and effective to Arabs? Indeed, why are
its claims constantly brandished by Washington's Arab friends to Arab and
American audiences as a persuasive argument? I contend that the attraction of
this argument is that it exonerates the United States' overnment from all the
responsibility and guilt that it deserves for its policies in the Arab world and
gives false hope to many Arabs and alestinians who wish America would be on
their side instead of on the side of their enemies.

JB: Again, Massad creates a straw man by falling back on Washington's Arab
friends to set the basis for discrediting Mearsheimer and Walt. There are those,
including this writer, who are both long time opponents of US imperial policies,
in general, and serious critics of the Israel Lobby and who in no manner
exonerate the US from the responsibility for its actions. The latter seem
non-existent in Massad's viewpoint.

JM: Let me start with the premise of the argument, namely its effect of shifting
the blame for US policies from the United States onto Israel and its US lobby.
According to this logic, it is not the United States that should be held
directly responsible for all its imperial policies in the Arab world and the
Middle East at large since World War II, rather it is Israel and its lobby who
have pushed it to launch policies that are detrimental to its own national
interest and are only beneficial to Israel.

JB: The authors are not absolving the US of its own responsibilities but trying
to explain how US Middle East policies came to be formed. They are ot saying
that without the interference of Israel and the Israel Lobby that the US would
not pursue its imperial interest in the Arab world, but that it would do so
without generating the problems that US support for Israel has engendered and
which have been so costly in lives and money.

JM: Establishing and supporting Arab and other Middle East dictatorships, arming
and training their militaries, setting up their secret police pparatuses and
training them in effective torture methods and counter-insurgency to be used
against their own citizens should be blamed, according to the logic of these
studies, on Israel and its US lobby.

JB: Again, Massad is creating a straw man. The authors are not blaming the
entirety of US policies on either Israel or its lobby, but dealing with specific
issues in which US support for Israel has had negative effects on the region and
US relations in the region.

JM: Blocking all international and UN support for Palestinian rights, arming and
financing Israel in its war against a civilian population, protecting srael from
the wrath of the international community should also be blamed not on the United
States, the studies insist, but on Israel and its lobby.

JB: The authors are essentially correct. Every US president since Richard Nixon,
with the Rogers Plan in 1969, has made an effort to get Israel to withdraw from
the territories it occupied in 1967, not out of any love for the Palestinians,
but because Israel's continuing occupation of those ands, from the Sinai to the
Golan Heights, was creating unnecessary problems in a region where maintaining
stability of the regions' oil esources was and remains a necessity. Every one of
those plans was undermined by the lobby.

In 1975, Gerald Ford, upset because Israel was refusing to disengage from areas
it had taken in the Sinai during the 1973 war, halted aid to Israel and publicly
let it be known that he was going to make a major speech that would call for a
downsizing of US-Israel relations and demanding that Israel to return to its
1967 borders. Within three weeks, AIPAC presented Ford with a letter signed by
76 senators, from liberal Democrats to extreme right wing Republicans, warning
him not to take any steps that would jeopardize Israel's security. Ford did not
make the speech.

His successor, Jimmy Carter, was repeatedly in conflict with both Israel and the
lobby. Neither anted the Camp David treaty but Carter doggedly pushed it
through, although it required a multi-billion dollar bribe to get Begin's
ignature. In 1978, before the treaty went into effect, Begin invaded Lebanon,
hoping, some speculated, that Egypt would react and the treaty ould be nullified
since Israel did not want to give up the Sinai. Carter further angered Israel
and the lobby by demanding that Begin withdraw sraeli troops from Lebanon three
months later.

When he told Begin, publicly, to halt settlement building, the Israeli prime
minister responded by announcing the start of 10 new settlements while the lobby
criticized Carter for bringing up the subject. When UN Ambassador Andrew Young
violated an Israeli demand and a lobby-enforced rule that prohibited US
officials from meeting with the PLO, (much like the lobby imposed rule about US
officials meeting with Hamas officials today), he was forced to resign. When
Carter, like Ford, was considering giving a televised speech in 1979 in which he
planned to outline the divergence of interests between the US and Israel and
denounce Israeli intransigence on the Palestinian issue, he was warned by the
lobby, as one Jewish leader put it, that he would be the first president to
"risk opening the gates of anti-Semitism in America." Carter decided not to give
the speech.

Massad raises the issue of UN votes. There was an exception to all those US
vetoes and it came during the Carter administration. In March 1980, Young's
successor, Donald McHenry, also an African-American, voted to censure Israel for
its ettlement policy, including Jerusalem. The lobby was outraged and Carter was
forced to apologize. The last straw for the lobby was when Carter alled for an
international conference in Geneva to settle the Israel-Palestine question that
would include the Soviet Union. It didn't matter that he was forced to apologize
for that, too. In 1980, he received 48% of the Jewish vote, the poorest showing
of any Democrat since they began counting such things.

When Israel invaded Lebanon in June 1982, both houses of Congress roared their
approval, it eing, after all, an election year. When the reports of the siege of
Beirut were becoming too much to ignore, Reagan asked Sharon to call a alt.
Sharon's response was to bomb the city at 2:42 and 3:38 the next afternoon,
those hours, coincidentally, being the numbers of the two UN esolutions calling
on Israel to withdraw from the Occupied Territories. When Reagan, like Carter,
also publicly called on Begin to halt settlement building, the Israeli prime
minister announced the building of new settlements and sent the president a
"Dear Ronnie," letter letting him know who was making those decisions.

In Reagan's second term, he, too, tried to resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict
with what ame to be known as the Shultz Plan, named after his Secretary of
State, George Shultz. It called for an international conference to resolve the
sraeli-Palestinian issue. Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, who had
replaced Begin, was having none of it. One cartoon of the day depicted hamir
sitting in a chair, cutting up pieces of paper while Reagan and Shultz looked
on. "How cute," said Reagan, "he's cutting up paper dolls." "Those aren't paper
dolls," responded Shultz. "That's our peace plan." Another showed Reagan and
Shamir sitting in armchairs across from one nother with Shamir holding a smoking
gun in his hand while a dove falls from the sky. Reagan says, "You didn't have
to do that." Shamir's ntransigence finally provoked 30 senators, including some
of Israel's biggest supporters, into sending him a letter asking him to be more
cooperative. They were hardly prepared for the firestorm from the lobby that
followed that sent each of them stumbling to apologize. The Shultz Plan was
effectively dead.

When George H. W. Bush succeeded Reagan, he made it clear that he wanted a halt
to the settlements and for Israel to get out of the OT, as well. He arranged for
the Madrid Peace Conference over the objections of the obstinate Shamir, making
concessions as to the composition of the Palestinian delegation to appease both
Israel and the lobby. Was this conference, like the one alled for by Carter,
like the one planned by Reagan just a charade? Before the conference took place,
Shamir asked the US for $10 billion in oan guarantees. Bush made compliance with
that request contingent on Israel agreeing to halt all settlement building, its
agreement not to settle any Russian immigrants in the West Bank, and to wait 120
days, to see if the first two requests had been complied with. An enraged Shamir
decided to go over his head to the lobby-controlled Congress.

After receiving a letter signed by 242 members of Congress urging the swift
passage of the loan guarantees, Bush realized that the Lobby had enough votes to
override his threatened veto of the request. This led him to take the
unprecedented step of calling a national press conference on the day when an
estimated thousand Jewish lobbyists were on Capitol Hill pushing for a swift
passage of Israel's request. In the press conference, Bush denounced the
arrogance of the lobby and told the American people how much aid each Israeli
man, woman and child was getting from the US Treasury. The polls the next day
howed that 85% of the American public was with him and a month and a half later
only 44% of the public supported giving any aid to Israel at all hile over 70%
supported giving aid to the former Soviet Union.

AIPAC, in the face of Bush's attack, pulled back, but then launched a steady
attack against him which began to be reflected in the US media where even old
friends like the NY Times columnist William Safire would eventually desert him
for Bill Clinton. Under tremendous pressure and with the election approaching,
Bush finally consented to the loan guarantees, but it was too late. The Lobby
blamed him for Shamir having been defeated by Rabin and his goose was cooked.

JM: Additionally, and in line with this logic, controlling Arab economies and
finances, dominating key investments in the Middle East, and imposing tructural
adjustment policies by the IMF and the World Bank which impoverish the Arab
peoples should also be blamed on Israel, and not the nited States.

JB: It would be curious to know what Arab economies the US actually controls.
Massad doesn't say. He is again being disingenuous, however, refusing to refute
what Mearsheimer and Walt actually wrote, but accusing them of making
allegations that have little or nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine issue or
the Iraq war. It is no secret, however, that pro-Israel Jewish neocons have been
heavily involved in creating the tructural adjustment policies of the World Bank
and the IMF. Indeed, Paul Wolfowitz, one of the architects of the Gulf War, is
now the head of the World Bank.

JM: Finally, starving and then invading Iraq, threatening to invade Syria,
raiding and then sanctioning Libya and Iran, besieging the Palestinians and
their leaders must also be blamed on the Israeli lobby and not the US
government.

JB: One must ask, where has Prof. Massad been? While it was not well known, but
no secret, that the Lobby played a key role in getting the votes for the first
Gulf War, the reporting of which resulted in the firing of the Washington Jewish
Week's Larry Cohler at the behest of AIPAC nductee Steve Rosen, the
orchestration of the current war by a handful of Jewish Likud-connected neocons
with the support of the Israel Lobby was idely reported in the mainstream press.
If there was a question as to who was the chief architect, it was a choice
between Richard Perle, Paul olfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Scooter Libby.

Massad must certainly be familiar with the "Clean Break" paper that Perle,
Feith, and Meyrav Wurmser, wrote for Netanyahu in 1996, calling for the
overthrow of Iraq, Syria and Iran, which Mearsheimer and Walt mention. Is he not
also amiliar with the "Project for a New American Century," another document
drawn up by pro-Israel Jewish neocons? Not familiar with the Office of pecial
Plans, set up by Feith and run by another Jewish neocon, Abe Shulsky, which was
directed to provide the phony intelligence that would justify the invasion when
the CIA staff was not prepared to do it. Is he not familiar with the admission
by Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9-11 commission, who admitted that
the war in Iraq was for "the security of Israel": but that would have been a
"hard sell" to the American people? And, as for implementing and maintaining the
sanctions, the advocacy of the lobby was equally evident.

JM: Indeed, over the years, many pro-US Arab dictators let it leak officially
and unofficially that their US diplomat friends have told them time and again
how much they and "America" support the Arab world and the Palestinians were it
not for the influence of the pro-Israel lobby (sometimes identified by the
American diplomats in more explicit "ethnic" terms).

JB: Those diplomats probably telling the truth as they saw it as statements many
have made, after leaving the Foreign Service, attest. As far as using ethnic
terms, in Israel they refer to it as "the Jewish Lobby." Is that what he means?
Does that imply if a non-Jew uses the term it is anti-Semitic?"

JM: While many of the studies of the pro-Israel lobby are sound and full of
awe-inspiring well-documented details about the formidable power commanded by
groups like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and its allies,
the problem with most of them is what remains unarticulated. For example, when
and in what context has the United States government ever supported national
liberation in the Third World? The record of the United States is one of being
the implacable enemy of all Third World national liberation groups, including
European ones, from Greece to Latin America to Africa and Asia, except in the
celebrated cases of the Afghan undamentalists' war against the USSR and
supporting apartheid South Africa's main terrorist allies in Angola and
Mozambique (UNITA and RENAMO) against their respective anti-colonial national
governments. Why then would the US support national liberation in the Arab world
absent the pro-Israel lobby is something these studies never explain.

JB: Yet another straw man. It is not a question of supporting a national
liberation struggle but determining overall policy for the region, in eneral. It
should have been clear that a Palestinian mini-state run by Yasser Arafat or any
of his cronies would have been no threat to the US at all, in fact, it would
have been useful since its reactionary policies would have had a crushing effect
not only on the Palestinians themselves, but on those peoples in the Middle East
and around the world that have supported the Palestinian struggle for so many
years. Moreover, it would have been economically dependent on both Israel and
the surrounding reactionary Arab states.

It was clear that the US intended to use the mini-state for its own reasons when
it built a our-story PA security office in Ramallah, that Sharon had destroyed
during the Al-Aksa Intifada, and brought PA security forces to CIA headquarters
in Langely, Virginia for training -- many of whom were also assassinated by
Israeli forces in the early days of that Intifada. Sharon clearly didn't want a
sibling rival that might prove useful to the US.

JM: The United States has had a consistent policy since World War II of fighting
all regimes across the Third World that insist on controlling heir national
resources, whether it be land, oil, or other valuable minerals. This extends
from Iran in 1953 to Guatemala in 1954 to the rest of Latin America all the way
to present-day Venezuela.

JB: The US has made a modus vivendi with the major sources of oil globally
without requiring an armed takeover until the present war. The alestinians,
having none such resources would, at best, regain their water aquifers that are
presently controlled by Israel but in which the US has no direct interest, so
this argument of Massad's is irrelevant. Moreover, the Palestinian situation is
unique among liberation struggles in that its "leadership" under Arafat and
until Hamas's victory, rather than fighting the US, has eagerly sought its
embrace.

JM: Africa has fared much worse in the last four decades, as have many countries
in Asia. Why would the United States support nationalist regimes in the Arab
world who would nationalize natural resources and stop their pillage by American
capital absent the pro-Israel lobby also remains a mystery unexplained by these
studies. Finally, the United States government has opposed and overthrown or
tried to overthrow any regime that seeks real and tangible independence in the
Third World and is especially galled by those regimes that pursue such policies
through democratic elections.

The overthrow of regimes from Arbenz to Goulart to Mossadegh and Allende and the
ongoing attempts to overthrow Chavez are prominent examples, as is the overthrow
of nationalist regimes like Sukarno's and Nkrumah's. The terror unleashed on
populations who challenged the US-installed friendly regimes from El Salvador
and Nicaragua to Zaire to Chile and Indonesia resulted in the killing of
hundreds of thousands, if not millions by repressive police and militaries
trained for these important tasks by the US. This is aside from irect US
invasions of South East Asian and Central American countries that killed untold
millions for decades.

Why would the US and its repressive agencies stop invading Arab countries, or
stop supporting the repressive police forces of dictatorial Arab regimes and why
would the US stop setting up shadow governments inside its embassies in Arab
apitals to run these countries' affairs (in some cases the US shadow government
runs the Arab country in question down to the smallest detail ith the Arab
government in question reduced to executing orders) if the pro-Israel lobby did
not exist is never broached by these studies let lone explained.

JB: Massad presents a long history of US depredations of the Third World
countries that has no relevance to this issue. Mearsheimer and Walt do not state
or imply that, absent the Israel Lobby, the US would support nationalist regimes
in the region. In 1958, Pres. Eisenhower sent the arines to Lebanon to prevent
what was thought to be a radical nationalist move against the status quo, but
the US has only invaded Arab countries wice, Kuwait in 1991, to oust the Iraqis
and in 2003. As pointed out earlier, the first required the assistance of the
Israel lobby capped by the phony incubator story that was orchestrated by Rep.
Tom Lantos, an author or co-sponsor of numerous Iraqi and Syria sanction bills
and nti-Palestinian legislation. (According to the Jerusalem Post, Lantos
represents Israel in countries where it has no diplomatic recognition.)

Israel and the lobby had anticipated that the Senior Bush would remove Saddam as
called for in he Clean Break and when he didn't they started criticizing him and
planning for a future administration that would do the job and the record on
that is very clear. AIPAC took credit for writing the anti-Syrian legislation
that led to the withdrawal from Lebanon of the relatively mall number of Syrian
forces that were in the country and more recently the Lobby has been the only
sector of US society actively calling for what is unmistakably an armed
confrontation with Iran.

JM: The arguments put forth by these studies would have been more convincing if
the Israel lobby was forcing the United States government to pursue policies in
the Middle East that are inconsistent with its global policies elsewhere. This,
however, is far from what happens. While US policies in the Middle East may
often be an exaggerated form of its repressive and anti- democratic policies
elsewhere in the world, they are not inconsistent with them. One could easily
make the case that the strength of the pro-Israel lobby is what accounts for
this exaggeration, but even this contention is not entirely persuasive.

JB: From the end of the Vietnam War to the beginning of the first Gulf War, the
profits of the weapons industry continued to soar, proving that an actual
shooting war was not necessary for the arms manufacturers to make windfall
profits or the capitalist system to survive. Given that both US political
parties are committed to what is euphemistically called "national defense,"
there is no debate in Congress over the size of the ilitary budget.
Consequently, except for the Middle East, what the US has sought politically has
been stability, the kind of stability that provides a ready source of raw
materials and an outlet for US products. Those products include, of course, US
weaponry, some of which may be used to quiet domestic rebellions, and some, like
fighter jets, for national pride and kickbacks on both sides. It is only in the
Middle East where a stable nvironment is required to maintain the oil that fuels
much of the world's economy, including our own, where there is continued
instability, and that is what both Mearsheimer and Walt correctly contend is the
fault of Israel and the Israel Lobby.

JM: One could argue (and I have argued elsewhere) that it is in fact the very
centrality of Israel to US strategy in the Middle East that accounts, in part,
for the strength of the pro-Israel lobby and not the other way around. Indeed,
many of the recent studies highlight the role of pro-Likud members of the Bush
administration (or even of the Clinton administration) as evidence of the
lobby's awesome power, when, it could be easily argued that it is these American
politicians who had pushed Likud and Labour into more intransigence in the 1990s
and are pushing them towards more conquest now that they are at the helm of the
US government. This is not to say, however, that the leaders of the pro-Israel
lobby do not regularly brag about their crucial influence on US policy in
Congress and in the White House. That they have done regularly since the late
1970s. But the lobby is powerful in the United States because its major claims
are about advancing US interests and its support for Israel is contextualized in
its upport for the overall US strategy in the Middle East.

JB: Here, Massad seems to be placing the blame for Israel's intransigence on the
Lobby while denying its effect on US policy, a curious turn of thinking. Massad
refers to what he has written elsewhere about the "centrality" of Israel to US
Middle East strategy but it is sorely missed in this article when such an
explanation is required to refute Mearsheimer and Walt. It would be more useful
than reciting the well known history of US imperialism elsewhere that has little
bearing on this dispute. He owes it to Mearsheimer and Walt as well as the
reader to describe what he elieves to be "overall US strategy in the Middle
East" and how Israel serves it, to the extent that justifies the billions of aid
and political over in the international arena.

JM: The pro-Israel lobby plays the same role that the China lobby played in the
1950s and the Cuba lobby still plays to this day. The fact that it is more
powerful than any other foreign lobby on Capitol Hill testifies to the
importance of Israel in US strategy and not to some fantastical power that the
lobby commands independent of and extraneous to the US "national interest." The
pro-Israel lobby could not sell its message and would not have any influence if
Israel was a communist or anti-imperialist country or if Israel opposed US
policy elsewhere in the world.

JB: Comparing the Israel Lobby to the old China Lobby is like comparing the NY
Yankees, when they are winning, to a semi-pro team. The China lobby did not have
several dozen Chinese members of Congress, hundreds of organizations and
thousands of religious institutions and billions of dollars in political
contributions behind it. It did not own or control any section of the US media
or was there, outside of the handful of the nations' Chinatowns and the John
Birch Society, an army of grassroots activists. The Cuba lobby which is, in
fact, more properly called the anti-Cuba lobby, not coincidentally, has a strong
working relationship with AIPAC for their mutual benefit, but it doesn't begin
to compare with the Israel Lobby's power although it has seen to it that Florida
will stay in the Republican column. Of course, if Israel was a communist or
nti-imperialist country, the Jews in the US would no doubt be like the
anti-Castro Cubans, calling on the US to liberate it.

JM: Some would argue that even though Israel attempts to overlap its interests
with those of the US, that its lobby is misleading American policy- makers and
shifting their position from one of objective assessment of what is truly in
America's best interest and that of Israel's. The argument runs as follows: US
support for Israel causes groups who oppose Israel to hate the US and target it
for attacks. It also costs the US friendly media coverage in the Arab world,
affects its investment potential in Arab countries, and loses its important
allies in the region, or at least weakens these allies. But none of this is
true. The United States has been able to be Israel's biggest backer and
financier, its staunchest defender and weapon-supplier while maintaining
strategic alliances with most if not ll Arab dictatorships, including the
Palestinian Authority under both Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Moreover, US
companies and American nvestments have the largest presence across the Arab
world, most prominently but not exclusively in the oil sector.

JB: US support for Israel does not target it for attacks? That would be news to
the families of the marines, soldiers and sailors killed in the bombing of the
marine barracks in Beirut in 1983, as well as American diplomats who have been
targeted in the region over the years. Had Israel not invaded Lebanon, these
American servicemen killed in their barracks might still be alive, as well the
members of the CIA who were wiped out in an earlier bombing of the US embassy in
Beirut. Furthermore, without getting into the serious questions that remain
unanswered about the 9-11 attack, it has been accepted by those who believe the
official narrative that US support for Israel was one of the reasons behind the
attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. If the authors and others,
including this writer have argued are correct, a significant portion of the
esponsibility for the dead and wounded on both sides in Iraq can be laid at the
feet of Israel and the Israel Lobby, but the latter, in particular.

It is difficult to measure the effect on investment potential and sales of
American products in Middle Eastern markets, but to say that it isn't "true"
that it would increase if the US was not supporting Israel is hardly realistic.

JM: Also, even without the pathetic and ineffective efforts at US propaganda in
the guise of the television station Al-Hurra, or Radio Sawa and the now-defunct
Hi magazine, not to mention US-paid journalists and newspapers in Iraq and
elsewhere, a whole army of Arabic newspapers and tate-television stations, not
to mention myriad satellite television stations celebrate the US and its
culture, broadcast American programs, and attempt to sell the US point of view
as effectively as possible encumbered only by the limitations that actual US
policies in the region lace on common sense. Even the offending Al-Jazeera has
bent over backwards to accommodate the US point of view but is constantly
undercut y actual US policies in the region. Al-Jazeera, under tremendous
pressure and threats of bombing from the United States, has for example stopped
eferring to the US occupation forces in Iraq as "occupation forces" and now
refers to them as "coalition forces." Moreover, since when has the US sought to
win a popularity contest among the peoples of the world? Arabs no more hate or
love the United States than do Latin Americans, Africans, Asians, or even and
especially Europeans.

JB: The US, as a country, is not loved or well liked anywhere except, perhaps,
Israel. Much depends, of course, on an individual's political onsciousness, but
most of the peoples of the world have had a love-hate relationship with the US,
despising its policies but colonized by its aterialism. The war on Iraq and the
US voters' re-election of Bush have put more weight in the "hate" column, and in
Latin America, Bush has roved to be the most unpopular US president since they
started taking polls. It is not unlikely that as the war continues and the US
continues to make threats against Iran, again pressured by the Lobby, the degree
of antagonism towards the US and US products is certain to increase.

JM: Finally we come to the financial argument, namely that the US gives an
inordinate amount of money to Israel -- too exorbitant a cost that is out of
proportion to what the US gets in return. In fact, the United States spends much
more on its military bases in the Arab world, not to mention on those in Europe
or Asia, than it does on Israel. Israel has indeed been very effective in
rendering services to its US master for a good price, whether in channeling
illegal arms to central American dictatorships in the 1970s and 1980s, helping
pariah regimes like Taiwan and apartheid South Africa in the same period,
supporting pro-US, including Fascist, groups inside the Arab world to undermine
nationalist Arab regimes, from Lebanon to Iraq to Sudan, coming to the aid of
conservative pro-US Arab regimes when threatened as it did in Jordan in 1970,
and attacking Arab nationalist regimes outright as it did in 1967 with Egypt and
Syria and in 1981 with Iraq when it destroyed that country's nuclear reactor.
While the US had been able to overthrow Sukarno and Nkrumah in bloody coups,
Nasser emained entrenched until Israel effectively neutralized him in the 1967
War. It is thanks to this major service that the United States increased its
support to Israel exponentially.

JB: Here, Massad seems to be channeling Noam Chomsky. Israel has never seen the
US as its master. Not a single Israeli soldier has shed a drop of blood for US
interests and as Ariel Sharon said on Israeli army radio several years ago, the
US knows that no Israeli soldier ever will. At the time of Israel's attack on
Egypt in 1967, France was the major arms supplier and the certain sectors of the
US government were engaged with members of Egypt's military. To describe the
defeat of Nasser as a service done by Israel for the benefit of the US, which
the term, "service," clearly implies, may be convenient for Chomsky and Massad
but it is a both an oversimplification as well as a distortion of history. In
fact, it asn't until the 1973 war, when Israel, under attack by Egypt and Syria,
threatened to use its nuclear weapons unless the US came through with a massive
conventional arms airlift, that US support for Israel really took off. So did
the oil prices as an Arab oil boycott was implemented in esponse. Was the very
real threat of a nuclear war, which would have brought in the Soviet Union, in
the US interest? Was the Arab oil embargo?

Israel's arms sales in Latin America and South Africa were done to benefit
Israel's arms industry and that they were useful to the US was a secondary
factor. What the Lobby was able to do was keep members of the Congressional
Black aucus, including the notable Ron Dellums, from publicly condemning
Israel's arms sales to South Africa in violation of international sanctions, and
to silence those members of Congress who were quick to condemn US actions in
Central America but afraid to do so when Israel was the malefactor. That fear is
no less prevalent in Congress today where any member can get up to criticize
George Bush but none dare say a negative word about the Israeli prime minister,
irrespective of who holds that office.

Israel's role in the Jordanian-Palestinian conflict in 1970 is always raised by
those who argue for Israel's usefulness. We are told that Israel was acting at
the behest of the US when it threatened to intervene if Syrian tanks moved south
to efend the Palestinians under attack by Jordan's King Hussein and that this
prevented the possible overthrow of the US-friendly Hashemite regime. his fits
neatly fits into the client state scenario, except it is missing a key element.
What was crucial in that situation was the refusal of Hafez Al-Assad, then head
of the Syrian air force, and not a supporter of the PLO, to back up the Syrian
tank force that had entered Northern Jordan. Shortly thereafter, Al-Assad staged
a coup against the pro-Palestinian president Atassi and proceeded to throw
hundreds of Palestinians and ro-Palestinian Syrians in prison and break up the
radical Syrian-supported militia group, Al-Saika This bit of history has
apparently now been written out of history.

JM: Moreover, Israel neutralized the PLO in 1982, no small service to many Arab
regimes and their US patron who could not fully control the rganization until
then.

JB: It was appreciated in the beginning by many Lebanese, particularly in the
south who found some elements of the PLO heavy-handed and were tired of having a
liberation war fought on their soil, until they began to experience Israeli
occupation for themselves and began to resist. The Israeli attack violated an
11-month cease-fire that had been negotiated by Ambassador Philip Habib and to
which the PLO had strictly adhered. The Senior Bush, then vice-president,
opposed the Israeli invasion and wanted Israel to be censured and was overruled
by Reagan and Alexander Haig. A year before Bush Sr. was angered by Israel's
attack on Iraq's Osirak reactor and wanted Israel censured at that time, but was
again overruled.

JM: None of the American military bases on which many more billions are spent
can claim such a stellar record.

JB: A stellar record? What Massad has done here is only distinguishable from an
AIPAC press release justifying increasing US aid by its criticism of US
imperialism but hardly by its tone. He has avoided dealing with most of the
specifics that Mearsheimer and Walt raise by simply repeating what Chomsky has
written in a dozen or so books and hundreds of speeches and rticles with little
evidence to back it up.

JM: Critics argue that when the US had to intervene in the Gulf, it could not
rely on Israel to do the job because of the sensitivity of including it in such
a coalition which would embarrass Arab allies, hence the need for direct US
intervention and the uselessness of Israel as a strategic ally. While this may
be true, the US also could not rely on any of its military bases to launch the
invasions on their own and had to ship in its army. American bases in the Gulf
did provide important and needed support but so did Israel.

JB: Israel did provide training to US troops on the techniques used to occupy
and repress a hostile Arab population, only too pleased to have the US join it
as the only foreign occupier of Arab soil which I believe was one of the reasons
the Israeli government (as well as the lobby) wanted the US to invade Iraq. With
the US taking the same kind of harsh measures to repress the Iraqis, it would be
less likely to complain about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and this
has proved to be the case. Israel has been called by Chomsky America's "cop on
the beat" in the Middle East, but when military intervention has been thought
necessary it has always been American soldiers that have done the fighting. In
fact, US soldiers were sent to Israel during the first Gulf War to operate the
Patriot missile batteries to defend the Israelis.

JM: AIPAC is indeed powerful insofar as it pushes for policies that accord with
US interests and that are resonant with the reigning US imperial ideology. The
power of the pro-Israel lobby, whether in Congress or on campuses among
university administrators, or policy-makers is not based solely on their
organizational skills or ideological uniformity. In no small measure, anti-
Semitic attitudes in Congress (and among university administrators) play a role
in believing the lobby's (and its enemies') exaggerated claims about its actual
power, resulting in their towing the line. But even if this were true, one could
argue, it would not matter whether the lobby has real or imagined power. For as
long as Congress and policy-makers (and university administrators) believe it
does, it will remain effective and powerful. I of course concede this point.

JB: So it is "anti-Semitic" to believe the lobby's claims about its power? What
an extraordinary statement. What would he call those who say the lobby is lying?
It is quite clear that the professor is treading on very shaky grounds here. He
has obviously not studied his history and what has befallen those politicians
who have challenged the lobby and were ubsequently targeted and defeated
beginning with Sen. J William Fulbright who in the early 60s sought to restrict
the lobby's growing power. There are several books written by both supporters of
the lobby and its critics that clearly demonstrate its influence as well as the
tales of former members of Congress who were its victims. What is distressing,
as this statement indicates, is that Massad has obviously not read the available
literature on the subject and yet he believes he is qualified to criticize
Mearsheimer and Walt's paper without having done so.

JM: What then would have been different in US policy in the Middle East absent
Israel and its powerful lobby? The answer in short is: the details and intensity
but not the direction, content, or impact of such policies.

JB: Absent Israel and hence the lobby one can't begin to speculate. To raise the
question is just a distraction.

JM: Is the pro-Israel lobby extremely powerful in the United States? As someone
who has been facing the full brunt of their power for the last three years
through their formidable influence on my own university and their attempts to
get me fired, I answer with a resounding yes. Are they primarily responsible for
policies towards the Palestinians and the Arab world? Absolutely not.

JB: The full brunt of their power? A great deal, admittedly, but hardly the full
brunt, which he would realize if he had made an effort to familiarize himself
with the lobby's history. But again, Prof. Massad offers no reason why the US
could not support a truncated Palestinian state and why the US supports Israel's
maintaining the occupied territories despite the efforts of every president from
Nixon to Clinton to get Israel to give them up.

JM: The United States is opposed in the Arab world as elsewhere because it has
pursued and continues to pursue policies that are inimical to the interests of
most people in these countries and are only beneficial to its own interests and
to the minority regimes in the region that serve those interests, including
Israel. Absent these policies, and not the pro-Israel lobby which supports them,
the United States should expect a change in its standing among Arabs. Short of
that, the United States will have to continue its policies in the region that
have wreaked, and continue to wreak, havoc on the majority of Arabs and not
expect that the Arab people will like it in return.

JB: Every two years, one hears or reads, regarding some issue that deals with
Israel, that "the president" or "Congress" "is not likely to act [against
Israel] due to domestic political considerations in an election year." What
Mearsheimer and Walt recognize and that Massad fails to acknowledge, is the
extent that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is a domestic US issue. That the
Palestine solidarity movement, of which Prof. Massad is a part, has ignored that
fact is a primary reason that to this point in time it as been an utter failure.
This should be a source of embarrassment and reflection, but it so far there is
no sign of it.

There was another Columbia professor who had a more profound understanding of
the situation who is sorely missed and, perhaps, never more so than at this
moment. I refer to the late Edward Said. In his contribution to The New
Intifada, ntitled, appropriately, "America's Last Taboo," he did not mince
words:

What explains this [present] state of affairs? The answer lies in the power of
Zionist organizations in American politics, whose role throughout the "peace
process" has never been sufficiently addressed -- a neglect that is absolutely
astonishing, given the policy of the PLO has been in essence to throw our fate
as a people into the lap of the United States, without any trategic awareness of
how American policy is dominated by a small minority whose views about the
Middle East are in some ways more extreme han those of Likud itself. (Emphasis
added)

And on the subject of AIPAC, Said wrote:

[T]he American Israel Public Affairs Committee ? AIPAC -- has for years been the
most powerful single lobby in Washington. Drawing on a well-organized,
well-connected, highly visible and wealthy Jewish population, AIPAC inspires an
awed fear and respect across the political spectrum. Who is going to stand up to
this Moloch in behalf of the Palestinians, when they can offer nothing, and
AIPAC can destroy a professional career at the drop of a checkbook? In the past,
one or two members of Congress did resist AIPAC openly, but the many political
action committees controlled by AIPAC made sure they were never re-elected... If
such is the material of the egislature, what can be expected of the executive?

Although it is trying, the Israel Lobby does not yet control our academics. On
the critical issue of the lobby's power, it is time they stop acting like it
does.

Jeffrey Blankfort is former editor of the Middle East Labor Bulletin, long-time
hotographer, and has written extensively on the Israel-Palestine conflict. He
can be reached at: jblankfort@earthlink.net.

(2) U.S. officials looking to Israel for technology to fight terrorism

Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:41:12 +0100 From: Rowan Berkeley
<rowan.berkeley@googlemail.com>

U.S. officials looking to Israel for partnership and ideas against terror

By Matthew E. Berger, JTA, April 11, 2006
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=16523

For years, American law enforcement and security experts have been looking to
Israel for the latest in homeland security practices. Now Congress is hoping to
work with Israel and other at-risk countries to develop science and technology
applications to fight terrorism. Israel advocates are behind new legislation
that would create an office within the Department of Homeland Security for
counterterrorism cooperation between the United States and its allies. Israel is
one of a handful of countries named in the legislation that U.S. officials
believe could provide technological assistance. The effort comes as numerous
states and municipalities, as well as law enforcement agencies, are sending
representatives to Israel to pick the brains of counterterrorism leaders.

While there is much to be learned from watching Israel fight terrorism, even
more can be garnered by partnering with them in developing new tools, lawmakers
said. "We have gone and looked at what was there, not with a notion of
partnering with cooperation, but taking back what we saw and trying to duplicate
it," said Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), a co-sponsor of the legislation and
the ranking Democrat on the U.S. House of Representatives' Homeland Security
Committee. "With this legislation, we are fostering that cooperation so that we
can jointly produce the best technology available."

The bill creates a new office and grant program in the Homeland Security
Department that would foster cooperation between research and development
communities in the United States and countries like Israel. Also mentioned are
the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and Singapore. The bill was introduced by
Thompson and Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.), chairman of the Homeland Security
Committee, as well as the chairman and ranking Democrat on the subcommittee on
emergency preparedness, science and technology, Reps. Dave Reichert (R-Wash.)
and Bill Pascrell, Jr. (D-N.J.). It was unanimously approved by the subcommittee
last month.

The legislation has been supported by the American Israel Public Affairs
Committee, which in recent years has worked to promote U.S.-Israeli partnerships
in homeland security to highlight the value of the bilateral relationship. "We
believe its passage will contribute to a safer United States, a safer Israel and
better safety for all other American allies in the war against terrorism who
participate in international cooperative programs through the Department of
Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate," AIPAC's executive
director, Howard Kohr, and deputy director for policy and government affairs,
David Cohen, wrote to King last month. The bill also is being backed by the
International Association of Fire Chiefs and the National Sheriffs' Association.

Visits to Israel have been frequent since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks
in the United States, but there has been little partnership between the two
countries, even as many states and municipalities have set up similar programs,
analysts said. "With DHS, it's a little more complicated because it's a new
organization," said Gen. Simon Perry, the Israeli police attache to North
America. "We are trying to establish cooperation, and there is a beginning."

While high-level officials toured Israel, Homeland Security staffers responsible
for many programs did not. The department already has an international affairs
office, but people with knowledge of the department said it had little input on
policy matters or operational decisions. One analyst described the office as a
"mini-State Department within Homeland Security." By contrast, designers of the
new office hope people will bring suggestions about international cooperation
for a wide range of policy matters and technology development.

Barry Bogage, director of the Maryland/Israel Development Center, said U.S.
officials mainly have been taking from Israel a new way of thinking about
handling crises. "The word I keep hearing about is a different doctrine," he
said. "The U.S. has experience with crime and with car accidents, but not with
bombs going off in the streets and mass-casualty incidents." For example,
Israelis have taught U.S. officials to treat the injured from terrorist attacks
on the scene, rather than bringing them immediately to a hospital. Now,
advocates said, the two countries can work together on technology and products
that can be used in those scenarios. "The United States is very strong in
research and development, as well as Israel," Perry said. "We need the same
tools, so it doesn't make sense that each country should develop its own tools."

Thompson said the United States would be able to provide seed money for many
projects. The bill states that not less than 2.5 percent of the research,
development, testing and evaluation budget for the Directorate of Science and
Technology at Homeland Security each year should go to international programs.
"There is a need for us to look beyond our borders for many of those new
technologies," he said. "My goal with this act is to look at Israel and other
countries that have demonstrated proficiency in many of these technologies."

(3) Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby" - Jim Lobe

Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:47:53 +0100 From: Rowan Berkeley
<rowan.berkeley@googlemail.com>

Iran Showdown Tests Power of "Israel Lobby"

Jim Lobe, IPS, Apr. 11, 2006 http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32862

One month after the publication by two of the most influential international
relations scholars in the United States of a highly controversial essay on the
so-called "Israel Lobby", their thesis that the lobby exercises "unmatched
power" in Washington is being tested by rapidly rising tensions with Iran.

Far more visibly than any other domestic constituency, the Israel Lobby, defined
by Profs. John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt,
academic dean of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, as "the loose coalition
of individuals and organisations who actively work to shape U.S. foreign policy
in a pro-Israel direction", has pushed the government -- both Congress and the
George W. Bush administration -- toward confrontation with Tehran.

Leading the charge has been a familiar group of neo-conservatives, such as
former Defence Policy Board (DPB) chairman Richard Perle and former Central
Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey, who championed the war in Iraq but
who have increasingly focused their energies over the past year on building
support for "regime change" and, if necessary, military action against Iran if
it does not abandon its nuclear programme.

(On Tuesday, Iran announced that it had successfully enriched uranium, which can
be used for both nuclear weapons and nuclear power reactors, in defiance of a
U.N. Security Council resolution ordering an end to all enrichment activities by
Apr. 28).

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the premier Israel lobby
group whose annual convention last year featured a giant, multi-media exhibit on
how Iran is "pursuing nuclear weapons and how it can be stopped", has also been
pushing hard on Capitol Hill for legislation to promote regime change. Despite
White House objections, the group has sought tough sanctions against foreign
companies with investments in Iran.

"This bill has been pushed almost entirely by AIPAC," noted Trita Parsi, a
Middle East expert at Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International Studies
(SAIS) here. "I don't see any other major groups behind this legislation that
have had any impact on it."

Similarly, the American Jewish Committee (AJC), whose leadership is considered
slightly less hawkish than AIPAC, has taken out full-page ads in influential
U.S. newspapers since last week entitled "A Nuclear Iran Threatens All"
depicting radiating circles on an Iran-centred map to show where its missiles
could strike.

"Suppose Iran one day gives nuclear devices to terrorists," the ad reads. "Could
anyone anywhere feel safe?"

In their 81-page essay, entitled "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" and
condensed in a shorter essay published last month in the London Review of Books,
Mearsheimer and Walt, pillars of the "realist" school of international
relations, argue that Washington's Middle East policy is too closely tied to
Israel to serve its own national interests in the region, particularly in the
so-called "war on terror".

They believe that the power of the Israel Lobby -- derived, among other things,
from its ability to marshal financial support for Democratic as well as
Republican politicians, its grassroots organisational prowess, and its ability
to stigmatise critics as "anti-Semitic" (a tactic already deployed against the
authors) -- is largely responsible.

"No lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the
American national interest would otherwise suggest, while simultaneously
convincing Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are essentially the same,"
the authors argued, noting that the lobby, while predominantly Jewish, also
includes prominent Christian evangelicals and non-Jewish neo-conservatives, such
as Woolsey and former Education Secretary William Bennett.

In the administration's decision to invade Iraq, pressure from Israel and the
lobby played a "critical" -- although not exclusive -- role, according to the
paper, which cited pre-war public prodding by Israeli leaders and by leaders of
many major Jewish organisations as evidence, although it notes that most U.S.
Jews were sceptical and have since turned strongly against the war.

Neo-conservatives closely associated with the right-wing views of Israel's Likud
party - both in and outside the administration -- played a particularly
important role in gaining support for "regime change" in Iraq stretching back to
the mid-1990s, according to the paper.

But even during the run-up to the Iraq war, Israeli leaders, notably
then-Defence Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon,
depicted Iran as the greater threat, a theme that was picked up by the Lobby,
led by the neo-conservatives, immediately after Baghdad's fall.

"The liberation of Iraq was the first great battle for the future of the Middle
East... But the next great battle -- not, we hope a military one -- will be for
Iran," wrote the Weekly Standard's neo-conservative editor, William Kristol, in
early May 2003.

Shortly thereafter, neo-conservatives and other hawks led by Vice Pres. Dick
Cheney succeeded in cutting off ongoing U.S.-Iranian talks on Afghanistan and
Iran and killing an offer by Tehran to engage in a broader negotiation on all
outstanding differences.

What makes the growing confrontation with Iran so remarkable is that the Israel
Lobby appears to be the only major organised force here that is actively pushing
it toward crisis.

Mainstream analysts, including arms control hawks who favour strong pressure on
Iran over its nuclear programme, have spoken out against military action as far
too risky and almost certainly counter-productive. Even analysts at the
right-wing Heritage Foundation have voiced doubts. "It just doesn't make any
sense from a geopolitical standpoint," said Heritage's James Carifano, noting
Iran's capacity to retaliate against the U.S. in Iraq.

The Iranian exile community, which has generally favoured more pressure on
Tehran, similarly appears divided about the consequences of a military attack,
with some leaders fearing that it would strengthen the regime, Walt told IPS. He
added that "it's hard for me to believe that (U.S.) oil companies would be in
favour of a military option (because they) don't like violence or events that
create political risk or uncertainty."

While insisting that military action against Iran's nuclear programme should
only be a last resort, the Israel Lobby, on the other hand, appears united in
the conviction that an attack will indeed be necessary if diplomatic efforts,
economic pressure, and covert action fail.

"(Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) sees the West as wimps and thinks we
will eventually cave in," Patrick Clawson, deputy director of research of the
Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a think tank established by AIPAC,
told New Yorker investigative reporter Seymour Hersh. "We have to be ready to
deal with Iran if the crisis escalates."

Hersh summarised Clawson's bottom line as "Iran had no choice other than to
accede to America's demands or face a military attack."

That was much the same message delivered by Perle himself and rapturously
received by the attendees at AIPAC's 2006 convention here last month. The
convention, at which the keynoter, none other than the administration's ultimate
hawk, Vice Pres. Cheney, vowed "meaningful consequences" if Iran did not freeze
its nuclear programme, drew several hundred Democratic and Republican lawmakers
in what could only be described as a show of raw political power.

"I don't think there's another group in the country that has two successive
conferences in which the centrepiece was beating the drums for war in Iran,"
noted one senior official with another major pro-Israel organisation, who asked
not to be identified. "They are the main force behind this."

--
Peter Myers, 381 Goodwood Rd, Childers 4660, Australia ph +61 7 41262296
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers Mirror: http://mailstar.net/index.html I
use the old Mac OS; being incompatible, it cannot run Windows viruses or
transmit them to you. If my mail does not arrive, or yours bounces, please ring
me: this helps beat sabotage. To unsubscribe, reply with "unsubscribe" in the
subject line; allow 1 day.

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:36:41 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Unfortunately, yes it did feel like something personal where as I would have
loved some links that you’d recommend rather than being lost for months on
end in endless lings trying to find what it was that gave you your opinions.

I also knew, if I didn’t shut up and posted my feelings, that you are the
type of person to set things straight. I’ve never known you to take
advantage of or use your power to hurt others.

So, anything you have to share, where I can do some research each evening
would be great. I have people telling me that the Illuminati think that they
are reptilian or something like that, a wikpedia reference (you know, the
ones where each day one of us can go in and change the definition!)
I know almost nothing about them and what is suppose to be their influence
on world affairs, got something to share?

Unfortunately I lost all my links on the computer that I did the research
getting me back to who financed the American and French Revolutions and how
those names directly interconnect to the world wide corporate powers of
today, though I know what few names I started with in google searching. Each
name left a thousand or more links.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:47 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

I thionk that this needs to cease and dissist for a while, because it seems
to be tearing us apart, which is exactly what the Illuminati want. I hope
that you dont think that I was attacking you personLLY Scott. Just very
frustrated.

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzio.com> wrote:
Uhhh… what did I say that gave that impression?

By the time I see this coming from you, I can no longer find the lies and
other things that were used to separate one persons comments from another’s.

Never mind, I’ll drop it. I’m not getting anywhere and now you think I am
doing 180 of what I have said. After all I posted, you get that I am calling
Zionism Judaism, when I am pointing out the differences.

Then the later post where you stated this:

“OH for CRYIN OUT LOUD! Do I have to spell it OUT?! Do you forget the
balfour declaration and the Rothschilds?! C'MON! But like I said the
Zionists are only a part of it. Just wait and see who will end up wanting
to be the big peacemaker for the mideast and rule from Jerusalem! wanna
guess?! remember the Crusades? Bush called the whore on terror a
""CRUSADE""! Think it was a coincedence? I am tellin you. keep a
watchful eye on ROME! two successful popes have now called for a New World
Order! also look into the p2 masonic lodge and its connection to the
vatican and the cia. PLEASE!”

I can’t figure out what it is that you are attacking me for. Your posts seem
to have noting to do with what I stated except to assume I have information
you have studied in depth.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:12 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is
pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own
research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
other stuff he wrote.

-
A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets say C-4 since it is compact
and easy to transport. A van load of it wouldn’t have been enough to take
down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way the building could have
been rigged over night. Traditional demolition experts figured weeks in a
rush job, more likely months.
So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that
could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days
later?
To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some scientific fact, you’d have to
know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with
the data we have gathered.

As far as Faux News, I have no idea if they were one of the three stations I
watched most that morning, from about 8 minutes after the first plane hit, I
watched live newscasts, but Faux News, they are professional revisionist
story tellers, their news is to get their advertisers money, not to tell the
truth, in my personal opinion, they are trying to take the national Enquirer
’s business away. Their credibility ain’t worth the airwaves they broadcast
over.
They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they
rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
happened.
What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn’t even compare with
what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just
reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All they got
right was that a great many people died and that a great many people were in
shock.

I don't understand that either

I and my X wife read everything we could on the WTC towers after our
daughter started work there, about 1998, we both were independently aware
that in the original articles of impeachment for Clinton one of the articles
was that a private plane had made it into NYC airspace, 12.5 minutes or
something like that, and that was the only instance of the 10 minute
response time having been violated in 12 years, before that it was a 12
minute response time, until 9/11/01 when it was closer to 1 hour and 43
minutes.
Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security clearance, my
daughter can’t talk about anything other than her emotions that day. If you
have ever worked a federal government job, if you’ve ever been a civilian
whose company did contracts for the Government, you’ll understand her
position and why I never pushed her for any other details.

We know Cheney ordered the Colonel at Norad to stand down. We know that with
an inter office memo that Bush transferred the power that congress had given
to the president and the President only, to his Vice President, Dick Cheney.
We now know that Cheney was in charge of Norad that morning. Of course no
one needed to get GW to safety, it was an inside job. That is data, those
are things that can be found again and again in internet searches, facts
that can be verified, many articles written about them plus Cheney direction
Norad is in the 911 Commission report. They fucking aren’t afraid of those
that do research, they control all the information superhighway except the
internet and who knows if we have days or years left there.
I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview of the
Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half dozen
videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now hearsay. But
the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad
controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is there for
those who dig.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?
That is the door to the slaughter house.
Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can’t verify as truth yourself
and that is where you are headed.

Scott

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle
> group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
looking at
> the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
Organization.
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you
> say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
men with
> a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but…. A van
full of
> C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> demolition.
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work place
> about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous
> months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully,
> separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just
> after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
ordered him
> to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
orders.
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed
> place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
continually
> telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
our armed
> aircraft into the air that might interfere.
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
to be
> present at the execution.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
the
> company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> before the attacks matters too.
>
> The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> check out the following.
> >
> > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
Jew,
> I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> >
> > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
1/3
> (conservatively) are Jewish.
> >
> > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> >
> > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > debunking these lies via this link.
> >
> > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> >
> > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
and
> power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> >
> > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
the
> truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > from that I wonder?
> >
> > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > much as you obviously think you do.
> >
> > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
rational
> and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
our
> > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
is
> to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > others.
> >
> > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> efforts.
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
those
> with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
wanted
> the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> what you can do about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
as
> you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > prove.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Leslie,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
thre
> New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
that
> to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
individual --
> >
> >
> >
> > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
pointing
> out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> >
> >
> >
> > =================
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, Al.
> >
> > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> >
> > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
Israel
> > had anything to do with it?
> >
> > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> >
> > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > is ample proof of each point.
> >
> > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> >
> > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > walk you through what I have found.
> >
> > Here is a sample:
> >
> > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> >
> > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> corresponded so long ago.
> >
> > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
I
> could only gain.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Dick Eastman
> > Yakima, Washinton
> >
> > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> by chaos theory
> > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> little butterfly who
> > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <aelewis@>
> > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> Dick Eastman
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
observed
> > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
ago
> > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
life
> > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > Jew-hating spin.
> >
> > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
Zionists,
> > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
is a
> > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > distinguished from its parent.)
> >
> > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
women
> > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > rationalization for their malady":
> >
> > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> further
> > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> which
> > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
a
> > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
to 'the
> > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> hatred to
> > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> malady.'"
> >
> > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
it.
> > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
as
> > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
cesspool,
> > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
is
> > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> >
> > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
a
> > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
generally
> > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> >
> > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
message
> > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
out
> > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
it
> > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
single
> > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
credibility
> > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
be a
> > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
that
> > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
Yes,
> > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> >
> > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
does
> > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
of
> > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
to
> > understand.
> >
> > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
wants
> > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
Personality
> > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
reality
> > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
not
> > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> >
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> >
> > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
their
> > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > four (or more) of the following:
> >
> > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
exploiting,
> > harming, or deceiving him or her
> >
> > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> >
> > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> >
> > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > remarks or events
> >
> > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > injuries, or slights
> >
> > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > counterattack
> >
> > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
Association.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> >
> > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:34:06 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

You say I am mixing too many factors without justification.
I am saying that 9-11 could not have been brought off without mixing of big business and Mossad, CIA, MI5 (Israel, US and Britain at covert levels) -- because functionally and structurally the powerful and high interests that pulled off the 9-11 false-flag operation must control the state of Israel, the government of Great Britain and the U.S. government, just as they control the corporations, banks (and Congress, Parliament and Knesset). These men had both profits and the security of Israel on their minds -- the security of Israel gave the 9-11 operation a moral justification that otherwise was lacking in these men's motivations. Please comment.

I hope other people are reading your letters and the responses of J. Austin and myself to them. It is my belief that intelligent people of good will who are possessed of all the facts cannot help but come to a meeting of minds if they stick to it.

Dick Eastman
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Schwartz
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

No Dick, I will reply in more detail later. This event is not all that substantially different in character than Gulf of Tonkin, and many other similar, etc. Its done by the arms and arms finance industry, with key government official taking the lead role in the disinformation campaign. You're mixing too many factors together and as with so many similar events in our history it originates from within our power structure. Israel is an incidental beneficiary, even if mossad or some other free lance foreign black op covert agencies were used. It is also like Hitler's Reichstag fire; purpose to use domestic terror gain control of the government and the internal political agenda. Don't blind yourself with the anger towards Israel or Zionists.

Further your contention;

"Mossad would be the agency that would then oversee the positioning of accomplices/moles/operatives in all of the critical/strategic/necessary/sufficient positions in the U.S. and British institutions (MI5, MI6, NSA, CIA, FBI, WHite House, Pentagon, FAA)"

Sorry, but that Is (respectfully) ridiculous on its face.

If that really is your conclusion start presenting the facts and prove it and stop just offering opinions and theories and conjecture as conclusions, just because you see some overlapping categories among these groups and some possible motives, all that is not proof.

Later .

Leslie

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:59 AM
To: 911-disc@yahoogroups.com; 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

----- Original Message -----

From: Leslie Schwartz

To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:17 PM

Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

>I have seen a number of messages on this message board NOT making that distinction, and in fact lumping together, Jews, Zionists, Neocons, mossad, Judaism, Israelis, Ashkenazi Jews, the Rothschild's, the illuminati, the Rockefellers, the Warburg's, PNAC, the CFR, the etc. and etc., and mentioning specific high profile people who may fall within one or more of those categories.

Leslie, all these terms are in use by people doing their own detective work on 9-11 and the origin of the Arab-American wars. When Wolfowitz has Perle, Kissinger, Feith etc. in a group at the Pentagon in the months leading up to 9-11 and when there is proof that the attack on the Pentagon was an inside-job -- then we must ask ourselves what these men -- Wolfowitz, Perle, Kissinger, Feith, Dov Zakheim, Rumsfeld have in common that may be clues to their organization/motives/network/method etc. When dealing the Perle, Wolfowitz and Kissinger a great many leads are obvious -- Jews, Zionists, Neocons, Mossad, Likud, the Rothschild's, the Rockefellers, PNAC, the CFR.

Think about this: An operation like 9-11 -- if it was an inside-job false-flag operation at all -- could not have originated in the overt organization charts of U.S. agencies -- it must have had its origins in secret groups of people who could trust each other with such (dastardly, illegal, secrecy-demanding) plans. Mossad is one of only a few possibilities of where the idea could have been hatched (the other possibility is that the idea was hatched among a group of the world's billionaires -- Perle and Kissinger being their agents -- but even in this case, the next step would have had to have been to bring in Mossad as the primary "caterer" -- because only Mossad (unlike CIA, NSA, MI6) had the ethnic, religious and ideological unity/solidarity (let's call it 'radical likudnikism' if not "Zionism") to work in confidence of the unlikliness of betrayal.

Mossad would be the agency that would then oversee the positioning of accomplices/moles/operatives in all of the critical/strategic/necessary/sufficient positions in the U.S. and British institutions (MI5, MI6, NSA, CIA, FBI, WHite House, Pentagon, FAA) as well as the key control positions of the private sector (sufficient mass media, ADL, think tanks, opinion makers). This could not be accomplished by any organization -- say the NSA -- within the U.S. -- the American leadership by "yes-men" is not that dependable. And so Mossad made sure that all strategic points within the Pentagon were made secure for 9-11. etc.

You yourself are being unfair, Leslie, when you say we "lump together" these terms. When I say "Zionist" I do not mean "Jews" (as in all Jews) -- when I say CFR or PNAC or ADL I mean exactly those organizations and nothing else. No one is "lumping" (i.e., equating) all these things anywhere. Remember, I have said again and again that only individuals commit crimes, not groups -- but individuals work in groups and for groups and it is in groups that we find them and understand them.

>I also recall some hater using the term "crypto-Jews" on this message board as if any self respecting individual is going to hide the fact they are Jewish becomes THAT writer hates Jews. This is delusional and it is offensive.

I also heard someone refer to the Charlie Sheen as a "crypto-Jew" -- a term I don't understand -- maybe Charlie has Jewish people in his family tree, and maybe he does not advertize it (why should he bother -- unless to help his career in Hollywood, but apparently he has not bothered) -- but look at Ed Asner -- also speaking about the 9-11 standdown (I know that Asner is talking "false-flag", I haven't heard him yet) -- but I ask you Leslie -- is "crypto-Jew" any less of an unfair term than calling me a "hater" just because I look in the backgrounds of Perle, Wolfowitz, Kissinger etc. and find common elements of Zionists, Neocons, CFR, Rockefellers, Rothschilds (in Perle's case)? Certainly it is reasonable to look at their backgrounds -- certainly these ties are relevant -- or af least very very very suspicious.

When necessary and accurate distinctions are not made and a message goes out which obviously has some emotion, even anger over the events associated with 9/11/01 (emotion which is otherwise understandable) it is an ugly thing to read, its racist, its UN-AMERICAN and I personally do not think it helps anyone to understand these events or how we can constructively respond to the overall situation.

You are right -- and the worst part is that it alienates intelligent and fair-minded people like yourself, especially since you are Jewish and Jews are needed in raising the cry against the perpetrators -- if only to overcome the strong negatives of the "Jew haters" like me -- or like I have been written off as being.

If you want to be taken seriously and treated with respect for your research and comments, you should know that is not going to be the response when you basically write everything bad that happens in this world is one kind of flavor of the month "Jewish conspiracy" by one name or another.

But 9-11 was a conspiracy of one kind and it did involve men who are confirmed Zionists, it did involve Mossad (see my reasons for saying this), and it did involve the neo-cons -- as represented by the leadership at the Pentagon -- but of course including Cheney and (cipher) Bush (the former of which is a Zionist -- the latter merely a sociopathic useful idiot).

If you make the sufficient and accurate distinctions and make a sincere effort to report only what you have verified to be factual you will not hear any complaints about it. If you don't have proof and only have a theory then say that, and when your making broad accusations about the actions, motives and future plans of groups or categories of people chances are your going to have to account for that uncertainty in your statement, otherwise its an accusation without sufficient proof and it will again cause people to distrust your motives and good-will.

My proof is the Pentagon attack evidence which implicates the Pentagon leadership -- Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kissinger (in the Wolfowitz group at the Pentagon) and the ties of those men, the interests that put them there. http://bedoper.com/eastman

We are solving a case where the government (which ordinarily would investigate the crime) is itself the guilty party -- and we must work back to find all the people/motives/methods behind the crime.

That being said, I admit to guilt in not making the distinction that when I say that the Pentagon leadership is almost all Jewish and that the Pentagon leadership are implicated in the false-flag attack ont he Pentagon -- that I am not saying that ALL JEWS WERE IN ON THE PLOT. (I would think that intelligent people would understand that without my saying it.) But it is important that they are Jewish, because that leads us to investigate their network and affiliations -- the powers that brought them their, their goals, the way they carried off this complex and far-reaching operation.

Leslie

Dick Eastman

Yakima, Washington

Every man is responsible to every other man.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:12 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzithero.com> wrote:

Sorry, in the deluge of all the reasons I hear to go to war, I only saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming that the Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war, they never responded or were able to share where their source of information was from, so all I had was their personal hearsay, that they got it from someone they trusted, as hearsay and that they themselves were as trustworthy as the person who gave them the hearsay, so there was no need for me to question anything they passed along. That is, they couldn't show me any independent data to show that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war, much less any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing, happens all the time and a great many ludicrous things get dumped on those of Jewish faith that maybe the Israel government may have wanted or tried to do. Even though I haven't been the slightest fan of the Israeli government since the attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn't colored my feelings for individuals of Jewish faith.

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to other stuff he wrote.

So, if you have any hard facts, references I can read myself, that show that the Jewish Lobby and the Israeli government actually pushed for the US to go to war with countries that had no connection with the phantom 911 terrorists (like the 7 Saudi's. that are still alive, last seen in Saudi Arabia itself) please share them. I make up my own mind. If this was a court of law and I was a juror, I definitely couldn't give the death penalty on what information I have seen.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets say C-4 since it is compact and easy to transport. A van load of it wouldn't have been enough to take down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way the building could have been rigged over night. Traditional demolition experts figured weeks in a rush job, more likely months.

So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days later?

To turn this 'suspect' evidence into some scientific fact, you'd have to know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with the data we have gathered.

They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever happened.

What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn't even compare with what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All they got right was that a great many people died and that a great many people were in shock.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for years, that there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and no one knew what it was, much of it was after hours.

I use to be a building demolition junkie, I've seen hundreds of film clips on this, I seen more than a few in person.

Fire didn't take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition did.

I have friends that are pilots, they referred me to several buildings that jet liners had hit and then I researched those thoroughly. I researched to see how many steel structure buildings had fallen from airplane hits and the resulting fires. ZERO. I looked to see how many steel structured buildings I could find that had fallen due to fires, maybe there was more 'interesting footage' like the three WTC towers. ZERO, no other steel structure building has ever fallen from a fire even one induced by crashing a jet liner into it.

Yet I have seen a great many buildings demolished and what I saw that morning, I was sure was a demolition job. After my research, I couldn't only imagine how far off I was thinking of how blood thirsty those who pulled this off were.

Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security clearance, my daughter can't talk about anything other than her emotions that day. If you have ever worked a federal government job, if you've ever been a civilian whose company did contracts for the Government, you'll understand her position and why I never pushed her for any other details.

I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview of the Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half dozen videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now hearsay. But the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is there for those who dig.

I haven't researched the nitty gritty details that so many others have, I have researched what I saw and heard in 4 hours that morning watching 2 different TV's and all I can find is that it is a darker more sinister picture than I thought that morning.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?

That is the door to the slaughter house.

Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can't verify as truth yourself and that is where you are headed.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle
> group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
looking at
> the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
Organization.
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you
> say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
men with
> a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but.. A van
full of
> C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> demolition.
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work place
> about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous
> months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully,
> separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just
> after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
ordered him
> to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
orders.
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed
> place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
continually
> telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
our armed
> aircraft into the air that might interfere.
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
to be
> present at the execution.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
the
> company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> before the attacks matters too.
>
> The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> check out the following.
> >
> > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
Jew,
> I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> >
> > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
1/3
> (conservatively) are Jewish.
> >
> > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> >
> > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > debunking these lies via this link.
> >
> > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> >
> > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
and
> power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> >
> > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
the
> truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > from that I wonder?
> >
> > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > much as you obviously think you do.
> >
> > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
rational
> and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
our
> > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
is
> to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > others.
> >
> > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> efforts.
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
those
> with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
wanted
> the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> what you can do about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
as
> you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > prove.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Leslie,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
thre
> New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
that
> to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
individual --
> >
> >
> >
> > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
pointing
> out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> >
> >
> >
> > =================
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, Al.
> >
> > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> >
> > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
Israel
> > had anything to do with it?
> >
> > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> >
> > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > is ample proof of each point.
> >
> > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> >
> > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > walk you through what I have found.
> >
> > Here is a sample:
> >
> > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> >
> > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> corresponded so long ago.
> >
> > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
I
> could only gain.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Dick Eastman
> > Yakima, Washinton
> >
> > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> by chaos theory
> > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> little butterfly who
> > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <aelewis@>
> > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> Dick Eastman
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
observed
> > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
ago
> > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
life
> > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > Jew-hating spin.
> >
> > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
Zionists,
> > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
is a
> > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > distinguished from its parent.)
> >
> > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
women
> > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > rationalization for their malady":
> >
> > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> further
> > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> which
> > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
a
> > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
to 'the
> > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> hatred to
> > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> malady.'"
> >
> > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
it.
> > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
as
> > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
cesspool,
> > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
is
> > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> >
> > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
a
> > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
generally
> > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> >
> > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
message
> > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
out
> > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
it
> > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
single
> > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
credibility
> > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
be a
> > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
that
> > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
Yes,
> > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> >
> > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
does
> > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
of
> > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
to
> > understand.
> >
> > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
wants
> > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
Personality
> > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
reality
> > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
not
> > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> >
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> >
> > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
their
> > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > four (or more) of the following:
> >
> > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
exploiting,
> > harming, or deceiving him or her
> >
> > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> >
> > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> >
> > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > remarks or events
> >
> > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > injuries, or slights
> >
> > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > counterattack
> >
> > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
Association.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> >
> > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> _____
>

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[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:41:50 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Also, unfortunately, I can’t get my computer and speaks to give me enough
volume to hear most anything that is in Quick time, real player is a bit
better, Windows media cranked all the way up I can usually hear, so that is
why I still can’t hear your shows and interviews.

Ahh, just saw some links on your web site

www.fightthenwo.org <http://www.fightthenwo.org/>

I’ll come back and ask questions should that not sate my interest on the
Illuminati.

Scott

I thionk that this needs to cease and dissist for a while, because it seems
to be tearing us apart, which is exactly what the Illuminati want. I hope
that you dont think that I was attacking you personLLY Scott. Just very
frustrated.

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzio.com> wrote:
Uhhh… what did I say that gave that impression?

By the time I see this coming from you, I can no longer find the lies and
other things that were used to separate one persons comments from another’s.

Then the later post where you stated this:

I can’t figure out what it is that you are attacking me for. Your posts seem
to have noting to do with what I stated except to assume I have information
you have studied in depth.
Scott

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is
pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own
research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
other stuff he wrote.

-
A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Scott

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle
> group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
looking at
> the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
Organization.
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you
> say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
men with
> a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but…. A van
full of
> C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> demolition.
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work place
> about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous
> months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully,
> separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just
> after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
ordered him
> to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
orders.
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed
> place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
continually
> telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
our armed
> aircraft into the air that might interfere.
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
to be
> present at the execution.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
the
> company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> before the attacks matters too.
>
> The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> check out the following.
> >
> > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
Jew,
> I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> >
> > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
1/3
> (conservatively) are Jewish.
> >
> > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> >
> > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > debunking these lies via this link.
> >
> > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> >
> > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
and
> power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> >
> > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
the
> truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > from that I wonder?
> >
> > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > much as you obviously think you do.
> >
> > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
rational
> and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
our
> > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
is
> to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > others.
> >
> > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> efforts.
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
those
> with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
wanted
> the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> what you can do about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
as
> you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > prove.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Leslie,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
thre
> New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
that
> to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
individual --
> >
> >
> >
> > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
pointing
> out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> >
> >
> >
> > =================
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, Al.
> >
> > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> >
> > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
Israel
> > had anything to do with it?
> >
> > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> >
> > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > is ample proof of each point.
> >
> > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> >
> > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > walk you through what I have found.
> >
> > Here is a sample:
> >
> > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> >
> > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> corresponded so long ago.
> >
> > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
I
> could only gain.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Dick Eastman
> > Yakima, Washinton
> >
> > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> by chaos theory
> > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> little butterfly who
> > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <aelewis@>
> > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> Dick Eastman
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
observed
> > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
ago
> > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
life
> > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > Jew-hating spin.
> >
> > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
Zionists,
> > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
is a
> > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > distinguished from its parent.)
> >
> > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
women
> > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > rationalization for their malady":
> >
> > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> further
> > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> which
> > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
a
> > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
to 'the
> > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> hatred to
> > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> malady.'"
> >
> > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
it.
> > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
as
> > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
cesspool,
> > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
is
> > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> >
> > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
a
> > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
generally
> > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> >
> > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
message
> > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
out
> > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
it
> > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
single
> > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
credibility
> > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
be a
> > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
that
> > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
Yes,
> > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> >
> > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
does
> > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
of
> > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
to
> > understand.
> >
> > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
wants
> > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
Personality
> > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
reality
> > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
not
> > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> >
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> >
> > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
their
> > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > four (or more) of the following:
> >
> > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
exploiting,
> > harming, or deceiving him or her
> >
> > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> >
> > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> >
> > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > remarks or events
> >
> > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > injuries, or slights
> >
> > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > counterattack
> >
> > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
Association.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> >
> > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:42:37 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

And you Protest well.

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Hammond
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Thats a fucking CROCK OF SHIT! I am a ''PROTESTANT"!

mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com> wrote:
second that !!

--- amy dalzell <amydalzell@yahoo.com> wrote:

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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

I second that motion,

if this topic IS NOT DROPPED, i'm going to have to put you under moderated messaging status.......

Even though I try my best to follow jolly's no censoring policy, for the sake of stability, it is imperitive to cool off.

this is probably the most perplexing part of the global paradigm. 9/11 was done via compartmentalizated groups operating relatively unknown to one another unless they needed to know.

All Jews are NOT zionists

NOT all zionists ARE Jews!

The state of israel doesn't act as a representative for the jewish people!

Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Wolfowitz, Zakhiem (guy who "lost" 2.1 trillion dollars from the DoD while comptroller), and Silverstein Zionist Jews, traitors to their tribe and to america! (as skolnick would say!)

Did anyone read my post regarding israels connection to 9/11 and the spy rings across the us?

Does that mean they were the only ones who had a hand in it, NO! How the hell can mossad change the shoot down procedures for hi jacked jets? they can't, they were helped by rummy aspartame rumsfeld.

Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thionk that this needs to cease and dissist for a while, because it seems to be tearing us apart, which is exactly what the Illuminati want. I hope that you dont think that I was attacking you personLLY Scott. Just very frustrated.

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzio.com> wrote:

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:00:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Do Mexicans have Permits For Protests of 50K to 500,000 ...

Banking system is one of the main roots of evil, main reason why america became so powerful is because they said FUCK YOU to the bastard banksters......

colonial scrip google it...

This is about creating the PAN-AMERICAN UNION! kinda like the European Union! CFR motherfuckers want it by 2010! I have a CFR doc detailing it!

They want tensions to be high and try and kick off racial tensions mixed with provacteuring to bring about riots and a fake breakaway of the southwestern US and then offer their fake solution of having a pan american union!

The bastard corporations sold the common folk of both america and central and south america down the river, both parties fuct over while the middle man gets away with making a hell of a profit by outsourcing jobs and selling for huge profits....

Mexico is run by criminal cartels that keep the rest of the population in dire poverty, when you have such an economic vacuum, you are likely to have the problem we are facing now. An ecnomically stable mexico is a national security interest to keep America from being over-run with illegals.....My folks came here legally, don't call me a racist or some other cockamammy thing evil capitalist and so on.......

Keep the bigger picture in mind, the fuckers that be want to create a pan american union!!!!

Read John Coleman's Committee of 300 to learn more about the situation, he explains it beautifully of how both american people and the central and south american people got screwed!

mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com> wrote:
The problem is the global capitalist system with
something like 1 BILLION unemployed - not the Mexican
worker trying to feed his family. You know all this
stuff about the "American Workers" - you show me a man
who isn't concerned about the working man born 5 miles
the OTHER SIDE and I'll show you a man who really
doesn't GIVE A DAMN about the working man born 5 miles
THIS SIDE of the line. IT's all for show,
hypocritical, baloney. The NATION STATE today is a
GEOGRAPHIC ABSTRACTION, but one being used to great
affect to divide the working class and shield a
decrepit and bankrupt system from any unified
challenge. If you can't rise to this challenge, and
rise above nationalism and chauvinism - YOU'RE A BIG
PART OF THE PROBLEM AND A STRATEGIC ALLY OF THE GLOBAL
CAPITALIST CABAL LEADING US STRAIT TO HELL!! Get
"patriotic" with the BLUE-GREEN BALL WE'RE ALL RIDING
ON TOGETHER.

--- Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The television depicts illegal aliens as people
> doing jobs Americans won't do, and shows footage of
> them picking lettuce out of the ground.
> I'm a union carpenter, which is one of the highest
> paying blue-collar jobs an American can get. When I
> was working in Las Vegas, the Mexicans had taken
> over the construction of the Paris Hotel, and layed
> off all the Americans, while the union hall was
> filled with Americans wishing they could work there.
> Rumour has it that they were kicking part of their
> union wage back to their boss, effectively
> undermining the union, and destroying the ability of
> Americans to work in their own city, at much-coveted
> jobs. That's when I left that city. This was back in
> 1999.
> I really don't want to hear the "jobs Americans
> won't do" bullshit, because that's exactly what it
> is. Bullshit. They're stealing our work, because
> they do it for less, and that's why our government
> turned a blind eye to them swarming over the border
> while Americans begged the government to stop the
> invasion for years. Now that there's 20 million of
> them here, and there's nothing that can really be
> done about their presence, the government finally
> turns to the issue because it's providing a
> distraction for their other crimes.
>
> Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am with jolly on this one. And my wife who
> busted her rearend to get here LEGALLY and OBEY te
> LAWS of THIS country resents this bullshit as well.
> I ahve no problem with immigration either. as long
> as they respect OUR constitution and OUR bills of
> rights and dont demand special treatment. Equal
> rights for ALL! And if they want to come heer then
> they can work for the same wages as anyone else.
> and DEMAND the LEGAL wages. I can think of PLENTY
> of folks that have done and WILL DO all of that work
> that they and the globalists say that WE WONT DO!
> They are just asking a somewhat fair wage. Dont you
> people REALIZE that they are being USED by the
> globalists?! WAKE UP! The more of them that come
> up here and work for a pittance, the more and more
> the globalist corporate scumbags will keep paying
> them less and NOT paying AMERICANS and Greencard
> holders AT ALL! What do you think that THEY would
> do with the shoe on the other FOOT? Hmm.
>
> Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote: I
> have no problem with immigration, but 20 million
> people swarming over the border isn't immigration --
> it's an invasion. In the past immigrants have always
> been allowed into the U.S. in reasonable numbers, so
> their arrival wouldn't adversly impact the economy.
> The horde arriving from mexico is described as
> "immigrants" to frame the discussion in that light,
> rather than address the impact thay're having on the
> lives of Americans. They've already brought down our
> wages, the quality of our pubic school education,
> and American's accessibility to heath care, in
> addition to shipping much of the money they make
> here out of the country. Is there some reason that
> America should be deprived of its right to maintain
> its borders like every other country on the planet?
>
> mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com> wrote: Well said.
>
> --- NoRedCoats@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Now, now, there you go talking about immigrants
> > being treated better than
> > Americans and it's all their fault your are
> treated
> > poorly. These immigrants for
> > the most part work hard and have been referred to
> > as "the sleeping giant."
> > Rather than just sleeping, I think the giant was
> too
> > busy WORKING and now is
> > threatened by some up tight, anal retentive people
> > who actually suffer from an
> > inferiority complex. So, they write legislation
> > that would go after the hard
> > working and poor immigrants punishing them and
> > tearing apart their families,
> > friends, wives, etc. Let me ask you the reader,
> > how many Europeans ever
> > got or applied for some kind of Visa or Passport
> > from Native Americans.
> >
>
>
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> spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start
> slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
>
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:20:46 -0000
From: "Scott" <sledger911@yahoo.com>
Subject: Charlie Sheen on Ellen Friday and Jimmy Kimmel Friday Night

Set your Tivo's!!! The Ellen promo went like this.
(Announcer) "He's one of Hollywood's favorite Stars now Charlie
Sheen has something new to talk about" (cut to Ellen saying)... "We
ARE going to talk about it" with emphasis on ARE...

Ellen is a sydicated show that runs at various times in each market
on different networks

He'll be on late night with Jimmy Kimmel 12:30am EST.

PS. I Live in Tampa Bay... Yesterday on two different conservative
talk stations in afternoon drive 9/11 truth was popping out of my
speakers!!! First Michael Medved(sydicated) was doing his
monthly "Conspiracy show" he always does it on the full moon. Lots
of callers talking 9/11 truth and starting to sound more educated!!

Secondly. Todd Schnidt (local show) was on WFLA afternoon drive. He
was getting lambasted with callers(He's deffending the original
story)I got thorugh and acted on his side..hehe.. Then I said " Ya
know there's a great documentry out there that will clear up all
this silly 9/11 confusion ...just go to Google and type in 'Loose
Change', after you watch that you shouldn't have anymore
questions"!!! LOL... I use to work down the hallway at the Classic
Rock Station ...LOL>>>

It's comming out...hahahahahahahahahah mother f'ers!!!

Ledge

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:26:03 -0500
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

Disk,

You’re offering your assertions as proof. It’s not persuasive and it does
not lead you to the facts.

I know that you are putting a great effort into this and I do not want to
disparage that, there is a lot of truth that has not been uncovered, and I
want to know more of the truth too, but ware are not going to get there by
presuming broad unproven assumptions as the basis for finding more of the
truth.

Leslie

_____

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:34 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie
Schwartz, Dick Eastman

You say I am mixing too many factors without justification.

I am saying that 9-11 could not have been brought off without mixing of big
business and Mossad, CIA, MI5 (Israel, US and Britain at covert levels) --
because functionally and structurally the powerful and high interests that
pulled off the 9-11 false-flag operation must control the state of Israel,
the government of Great Britain and the U.S. government, just as they
control the corporations, banks (and Congress, Parliament and Knesset).
These men had both profits and the security of Israel on their minds -- the
security of Israel gave the 9-11 operation a moral justification that
otherwise was lacking in these men's motivations. Please comment.

I hope other people are reading your letters and the responses of J. Austin
and myself to them. It is my belief that intelligent people of good will
who are possessed of all the facts cannot help but come to a meeting of
minds if they stick to it.

Dick Eastman

----- Original Message -----

From: Leslie Schwartz <mailto:lhs_emf@pacbell.net>

To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:04 AM

Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie
Schwartz, Dick Eastman

Further your contention;

Sorry, but that Is (respectfully) ridiculous on its face.

Later …

Leslie

_____

----- Original Message -----

From: Leslie Schwartz <mailto:lhs_emf@pacbell.net>

To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:17 PM

Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

We are solving a case where the government (which ordinarily would
investigate the crime) is itself the guilty party -- and we must work back
to find all the people/motives/methods behind the crime.

Leslie

Dick Eastman

Yakima, Washington

Every man is responsible to every other man.

_____

Scott, PLEASE! Note that the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is
pointed out. One is NOT the other.

Kevin

Scott Peden <scotpeden@cruzithero.com> wrote:

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own
research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
other stuff he wrote.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that
could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days
later?

To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some scientific fact, you’d have to
know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with
the data we have gathered.

They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they
rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
happened.

I don't understand that either

I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for years, that
there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and no one
knew what it was, much of it was after hours.

I use to be a building demolition junkie, I’ve seen hundreds of film clips
on this, I seen more than a few in person.

Fire didn’t take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition did.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?

That is the door to the slaughter house.

Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can’t verify as truth yourself
and that is where you are headed.

Scott

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I don't understand that either

Really, I didn't hear that.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:09:34 EDT
From: NoRedCoats@aol.com
Subject: Re: Do Mexicans have Permits For Protests of 50K to 500,000 ...

So the Boss in Vegas is hiring lower wage people illegally. Union Bosses and
Corporate giants would like nothing better than to keep the middle class
weak and fighting over bones on the work floor. Could it be that those in charge
have been taking the approach of Let it Happen or Help it Happen regarding
immigration, to cause the internal bickering?! Legal and Illegal are buzz
words to divide people as we all know the taking of this land from sea to shining
sea was Illegal to begin with. Now it's taking land and resources from the
middle east and eyeing Venezuela which will soon announce through OPEC that it
has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia. See _palast@gregpalast.com_
(mailto:palast@gregpalast.com)

We do need to fix and tighten up all our borders not just from immigrants
but as sound national security policy. This immigration questions has put
millions of potential progressive voters and activist's on the streets and can be
a boon to the overall progressive movement if it is taken advantage of. Thank
you hard ass Republicans. Let's not drop the ball now. All I know is that we
cannot afford to create a new Diary of Ann Frank or should I say Maria
Garcia!

In my humble opinion......Coats

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:33:49 -0400
From: ranger116@webtv.net
Subject: CharliSheen onABC Jimmy Kimmel TV Show Fri April 14 12:05 EST+9/11++

CharliSheen onABC Jimmy Kimmel TV Show Fri April 14 12:05 EST+9/11++

ABC.com: Jimmy Kimmel LIVE Home
Address:http://abc.go.com/primetime/jimmykimmel/

``````````````````````````````````````````````
One 911 Mystery Solved! Flight 77 Videotape Shown!
Address:http://www.rense.com/general70/vidshown.htm

``````````````````````````````````````````````
Physicist says Thermite felled WTC | Deseret Morning News Web edition
Address:http://deseretnews.com/dn/print/1%2C1442%2C635198488%2C00.html

``````````````````````````````````````````````
Sensing change, migrants rush to border - U.S. Security - MSNBC.com
Address:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12291035/

``````````````````````````````````````````````
The art of War - Scott Ritter Former Iraq weapons inspector
Address:http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/ritter/

``````````````````````````````````````````````
Hispanic Leaders Brag About Anti-White Hate, Racism
Address:http://www.rense.com/general70/ana.htm

``````````````````````````````````````````````
Let the politically correct govt brainwashed americans (small a) know
that we will kill them if they participate in destroying this country by
going along with the govt.censorship to keep from hurting the feelings
of people in the USA illegally.

Student fights write-up for showing U.S. flag

Address:http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20060413-9999-7m13flag.html

``````````````````````````````````````````````
illegal alien heralded after not leaving and found burglarizing.
Address:http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/13/D8GV8O5G2.html

``````````````````````````````````````````````

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Perna <savefreedom2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: CENSORING EMAILS

RE: CENSORING EMAILS

AMEN!!!!!!

The CAPCHA censorship window is installed on the main Yahoo mail server.
It means nothing that you can post from somewhere else, EXCEPT that the CAPCHA censorship is not there YET.
The Department of Home land INSecurity's "filter" is in Yahoo, Google, AOL, and many ISP's.
It comes from the protocols that were developed from guidelines from
The Department of Home land INSecurity.
The Internet Service Provider is now being told that they are now regulated by the Federal Communications Commission; which in turn, receives guidelines from the
Department of Homeland Security. OF COURSE there is no legitimate
justification for Federal Communications Commission regulation of the
internet; since it does not use shared air ways.
The summation of all of this is clandestine censorship of the internet.
IF WE DO NOTHING IT WILL BE EXPANDED UNTIL IT CENSORS EVERYTHING.

The most important thing that I have learned from dealing with it is that
every message which has ever triggered this CAPCHA censorship window once ; almost always triggers this "glitch" every time that it is sent. Even a REPLY to such a message will trigger the CAPCHA censorship window UNLESS the censored message is trimmed out. ALMOST ALL of these messages were critical of something that the Department of Homeland Security had done, or failed to do.

Marci <tymetobattle2@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yahoo Customer care,
It is getting very frustrating trying to send email from our yahoo email account.
I am requesting, when we try to send group emails, that you stop censoring our email.
These messages that we get (posted below) are not acceptable. We should not have to go through this crap over and over trying to get messages posted to our groups.
If this censoring continues, I will drop all my yahoo groups and move to MSN groups. And will encourage all other yahoo group owners to do like wise.
Your immediate attention to this matter is requested.
Marci

Marci <tymetobattle2@verizon.net> I found this message in my "bulk mail folder", treated as spam,
but this is actually political censorship.
EVEN A REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE,
FROM THE MAIN YAHOO SERVER,
WILL TRIGGER THE CAPCHA CENSORSHIP WINDOW.
The message has been trimmed out to avoid the key word censorship.
CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER AND THE ARCHIVES OF THIS GROUP.

The URLS FOR THIS MESSAGE ARE:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericansforMassDeportation/message/5066
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CFIRDallasForum/message/3104
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citizensagainstillegalaliens/message/9776
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CloseTheBorders/message/4400
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IllegalAliensInCalifornia/message/4290
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/immigrationrevolt/message/4106

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michael-Savage/message/7606
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minutemencalifornia/message/2786
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/patriots/message/21187
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stop_illegals_now/message/4785
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/txminutemen/message/3881

SEE NOTES ON Censorship tactics on THE INTERNET
When you are a member of an egroup,
you can watch the censorship happen before your very own eyes.
HERE IS What is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN:
You send a message to the group, and you get your own message back,
because you are one of the members of the group.
HERE IS what SOMETIMES DOES HAPPEN:
I sent a message to the group, and did NOT get that message back.
I checked to see if it was a moderated group,
and the message HAD not yet been approved.
Sometimes I sent a test message, and the test message was delivered.
Then I found that the censored message had been marked as "spam",
and put into the "spam" folder.
Interestingly enough, there are only three messages that I have ever sent;
which almost always triggered this "glitch".
ALL of these messages were critical of something that the Department of Homeland Security had done.
Now what about the strange problems in just getting the message OUT?
FIRST I sent a message ANNOUNCING that the censored message was
about to be sent, within five minutes.
THEN I sent the censored message.
I got LOTS of emails back from people;
who got the announcement,
but did NOT get the censored message.

Below you will see a few of the problems,
that I encountered trying to sent the censored message
NONE of the things, that you see below, EVER happened,
while sending the ANNOUNCEMENT.
THESE THINGS HAPPENED ALMOST EVERY SINGLE TIME,
THAT I TRIED TO SEND
THE CENSORED MESSAGE.
Just a few of the censorship tactics that I saw
1. AFTER SENDING A FEW OF THESE MESSAGES, WHILE TRYING TO GO BACK TO
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
I GOT THIS:
We're Sorry... The database is unavailable at the moment.
Please try again in a few minutes. If you continue to experience trouble, please contact our Customer Care team. We apologize for this inconvenience.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THEN AFTER I GOT BACK IN I RUN INTO TO NUMEROUS OTHER
DELAYS, AND FRUSTRATIONS.

Here are a few examples:

Send - Verify To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Character String Verification Error You need to pass the verification test to send any more email.
Your message has not been sent and will not be saved.
Back to Mail Home

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message Viewing Error Sorry, but we can't display the message you are trying to view. This error usually occurs when you are trying to access a message that has been moved or deleted.
Please return to the appropriate folder view (Inbox, a personal folder, etc.) and try to select the message from there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send - Verify
To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <Administrator@hcm-pg.com.my>
To: <savefreed0m2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Symantec Mail Security detected prohibited content in a message sent from your address (SYM:11260357340999701084)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send - Verify
To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Send - Verify To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a problem: There was a temporary problem in sending your message. Please try again.
Your message has not been sent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The page cannot be displayed The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings.
---------------------------------
Please try the following:

Click the Refresh button, or try again later.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.

To check your connection settings, click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the Connections tab, click Settings. The settings should match those provided by your local area network (LAN) administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).
If your Network Administrator has enabled it, Microsoft Windows can examine your network and automatically discover network connection settings.
If you would like Windows to try and discover them,
click Detect Network Settings
Some sites require 128-bit connection security. Click the Help menu and then click About Internet Explorer to determine what strength security you have installed.
If you are trying to reach a secure site, make sure your Security settings can support it. Click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the Advanced tab, scroll to the Security section and check settings for SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.
Click the Back button to try another link.

Cannot find server or DNS Error
Internet Explorer
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Connection Refused The attempt to connect to the remote server has been refused by the remote server. This may occur if the remote server is too busy at this time or if you are not authorized to access the remote server.
---------------------------------------

Send - Verify
To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Continue

Send - Verify To finish sending this message and help us fight spam, please enter the character string as it is shown in the box below.
Trouble seeing this image? Character string shown: [input]
Why do I have to do this? This step helps Yahoo! prevent spammers from using Yahoo! Mail, and helps to ensure that your email will be delivered.
Character string verification technology developed in collaboration with the Captcha Project at Carnegie Mellon University.

__________________________________________________

YOUR ISP might not have YET installed the Department of Home land INSecurity's "filter".
Also, the filter is installed on
the main Yahoo Mail Server. For the time being, it does not block messages posted for other locations, including posts from the groups web page, although these messages often still go into the spam folder.
It is too late to argue that it does not exist. Hundreds of people have tested this by tryng to post CERTAIN specific messages from the main Yahoo Mail Server.
These are a few of the URLS for a few of these CERTAIN specific messages:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOfSpeechNow/message/2

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOfSpeechNow/message/3

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOfSpeechNow/message/6

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOfSpeechNow/message/8

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOfSpeechNow/message/48

Freedom of speech - Use it or lose it

When they took away the 4th Amendment,
we were quiet,
because we didn't deal drugs.

When they took away the 6th Amendment,
we were quiet,
because we were innocent.

When they took away the 2nd Amendment,
we were quiet,
because we don't own guns.

Now they have taking away the 1st Amendment,
and very soon,
if we continue to be quiet,
we will have no choice,
but to be continue to be quiet.

"mad as hell and not going to take it anymore"

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:40:11 -0700
From: APFN <apfn@apfn.org>
Subject: RE: Scientific Panel on 911: "Terror attacks of 9/11 were faked;

[This message is not in displayable format]

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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:02:01 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

From: Leslie Schwartz
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] I rest my case. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting Leslie Schwartz, Dick Eastman

Disk,

You're offering your assertions as proof. It's not persuasive and it does not lead you to the facts.
I know that you are putting a great effort into this and I do not want to disparage that, there is a lot of truth that has not been uncovered, and I want to know more of the truth too, but ware are not going to get there by presuming broad unproven assumptions as the basis for finding more of the truth.

Leslie

-----

I offer the Pentagon attack evidence. http://bedoper.com etc. which proves that the Boeing did not hit the Pentagon. Now given that fact, what are we to make of the other fact that Rumsfeld and others in the Pentagon began "acting the cover-up" from day one. WHat do we make of the fact that Wolfowitz of the Pentagon was calling for attacks on Afganistan and Iraq immediately following the attacks? What do we make of the fact that Collin Powell was in India telling people that the US would be acting militarily against Afganistan by October 2001 way back in Spring of 2001? So the evidents points to a false-flag operation and the false-flag operation and their own behavior implicates that DoD Neo-con civilian leadership. Then we look at the backgrounds of the men who were at the Pentagon in the months leading up to 9-11 -- Perle, WOlfowitz, Kissinger especially -- Perle with connections to the Rothschilds, Wolfowitz who would later head the IMF, Kissinger who has links to the Rockefellers and China, and Feith, and Zakheim and others. Rumsfeld could not have conducted 9-11 without Wolfowitz being part of it -- and Wolfowitz could not have been part of it without the very powerful men he placed around himself at the Pentagon Defense Policy Board (Kissinger, Perle, Feith etc. -- including Gingrich -- a Rockefeller asset) -- And look what 9-11 was used for -- to take out Afganistan (for China, for druglords and the bankers who receive their revenues); to take out Iraq (for oil men, for globalists, and for Zionists) -- I see all these players together -- but Mossad as being absolutely essential --

and Israel I see as responsible, but the average Israeli no more responsible than you or I for what Bush-Cheney-Neocons have done.

Don't box me into saying that only Zionism was a motive9-11 as a provocateur operation -- but it was the "highest" motive in the minds of many of the (Jewish) men that had a part in it.

You say I am putting out assertions and not evidence. But I can't put out my evidence -- the evidence that has run by me is too much for me to handle -- not to mention the evidence that others have been investigating in areas that I have not touched and no little about -- and, yes, my evidence and deductions and criticisms of others arguments are available on the newsgroups and yahoogroups to anyone who wants to review them -- I have "shown all my work" from the very beginning. More than a few people became 9-11 sceptics / no-Boeing-hit-the-Pentagon people after examining the photos I assembled as evidence.

Meanwhile I will stick to the line of proof that I know is conclusive and readily understood and let people draw implications from that (as above).

Something that I should make explicit: The fact that many 9-11 perpetrators were motivated by Zionism does not mean that "Zionism" is guilty -- or that the crime is somehow inherent in Zionism -- merely that some men murdered for Zionism as other misguided men have murdered for love.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.

p.s. People are telling me that my letters are going
to the "spam" files of yahoo mail accounts -- in
addition to being blocked by AOL filters.

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 01:41:45 +0100
From: "yahoo" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Neocon: Iran will have Nuke in Sixteen Days

Meaningful Consequences Equals Dead Iranians,Rumsfeld Sends MEK Terrorists into Iran

Neocon: Iran will have Nuke in Sixteen Days

Wednesday April 12th 2006, 5:35 pm

First it was ten years, then it was five or six, and now it is sixteen days. Iran will have a nuke in sixteen days and no doubt they will nuke Israel on the seventeenth day, if we are to believe the mendacious neocons.

"Iran, which is defying United Nations Security Council demands to cease its nuclear program, may be capable of making a nuclear bomb within 16 days if it goes ahead with plans to install thousands of centrifuges at its Natanz plant, a U.S. State Department official said," Bloomberg reports, or rather repeats verbatim, no questions asked, as corporate media hacks never ask questions and take every whopper dispensed by the neocons at face value.

Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, that is to say a Straussian neocon flunky, does the math. "Natanz was constructed to house 50,000 centrifuges.. Using those 50,000 centrifuges they could produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in 16 days."

It's obvious what is going on here. Iran is thumbing its nose at the arrogance of the Straussian neocons and their obedient lapdog, the United Nations. "Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said yesterday the country had succeeded in enriching uranium on a small scale for the first time, using 164 centrifuges. That announcement defies demands by the UN Security Council that Iran shut down its nuclear program this month."

It is forbidden for Iran to develop nuclear energy-or even a measly bomb-but Israel is allowed to have around 400 nukes.

France made the mistake of helping Israel manufacture its nuclear program in the late 50s. It was duped in the process.

"Trouble arose in May 1960, when France began to pressure Israel to make the project public and to submit to international inspections of the site, threatening to withhold the reactor fuel unless they did. President de Gaulle was concerned that the inevitable scandal following any revelations about French assistance with the project, especially the chemical reprocessing plant, would have negative repercussions for France's international position, already on shaky ground because of its war in Algeria," explains the Federation of American Scientists.

"At a subsequent meeting with Ben-Gurion, de Gaulle offered to sell Israel fighter aircraft in exchange for stopping work on the reprocessing plant, and came away from the meeting convinced that the matter was closed. It was not. Over the next few months, Israel worked out a compromise. France would supply the uranium and components already placed on order and would not insist on international inspections. In return, Israel would assure France that they had no intention of making atomic weapons, would not reprocess any plutonium, and would reveal the existence of the reactor, which would be completed without French assistance. In reality, not much changed-French contractors finished work on the reactor and reprocessing plant, uranium fuel was delivered and the reactor went critical in 1964."

Of course, the Israelis deceived the French and everybody else and began cranking out nukes like flapjacks a few years later.

"As early as 8 December 1960, the CIA issued a report outlining Dimona's implications for nuclear proliferation, and the CIA station in Tel Aviv had determined by the mid-1960s that the Israeli nuclear weapons program was an established and irreversible fact."

It is said the Iranians are deceiving the International Atomic Energy Agency, and yet Israel went out of its way to hide its nuke program. "United States inspectors visited Dimona seven times during the 1960s, but they were unable to obtain an accurate picture of the activities carried out there, largely due to tight Israeli control over the timing and agenda of the visits. The Israelis went so far as to install false control room panels and to brick over elevators and hallways that accessed certain areas of the facility. The inspectors were able to report that there was no clear scientific research or civilian nuclear power program justifying such a large reactor-circumstantial evidence of the Israeli bomb program-but found no evidence of 'weapons related activities' such as the existence of a plutonium reprocessing plant."

In 1986, the Israeli nuclear technician Mordechai Vanunu revealed for the world the extent of Israel's secret and illegal nuclear program. For revealing the truth, Vanunu spent 18 years in an Israeli prison. He is not allowed to leave Israel and essentially remains a prisoner.

Israel has around 400 hydrogen weapons, nukes 100 to 1,000 stronger power than a regular nuclear bomb. According to retired US Army Colonel Warner D. Farr, M.D., Israel is the fifth largest nuclear superpower in the world.

In the 1973 "Yom Kippur War," Israel used nuclear blackmail to force Kissinger and Nixon to airlift supplies (see John Steinbach, Israeli Weapons of Mass Destruction: a Threat to Peace). In addition, Israel has used its "dependence" on nuclear weapons to fleece the American taxpayer.

Click to join catapultthepropaganda

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catapultthepropaganda/join

Click to join openmindopencodenews

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openmindopencodenews/join

Amos Rubin, economic adviser to former PM Yitzhak Shamir, said "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large.

To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to 3 billion per year in U.S. aid" (Mark Gaffney, Dimona, The Third Temple: The Story Behind the Vanunu Revelation, Brattleboro, VT, 1989, Amana Books, p. 165; see previous link).

"The Israeli nuclear arsenal has profound implications for the future of peace in the Middle East, and indeed, for the entire planet. It is clear from [the late] Israel Shahak that Israel has no interest in peace except that which is dictated on its own terms, and has absolutely no intention of negotiating in good faith to curtail its nuclear program or discuss seriously a nuclear-free Middle East," Steinbach concludes.

In fact, Israel has no intention of ever signing a nuclear proliferation treaty and has worked nuclear blackmail and threats into its on-going effort to balkanize and dominate the Middle East.

"Whoever believes that Israel will ever sign the UN Convention prohibiting the proliferation of nuclear weapons. is day dreaming," Ze'ev Shiff, an Israeli military expert, wrote for Haaretz.

"The moral and political meaning of nuclear weapons is that states which renounce their use are acquiescing to the status of Vassal states. All those states which feel satisfied with possessing conventional weapons alone are fated to become vassal states," Munya Mardoch, Director of the Israeli Institute for the Development of Weaponry, declared in 1994 (see previous link).

Obviously, Iran understands this "vassal sate" dynamic all too well and that is why it may develop a nuclear bomb-certainly not in sixteen days, as Stephen Rademaker warns, but eventually.

Rademaker is married to Danielle Pletka, vice-president for Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, the criminal organization where Bush gets his "minds." Pletka is described as an early neocon and associate of Martin Indyk, the former U.S. Ambassador to Israel, founding executive director of the criminal Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and research director for AIPAC.

Birds of a feather plot mass murder together.

Chances are slim to none the United States under the rule of perfidious Straussian neocons will allow Iran to develop a nuclear bomb and thus enjoy the untouchable status North Korea apparently enjoys (notice the neocons are not plotting to invade or shock and awe North Korea because this will result in widespread destruction of South Korea and even Japan).

Thus we can expect the neocons to launch their long-planned shock and awe campaign in the near future. It is impossible to predict an exact or even approximate date. But if the escalating rhetoric and saber-rattling-prompted by hysterical demands emanating almost weekly from Israel and echoed and amplified by the Straussian neocons-are any indication, it will be sooner before later.

Addendum

More- http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=332

Rumsfeld Sends MEK Terrorists into Iran

Thursday April 13th 2006, 11:22 am

It makes sense for the neocons to use the terrorist organization Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK) in Iran. MEK is odd, very odd, and murderous-

the cultish group blends Marxism and Islam. It killed US military personnel and US civilians working on defense projects in Tehran in the 1970s. "In 1981, the MEK detonated bombs in the head office of the Islamic Republic Party and the Premier's office, killing some 70 high-ranking Iranian officials, including chief Justice Ayatollah Mohammad Beheshti, President Mohammad-Ali Rajaei, and Premier Mohammad-Javad Bahonar," notes the Federation of American Scientists. It was kicked out of Iran after the revolution and was embraced by Saddam Hussein and was put to work suppressing the Shia and Kurdish uprisings in southern and northern Iraq. "In 2000 and 2001, the MEK was involved regularly in mortar attacks and hit-and run raids on Iranian military and law-enforcement units and government buildings near the Iran-Iraq border, although MEK terrorism in Iran declined throughout the remainder of 2001..

The future of the MEK forces remains undetermined with Coalition forces."

Read the full post

Meaningful Consequences Equals Dead Iranians

Wednesday April 12th 2006, 10:29 am

Now that John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt, academic dean of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, have been effectively marginalized and portrayed as raving anti-Semites by the corporate media for their lukewarm assessment of AIPAC and the Straussian neocons as Israel Firsters, the road ahead, leading to shock and awe against the people of Iran, is wide open.

"Leading the charge has been a familiar group of neoconservatives, such as former Defense Policy Board (DPB) chairman Richard Perle and former Central Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey, who championed the war in Iraq but who have increasingly focused their energies over the past year on building support for 'regime change' and, if necessary, military action against Iran if it does not abandon its nuclear program," writes Jim Lobe, journalist for Inter Press Service.

Read the full post

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Discussion about 09/11/2001

Friday, April 14, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1225

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