Discussion about 09/11/2001: [911TruthAction] Digest Number 1222

Thursday, April 13, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1222

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
2. Seymour M. Hersh | The Iran Plans + Bush Regime Theam Song + Oil $262
From: ranger116@webtv.net
3. Doomsday Coming For U.S. Forces In Iraq? -- truth of military "scuttlebutt" is now being born out
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
4. America's war on the web -- IMAGINE a world where wars are fought over the internet ...
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
5. Fw: Israeli Nukes = Nuclear Proliferation
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
6. Fw: War on Iran, for Israel? Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
7. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
8. Re: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
9. RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
10. [Fwd: COUNTERPUNCH: Flight 77? Talk about HOAX!]
From: APFN <apfn@apfn.org>
11. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
12. Physicist says heat substance felled WTC
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
13. Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION
From: "Pat and Kelly Team Real Estate" <kelly@patandkelly.com>
14. Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION
From: NoRedCoats@aol.com
15. Reply to TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
16. Reply to TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
17. Re: Anyone working on activist projects here?
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
18. The Fraud of 9/11 - tvnl news updte
From: "reggie501" <reggie501@optonline.net>
19. Re: Anyone working on activist projects here?
From: mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com>
20. Cellphones vs Airphones on 93
From: "catsears_2000" <catsears_2000@yahoo.com>
21. Re: Urgent Request! TO ANYONE OR EVERYONE!
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
22. RE: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
23. RE: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
24. Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
25. A Day in the Life: 4/12/6
From: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION

What made you realize there was something drastically wrong with the 9/11 story to which it brought you here?

just curious

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904

---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:38:33 -0400
From: ranger116@webtv.net
Subject: Seymour M. Hersh | The Iran Plans + Bush Regime Theam Song + Oil $262

Seymour M. Hersh | The Iran Plans + Bush Regime Theam Song + Oil $262 a
barrell ?

Seymour M. Hersh | The Iran Plans
Address:http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040906Y.shtml

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Oil $262 a barrel $6-$8 a gallon ?

What ever happened to all those Texas oil wells that were shut down
and plugged up back in about 1975-80 to wait for the price of oil that
had fallen to about $20 a barrel to go back up so they could make More
profit selling it later ?
This situation caused thousands of oil rig workers who had just
bought new houses in housing projects built in the area just for them,
To put their keys in their mailboxes and walk away !

Where is that oil Now ?

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New revelations in Abramoff probe - Politics - MSNBC.com
Address:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12272972/

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Bush Regime theme song
http://64.226.238.78/music/liarliar.mp3

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Horrific Consequences Of 'Guest Worker' Program
Address:http://www.rense.com/general70/horridf.htm

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Election Fraude
Phone-Jamming Records Point to White House - Yahoo! News
Address:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_go_pr_wh/election_phone_jamming

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Bush appears to lose another Iraq war ally in Italy's Berlusconi
Address:http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/11/060411165650.w5vtcv00.html

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Mr. Bush, We Know What You Did That Summer! September 11th, 2001
Address:http://tvnewslies.org/blog/?p=351

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:45:46 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Doomsday Coming For U.S. Forces In Iraq? -- truth of military "scuttlebutt" is now being born out

Signs of the Times for Tue, 11 Apr 2006

Signs Editorial:
Is Doomsday Coming For U.S. Forces In Iraq?
Magus
March 27, 2006 Updated April 8, 2006
Signs of the Times

Having many cherished friends, from many walks of life, a good listener hears many different voices from many different sources. Let this listener share with you those things he has been told of late from many whom he dearly loves and does not want to lose. They, all those human beings who dare to Be and to Love, in this brief whirl of endless doubts we think of as life, are precious, and the Shadow now falling over far too many of them on the blood soaked sands of Iraq seems very dark and dire.

It is not yet possible to provide enough hard data to fully support the following speculations. It is all told by way of "scuttlebutt" from rank and file, military-on-the-job rumors, and old fashioned soldiers' and sailors' gossip and intuitions. It is offered in that "for what it's worth" category, in the hopes that it will make a few more folks think about the hell on Earth that is the day to day reality for U.S. "boots on the ground" in Iraq.

In general, my experiences over many years of close friendships with honorable, career military and National Guard members, from among both officers and non-commissioned personnel, have proven that the "scuttlebutt" is often more accurate than the official line being handed out from the current CentCom. That was certainly true in Vietnam, and the similarities between Iraq and "The Nam" are abundant.

Remember, however, this is only "scuttlebutt." Do not take it as fact but as food for thought, and perhaps as a warning.

In Iraq, many, perhaps most, of the American forces in the forward operations areas are essentially pinned down. They stay huddled for safety within their small, fortified (as best possible) bunkers and camps, both rural and urban, emerging only upon direct commands, to conduct their assigned patrols and sweeps while looking first and ever more exclusively to their own survival in all regards. They are literally stressed and terrified out of their minds, and most of them are also physically ill, many seriously so, from the effects of Depleted Uranium poisoning. Many of them, especially with their psychopathic "leaders" giving them almost carte blanche to do such, have taken on a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" modus operendi, at all times and in all circumstances when they're outside of their bunkers.

These days, the areas they "patrol and sweep" are growing smaller, and their unit actions becoming shorter and more perilous, as they go about the impossible task of "clearing" each day's designated areas of IEDs and "insurgents." The conditions of their daily lives are deplorable. The rate of suicides among them is astronomical, setting an all time record for any U.S. military deployments, in any war or other combat action ever. Some of the oldest among National Guard members now in Iraq were forced back into active duty after having been retired for years. Their ages go up to and include some members who are in their fifties and even a few field medics and nurses in their early sixties. Thus some now in Iraq were there, in The Nam. They know of what they speak, and they say it is even worse in Iraq now than it was in Vietnam in the months before the end.

In many of the Forward Operations Bases or Camps, American soldiers do not dependably receive enough daily drinking water, let alone water enough for washing, and for many there are still no regular showers. For the most remote locations, there are no showers at all, not even with the foul, recycled and often unsafe "yellow water" that has become notorious among U.S. troops' Iraq war tales. Many bivouacs have no air conditioning and most are in areas where there is no electricity for most of the time, which is true throughout nearly all of Iraq outside of the Green Zone.

They are supposedly rotated out of the grueling forward positions to the large, new bases already finished, (almost 8 of them now) every two to four weeks, but the operative phrase on that is always "if possible." Their successful rotation to more tolerable conditions largely depends on the current "heat" of the resistence around a particular forward base. Some units deployed, especially in the more remote and heavily resistence dominated areas, have now been virtual prisoners, out in the deserts, for several months.

Rumor has it that upwards of 5,500 U.S. combat troops have walked out of Iraq, into adjacent countries such as Turkey, Iran and Syria, and have kept on going from there to places in Europe and elsewhere. They were largely from among those units stuck in the farthest, most isolated positions, and the scuttlebutt says that the Iraqi resistence fighters have even helped some of them to get across the borders and have provided them with food, water, contacts and money for the journey. On several occassions, by the time the transport helicopters came in to take them out to one of the big new bases for a break, the entire unit was gone but for one or two die hards.

It was the U.S. occupation's own "back" that really got broken at Fallujah. Please note the steadily shrinking sizes and numbers of cleverly named U.S. military assaults and initiatives that have taken place since then. The annihilation of Fallujah, and the U.S.'s massive slaughter of innocent civilians there, increased support for the resistence to almost 100% among the Iraqi people. It is most accurate to say that the American combat forces in Iraq are now largely fighting a defensive war. Those with a knowledge of military tactics and history will recognize that to be the worst possible position an invading and then occupying army can get into. To have that be the case this long after the initial invasion, when neither the troops nor their equipment are able to operate at anywhere near to peak condition and efficiency, is even worse.

In addition to the other shortages the troops on the front lines face in these bases, they are also short on ammunition. Despite all of the Bush administration's propganda to the contrary, the resistence owns the highways and roads of Iraq, with the possible exceptions of a very few and very shaky stretches in and around the "Green Zone" and, maybe, maybe not, the main airport road out of Baghdad. The military's ability to resupply its forward troops is rapidly approaching nil. The remote troops are being kept alive by air drops delivering almost everything that does reach them now.

Unfortunately, the anti-aircraft fire from the resistence, always present and heavy, from at least small arms, surrounds the U.S. forward bases and is especially strong near the most remote and smallest ones. For that reason, the drops of supplies to forward combat units are not as precise as they need to be in order to keep supply levels adequate, and some things like diesel fuel, gasoline and ammunition cannot be air dropped regularly or at all. Again, despite the official reports, the recent increases in helicopter "crashes" shows the growing prowess of the Iraqi fighters in bringing them down.

Note too that, except for numerous and frequently fatal vehicular "accidents," there has been scant media or press mention lately of the U.S. military's huge convoys of transport trucks that were formerly hauling supplies to the U.S. troops from the depots and distribution centers in Kuwait and at the Baghdad airport and the new air bases. They have not been rolling very reliably since just after Fallujah. The U.S. troop and supply convoys cannot safely travel in Iraq these days, nor keep any kind of a regular schedule, partly due to the increasing resistence skills in stopping them by causing roll overs and other "accidents," and partly because the vehicles themselves are worn out beyond any safe usage.

The military's equipment is all used up, and there is not a steady stream of replacement materiels coming in, quite the contrary. While the mercenary companies have grown richer than Croesius, the National Guard, Reserves and regular military have gone broke. In person-power, weapons, vehicles, tanks, ammunition, body armor, ordinance, and all else, the U.S. military is drained dry and used up, even to being short on replacement uniforms for active duty combat troops. U.S. soldiers are often caught on camera these days in heavily patched uniforms. Close scrutiny of the next cable or network news clips of frontline soldiers may prove quite revealing.

More- http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20060411_IsDoomsdayComingForUSForcesInIraq.php

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:51:11 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: America's war on the web -- IMAGINE a world where wars are fought over the internet ...

www.MiddleEast.Org

NEOCONS TAKE PENTAGON TO WAR
WITH INTERNET AND MEDIA

"The Pentagon also wants to target a 'broader set of select
foreign media and audiences', with $161m set aside to help
place pro-US articles in overseas media"

MER - MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 11 April: This article was published a few days ago in the SUNDAY HERALD in Scotland. It reports on a very important and new aspect of the American NEOCON agenda now being implemented by the Pentagon with its whopping budget and capabilities. The CIA and other U.S. departments are thought to be involved though stealth tactics make it difficult to penetrate to the core of what is really happening. Bottom line: This is INFORMATION WARFARE and deception not only against the perceived enemies of the Americans but against their own citizens and allies as well.

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America's war on the web

While the US remains committed to hunting down al-Qaeda operatives, it is now
taking the battle to new fronts. Deep within the Pentagon, technologies are being
deployed to wage the war on terror on the internet, in newspapers and even
through mobile phones. Investigations editor Neil Mackay reports

IMAGINE a world where wars are fought over the internet; where TV broadcasts and newspaper reports are designed by the military to confuse the population; and where a foreign armed power can shut down your computer, phone, radio or TV at will.
In 2006, we are just about to enter such a world. This is the age of information warfare, and details of how this new military doctrine will affect everyone on the planet are contained in a report, entitled The Information Operations Roadmap, commissioned and approved by US secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld and seen by the Sunday Herald.

The Pentagon has already signed off $383 million to force through the document's recommendations by 2009. Military and intelligence sources in the US talk of "a revolution in the concept of warfare". The report orders three new developments in America's approach to warfare:

lFirstly, the Pentagon says it will wage war against the internet in order to dominate the realm of communications, prevent digital attacks on the US and its allies, and to have the upper hand when launching cyber-attacks against enemies.

lSecondly, psychological military operations, known as psyops, will be at the heart of future military action. Psyops involve using any media - from newspapers, books and posters to the internet, music, Blackberrys and personal digital assistants (PDAs) - to put out black propaganda to assist government and military strategy. Psyops involve the dissemination of lies and fake stories and releasing information to wrong-foot the enemy.

lThirdly, the US wants to take control of the Earth's electromagnetic spectrum, allowing US war planners to dominate mobile phones, PDAs, the web, radio, TV and other forms of modern communication. That could see entire countries denied access to telecommunications at the flick of a switch by America.

Freedom of speech advocates are horrified at this new doctrine, but military planners and members of the intelligence community embrace the idea as a necessary development in modern combat.

Human rights lawyer John Scott, who chairs the Scottish Centre for Human Rights, said: "This is an unwelcome but natural development of what we have seen. I find what is said in this document to be frightening, and it needs serious parliamentary scrutiny."

Crispin Black - who has worked for the Joint Intelligence Committee, and has been an Army lieutenant colonel, a military intelligence officer, a member of the Defence Intelligence Staff and a Cabinet Office intelligence analyst who briefed Number 10 - said he broadly supported the report as it tallied with the Pentagon's over-arching vision for "full spectrum dominance" in all military matters.

"I'm all for taking down al-Qaeda websites. Shutting down enemy propaganda is a reasonable course of action. Al-Qaeda is very good at [information warfare on the internet], so we need to catch up. The US needs to lift its game," he said.

This revolution in information warfare is merely an extension of the politics of the "neoconservative" Bush White House. Even before getting into power, key players in Team Bush were planning total military and political domination of the globe. In September 2000, the now notorious document Rebuilding America's Defences - written by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a think-tank staffed by some of the Bush presidency's leading lights - said that America needed a "blueprint for maintaining US global pre-eminence, precluding the rise of a great power-rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests".

The PNAC was founded by Dick Cheney, the vice-president; Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary; Bush's younger brother, Jeb; Paul Wolfowitz, once Rumsfeld's deputy and now head of the World Bank; and Lewis Libby, Cheney's former chief of staff, now indicted for perjury in America.

Rebuilding America's Defences also spoke of taking control of the internet. A heavily censored version of the document was released under Freedom of Information legislation to the National Security Archive at George Washington University in the US.

The report admits the US is vulnerable to electronic warfare. "Networks are growing faster than we can defend them," the report notes. "The sophistication and capability of . nation states to degrade system and network operations are rapidly increasing."

T he report says the US military's first priority is that the "department [of defence] must be prepared to 'fight the net'". The internet is seen in much the same way as an enemy state by the Pentagon because of the way it can be used to propagandise, organise and mount electronic attacks on crucial US targets. Under the heading "offensive cyber operations", two pages outlining possible operations are blacked out.

Next, the Pentagon focuses on electronic warfare, saying it must be elevated to the heart of US military war planning. It will "provide maximum control of the electromagnetic spectrum, denying, degrading, disrupting or destroying the full spectrum of communications equipment . it is increasingly important that our forces dominate the electromagnetic spectrum with attack capabilities". Put simply, this means US forces having the power to knock out any or all forms of telecommunications on the planet.

After electronic warfare, the US war planners turn their attention to psychological operations: "Military forces must be better prepared to use psyops in support of military operations." The State Department, which carries out US diplomatic functions, is known to be worried that the rise of such operations could undermine American diplomacy if uncovered by foreign states. Other examples of information war listed in the report include the creation of "Truth Squads" to provide public information when negative publicity, such as the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, hits US operations, and the establishment of "Humanitarian Road Shows", which will talk up American support for democracy and freedom.

The Pentagon also wants to target a "broader set of select foreign media and audiences", with $161m set aside to help place pro-US articles in overseas media.

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:51:55 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: Israeli Nukes = Nuclear Proliferation

6 April 2006

www.MiddleEast.Org

The ISRAELI NUCLEAR ARSENAL

MER - MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 6 April: The Americans and the
Europeans helped arm Israel over the years, so much so in fact that Israel
today is far stronger militarily than all the Arab countries combined.
Israel's weapons include a nuclear strike and nuclear deterrent
capability -- including missiles and submarines -- far beyond anything
anything any of the Arab or Muslim countries is even imagining at the
moment. Add to this Israeli reality that the Americans are now pushing
India into a growing military alliance that will help the Indians also build
a far greater arsenal of nuclear weapons.
This then is the real geo-political military context for the crisis
with Iran and for all the war quite public war threats from all sides. And
this is what senior Middle East correspondent David Hirst wrote about on
Tuesday in The Guardian.

If one side in a conflict goes nuclear,
the other is bound to follow suit

The Iranian crisis can only be understood as the inevitable result of
Israel's US-backed WMD monopoly in the region

David Hirst
Tuesday April 4, 2006
The Guardian

There is widespread international agreement that Iran's acquisition of
nuclear weapons is an alarming prospect, but very little attention is paid
to the most obvious, immediate reason why: that there is already a Middle
Eastern nuclear power, Israel, insistent on preserving its monopoly.
So the crisis has been foreseeable for decades; it would be automatically
triggered by the emergence of a second nuclear power, friendly or unfriendly
to the west. Iran is the unfriendliest possible, encouraging the widespread
assumption that it alone is responsible for creating the crisis - and
settling it. But is it?
It certainly isn't blameless. First, its nuclear arming would deal a major
blow to an already fraying international non-proliferation regime. Second,
it would involve a huge deceit. Third, the US divides actual or potential
nuclear powers into responsible and irresponsible ones. Iran would be
irresponsible, being already the worst of "rogue states".
Typically, a "rogue state", as well as being oppressive, ideologically
repugnant and anti-American, unites an aggressive nature with
disproportionate military strength, thereby posing a constant, exceptional
threat to an established regional order. What could now more emphatically
consign Iran to such company than its new president, with his calls to "wipe
Israel off the map"?
Yet, in nuclear terms in the Middle East, Israel is the original sinner.
Non- proliferation must be universal: if, in any zone of potential conflict,
one party goes nuclear, its adversaries can't be expected not to. No matter
how long ago it was, by violating that principle Israel would always bear a
responsibility for whatever happened later. Second, its deceit was no less
than Iran's, though, there being no non-proliferation treaty at the time, it
was only the US it deceived. Mindful of what Israel's mendacity portended,
the CIA warned in 1963 that, by enhancing its sense of security, nuclear
capacity would make Israel less, not more, conciliatory to the Arabs; it
would exploit its new "psychological advantages" to "intimidate" them.
Which, thirdly, points to the irresponsible use Israel has indeed made of
it. Sure, it always justified it as its "Samson option", its last recourse
against neighbours bent on destroying it. There is no such threat now; but
if there was once, or will be again, the question is why.
A major part of the answer is that on most counts except hostility to the US
Israel has always behaved like a "rogue state". It came into being as a
massive disrupter of the established Middle East order, through violence and
ethnic cleansing. Such a settler-state could only achieve true legitimacy,
true integration into a still-to-be-completed new order, by restoring the
Palestinian rights it violated in its creation and growth.
That, at bottom, is what the everlasting "peace process" is about. The world
has a broad definition of the settlement lying at the end of it. It doesn't
involve the full emancipation of an indigenous people that has been the norm
in European decolonisation; only a compromise vastly more onerous for the
defeated Palestinians than the Israelis.
But settlement never comes, because Israel resists even that compromise. Its
nuclear power, on top of its already overwhelming conventional superiority,
ensures that. Such irresponsible use of it is what Shimon Peres was alluding
to when he said that "acquiring a superior weapons system would mean the
possibility of using it for compellent purposes - that is, forcing the other
side to accept Israeli political demands". Or what Moshe Sneh, a leading
Israeli strategist, meant when he said: "I don't want the
Israeli-Palestinian negotiations to be held under the shadow of an Iranian
nuclear bomb." As if the Arabs haven't had to negotiate under the shadow of
an Israeli bomb these past four decades.
There are three ways the crisis can go. The first is that Israel insists on,
and achieves, the unchallenged perpetuation of its "original sin". For it
isn't so much "the world", as President Bush keeps saying, that finds a
nuclear Iran so intolerable, but the world on Israel's behalf; not the risk
that Iran will attack Israel that makes the crisis so dangerous, but that
Israel will attack Iran - or that the US will take on the job itself. In
effect, Israel's nuclear arsenal, or the protection of it, has become a
diplomatic instrument against its benefactor.
t is a legacy of America's own "original sin", that first, reluctant
acquiescence in a nuclear Israel, subsequently turned into uninhibited
endorsement of it by seemingly ever more pro-Israeli administrations. So
here is a superpower, wrote the US strategic analyst Mark Gaffney, so "blind
and stupid" as to let "another state, ie Israel, control its foreign
policy". And, in a brilliant study, he warned that a US assault on Iran
could end in a catastrophe comparable to the massacre of Roman legions at
Cannae by Hannibal's much inferior army. For in one field of military
technology, anti-ship missiles, Russia is streets ahead of the US. And
Iran's possession of the fearsome 3M-82 Moskit could turn the Persian Gulf
into a death trap for the US fleet. And sure enough, from the Bush
administration itself, the first hints have been coming that, given the
regional havoc Iran could indeed wreak, there may be nothing the US can do
to stop it going nuclear.
This points to a second way the crisis could go - with Israel obliged to
renounce its monopoly and the Middle East entering a cold-war-style "balance
of terror". It could be a stable one. Clearly, like Israel, the mullahs
would make irresponsible, political use of their nukes. But, like Israel's,
Iran's nuclear quest is essentially defensive, even if not in quite the same
fundamentally "existential" sense. Nothing could have more convinced it of
the need for an unconventional deterrent than the fate of that other "rogue
state", Saddam's Iraq, which the US had no qualms about attacking because it
didn't have one.
The third way - Iran's abandonment of its nuclear ambitions - would stand
its best chance of being accomplished if Israel were induced to do likewise;
not just because reciprocity is the essence of disarmament, but because it
would signify a fundamental change in America's whole approach to the
region.
And that might have positive effects beyond the nuclear. "There is only one
way," said the Israeli military analyst Ze'ev Schiff, "to avoid a nuclear
balance of terror: to use the time left, while we still have a monopoly in
this field, to make peace ... In the framework of peace, a nuclear-free zone
can be established." But that is the wrong way round.
To make peace, as the CIA foresaw, Israel doesn't need the intransigence
that absolute security brings, but the spirit of compromise that a judicious
dose of insecurity might. A utopian notion perhaps, with the world now so
focused on the villainy of Iran - yet better than a US onslaught that would
add so thick a layer to an already mountainous deposit of anti-western
feeling that Israel could barely hope ever to win acceptance in the region.
· David Hirst reported from the Middle East for the Guardian from 1963 to
2001

MID-EAST REALITIES - www.MiddleEast.Org
Phone: (202) 362-5266 Fax: (815) 366-0800
Email: MER@MiddleEast.Org
Copyright © 2006 MiddleEast.Org Mid-East Realities, All Rights
Rreserved

Free

The most honest, most comprehensive, and most mobilizing news and
analysis on the Middle East always comes from MER. It is indispensable!"
Robert Silverman - Salamanca, Spain

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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:52:59 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Fw: War on Iran, for Israel? Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker

From: "Peter Myers" <myers@cyberone.com.au>

April 10, 2006

(1) War to stop Iran from getting the bomb - SEYMOUR M. HERSH
(2) Another War for Israel? Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker

(1) War to stop Iran from getting the bomb - SEYMOUR M. HERSH

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:58:35 +1000 From: "Nadir & Angela Martello"
<amar5249@bigpond.net.au> From: Bahram Maskanian

U.S. - Looking Seriously - At Nuking Iran

- http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/US_Seriously_Nuking_Iran.html -

Would President Bush go to war to stop Tehran from getting the bomb?

- By SEYMOUR M. HERSH, The New Yorker - April 2006

http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/060417fa_fact

The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order to stop
Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine activities inside
Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack. Current and
former American military and intelligence officials said that Air Force planning
groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of American combat troops have
been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish
contact with anti-government thnic-minority groups. The officials say that
President Bush is determined to deny the Iranian regime the opportunity to begin
a pilot program, planned for this spring, to enrich uranium.

American and European intelligence agencies, and the International Atomic Energy
Agency (I.A.E.A.), agree that Iran is intent on developing the capability to
produce nuclear weapons. But there are widely differing estimates of how long
that will take, and whether diplomacy, sanctions, or military action is the best
way to prevent it. Iran insists that its research is for peaceful use only, in
keeping with the Nuclear on-Proliferation Treaty, and that it will not be
delayed or deterred.

There is a growing conviction among members of the United States military, and
in the international community, that President Bush's ultimate goal in the
nuclear confrontation with Iran is regime change. Iran's President, Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel
must be "wiped off the map." Bush and others in the White House view him as a
potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. "That's the
name they're using. They say, 'Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten
another world war?' "

A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the
Pentagon said that Bush was "absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the
bomb" if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do
"what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the
courage to do," and "that saving Iran is going to be his legacy."

One former defense official, who still deals with sensitive issues for the Bush
Administration, told me that the military planning was premised on a belief that
"a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership
and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government." He added, "I was
shocked when I heard it, and asked myself, 'What are they smoking?' "

The rationale for regime change was articulated in early March by Patrick
Clawson, an Iran expert who is the deputy director for research at the
Washington Institute for Near East Policy and who has been a supporter of
President Bush. "So long as Iran has an Islamic republic, it will have a
nuclear-weapons program, at least clandestinely," Clawson told the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee on March 2nd. "The key issue, herefore, is: How long
will the present Iranian regime last?"

When I spoke to Clawson, he emphasized that "this Administration is putting a
lot of effort into diplomacy." However, he added, Iran had no choice other than
to accede to America's demands or face a military attack. Clawson said that he
fears that Ahmadinejad "sees the West as wimps and thinks we will eventually
cave in. We have to be ready to deal with Iran if the crisis escalates." Clawson
said that he would prefer to rely on sabotage and other clandestine activities,
such as "industrial accidents." But, he said, it would be prudent to prepare for
a wider war, "given the way the Iranians are acting. This is not like planning
to invade Quebec."

One military planner told me that White House criticisms of Iran and the high
tempo of planning and clandestine activities amount to a campaign of "coercion"
aimed at Iran. "You have to be ready to go, and we'll see how they respond," the
officer said. "You have to really show a threat in order to get Ahmadinejad to
back down." He added, "People think Bush has been focussed on Saddam Hussein
since 9/11," but, "in my view, if you had to name one nation that was his focus
all the way along, it was Iran." (In response to detailed requests for comment,
the White House said that it would not comment on military planning but added,
"As the President has indicated, we are pursuing a diplomatic solution"; the
Defense Department also said that Iran was being dealt with through "diplomatic
channels" but wouldn't elaborate on that; the C.I.A. said that there were
"inaccuracies" in this account but would not specify them.)

"This is much more than a nuclear issue," one high-ranking diplomat told me in
Vienna. "That's just a rallying point, and there is still time to fix it. But
the Administration believes it cannot be fixed unless they control the hearts
and minds of Iran. The real issue is who is going to control the Middle East and
its oil in the next ten years."

A senior Pentagon adviser on the war on terror expressed a similar view. "This
White House believes that the only way to solve the problem is to change the
power structure in Iran, and that means war," he said. The danger, he said, was
that "it also reinforces the belief inside Iran that the only way to defend the
country is to have a nuclear capability." A military conflict that destabilized
the region could also increase the risk of terror: "Hezbollah comes into play,"
the adviser said, referring to the terror group that is considered one of the
world's most successful, and which is now a Lebanese political party with strong
ties to Iran. "And here comes Al Qaeda."

In recent weeks, the President has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans
for Iran with a few key senators and members of Congress, including at least one
Democrat. A senior member of the House Appropriations Committee, who did not
take part in the meetings but has discussed their content with his colleagues,
told me that there had been "no formal briefings," because "they're reluctant to
brief the minority. They're doing the Senate, somewhat selectively."

The House member said that no one in the meetings "is really objecting" to the
talk of war. "The people they're briefing are the same ones who led the charge
on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites
at once? How are you going to get deep enough?" (Iran is building facilities
underground.) "There's no pressure from Congress" not to take military action,
the House member added. "The only political pressure is from the guys who want
to do it." Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, "The most
worrisome thing is that this guy has a essianic vision."

Some operations, apparently aimed in part at intimidating Iran, are already
under way. American Naval tactical aircraft, operating from carriers in the
Arabian Sea, have been flying simulated nuclear-weapons delivery missions-rapid
ascending maneuvers known as "over the shoulder" bombing-since last summer, the
former official said, within range of Iranian coastal radars.

Last month, in a paper given at a conference on Middle East security in Berlin,
Colonel Sam Gardiner, a military analyst who taught at the National War College
before retiring from the Air Force, in 1987, provided an estimate of what would
be needed to destroy Iran's nuclear program. Working from satellite photographs
of the known facilities, Gardiner estimated that at least four hundred targets
would have to be hit. He added:

I don't think a U.S. military planner would want to stop there. Iran probably
has two chemical-production plants. We would hit those. We would want to hit the
medium-range ballistic missiles that have just recently been moved closer to
Iraq. There are fourteen airfields with sheltered aircraft. . . . We'd want to
get rid of that threat. We would want to hit the assets that could be used to
threaten Gulf shipping. That means targeting the cruise-missile sites and the
Iranian diesel submarines. . . . Some of the facilities may be too difficult to
target even with penetrating weapons. The U.S. will have to use Special
Operations units.

One of the military's initial option plans, as presented to the White House by
the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear
weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear sites. One target is
Iran's main centrifuge plant, at Natanz, nearly two hundred miles south of
Tehran. Natanz, which is no longer under I.A.E.A. safeguards, reportedly has
underground floor space to hold fifty thousand centrifuges, and laboratories and
workspaces buried approximately eventy-five feet beneath the surface. That
number of centrifuges could provide enough enriched uranium for about twenty
nuclear warheads a year. (Iran has acknowledged that it initially kept the
existence of its enrichment program hidden from I.A.E.A. inspectors, but claims
that none of its current activity is barred by the Non-Proliferation Treaty.)
The elimination of Natanz would be a major setback for Iran's nuclear mbitions,
but the conventional weapons in the American arsenal could not insure the
destruction of facilities under seventy-five feet of earth and rock, especially
if they are reinforced with concrete.

There is a Cold War precedent for targeting deep underground bunkers with
nuclear weapons. In the early nineteen-eighties, the American intelligence
community watched as the Soviet government began digging a huge underground
complex outside Moscow. Analysts concluded that the underground facility was
designed for "continuity of government"-for the political and military
leadership to survive a nuclear war. (There are similar facilities, in Virginia
and Pennsylvania, for the American leadership.) The Soviet facility still
exists, and much of what the U.S. knows about it remains classified. "The 'tell'
"-the giveaway-"was the ventilator shafts, some of which were disguised," the
former senior intelligence official told me. At the time, he said, it was
determined that "only nukes" could destroy the bunker. He added that some
American intelligence analysts believe that the Russians helped the Iranians
design their underground facility. "We see a similarity of design," specifically
in the ventilator shafts, he said.

A former high-level Defense Department official told me that, in his view, even
limited bombing would allow the U.S. to "go in there and do enough damage to
slow down the nuclear infrastructure-it's feasible." The former defense official
said, "The Iranians don't have friends, and we can tell them that, if necessary,
we'll keep knocking back their infrastructure. The United States should act like
we're ready to go." He added, "We don't have to knock down all of their air
defenses. Our stealth bombers and standoff missiles really work, and we can blow
fixed things up. We can do things on the ground, too, but it's difficult and
very dangerous-put bad stuff in ventilator shafts and put them to sleep."

But those who are familiar with the Soviet bunker, according to the former
senior intelligence official, "say 'No way.' You've got to know what's
underneath-to know which ventilator feeds people, or diesel generators, or which
are false. And there's a lot that we don't know." The lack of reliable
intelligence leaves military planners, given the goal of totally destroying the
sites, little choice but to consider the use of tactical nuclear weapons. "Every
other option, in the view of the nuclear weaponeers, would leave a gap," the
former senior intelligence official said. " 'Decisive' is the key word of the
Air Force's planning. It's a tough decision. But we made it in Japan."

He went on, "Nuclear planners go through extensive training and learn the
technical details of damage and fallout-we're talking about mushroom clouds,
radiation, mass casualties, and contamination over years. This is not an
underground nuclear test, where all you see is the earth raised a little bit.
These politicians don't have a clue, and whenever anybody tries to get it
out"-remove the nuclear option-"they're shouted down."

The attention given to the nuclear option has created serious misgivings inside
the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he added, and some officers have
talked about resigning. Late this winter, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought to
remove the nuclear option from the evolving war plans for Iran-without success,
the former intelligence official said. "The White House said, 'Why are you
challenging this? The option came from ou.' "

The Pentagon adviser on the war on terror confirmed that some in the
Administration were looking seriously at this option, which he linked to a
resurgence of interest in tactical nuclear weapons among Pentagon civilians and
in policy circles. He called it "a juggernaut that has to be stopped." He also
confirmed that some senior officers and officials were considering resigning
over the issue. "There are very strong sentiments ithin the military against
brandishing nuclear weapons against other countries," the adviser told me. "This
goes to high levels." The matter may soon reach a decisive point, he said,
because the Joint Chiefs had agreed to give President Bush a formal
recommendation stating that they are strongly opposed to considering the nuclear
option for Iran. "The internal debate on this has hardened in recent weeks," the
adviser said. "And, if senior Pentagon officers express their opposition to the
use of offensive nuclear weapons, then it will never happen."

The adviser added, however, that the idea of using tactical nuclear weapons in
such situations has gained support from the Defense Science Board, an advisory
panel whose members are selected by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
"They're telling the Pentagon that we can build the B61 with more blast and less
radiation," he said.

The chairman of the Defense Science Board is William Schneider, Jr., an
nder-Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration. In January, 2001, as
President Bush prepared to take office, Schneider served on an ad-hoc panel on
nuclear forces sponsored by the National Institute for Public Policy, a
conservative think tank. The panel's report recommended treating tactical
nuclear weapons as an essential part of the U.S. arsenal and noted their
suitability "for those occasions when the certain and prompt destruction of high
priority targets is essential and beyond the promise of conventional weapons."
Several signers of the report are now prominent members of the Bush
Administration, including Stephen Hadley, the national-security adviser; Stephen
Cambone, the Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence; and Robert Joseph, the
Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.

The Pentagon adviser questioned the value of air strikes. "The Iranians have
distributed their nuclear activity very well, and we have no clue where some of
the key stuff is. It could even be out of the country," he said. He warned, as
did many others, that bombing Iran could provoke "a chain reaction" of attacks
on American facilities and citizens throughout the world: "What will 1.2 billion
Muslims think the day we attack ran?"

With or without the nuclear option, the list of targets may inevitably expand.
One recently retired high-level Bush Administration official, who is also an
expert on war planning, told me that he would have vigorously argued against an
air attack on Iran, because "Iran is a much tougher target" than Iraq. But, he
added, "If you're going to do any bombing to stop the nukes, you might as well
improve your lie across the board. Maybe hit some training camps, and clear up a
lot of other problems."

The Pentagon adviser said that, in the event of an attack, the Air Force
intended to strike many hundreds of targets in Iran but that "ninety-nine per
cent of them have nothing to do with proliferation. There are people who believe
it's the way to operate"-that the Administration can achieve its policy goals in
Iran with a bombing campaign, an idea that has been supported by
neoconservatives.

If the order were to be given for an attack, the American combat troops now
operating in Iran would be in position to mark the critical targets with laser
beams, to insure bombing accuracy and to minimize civilian casualties. As of
early winter, I was told by the government consultant with close ties to
civilians in the Pentagon, the units were also working with minority groups in
Iran, including the Azeris, in the north, the aluchis, in the southeast, and the
Kurds, in the northeast. The troops "are studying the terrain, and giving away
walking-around money to ethnic tribes, and recruiting scouts from local tribes
and shepherds," the consultant said. One goal is to get "eyes on the
ground"-quoting a line from "Othello," he said, "Give me the ocular proof." The
broader aim, the consultant said, is to "encourage ethnic tensions" and
undermine the egime.

The new mission for the combat troops is a product of Defense Secretary
Rumsfeld's long-standing interest in expanding the role of the military in
covert operations, which was made official policy in the Pentagon's Quadrennial
Defense Review, published in February. Such activities, if conducted by C.I.A.
operatives, would need a Presidential Finding and would have to be reported to
key members of Congress.

" 'Force protection' is the new buzzword," the former senior intelligence
official told me. He was referring to the Pentagon's position that clandestine
activities that can be broadly classified as preparing the battlefield or
protecting troops are military, not intelligence, operations, and are therefore
not subject to congressional oversight. "The uys in the Joint Chiefs of Staff
say there are a lot of uncertainties in Iran," he said. "We need to have more
than what we had in Iraq. Now we have the green light to do everything we want."

The President's deep distrust of Ahmadinejad has strengthened his determination
to confront Iran. This view has been reinforced by allegations that Ahmadinejad,
who joined a special-forces brigade of the Revolutionary Guards in 1986, may
have been involved in terrorist activities in the late eighties. (There are gaps
in Ahmadinejad's official biography in this period.) Ahmadinejad has reportedly
been connected to Imad Mughniyeh, a terrorist who has been implicated in the
deadly bombings of the U.S. Embassy and the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, in
1983. Mughniyeh was then the security chief of Hezbollah; he remains on the
F.B.I.'s list of most-wanted terrorists.

Robert Baer, who was a C.I.A. officer in the Middle East and elsewhere for two
decades, told me that Ahmadinejad and his Revolutionary Guard colleagues in the
Iranian government "are capable of making a bomb, hiding it, and launching it at
Israel. They're apocalyptic Shiites. If you're sitting in Tel Aviv and you
believe they've got nukes and missiles-you've got to take them out. These guys
are nuts, and there's no reason to back off."

Under Ahmadinejad, the Revolutionary Guards have expanded their power base
throughout the Iranian bureaucracy; by the end of January, they had replaced
thousands of civil servants with their own members. One former senior United
Nations official, who has extensive experience with Iran, depicted the turnover
as "a white coup," with ominous implications for the West. "Professionals in the
Foreign Ministry are out; others are waiting to be kicked out," he said. "We may
be too late. These guys now believe that they are stronger than ever since the
revolution." He said that, articularly in consideration of China's emergence as
a superpower, Iran's attitude was "To hell with the West. You can do as much as
you like."

Iran's supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, is considered by many
experts to be in a stronger position than Ahmadinejad. "Ahmadinejad is not in
control," one European diplomat told me. "Power is diffuse in Iran. The
Revolutionary Guards are among the key backers of the nuclear program, but,
ultimately, I don't think they are in charge of it. The Supreme Leader has the
casting vote on the nuclear program, and the Guards will not take action without
his approval."

The Pentagon adviser on the war on terror said that "allowing Iran to have the
bomb is not on the table. We cannot have nukes being sent downstream to a terror
network. It's just too dangerous." He added, "The whole internal debate is on
which way to go"-in terms of stopping the Iranian program. It is possible, the
adviser said, that Iran will unilaterally renounce its nuclear plans-and
forestall the American action. "God may smile on us, but I don't think so. The
bottom line is that Iran cannot become a nuclear-weapons state. The problem is
that the Iranians realize that only by becoming a nuclear state can they defend
themselves against the U.S. Something bad is going to happen."

While almost no one disputes Iran's nuclear ambitions, there is intense debate
over how soon it could get the bomb, and what to do about that. Robert Gallucci,
a former government expert on nonproliferation who is now the dean of the School
of Foreign Service at Georgetown, told me, "Based on what I know, Iran could be
eight to ten years away" from developing a deliverable nuclear weapon. Gallucci
added, "If they had a covert nuclear program and we could prove it, and we could
not stop it by negotiation, diplomacy, or the threat of sanctions, I'd be in
favor of taking it out. But if you do it"-bomb Iran-"without being able to show
there's a secret program, you're in trouble."

Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, told the Knesset
last December that "Iran is one to two years away, at the latest, from having
enriched uranium. From that point, the completion of their nuclear weapon is
simply a technical matter." In a conversation with me, a senior Israeli
intelligence official talked about what he said was Iran's duplicity: "There are
two parallel nuclear programs" inside Iran-the program declared to the I.A.E.A.
and a separate operation, run by the ilitary and the Revolutionary Guards.
Israeli officials have repeatedly made this argument, but Israel has not
produced public evidence to support it. Richard Armitage, the Deputy Secretary
of State in Bush's first term, told me, "I think Iran has a secret
nuclear-weapons program-I believe it, but I don't know it."

In recent months, the Pakistani government has given the U.S. new access to A.
Q. Khan, the so-called father of the Pakistani atomic bomb. Khan, who is now
living under house arrest in Islamabad, is accused of setting up a black market
in nuclear materials; he made at least one clandestine visit to Tehran in the
late nineteen-eighties. In the most recent interrogations, Khan has provided
information on Iran's weapons design and its time line for building a bomb. "The
picture is of unquestionable danger,' " the former senior intelligence official
said. (The Pentagon adviser also confirmed that Khan has been "singing like a
canary.") The concern, the former senior official said, is that "Khan has
credibility problems. He is suggestible, and he's telling the neoconservatives
what they want to hear"-or what might be useful to Pakistan's President, Pervez
Musharraf, who is under pressure to assist ashington in the war on terror.

"I think Khan's leading us on," the former intelligence official said. "I don't
know anybody who says, 'Here's the smoking gun.' But lights are beginning to
blink. He's feeding us information on the time line, and targeting information
is coming in from our own sources- sensors and the covert teams. The C.I.A.,
which was so burned by Iraqi W.M.D., is going to the Pentagon and the
Vice-President's office saying, 'It's all new stuff.' People in the
Administration are saying, 'We've got enough.' "

The Administration's case against Iran is compromised by its history of
promoting false intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. In a recent
essay on the Foreign Policy Web site, entitled "Fool Me Twice," Joseph
Cirincione, the director for nonproliferation at the Carnegie Endowment for
International Peace, wrote, "The unfolding administration strategy appears to be
an effort to repeat its successful campaign for the Iraq war." He noted several
parallels:

The vice president of the United States gives a major speech focused on the
threat from an oil-rich nation in the Middle East. The U.S. Secretary of State
tells Congress that the same nation is our most serious global challenge. The
Secretary of Defense calls that nation the leading supporter of global
terrorism.

Cirincione called some of the Administration's claims about Iran "questionable"
or lacking in evidence. When I spoke to him, he asked, "What do we know? What is
the threat? The question is: How urgent is all this?" The answer, he said, "is
in the intelligence community and the I.A.E.A." (In August, the Washington Post
reported that the most recent comprehensive National Intelligence Estimate
predicted that Iran was a decade away from being a nuclear power.)

Last year, the Bush Administration briefed I.A.E.A. officials on what it said
was new and alarming information about Iran's weapons program which had been
retrieved from an Iranian's laptop. The new data included more than a thousand
pages of technical drawings of weapons systems. The Washington Post reported
that there were also designs for a small facility that could be used in the
uranium-enrichment process. Leaks about the laptop became the focal point of
stories in the Times and elsewhere. The stories were generally careful to note
that the materials could have been abricated, but also quoted senior American
officials as saying that they appeared to be legitimate. The headline in the
Times' account read, "RELYING ON COMPUTER, U.S. SEEKS TO PROVE IRAN'S NUCLEAR
AIMS."

I was told in interviews with American and European intelligence officials,
however, that the laptop was more suspect and less revelatory than it had been
depicted. The Iranian who owned the laptop had initially been recruited by
German and American intelligence operatives, working together. The Americans
eventually lost interest in him. The Germans kept on, but the Iranian was seized
by the Iranian counter-intelligence force. It is not known where he is today.
Some family members managed to leave Iran with his laptop and handed it over at
a U.S. embassy, apparently in Europe. It was a classic "walk-in."

A European intelligence official said, "There was some hesitation on our side"
about what the materials really proved, "and we are still not convinced." The
drawings were not meticulous, as newspaper accounts suggested, "but had the
character of sketches," the European official said. "It was not a slam-dunk
smoking gun."

The threat of American military action has created dismay at the headquarters of
the I.A.E.A., in Vienna. The agency's officials believe that Iran wants to be
able to make a nuclear weapon, but "nobody has presented an inch of evidence of
a parallel nuclear-weapons program in Iran," the high-ranking diplomat told me.
The I.A.E.A.'s best estimate is that the Iranians are five years away from
building a nuclear bomb. "But, if the United States does anything militarily,
they will make the development of a bomb a matter of Iranian national pride,"
the diplomat said. "The whole issue is America's risk assessment of Iran's
future intentions, and they don't trust the regime. Iran is a menace to American
policy."

In Vienna, I was told of an exceedingly testy meeting earlier this year between
Mohamed ElBaradei, the I.A.E.A.'s director-general, who won the Nobel Peace
Prize last year, and Robert Joseph, the Under-Secretary of State for Arms
Control. Joseph's message was blunt, one diplomat recalled: "We cannot have a
single centrifuge spinning in Iran. Iran is a direct threat to the national
security of the United States and our allies, and we will not tolerate it. We
want you to give us an understanding that you will not say anything publicly
that will undermine us. "

Joseph's heavy-handedness was unnecessary, the diplomat said, since the I.A.E.A.
already had been inclined to take a hard stand against Iran. "All of the
inspectors are angry at being misled by the Iranians, and some think the Iranian
leadership are nutcases-one hundred per cent totally certified nuts," the
diplomat said. He added that ElBaradei's overriding concern is that the Iranian
leaders "want confrontation, just like the neocons on the other side"-in
Washington. "At the end of the day, it will work only if the United States
agrees to talk to the Iranians."

The central question-whether Iran will be able to proceed with its plans to
enrich uranium-is now before the United Nations, with the Russians and the
Chinese reluctant to impose sanctions on Tehran. A discouraged former I.A.E.A.
official told me in late March that, at this point, "there's nothing the
Iranians could do that would result in a positive outcome. American diplomacy
does not allow for it. Even if they announce a stoppage of enrichment, nobody
will believe them. It's a dead end."

Another diplomat in Vienna asked me, "Why would the West take the risk of going
to war against that kind of target without giving it to the I.A.E.A. to verify?
We're low-cost, and we can create a program that will force Iran to put its
cards on the table." A Western Ambassador in Vienna expressed similar distress
at the White House's dismissal of the I.A.E.A. He said, "If you don't believe
that the I.A.E.A. can establish an inspection system-if you don't trust them-you
can only bomb."

There is little sympathy for the I.A.E.A. in the Bush Administration or among
its European allies. "We're quite frustrated with the director-general," the
European diplomat told me. "His basic approach has been to describe this as a
dispute between two sides with equal weight. It's not. We're the good guys!
ElBaradei has been pushing the idea of letting Iran have a small
nuclear-enrichment program, which is ludicrous. It's not his job to push ideas
that pose a serious proliferation risk."

The Europeans are rattled, however, by their growing perception that President
Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney believe a bombing campaign will be needed,
and that their real goal is regime change. "Everyone is on the same page about
the Iranian bomb, but the United States wants regime change," a European
diplomatic adviser told me. He added, "The Europeans have a role to play as long
as they don't have to choose between going along with the Russians and the
Chinese or going along with Washington on something they don't want. Their
policy is to keep the Americans engaged in something the Europeans can live
with. It may be untenable."

"The Brits think this is a very bad idea," Flynt Leverett, a former National
Security Council staff member who is now a senior fellow at the Brookings
Institution's Saban Center, told me, "but they're really worried we're going to
do it." The European diplomatic adviser acknowledged that the British Foreign
Office was aware of war planning in Washington but that, "short of a smoking
gun, it's going to be very difficult to line up the Europeans on Iran." He said
that the British "are jumpy about the mericans going full bore on the Iranians,
with no compromise."

The European diplomat said that he was skeptical that Iran, given its record,
had admitted to everything it was doing, but "to the best of our knowledge the
Iranian capability is not at the point where they could successfully run
centrifuges" to enrich uranium in quantity. One reason for pursuing diplomacy
was, he said, Iran's essential pragmatism. "The regime acts in its best
interests," he said. Iran's leaders "take a ard-line approach on the nuclear
issue and they want to call the American bluff," believing that "the tougher
they are the more likely the West will fold." But, he said, "From what we've
seen with Iran, they will appear superconfident until the moment they back off."

The diplomat went on, "You never reward bad behavior, and this is not the time
to offer concessions. We need to find ways to impose sufficient costs to bring
the regime to its senses. It's going to be a close call, but I think if there is
unity in opposition and the price imposed"-in sanctions-"is sufficient, they may
back down. It's too early to give up on the U.N. route." He added, "If the
diplomatic process doesn't work, there is no military 'solution.' There may be a
military option, but the impact could be catastrophic."

Tony Blair, the British Prime Minister, was George Bush's most dependable ally
in the year leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. But he and his party have
been racked by a series of financial scandals, and his popularity is at a low
point. Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, said last year that military action
against Iran was "inconceivable." Blair has been more circumspect, saying
publicly that one should never take options ff the table.

Other European officials expressed similar skepticism about the value of an
American bombing campaign. "The Iranian economy is in bad shape, and Ahmadinejad
is in bad shape politically," the European intelligence official told me. "He
will benefit politically from American bombing. You can do it, but the results
will be worse." An American attack, he said, would alienate ordinary Iranians,
including those who might be sympathetic to the U.S. "Iran is no longer living
in the Stone Age, and the young eople there have access to U.S. movies and
books, and they love it," he said. "If there was a charm offensive with Iran,
the mullahs would be in trouble in the long run."

Another European official told me that he was aware that many in Washington
wanted action. "It's always the same guys," he said, with a resigned shrug.
"There is a belief that diplomacy is doomed to fail. The timetable is short."

A key ally with an important voice in the debate is Israel, whose leadership has
warned for years that it viewed any attempt by Iran to begin enriching uranium
as a point of no return. I was told by several officials that the White House's
interest in preventing an Israeli attack on a Muslim country, which would
provoke a backlash across the region, was a factor in its decision to begin the
current operational planning. In a speech in Cleveland on March 20th, President
Bush depicted Ahmadinejad's hostility toward Israel as a "serious threat. It's a
threat to world peace." He added, "I made it clear, I'll make it clear again,
that we will use military might to protect our ally Israel."

Any American bombing attack, Richard Armitage told me, would have to consider
the following questions: "What will happen in the other Islamic countries? What
ability does Iran have to reach us and touch us globally-that is, terrorism?
Will Syria and Lebanon up the pressure on Israel? What does the attack do to our
already diminished international standing? And what does this mean for Russia,
China, and the U.N. Security Council?"

Iran, which now produces nearly four million barrels of oil a day, would not
have to cut off production to disrupt the world's oil markets. It could blockade
or mine the Strait of Hormuz, the thirty-four-mile-wide passage through which
Middle Eastern oil reaches the Indian Ocean. Nonetheless, the recently retired
defense official dismissed the strategic consequences of such actions. He told
me that the U.S. Navy could keep hipping open by conducting salvage missions and
putting mine- sweepers to work. "It's impossible to block passage," he said. The
government consultant with ties to the Pentagon also said he believed that the
oil problem could be managed, pointing out that the U.S. has enough in its
strategic reserves to keep America running for sixty days. However, those in the
oil business I spoke to were less optimistic; one industry expert estimated that
the price per barrel would immediately spike, to anywhere from ninety to a
hundred dollars per barrel, and could go higher, depending on the duration and
scope of the conflict.

Michel Samaha, a veteran Lebanese Christian politician and former cabinet
minister in Beirut, told me that the Iranian retaliation might be focussed on
exposed oil and gas fields in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, and the United Arab
Emirates. "They would be at risk," he said, "and this could begin the real jihad
of Iran versus the West. You will have a messy world."

Iran could also initiate a wave of terror attacks in Iraq and elsewhere, with
the help of Hezbollah. On April 2nd, the Washington Post reported that the
planning to counter such attacks "is consuming a lot of time" at U.S.
intelligence agencies. "The best terror network in the world has remained
neutral in the terror war for the past several years," the Pentagon adviser on
the war on terror said of Hezbollah. "This will mobilize them and put us up
against the group that drove Israel out of southern Lebanon. If we move against
Iran, Hezbollah will not sit on the sidelines. Unless the Israelis take them
out, they will mobilize against us." (When I asked the government consultant
about that possibility, he said that, if Hezbollah fired rockets into northern
Israel, "Israel and he new Lebanese government will finish them off.")

The adviser went on, "If we go, the southern half of Iraq will light up like a
candle." The American, British, and other coalition forces in Iraq would be at
greater risk of attack from Iranian troops or from Shiite militias operating on
instructions from Iran. (Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, has close ties to
the leading Shiite parties in Iraq.) A retired four-star general told me that,
despite the eight thousand British troops in the region, "the Iranians could
take Basra with ten mullahs and one sound truck."

"If you attack," the high-ranking diplomat told me in Vienna, "Ahmadinejad will
be the new Saddam Hussein of the Arab world, but with more credibility and more
power. You must bite the bullet and sit down with the Iranians."

The diplomat went on, "There are people in Washington who would be unhappy if we
found a solution. They are still banking on isolation and regime change. This is
wishful thinking." He added, "The window of opportunity is now."

(2) Another War for Israel? Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:01:44 -0700 From: Jeff Blankfort
<jblankfort@earthlink.net>

The following quotes from Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker are quite
revealing. The Washington Inst. is a think tank established by AIPAC for the
purpose of actually being in the position to formulate US Middle East policy. It
is a key component of the Israel Lobby.

The comments about the US undertaking the attack instead of Israel and Resident
Bush's commitment to use the US military and expend US lives to defend Israel,
something that Israel has never done for the US, raises the question, which one
is the client state?

The last paragraph clearly refers to the neocons who have made regime change in
Iran their top priority as has the full spectrum of Israel lobbying
organizations.

Will they say this is a "war for oil," as well?

The rationale for regime change was articulated in early March by Patrick
Clawson, an Iran expert who is the deputy director for research at the
Washington Institute for Near East Policy and who has been a supporter of
President Bush. "So long as Iran has an Islamic republic, it will have a
nuclear-weapons program, at least clandestinely," Clawson told the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee on March 2nd. "The key issue, therefore, is: How
long will the present Iranian regime last?"

--
Peter Myers, 381 Goodwood Rd, Childers 4660, Australia ph +61 7 41262296
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers Mirror: http://mailstar.net/index.html I
use the old Mac OS; being incompatible, it cannot run Windows viruses or
transmit them to you. If my mail does not arrive, or yours bounces, please ring
me: this helps beat sabotage. To unsubscribe, reply with "unsubscribe" in the
subject line; allow 1 day.

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:03:35 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Sorry, in the deluge of all the reasons I hear to go to war, I
only saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming that the
Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war, they never responded or
were able to share where their source of information was from, so all I had
was their personal hearsay, that they got it from someone they trusted, as
hearsay and that they themselves were as trustworthy as the person who gave
them the hearsay, so there was no need for me to question anything they
passed along. That is, they couldn’t show me any independent data to show
that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war, much less
any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing,
happens all the time and a great many ludicrous things get dumped on those
of Jewish faith that maybe the Israel government may have wanted or tried to
do. Even though I haven’t been the slightest fan of the Israeli government
since the attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn’t colored my feelings for
individuals of Jewish faith.

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own
research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to
other stuff he wrote.

So, if you have any hard facts, references I can read myself, that show that
the Jewish Lobby and the Israeli government actually pushed for the US to go
to war with countries that had no connection with the phantom 911 terrorists
(like the 7 Saudi’s… that are still alive, last seen in Saudi Arabia itself)
please share them. I make up my own mind. If this was a court of law and I
was a juror, I definitely couldn’t give the death penalty on what
information I have seen.

-
A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets say C-4 since it is compact
and easy to transport. A van load of it wouldn’t have been enough to take
down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way the building could have
been rigged over night. Traditional demolition experts figured weeks in a
rush job, more likely months.
So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a composition that
could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for days
later?
To turn this ‘suspect’ evidence into some scientific fact, you’d have to
know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit in with
the data we have gathered.

As far as Faux News, I have no idea if they were one of the three stations I
watched most that morning, from about 8 minutes after the first plane hit, I
watched live newscasts, but Faux News, they are professional revisionist
story tellers, their news is to get their advertisers money, not to tell the
truth, in my personal opinion, they are trying to take the national Enquirer
’s business away. Their credibility ain’t worth the airwaves they broadcast
over.
They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and what they
rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
happened.
What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn’t even compare with
what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have just
reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All they got
right was that a great many people died and that a great many people were in
shock.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on there for
the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for years, that
there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and no one
knew what it was, much of it was after hours.
I use to be a building demolition junkie, I’ve seen hundreds of film clips
on this, I seen more than a few in person.
Fire didn’t take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition did.

I have friends that are pilots, they referred me to several buildings that
jet liners had hit and then I researched those thoroughly. I researched to
see how many steel structure buildings had fallen from airplane hits and the
resulting fires. ZERO. I looked to see how many steel structured buildings I
could find that had fallen due to fires, maybe there was more ‘interesting
footage’ like the three WTC towers. ZERO, no other steel structure building
has ever fallen from a fire even one induced by crashing a jet liner into
it.

Yet I have seen a great many buildings demolished and what I saw that
morning, I was sure was a demolition job. After my research, I couldn’t only
imagine how far off I was thinking of how blood thirsty those who pulled
this off were.

I and my X wife read everything we could on the WTC towers after our
daughter started work there, about 1998, we both were independently aware
that in the original articles of impeachment for Clinton one of the articles
was that a private plane had made it into NYC airspace, 12.5 minutes or
something like that, and that was the only instance of the 10 minute
response time having been violated in 12 years, before that it was a 12
minute response time, until 9/11/01 when it was closer to 1 hour and 43
minutes.
Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security clearance, my
daughter can’t talk about anything other than her emotions that day. If you
have ever worked a federal government job, if you’ve ever been a civilian
whose company did contracts for the Government, you’ll understand her
position and why I never pushed her for any other details.

We know Cheney ordered the Colonel at Norad to stand down. We know that with
an inter office memo that Bush transferred the power that congress had given
to the president and the President only, to his Vice President, Dick Cheney.
We now know that Cheney was in charge of Norad that morning. Of course no
one needed to get GW to safety, it was an inside job. That is data, those
are things that can be found again and again in internet searches, facts
that can be verified, many articles written about them plus Cheney direction
Norad is in the 911 Commission report. They fucking aren’t afraid of those
that do research, they control all the information superhighway except the
internet and who knows if we have days or years left there.
I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview of the
Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half dozen
videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now hearsay. But
the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad
controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is there for
those who dig.

I haven’t researched the nitty gritty details that so many others have, I
have researched what I saw and heard in 4 hours that morning watching 2
different TV’s and all I can find is that it is a darker more sinister
picture than I thought that morning.

Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?
That is the door to the slaughter house.
Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can’t verify as truth yourself
and that is where you are headed.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
Israel?

Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
screamed loudest for the war

I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I
am looking at the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World
health Organization.

Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?

Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA,
and 5 men with a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is
suspect but….

It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
controlled demolition.

I don't understand that.

I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
place about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.

I don't understand that either

Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that
his superior ordered him to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes
unless given further orders.

Really, I didn't hear that.

Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed place was the control room of Norad, as his control
amounted to continually telling the operators there to let the
aircraft through, to issue to warnings to the apparent targets and
especially to not let any of our armed aircraft into the air that
might interfere.

Yes I understood that.

I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
be present at the execution.

Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
character.

Scott

Eric

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
Carlyle
> group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
looking at
> the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
Organization.
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
when you
> say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
men with
> a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but…. A van
full of
> C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> demolition.
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work place
> about construction work that had gone on there for the three
previous
> months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
hopefully,
> separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
interviewed just
> after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
ordered him
> to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
orders.
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
undisclosed
> place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
continually
> telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
our armed
> aircraft into the air that might interfere.
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
to be
> present at the execution.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
the
> company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> before the attacks matters too.
>
> The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> check out the following.
> >
> > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
Jew,
> I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> >
> > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
1/3
> (conservatively) are Jewish.
> >
> > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> >
> > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > debunking these lies via this link.
> >
> > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> >
> > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
and
> power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> >
> > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
the
> truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > from that I wonder?
> >
> > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > much as you obviously think you do.
> >
> > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
rational
> and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
our
> > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
is
> to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > others.
> >
> > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> efforts.
> >
> > Leslie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
those
> with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
wanted
> the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> what you can do about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
as
> you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > prove.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Leslie,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
thre
> New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
that
> to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
individual --
> >
> >
> >
> > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
pointing
> out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> >
> >
> >
> > =================
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, Al.
> >
> > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> >
> > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
Israel
> > had anything to do with it?
> >
> > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> >
> > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > is ample proof of each point.
> >
> > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> >
> > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > walk you through what I have found.
> >
> > Here is a sample:
> >
> > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> >
> > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> corresponded so long ago.
> >
> > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
I
> could only gain.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Dick Eastman
> > Yakima, Washinton
> >
> > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> by chaos theory
> > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> little butterfly who
> > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <aelewis@>
> > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> Dick Eastman
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
observed
> > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
ago
> > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
life
> > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > Jew-hating spin.
> >
> > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
Zionists,
> > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
is a
> > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > distinguished from its parent.)
> >
> > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
women
> > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > rationalization for their malady":
> >
> > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> further
> > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> which
> > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
a
> > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
to 'the
> > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> hatred to
> > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> malady.'"
> >
> > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
it.
> > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
as
> > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
cesspool,
> > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
is
> > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> >
> > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
a
> > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
generally
> > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> >
> > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
message
> > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
out
> > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
it
> > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
single
> > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
credibility
> > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
be a
> > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
that
> > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
Yes,
> > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> >
> > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
does
> > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
of
> > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
to
> > understand.
> >
> > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
wants
> > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
Personality
> > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
reality
> > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
not
> > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> >
> > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> >
> > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
their
> > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > four (or more) of the following:
> >
> > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
exploiting,
> > harming, or deceiving him or her
> >
> > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> >
> > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> >
> > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > remarks or events
> >
> > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > injuries, or slights
> >
> > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > counterattack
> >
> > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
Association.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> >
> > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> _____
>

_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group " 911TruthAction
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

_____

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:41:02 -0700
From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Scott,

Israel is screaming for the US to take action against Iran right now. They argued for war against Iraq. But they did not have to argue too loudly -- because they had Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and a host of others in the White House and Pentagon applying the pressure.

What we have is not Israel screaming for war against Arab/Moslem nations, rather we have Mossad (and other Israeli agencies?) working with Zionist Neocons in strategic U.S. positions to conduct the false-flag black-op. 9-11 was an exercise in behavior modification of the United States -- it was a provocateur operation, an inside job. We know for sure because of all the players, and the fact, based on who these players are, that they would not cooperate and fit together so nicely if they were working with any other (non-Zionist, non-Israel-centered) players. The perpetrators are organized crime, but they are a Jewish mafia -- Zionist -- in their deepest creed. They just happen to be good at making service to the cause very very profitable to all who contribute to the mission.

The key is the group controlling the Pentagon -- their backgrounds tell the story.

Now to do your own research please go to this website where all of the perpetrators give their own stories of what they did to make 9-11 happen. You will note that there are complete photo records of their secret meetings in the archives. Just kidding.

Scott -- how could a Boeing not have crashed at the Pentagon and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz not been involved? Then look at those around them and you will see they are all Jewish with strong connections to Israel and to Zionism. Look at the style of the false-flag event -- it has Mossad written all over it.

Areil Sharon is in a coma because he knew too much to be trusted outside the Likud party.

You are not convinced -- and I am in no position to dig up all the old news stories from 2000 on that contribued to my understanding of events -- I can only rely on being understood by informed people who have been watching events closely and critically over the last six years.

Dov Zakheim has had an interesting career in government and in remote-control aircraft -- start with him.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Peden
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

That is, they couldn't show me any independent data to show that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war, much less any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew Bashing,

When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can do my own research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references go back to other stuff he wrote.

[This message contained attachments]

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:24:37 -0700
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

I have yet to see concrete evidence that these world bankers are Zionist and
just not another corporate faction in their bid for control of all of the
governments of the world.

That means (Bankers) financing anyone one that can produce constant warfare.

I still haven’t seen anything that convinces me that a Neo Con is a Zionist,
much less that there are Zionists that aren’t Jewish. Too simple and too
small of a sampling for what I have seen.

I find I have to really stretch my reality to get that small of a section
(Zionists) make up who wanted 9/11 to happen, who pulled it off and who
profits for it. Seems a great many groups, corporations, banks make loads of
money and that these same Corporation/Warfare/Bankers groups all are after
controlling government to do their personal bidding. I just can’t figure out
how they link into everything else and there is so much more at work that
what I have found to be true or what has been posted on this group.
I hate to put it this way, but 9/11 is a symptom, not the cause of the
illness the planet is suffering from. Treating symptoms make certain people
rich, where as dealing with the health of the organism alleviates the
symptoms, of an ill organism. In this case, all of the scenarios that
brought about 9/11, not just trying to make just one theory fit. I know
where Cheney stands in this. I know that this is the agenda for PNAC. I also
know that the last 4-5 presidents worked very hard for the World Trade and
World Health Organizations, whose purpose it is to control the worlds
governments though economic means, I know that many of the goals, of most
of the organizations that I and other people have listed here, are also
goals of the mysterious Tri lateral organization. I know almost nothing
about the illuminati that makes sense to me, maybe I’m reading the wrong
stuff but it appears pretty much redundant after a while when the names just
keep jumping around from one organization to another finding so many inter
connected bad guys, who the Fuck really is behind all of this?
I have no idea how many people belong to more than one of any of those
organizations, but I get the feeling they have their own inner competition
going as to who will have the firmest grip on planetary control. 9/11 happed
to work for a lot of people, even places I hadn’t thought of before.

In regards to these comments of yours, I and others in a group
now defunct, have reached pretty much the same conclusions years ago through
means where I hadn’t heard of anyone I can recall of, in this group . That
is, independent confirmations rather than swayed by the researchers here. I
didn’t attach that which I didn’t feel 95+% behind.

“The Pentagon with Rumsfeld in it was attacked for two reasons --
to cover the Pentagon neo-cons from suspicion ("they would never attack
themselves") and to murder the personnel of the Office of Naval Intelligence
that had been moved into the targeted "new wedge" area.

“Mossad operates as does the CIA -- for the special interests
(profits-power- Zionism), not for the
"national interests" of Israel or the United States. The apparatus of the
state has been sequestered from national interest to serve/profit the
special interests of the power-elite groups (represented by agents Perle,
Kissinger etc.)”

In regards to this statement;
“Certainly the interceptions were not made. There must
be some reason why pursuit planes never took off.”

I saw the Colonel interviewed, live, he said he called his superior as
protocol stated and he was ordered to ground what he had in the air, not
refuel or arm that plane, to not fuel or arm the one on the ground that was
it’s replacement and do nothing until ordered. Then a cameraman asked what
he knew about the plane that hit the second tower and he snapped “nothing, I
’ve been in here giving interviews with the press instead of watching the
radar screen”.
After the 9/11 transcripts were released is when I saw the transcripts of
Cheney in the Norad Control room. That was the first time I was able to find
out who the Colonel was taking orders from, if it wasn’t the president as
has been the case since Regan.

Was it you or Eric that stated that PNAC and the Neo Con ranks are
predominantly Jewish? I’m more of an expert on the surnames of the British
Isles and not to bad on Germanic based names too, there are loads of those
on the Neo Cons and PNAC’s rosters. Which names are Jewish?

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:09 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

----- Original Message -----
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
To: <911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

>> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11 is
> Israel?
>
> Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
> Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
> screamed loudest for the war
>
Because of Sharon's hard stand Israel was losing world support
prior to 9-11. The (false-flag) attacks boosted Israel like the
Oaklahoma City bombing boosted Clinton a year after Waco.

Just a week before 911 I received a letter from Wendell Solomons
in Sri Lanka who was passing on information that "Israel is on
some kind of countdown" for an important happening.

Zionism gained from 9-11 just as it gains from the holocaust story.

>> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
> Carlyle group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I
> am looking at the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World
> health Organization.

Look at the people who finance the war and who own the corporations.
Investment banks lending at compound interest have gained much more from the
war than defense-industry corporations. These bankers are Zionists -- we
cannot say which motive is uppermost in their minds/hearts, Zionism or
profit.

The attacks in New York have been proven to have been more than boxcutter
hijackers -- see, for example, my evidence on the Pentagon attack
http://bedoper.com/eastman for a sample of the case that exists against the
Pentagon leadership -- who are Neo-cons, who are Zionists, who are Jewish,
who are motivated by what is good for Israel. -- They would not have
processed the mass-murder frame-up without taking its effect on Israel into
account. The Pentagon with Rumsfeld in it was attacked for two reasons --
to cover the Pentagon neo-cons from suspicion ("they would never attack
themselves") and to murder the personnel of the Office of Naval Intelligence
that had been moved into the targeted "new wedge" area.

Richard Perle headed a group that included Wolfowitz, Kissinger, Feith at
the Pentagon -- this is where 9/11 was planned -- Perle represents the
(Zionist) Rothschilds, Kissinger represents the Rockefellers and the
hinese -- the plan was made so every principal would get a payoff.
>
> Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
> 9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?
>
Yes, many groups benefited from 9-11 -- but one overarching group was
necessary -- the Zionist network Mossad-Pentagon-MI6-CIA-NSA -- a
network where the official organization charts are misleading.
>
>> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
> when you say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA,
> and 5 men with a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is
> suspect but..

Mossad operates as does the CIA -- for the special interests
(profits-power- Zionism), not for the
"national interests" of Israel or the United States. The apparatus of the
state has been sequestered from national interest to serve/profit the
special interests of the power-elite groups (represented by agents Perle,
Kissinger etc.)
>
> It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
> Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close to
> the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.

Israel was America's eyes and ears in central asia and in the mid-east --
the U.S. relied in Israeli information about everything -- the 9-11
false-flag
operation depended on control of all information.
>
>
>
>> A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as
> controlled demolition.
>
> I don't understand that.

I also don't know what you are talking about. The van of the
"laughing Israeli's" did not pass the sniff test of the explosives
dogs (it showed positive for explosives materials) -- but no
one is suggesting that that one truck carried all the explosives
used in the controlled demolitions of the twin towers.
>
>
>> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their work
> place about construction work that had gone on there for the three
> previous months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
> hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> I don't understand that either

Yes, I too remember detailed stories about work that was done
on the buildings just prior to the attacks -- work with the security
cameras shut down for certain periods as I remember -
>
>
>
>> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
> interviewed just after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that
> his superior ordered him to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes
> unless given further orders.
>
>
> Really, I didn't hear that.

Certainly the interceptions were not made. There must
be some reason why pursuit planes never took off.
>
>
>
>> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
> undisclosed place was the control room of Norad, as his control
> amounted to continually telling the operators there to let the
> aircraft through, to issue to warnings to the apparent targets and
> especially to not let any of our armed aircraft into the air that
> might interfere.
>
> Yes I understood that.

Yes, I've read this too -- and it all fits -- but I base everything not
on these reports (whose authenticity I cannot verify) but on the photo
evidence in the Pentagon attack. Once it was established that the
Pentagon was not attacked in the way that the government and media
reported -- then we had proven a black-op involving the Pentagton --
the Zionist Neo-con leadership, Kissinger, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld,
Feith and others.
>
>
>
>> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
> be present at the execution.

I have no such evidence. It seems that Cheney and Mossad were cooperating
on the same operation -- like the CIA and Mossad so often cooperate -- at
a black-op level and totally illegally (if only the law would know about
it).
>
> Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is a
> neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
> character.
>
Agree.

>> Scott
>
> Eric
>
Dick
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
> is
> > Israel?
> >
> > I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
> Carlyle
> > group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
> looking at
> > the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
> Organization.
> >
> > Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
> when you
> > say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
> men with
> > a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but.. A van
> full of
> > C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> > demolition.
> >
> > I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
> work place
> > about construction work that had gone on there for the three
> previous
> > months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
> hopefully,
> > separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
> >
> > Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
> interviewed just
> > after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
> ordered him
> > to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
> orders.
> >
> > Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
> undisclosed
> > place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
> continually
> > telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue to
> > warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
> our armed
> > aircraft into the air that might interfere.
> >
> > I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
> to be
> > present at the execution.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> > It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> > celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives in
> > their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
> the
> > company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was warned
> > before the attacks matters too.
> >
> > The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> > beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> > <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> > >
> > > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> > misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> > check out the following.
> > >
> > > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
> Jew,
> > I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> > which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> > >
> > > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
> 1/3
> > (conservatively) are Jewish.
> > >
> > > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> > >
> > > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> > analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died in
> > the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > > debunking these lies via this link.
> > >
> > > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> > >
> > > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents does
> > not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing to
> > do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
> and
> > power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> > Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That is
> > the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> > >
> > > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
> the
> > truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> > yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and use
> > > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study when
> > you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> > issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to draw
> > > from that I wonder?
> > >
> > > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all wrong.
> > You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> > throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > > much as you obviously think you do.
> > >
> > > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
> rational
> > and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> > don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make up
> > > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> > misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
> our
> > > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
> is
> > to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> > time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and if
> > we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> > repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > > others.
> > >
> > > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic to
> > make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> > efforts.
> > >
> > > Leslie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
> those
> > with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
> wanted
> > the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> > what you can do about it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
> as
> > you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> > prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > > prove.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Leslie,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish ethnicity
> > or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
> thre
> > New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect for
> > New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > > the word of several sources on the internet that only two Israelis
> > died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish -- I
> > have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to. My
> > favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
> that
> > to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
> individual --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force Jews
> > to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
> pointing
> > out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, Al.
> > >
> > > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> > >
> > > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
> Israel
> > > had anything to do with it?
> > >
> > > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their motivation?
> > >
> > > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > > is ample proof of each point.
> > >
> > > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> > >
> > > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > > walk you through what I have found.
> > >
> > > Here is a sample:
> > >
> > > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> > >
> > > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> > corresponded so long ago.
> > >
> > > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
> I
> > could only gain.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > >
> > > Dick Eastman
> > > Yakima, Washinton
> > >
> > > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken in
> > by chaos theory
> > > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> > little butterfly who
> > > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --DE
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <aelewis@>
> > > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> > Dick Eastman
> > >
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
> observed
> > > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
> ago
> > > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
> life
> > > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > > Jew-hating spin.
> > >
> > > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
> Zionists,
> > > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
> is a
> > > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > > distinguished from its parent.)
> > >
> > > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
> women
> > > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression or
> > > rationalization for their malady":
> > >
> > > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> > further
> > > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> > which
> > > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom Rockwell
> > > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation from
> a
> > > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
> to 'the
> > > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> > hatred to
> > > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> > malady.'"
> > >
> > > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some of
> > > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
> it.
> > > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite open
> > > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That, combined
> as
> > > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
> cesspool,
> > > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
> is
> > > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes, Jewish
> > > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> > >
> > > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that flashed
> a
> > > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
> generally
> > > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And it
> > > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> > >
> > > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
> message
> > > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get through,
> > > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
> out
> > > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things that
> > > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I expect
> > > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with insight,
> it
> > > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
> single
> > > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
> credibility
> > > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
> be a
> > > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
> that
> > > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
> Yes,
> > > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> > >
> > > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
> does
> > > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the sense
> of
> > > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness), combined
> > > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
> to
> > > understand.
> > >
> > > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical Zionists,
> > > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha just
> > > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The Israel
> > > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
> wants
> > > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
> Personality
> > > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
> reality
> > > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
> not
> > > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > >
> > > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> > >
> > > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> > >
> > > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
> their
> > > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by
> > > four (or more) of the following:
> > >
> > > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
> exploiting,
> > > harming, or deceiving him or her
> > >
> > > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> > >
> > > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear
> > > that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
> > >
> > > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > > remarks or events
> > >
> > > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults,
> > > injuries, or slights
> > >
> > > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that
> > > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > > counterattack
> > >
> > > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> > >
> > > -----------------
> > >
> > > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
> Association.
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of
> > > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K Chesterton
> > >
> > > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> > of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
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> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
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> > Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> > _____
> >
>
>
>
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>
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>

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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:59:41 -0700
From: APFN <apfn@apfn.org>
Subject: [Fwd: COUNTERPUNCH: Flight 77? Talk about HOAX!]

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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:59:25 -0000
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

"I only saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming
that the Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war"

You weren't paying attention, that's your problem. I do not
appreciate bing called a Jew basher by somone who cannot think
straight.

Example

"To turn this `suspect' evidence into some scientific fact, you'd
have to know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw
and fit in with the data we have gathered."

Look, do I sound like the head of FBI New York to you, my accent is
completely wrong for a start. Did I say.. forget it. Do you have
scientific evidence for any of your accusationds for the building
falling down, Did you analyse the steel, are you a metallurgist ?

"But the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the
Norad controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data
is there for those who dig."

No, that is complete fantasy.

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@...>
wrote:
>
> Sorry, in the deluge of all the reasons I hear to go to
war, I
> only saw a couple of e-mails from a few certain people claiming
that the
> Jewish Lobby and Israel wanted the US to go to war, they never
responded or
> were able to share where their source of information was from, so
all I had
> was their personal hearsay, that they got it from someone they
trusted, as
> hearsay and that they themselves were as trustworthy as the person
who gave
> them the hearsay, so there was no need for me to question anything
they
> passed along. That is, they couldn't show me any independent data
to show
> that Israel and the Jewish Lobby screamed for the US to go to war,
much less
> any comments for this, in print. So I have just taken that as Jew
Bashing,
> happens all the time and a great many ludicrous things get dumped
on those
> of Jewish faith that maybe the Israel government may have wanted or
tried to
> do. Even though I haven't been the slightest fan of the Israeli
government
> since the attack on the USS Liberty, that hasn't colored my
feelings for
> individuals of Jewish faith.
>
> When there are hard facts, I gladly accept them, links where I can
do my own
> research, not stuff like the gOlem sends out where all references
go back to
> other stuff he wrote.
>
> So, if you have any hard facts, references I can read myself, that
show that
> the Jewish Lobby and the Israeli government actually pushed for the
US to go
> to war with countries that had no connection with the phantom 911
terrorists
> (like the 7 Saudi's… that are still alive, last seen in Saudi
Arabia itself)
> please share them. I make up my own mind. If this was a court of
law and I
> was a juror, I definitely couldn't give the death penalty on what
> information I have seen.
>
> -
> A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down
as
> controlled demolition.
>
> I don't understand that.
>
> You are basing trace amounts of explosives, lets say C-4 since it
is compact
> and easy to transport. A van load of it wouldn't have been enough
to take
> down all three of the WTC towers. Maybe one. No way the building
could have
> been rigged over night. Traditional demolition experts figured
weeks in a
> rush job, more likely months.
> So, How it was used, was what was found in their van of a
composition that
> could have made steel turn molten and remain in a liquid form for
days
> later?
> To turn this `suspect' evidence into some scientific fact, you'd
have to
> know if what they had, could have caused the results we saw and fit
in with
> the data we have gathered.
>
> As far as Faux News, I have no idea if they were one of the three
stations I
> watched most that morning, from about 8 minutes after the first
plane hit, I
> watched live newscasts, but Faux News, they are professional
revisionist
> story tellers, their news is to get their advertisers money, not to
tell the
> truth, in my personal opinion, they are trying to take the national
Enquirer
> 's business away. Their credibility ain't worth the airwaves they
broadcast
> over.
> They are my local station, I know first hand what they report and
what they
> rewrite. They turn peace marches into riots, when no such thing ever
> happened.
> What they showed on the 6 PM news (Pacific time) didn't even
compare with
> what I saw that morning between 8 AM and noon my time. Might have
just
> reported on something in a book of Fiction and called it truth. All
they got
> right was that a great many people died and that a great many
people were in
> shock.
>
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work
> place (One of the Towers) about construction work that had gone on
there for
> the three
> previous months, but please, share your data, and give your
theories,
> hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> I don't understand that either
>
>
> I have been told, by someone that worked in the WTC towers for
years, that
> there was construction going on for several months before 9/11 and
no one
> knew what it was, much of it was after hours.
> I use to be a building demolition junkie, I've seen hundreds of
film clips
> on this, I seen more than a few in person.
> Fire didn't take down the WTC towers, explosives as in a demolition
did.
>
> I have friends that are pilots, they referred me to several
buildings that
> jet liners had hit and then I researched those thoroughly. I
researched to
> see how many steel structure buildings had fallen from airplane
hits and the
> resulting fires. ZERO. I looked to see how many steel structured
buildings I
> could find that had fallen due to fires, maybe there was
more `interesting
> footage' like the three WTC towers. ZERO, no other steel structure
building
> has ever fallen from a fire even one induced by crashing a jet
liner into
> it.
>
> Yet I have seen a great many buildings demolished and what I saw
that
> morning, I was sure was a demolition job. After my research, I
couldn't only
> imagine how far off I was thinking of how blood thirsty those who
pulled
> this off were.
>
> I and my X wife read everything we could on the WTC towers after our
> daughter started work there, about 1998, we both were independently
aware
> that in the original articles of impeachment for Clinton one of the
articles
> was that a private plane had made it into NYC airspace, 12.5
minutes or
> something like that, and that was the only instance of the 10 minute
> response time having been violated in 12 years, before that it was
a 12
> minute response time, until 9/11/01 when it was closer to 1 hour
and 43
> minutes.
> Unfortunately, for my curiosity, to maintain her security
clearance, my
> daughter can't talk about anything other than her emotions that
day. If you
> have ever worked a federal government job, if you've ever been a
civilian
> whose company did contracts for the Government, you'll understand
her
> position and why I never pushed her for any other details.
>
> We know Cheney ordered the Colonel at Norad to stand down. We know
that with
> an inter office memo that Bush transferred the power that congress
had given
> to the president and the President only, to his Vice President,
Dick Cheney.
> We now know that Cheney was in charge of Norad that morning. Of
course no
> one needed to get GW to safety, it was an inside job. That is
data, those
> are things that can be found again and again in internet searches,
facts
> that can be verified, many articles written about them plus Cheney
direction
> Norad is in the 911 Commission report. They fucking aren't afraid
of those
> that do research, they control all the information superhighway
except the
> internet and who knows if we have days or years left there.
> I happened to be one of the few people who saw the live interview
of the
> Colonel, I heard it was under national security just like the half
dozen
> videos of what ever hit the pentagon. Yup, so my word is now
hearsay. But
> the 911 commission report telling about Cheney ordering the Norad
> controllers to stand down, not once, but three times, that data is
there for
> those who dig.
>
> I haven't researched the nitty gritty details that so many others
have, I
> have researched what I saw and heard in 4 hours that morning
watching 2
> different TV's and all I can find is that it is a darker more
sinister
> picture than I thought that morning.
>
> Se that light at the end of the tunnel over there?
> That is the door to the slaughter house.
> Follow the sheepeople, follow stuff that you can't verify as truth
yourself
> and that is where you are headed.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:26 PM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
>
> Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
is
> Israel?
>
> Iraq and Iran are/were the two biggest threats to the state of
> Israel's existence. The Jewish lobby and the Israeli government
> screamed loudest for the war
>
>
> I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
> Carlyle group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I
> am looking at the World Trade organization, I am looking at the
World
> health Organization.
>
> Yes, American criminals benefited too. Americans also helped with
> 9/11 they deserved some payback, don't you think ?
>
>
>
> Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
> when you say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the
USA,
> and 5 men with a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is
> suspect but….
>
> It's white hot suspect, absolutely correct, couldn't be much hotter.
> Israeli spies selling paintings were found to have addresses close
to
> the hijackers, this was reported on Fox news.
>
>
>
> A van full of C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down
as
> controlled demolition.
>
> I don't understand that.
>
>
> I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
work
> place about construction work that had gone on there for the three
> previous months, but please, share your data, and give your
theories,
> hopefully, separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
>
> I don't understand that either
>
>
>
> Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
> interviewed just after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that
> his superior ordered him to ground, not fuel or arm any of his
planes
> unless given further orders.
>
>
> Really, I didn't hear that.
>
>
>
> Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
> undisclosed place was the control room of Norad, as his control
> amounted to continually telling the operators there to let the
> aircraft through, to issue to warnings to the apparent targets and
> especially to not let any of our armed aircraft into the air that
> might interfere.
>
> Yes I understood that.
>
>
>
> I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want to
> be present at the execution.
>
> Cheney isn't even an israeli citizen, he's actually American. he is
a
> neocon and a member of the PNAC, both predominantly Jewish in
> character.
>
>
> Scott
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Can you share your data to prove that the main beneficiary of 9/11
> is
> > Israel?
> >
> > I'm looking at Halliburton, root and Brown, I'm looking at The
> Carlyle
> > group, I am looking at the US Military Industrial Complex, I am
> looking at
> > the World Trade organization, I am looking at the World health
> Organization.
> >
> > Now, some citizens of Israel might be in one of these groups, but
> when you
> > say Mossad, you are telling me that Israel attacked the USA, and 5
> men with
> > a vans that had trace amounts of explosives is suspect but…. A
van
> full of
> > C-4 placed in THREE WYTC towers, to bring them down as controlled
> > demolition.
> >
> > I have heard from someone that survived the destruction of their
> work place
> > about construction work that had gone on there for the three
> previous
> > months, but please, share your data, and give your theories,
> hopefully,
> > separating the proven hard facts from speculation.
> >
> > Oh yes, I saw the Colonel in charge of Norad for that are,
> interviewed just
> > after the first tower was hit, I heard him say that his superior
> ordered him
> > to ground, not fuel or arm any of his planes unless given further
> orders.
> >
> > Also, several years later the data came out that Cheney's secure
> undisclosed
> > place was the control room of Norad, as his control amounted to
> continually
> > telling the operators there to let the aircraft through, to issue
to
> > warnings to the apparent targets and especially to not let any of
> our armed
> > aircraft into the air that might interfere.
> >
> > I am dying to see your data showing that Cheney is Mossad, I want
> to be
> > present at the execution.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scol202
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
> > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Fw: Jew Baiting
> >
> > It does matter if five Mossad agents were caught red handed
> > celebrating the collapse of the towers with traces of explosives
in
> > their van. They failed several lie detector tests and the boss of
> the
> > company fled to Israel. The fact that an Israeli company was
warned
> > before the attacks matters too.
> >
> > The main beneficiary of the Iraq war was Israel and the only
> > beneficiary of the racist war on terror is Israel. It matters.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
> > <lhs_emf@> wrote:
> > >
> > > For anyone who actually cares about the truth to this continuing
> > misinformation being promoted here again by Eastman, (Eastman:
> > > essentially "my sampling - few Jews killed at the WTC 9/11/01")
> > check out the following.
> > >
> > > Here is a list of the names of those who died in the WTC. As a
> Jew,
> > I know what names are likely Jewish and which are not. I am not
> > > going to go thru all of them one by one and tell you which are
> > which. If you have been around a bit you will know on your own.
> > >
> > > Highlight the names to see the full name, very roughly at least
> 1/3
> > (conservatively) are Jewish.
> > >
> > > http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php
> > >
> > > Here is another discussion of this issue, with more links and an
> > analysis of the misinformation Eastman continues to spew. The
> > > estimate here is between 400 - 500 people of Jewish decent died
in
> > the WTC towers on 9/11/01. There are a series of articles
> > > debunking these lies via this link.
> > >
> > > http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=331277
> > >
> > > Moreover this issue, the tragedy which 9/11 is and represents
does
> > not have a dam thing to do with who is Jewish and who is not or
> > > how the events occurred or why they occurred again has nothing
to
> > do with Jews or Jewishness or Israel, or American Jews, or French
> > > Jews, or German Jews, etc. As I told you before its about money
> and
> > power. AGAIN, if you really want to have the background history
> > > to understand this event read John Loftus, read Webster Tarpley.
> > Educate yourself, don't be lazy, don't indulge in your prejudices.
> > > Learn that lesson and it will take you a long way in life. That
is
> > the most important lesson anyone can take from this discussion.
> > >
> > > Dick, if you really cared about the truth you would investigate
> the
> > truth about it and stop the lies. Are you admitting now below to
> > > laziness' rather than hatred? If that is your excuse, then ask
> > yourself if that is the standard you really want to live by and
use
> > > as a guide for your efforts in this or any or important study
when
> > you communicate with others about the important issues they
> > > should be aware of. You could not prove your assertion on this
> > issue but yet you repeated it again. What conclusion are we to
draw
> > > from that I wonder?
> > >
> > > Your statements have been shameful, stupid and most of all
wrong.
> > You ought to know that Jewish people like myself love this country
> > > as much as you do and we fight and die for it and have done so
> > throughout its history, and we devote ourselves to this country as
> > > much as you obviously think you do.
> > >
> > > But there is one big difference between all of us (who are
> rational
> > and concerned) and you, as one of a group of haters who have
> > > been writing in this caliber of trash to this message board. We
> > don't call people names based on race or religion, we don't make
up
> > > stupid theories about history based on simpleton ideas and
> > misinformation. We have learned the hard way not to keep hate in
> our
> > > hearts and we have learned just how thoughtless and dangerous it
> is
> > to go about life that way. We have seen the results and we don't
> > > want to see them again, no matter who the victim might be next
> > time. We take the time to learn and to understand and to be as
> > > accurate and honest with ourselves and others as we can be and
if
> > we do not know the truth we research it honestly and keep our
> > > mouths shut until we do know the truth, rather than go about
> > repeatedly making baseless statements which prove our ignorance to
> > > others.
> > >
> > > Dick, take the time when you write and think about these topic
to
> > make distinctions that are truly meaningful and accurate and
> > > constructive. When you do that we will all be grateful for your
> > efforts.
> > >
> > > Leslie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Eastman
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Leslie Schwartz
> > > To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:55 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Jew Baiting
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for
> those
> > with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was
> > > going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have
> wanted
> > the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long
> > > time, but that is not why the event happened.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Leslie Schwartz, yes I am Jewish and if don't like it you know
> > what you can do about it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets see Eastman prove just one if his hate based contentions,
> as
> > you said below, prove to us Eastman that no one of Jewish
> > > ethnicity or decent was killed in the 9/11/01 attack. If you can
> > prove that point Eastman then shut up and talk about what you can
> > > prove.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Leslie,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not in a position to prove that no one of Jewish
ethnicity
> > or decent was killed in 9/11/01 attack. The sampling of names I
> > > have seen (e.g. the long series on WTC deaths biographies that
> thre
> > New York Times ran) showed very few Jewish names in my
> > > ampling -- not the high ratio of Jewish names I would expect
for
> > New York City and the hub of finance and world trade. I do take
> > > the word of several sources on the internet that only two
Israelis
> > died. But no proof that there were no Jews killed at WTC -- only
> > > indications that there were too few than one would expect.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Some of the greatest people in the world have been Jewish --
I
> > have known great acts of mercy and generosity by Jews -- paying
> > > for an operation for my brother, simply because he wanted to.
My
> > favorite college professor -- my model of a good man -- is Jewish
> > > (Dr. Richard Glassman at LFC)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I often say "Jews" when the just discrimination would narrow
> that
> > to Mossad, or Zionists, or Neo-cons, or Likudniks -- or even
> > > more justly I should have narrowed it to this or that
> individual --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > so I am in the wrong -- but I am also mindful that I force
Jews
> > to ask themselves -- "is he right about me?" "am I allowing
> > > myself to be a part of or to go along with what Eastman is
> pointing
> > out (Neo-con Zionist guilt for 9-11)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a letter that will interest you:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, Al.
> > >
> > > Do you think 9-11 was an inside job?
> > >
> > > If so, do you think Zionist's in the White House, Pentagon,
> Israel
> > > had anything to do with it?
> > >
> > > Do you think their Zionism was a large part of their
motivation?
> > >
> > > I answer "yes" to all three questions and I have what I think
> > > is ample proof of each point.
> > >
> > > I never claimed to be sane or to know what sanity is -- but I
> > > understand evidence and can reach the logical implications
> > > that follow from sufficiently complete evidence.
> > >
> > > Any time you want to discuss the message and what it is
> > > based on, rather than the messenger -- I will be happy to
> > > walk you through what I have found.
> > >
> > > Here is a sample:
> > >
> > > http://bedoper.com/eastman
> > >
> > > I trust you are still the great investigator you were when we
> > corresponded so long ago.
> > >
> > > Maybe in better -- saner -- times we will compare notes again.
> I
> > could only gain.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > >
> > > Dick Eastman
> > > Yakima, Washinton
> > >
> > > P.S. as for the impotence of internet posting -- I am taken
in
> > by chaos theory
> > > and that one-quintillion-to-one shot that I just may be the
> > little butterfly who
> > > could. flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap flap ... --
DE
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <aelewis@>
> > > To: <foo@>; <anti-capitalism@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:48 PM
> > > Subject: [A-C] Re: Joni Ferris nails self-important Jew hater
> > Dick Eastman
> > >
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Yes, Joni, it does seem that Dick has become a rabid Jew-hater
> > > over the past several years. It was not always so. I have
> observed
> > > his posts over many months on anti-capitalism, as well as long
> ago
> > > (5 years ago) on other lists. It seems that the stress of his
> life
> > > (which has been considerable), combined with a latent inner
> > > scapegoat-ism and perhaps xenophobia (characteristic of
> > > right-wingers), has precipitated a psychic degeneration into
> > > Paranoid Personality Disorder (see below) with a special
> > > Jew-hating spin.
> > >
> > > (Note that I say "Jew-hating" rather than "anti-semitic". The
> > > bigtime anti-semitism in the world today is amongst the
> Zionists,
> > > the "Christian" Zionists, and other muslim-haters. Jew-hating
> is a
> > > special, narrow type of anti-semitism which ought to be
> > > distinguished from its parent.)
> > >
> > > It seems that Dick, like G L Rockwell (founder of the American
> > > Nazi Party), has yielded to "the ageless impulse of men and
> women
> > > eaten by the disease of hatred to find a political expression
or
> > > rationalization for their malady":
> > >
> > > . http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/ ---
> > > . "[Rockwell] drank too much, battled depression, was left by
> > > . several wives, became estranged from his family and spun
> > further
> > > . and further out of control; you'll wince at the passages in
> > which
> > > . his goodhearted brother and William F. Buckley, whom
Rockwell
> > > . hounded, try to get him help. In the succinct summation
from
> a
> > > . 1967 volume that that Simonelli cites, Rockwell gave in
> to 'the
> > > . ageless impulse of men and women eaten by the disease of
> > hatred to
> > > . find a political expression or rationalization for their
> > malady.'"
> > >
> > > I've watched this degeneration in several other people. Some
of
> > > them were quite acute thinkers and great writers, until their
> > > deterioration set in. In some cases it is hard to account for
> it.
> > > Though in Dick's case it is not so hard; he has been quite
open
> > > about the extreme stresses of his personal life. That,
combined
> as
> > > I say with a latent tendency, has added up to his current
> > > relentless stream of semi-demented anti-Jewish ravings and
> > > screechings. The anti-capitalism yahoo list has become a
> cesspool,
> > > unfortunately -- and largely on his account. What we have here
> is
> > > the anti-capitalism of Goebbels and Himmler, sputtering barely
> > > coherently about Jewish bankers' conspiracies. (And yes,
Jewish
> > > bankers ARE an important aspect of this mess; just that their
> > > badness does not inhere in their Jewishness.)
> > >
> > > There was something in me, years ago (circa 2001), that
flashed
> a
> > > warning sign, and I removed Dick from my email list and
> generally
> > > cut off communication. Somehow I sensed what was to come. And
it
> > > came! Oh, brother, did it come.
> > >
> > > The paranoia was evident in years past. For example, if a
> message
> > > of his was held up for a few hours, or just did not get
through,
> > > he would immediately conclude that it was because "they" were
> out
> > > to get him, and were denying him access to the chat boards or
> > > whatever. Of course, it IS possible that "they" (the
> > > establishment) might shut down people who are saying things
that
> > > they do not like. Indeed it has actually happened, and I
expect
> > > that it will happen increasingly. But for someone with
insight,
> it
> > > is very unlikely that "they" would so selectively target a
> single
> > > individual -- an individual with NO power, purchase or
> credibility
> > > in the circles where it counts. In other words, you'd have to
> be a
> > > tad nuts, or at least seriously lacking in insight, to think
> that
> > > "they" would go out of their way to shut you down when you are
> > > (pardon me) a pipsqueak ranter from Lower Bumfuck, Nebraska,
> > > posting on a list with 323 pipsqueak members like you and me.
> Yes,
> > > "they" exist -- and they don't give a good God Damn about
> > > Yahoo-group yahoos like us. Sorry.
> > >
> > > In charity, I will grant that the capitalist system generally
> does
> > > tend to make people crazy. The stress, combined with the toxic
> > > diet and outright environmental toxins, combined with the
sense
> of
> > > powerlessness (based on the REALITY of powerlessness),
combined
> > > with some personal bad breaks, can drive people nuts. Not hard
> to
> > > understand.
> > >
> > > And, perhaps Dick's personal degeneration was in some measure
> > > fueled by the actual (inexcusable) behavior of radical
Zionists,
> > > Likudniks and the like, who persistently refuse to take
> > > responsibility, and who deny their (very real and not just
> > > incidental) role in the current mess. Witness the brouhaha
just
> > > the last week or two over the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. The
Israel
> > > lobby not only does not want to take any responsibility, it
> wants
> > > to deny its own existence! THAT can drive people nuts, too.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > > PS: Note that Paranoid Personality Disorder (below) is NOT
> > > paranoid psychosis, with loss of contact with reality.
> Personality
> > > disorders are characterized by a somewhat tenuous grasp of
> reality
> > > (shall we say: "creative" personal representations of it!) --
> not
> > > with a loss of contact with it. It is more of a personal
> > > mind-style than a "disease"; see Hofstader's fine article:
> > > The Paranoid Style in American Politics
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-capitalism/message/18977
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > >
> > > http://mentalhelp.net/disorders/sx37.htm
> > >
> > > Paranoid Personality Disorder
> > >
> > > A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that
> their
> > > motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early
> > > adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated
by
> > > four (or more) of the following:
> > >
> > > 1. suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are
> exploiting,
> > > harming, or deceiving him or her
> > >
> > > 2. is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or
> > > trustworthiness of friends or associates
> > >
> > > 3. is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted
fear
> > > that the information will be used maliciously against him or
her
> > >
> > > 4. reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign
> > > remarks or events
> > >
> > > 5. persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of
insults,
> > > injuries, or slights
> > >
> > > 6. perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation
that
> > > are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to
> > > counterattack
> > >
> > > 7. has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding
> > > fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
> > >
> > > -----------------
> > >
> > > Criteria summarized from: American Psychiatric Association.
> > > (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders,
> > > fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric
> Association.
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > "From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem
of
> > > capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of
> > > criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." -- G K
Chesterton
> > >
> > > "You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily
> > > denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and
> > > well when you are visited by the police." -- J B R Yant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > a.. Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> > of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of
> > Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> > _____
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> _____
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:08:42 -0000
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Physicist says heat substance felled WTC

Susan Dean – Deseret Morning News April 10, 2006

Brigham Young University physicist said he now believes an incendiary
substance called thermite, bolstered by sulfur, was used to generate
exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center on 9/11, causing
the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.

"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very
clever idea," Steven Jones, professor of physics at BYU, told a
meeting of the Utah Academy of Science, Arts and Letters at Snow
College Friday.

The government requires standard explosives to contain tag elements
enabling them to be traced back to their manufacturers. But no tags
are required in aluminum and iron oxide, the materials used to make
thermite, he said. Nor, he said, are tags required in sulfur.

Jones is co-chairman, with James H. Fetzer, a distinguished professor
of philosophy at the University of Minnesota of Scholars for 9/11
Truth, a group of college faculty members who believe conspirators
other than pilots of the planes were directly involved in bringing
down New York's Trade Towers.

The group, which Jones said has 200 members, maintains a Web site at
www.st911.org A 40-page paper by Jones, along with other peer-
reviewed and non-reviewed academic papers, are posted on the site.

Last year, Jones presented various arguments for his theory that
explosives or incendiary devices were planted in the Trade Towers,
and in WTC 7, a smaller building in the Trade Center complex, and
that those materials, not planes crashing into the buildings, caused
the buildings to collapse.

At that time, he mentioned thermite as the possible explosive or
incendiary agent. But Friday, he said he is increasingly convinced
that thermite and sulfur were the root causes of the 9/11 disaster.

He told college professors and graduate students from throughout Utah
gathered for the academy meeting that while almost no fire, even one
ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the
combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot
knife through butter."

He ticked off several pieces of evidence for his thermite fire
theory:

First, he said, video showed a yellow, molten substance splashing off
the side of the south Trade Tower about 50 minutes after an airplane
hit it and a few minutes before it collapsed. Government
investigators ruled out the possibility of melting steel being the
source of the material because of the unlikelihood of steel melting.
The investigators said the molten material must have been aluminum
from the plane.

But, said Jones, molten aluminum is silvery. It never turns yellow.
The substance observed in the videos "just isn't aluminum," he said.
But, he said, thermite can cause steel to melt and become yellowish.

Second, he cited video pictures showing white ash rising from the
south tower near the dripping, liquefied metal. When thermite burns,
Jones said, it releases aluminum-oxide ash. The presence of both
yellow-white molten iron and aluminum oxide ash "are signature
characteristics of a thermite reaction," he said.

Another item of evidence, Jones said, is the fact that sulfur traces
were found in structural steel recovered from the Trade Towers. Jones
quoted the New York Times as saying sulfidization in the recovered
steel was "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the (official)
investigation." But, he said, sulfidization fits the theory that
sulfur was combined with thermite to make the thermite burn even
hotter than it ordinarily would.

Jones said a piece of building wreckage had a gray substance on the
outside that at one point had obviously been a dripping molten metal
or liquid. He said that after thermite turns steel or iron into a
molten form, and the metal hardens, it is gray.

He added that pools of molten metal were found beneath both trade
towers and the 47-story WTC 7. That fact, he said, was never
discussed in official investigation reports.

And even though WTC 7 was not connected to the Trade Towers — in
fact, there was another building between it and the towers —and even
though it was never hit by a plane, it collapsed. That suggests, he
said, that it came down because a thermite fire caused its structural
steel to fail.

Jones said his studies are confined to physical causes of the
collapses, and he doesn't like to speculate about who might have
entered the buildings and placed thermite and sulfur. But he said 10
to 20 people "in the know," plus other people who didn't know what
they were doing but did what they were told, could have placed
incendiary packages over several weeks.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html

Also see:
Y. professor thinks bombs, not planes, felled WTC
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3808

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:01:57 -0400
From: "Pat and Kelly Team Real Estate" <kelly@patandkelly.com>
Subject: Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION

i thought the collapse of the towers were strange that day, but in the end believed what i was told. then last year, when that high rise in madrid burned for hours, i was glued to cnn, waiting for it to fall. it did not. that did it for me! all my original questions from 9/11/2001 came flooding back.
----- Original Message -----
From: Naveed
To: 911truthaction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:18 AM
Subject: [911TruthAction] TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION

What made you realize there was something drastically wrong with the 9/11 story to which it brought you here?

just curious

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904

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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:49:49 EDT
From: NoRedCoats@aol.com
Subject: Re: TO ALL NEW MEMBERS A QUESTION

ANSWER:

"Stepford Wife-Types" are waking up from their slumber all over the country
on this 9-11 issue. We Americans are used to having someone else take care of
problems for us, hence many of us just want to believe whatever our
government tells us, as long as they look sincere and don't blink much when they lie
right to your face! We then happily go back to our daily lives sipping our
coffee and watch the idiot box for hours each and every day (in general). I
call it EMN (Electronic Mind Numbing)

Now you see the changes as millions take to the streets on the immigration
issue and Dick Cheney gets large Boo's at a major league baseball game. Sign
of the changing times!

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
Subject: Reply to TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII

Don't you even have a clue that the joint cheifs of staff are defense contractors, and are profiting from the war, and that 9/11 was engineered by the corrupt Bush Administration, especially the Dept. of Defense, and that 9/11 was the basis to enter the war, for defense contracts, 600 years of national debt to rob and conquer the U.S., and to take rights away through the Patriot Act. Get a clue???

kitty285 <kitty285@charter.net> wrote: Done...Kitty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
To: <911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove
Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII

> What are the next 3 Neo Con's in line for the presidency should we get rid
> of George and his Dick? Or after last week, I should say his Richard?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ranger116@webtv.net
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:45 PM
> To: ranger116@webtv.net
> Cc: openmindandcodenews@yahoogroups.com; Impeach-Bush@yahoogroups.com;
> HouseOfChing@yahoogroups.com; ElectionFraud2004@yahoogroups.com;
> CitizensForLegitimateGovernment@yahoogroups.com; CCCC-USA@yahoogroups.com;
> 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [911TruthAction] TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove
> Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII
>
>
> TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWW III
>
> Forward this to everyone and tell the U.S. Military Joint Chiefs of
> Staff (below) that you back their Removing Bush, Cheney Rumsfeld, Rice
> etc. from power immediately before they start WW III With Russia and
> China involved exchanging nuclear warhead missiles with the USA !
>
> Do it now -- This Is Not A Drill !!
>
> U.S. Military Joint Chiefs of Staff
> JCS Comment Form
> Address: http://jcs.mil/jcs_comment.html
>
>
> The Bush / Cheney Impeachment, Treason and War Crime trials can be done
> later, But this must be done Now !
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group " 911TruthAction
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911TruthAction> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> _____
>
>

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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
Subject: Reply to TimeToTell-"Joint Chiefs of Staff" Remove Bush/Cheney Now BeforeWWII

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

---------------------------------

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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Judy Cunningham <drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone working on activist projects here?

It is good to hear someone saying something intelligent, and something that can accomplish something, instead of just rants from their imaginations. Judy

Greg Nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com> wrote: I know Kevin has a new site...What are people up to or planning?
Here in VT we just had the Loose Change II crew and showed the film at
UVM to a large audience. We are also having Tarpley speak on the 27th
of April. The group, Burlington9/11 Action (created in the last 2
months) has already held two succesful events and is going for our
third. We are planning to protest General Dynamics and their ties to
9/11.

Could we all drop the Israel/Zionist bullshit and get back to fighting
Fascism and seeking justice for 9/11? This list is bordering on being
all delete material.

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

---------------------------------

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:43:12 -0000
From: "reggie501" <reggie501@optonline.net>
Subject: The Fraud of 9/11 - tvnl news updte

9/11 News : http://www.tvnewslies.org/news/#911

· Mr. Bush, We Know What You Did That Summer - September 11th, 2001 -
There are two groups of people in this world: those who believe the
official explanation of the events of September 11th, 2001, and those
who have examined the evidence and realize that the official version
of events totally unbelievable.

· Autopsy Links Cop's Death to 9/11 Work - The death of a 34-year-old
detective who developed respiratory disease after working at ground
zero is directly related to the Sept. 11 attacks, a coroner said in
the first known ruling that attributes a death to recovery work at the
World Trade Center site.

**The Fraud of 9/11: Unfinished Business - A cabal of Washington based
neoconservatives quickly seize the opportunity to correct this
situation. Thus, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) comes
into being. As a blueprint for global domination it advocates serial,
simultaneous and pre-emptive warfare as necessary to achieve this
goal. In other terms, the ultimate objective is to achieve "Global
Battlespace Dominance," more euphemistically known as "Full Spectrum
Dominance."

· Moussaoui judge won't make public Flight 93 cockpit recordings - The
judge in Zacarias Moussaoui's trial has decided that only those in the
courtroom will hear the 9/11 cockpit recording of United Airlines
Flight 93 -- the plane that crashed in a Pennsylvania field.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: mann david <dmann51@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone working on activist projects here?

Second that.. and keep up the good work.

--- Greg Nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know Kevin has a new site...What are people up to
> or planning?
> Here in VT we just had the Loose Change II crew and
> showed the film at
> UVM to a large audience. We are also having Tarpley
> speak on the 27th
> of April. The group, Burlington9/11 Action (created
> in the last 2
> months) has already held two succesful events and is
> going for our
> third. We are planning to protest General Dynamics
> and their ties to
> 9/11.
>
> Could we all drop the Israel/Zionist bullshit and
> get back to fighting
> Fascism and seeking justice for 9/11? This list is
> bordering on being
> all delete material.
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:32:19 -0000
From: "catsears_2000" <catsears_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Cellphones vs Airphones on 93

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/terrorism

In the news story above, from today, we learn that on 9/11 United Air
Lines Flight 93:

"The calls were summarized by a police officer testifying in the
Zacarias Moussaoui sentencing trial. Prosecutors said 37 phone calls
were made by 13 passengers and flight attendants, most of them using
air phones.

Two of the calls were from cellphones, including one made from one of
the plane's rear lavatories to a county sheriff's office in
Pennsylvania. Edward Felt, a passenger, barely was able to report that
there was a "hijacking in progress" when he was disconnected."

Wasn't the story supposed to be that cellphones were used? This is an
interesting new emphasis.

-Scott Meredith
/AlasBabylon list owner

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Urgent Request! TO ANYONE OR EVERYONE!

Naveed -- I think Nico's group (team8+.org, I think) has a special section devoted to upcominhg terror drills.

Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote: Does anybody have any knowledge of upcoming drills for "terrorist" activity?

Considering the KOOKOOS in district of criminals (Washington DC) are having media whores trumpet using mini nukes on Iran, this is the most dangerous timing for another larger false flag.

Not endorsing the ACLU but

Eternal Vigilance is the the price of freedom........have you paid?

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: Jew Baiting

Leslie -- I think they were a bit more than just an audience -- their van tested positive for explosive residue, and the entire Mossad-front moving company they belonged to immediately disappeared back to Israel. A bit strange if they were just there to watch.

Leslie Schwartz <lhs_emf@pacbell.net> wrote:

Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for those with the power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was going to happen and was on hand to see it go down. They have wanted the US to get involved in policing the middle east for a long time, but that is not why the event happened

"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

---------------------------------
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:07:57 -0500
From: "Leslie Schwartz" <lhs_emf@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Fw: Jew Baiting

1) I believe we have to confirm that the explosive powder found on
their persons or in their van were the same as the special thermite which is
now being reported as having the power to bring the buildings down.

2) I believe in another statement I agreed that mossad could have been
operationally involved, but also

3) I am sure you or no other sane person would assert that mossad
could order the US Air defenses to stand down, or create FEMA camouflaged
helicopters flying off US Navy ships which participated in the operation, or
etc. So whom ever was involved it goes well beyond mossad.

4) Just the fact that they were released so quickly shows that some
agencies of the US government were involved

5) Recall that just a few days after the event Bush went to CIA
headquarters and in a large gathering in their lobby was met by cheers and
jubilance among the entire crowd in attendance – what did they have to cheer
about?

6) If you have specific proof that mossad was the single agency
carrying out this attack, please present that information.

7) My statement below taken by itself seems to deny mossad operational
involvement and I do not believe that, I was speaking or writing
inaccurately when I wrote that statement below.

8) Oddly enough for me when I was living in California I bough some
paintings from that group of Israelis – they came to my house showed me
their offerings and I bought a few without having any idea who they really
were or what they were about.

Leslie

_____

From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jolly Roger
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:49 AM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting

Leslie -- I think they were a bit more than just an audience -- their van
tested positive for explosive residue, and the entire Mossad-front moving
company they belonged to immediately disappeared back to Israel. A bit
strange if they were just there to watch.

Leslie Schwartz <lhs_emf@pacbell.net> wrote:

Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for those with the
power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was going to happen and was
on hand to see it go down. They have wanted the US to get involved in
policing the middle east for a long time, but that is not why the event
happened

"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

_____

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:20:21 -0000
From: "scol202" <yahooboxx@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Jew Baiting

Leslie, no one claimed Mossad acted alone or that they had just
returned from putting the explosives in the building.

I personally believe Cheney was deeply involved. His and Rumsfeld's
connection to the neocons and membership of the PNAC is public
knowledge.

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Schwartz"
<lhs_emf@...> wrote:
>
> 1) I believe we have to confirm that the explosive powder
found on
> their persons or in their van were the same as the special thermite
which is
> now being reported as having the power to bring the buildings down.
>
> 2) I believe in another statement I agreed that mossad could
have been
> operationally involved, but also
>
> 3) I am sure you or no other sane person would assert that
mossad
> could order the US Air defenses to stand down, or create FEMA
camouflaged
> helicopters flying off US Navy ships which participated in the
operation, or
> etc. So whom ever was involved it goes well beyond mossad.
>
> 4) Just the fact that they were released so quickly shows
that some
> agencies of the US government were involved
>
> 5) Recall that just a few days after the event Bush went to
CIA
> headquarters and in a large gathering in their lobby was met by
cheers and
> jubilance among the entire crowd in attendance – what did they have
to cheer
> about?
>
> 6) If you have specific proof that mossad was the single
agency
> carrying out this attack, please present that information.
>
> 7) My statement below taken by itself seems to deny mossad
operational
> involvement and I do not believe that, I was speaking or writing
> inaccurately when I wrote that statement below.
>
> 8) Oddly enough for me when I was living in California I
bough some
> paintings from that group of Israelis – they came to my house
showed me
> their offerings and I bought a few without having any idea who they
really
> were or what they were about.
>
>
>
> Leslie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Jolly Roger
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:49 AM
> To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [911TruthAction] Fw: Jew Baiting
>
>
>
> Leslie -- I think they were a bit more than just an audience --
their van
> tested positive for explosive residue, and the entire Mossad-front
moving
> company they belonged to immediately disappeared back to Israel. A
bit
> strange if they were just there to watch.
>
> Leslie Schwartz <lhs_emf@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Its not about Israel not even a little bit about Israel for those
with the
> power to make things happen, Mossad just knew it was going to
happen and was
> on hand to see it go down. They have wanted the US to get involved
in
> policing the middle east for a long time, but that is not why the
event
> happened
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:26:18 -0500
From: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
Subject: A Day in the Life: 4/12/6

GOVERNMENT OF THE USA IN EXILE
Free Americans Reaching
Out to Amerika's Huddled Masses Yearning to Breathe Free

Via <prez@usa-exile.org>

April 12, 2006

NOTE: This sounds like another fake event to provide a rationale for
invading Venezuela; otherwise, how to explain that "the army was
waiting for the plane. . . but the pilot escaped"?

MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Mexican soldiers seized 51/2 tons of cocaine from a
commercial plane arriving from Venezuela, Mexico's Defense Department
announced Tuesday.

The army was waiting for the plane on Monday at the airport of Caudal
de Carmen, 550 miles east of Mexico City, after receiving information
from Venezuelan and U.S. authorities, Gen. Carols Dayton told a news
conference.

Soldiers arrested Colombian Mogul Vazquez, 47, who was the plane's
co-pilot, but the pilot escaped, Gaytan said. There were no passengers
abroad the aircraft.

U.S. and Mexican officials say that cocaine and heroin is increasingly
passing from Colombia through Venezuela to Mexico, where it is smuggled
into the United States. While drug traffickers used planes to smuggle
large quantities of drugs in the 1990s, most Mexican traffickers now
use land and sea.

A U.S. State Department report released in March said that Venezuela
has become a key transit point for drugs because of "rampant corruption
at the highest levels of law enforcement and a weak judicial system."

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez suspended cooperation with the U.S.
Drug Enforcement Administration in August, accusing its agents of
spying.

========================================================================
================================================================

From: "CLG News" <clg_news@legitgov.org>
Date: April 12, 2006 12:50:23 AM EST
To: "CLG News" <clg_news@legitgov.org>
Subject: Robo-Jet Plan to Strike Iran

News Update from Citizens for Legitimate Government
12 April 2006
http://www.legitgov.org/
http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

Robo-Jet Plan to Strike Iran --Bush prepares unmanned attack over nukes
10 Apr 2006 The Pentagon has secret plans for a "remote control" blitz
on Iran if it does not comply with demands to curb its nuclear
programme. Dozens of targets, including nuclear complexes deep
underground, would be destroyed by bunker-busting cruise missiles. And
assassinations of key personnel working on the installations are
planned using Hellfire rockets fired from unmanned Predator planes. The
Mirror learned details of the plans yesterday as Foreign Secretary Jack
Straw dismissed reports that Iran will be attacked with nuclear weapons
by the US... The three day blitz was planned in the past six months by
a small unit in the Defence Department.

Address to receive newsletter: http://www.legitgov.org/#subscribe_clg
Please write to: signup@legitgov.org for inquiries. lrp/mdr

=======================================================================
==================================================================

From: Henri the Celt <henrithecelt@gci.net>
Date: April 11, 2006 2:16:14 PM EST
To: AAAHenri <henrithecelt@gci.net>
Subject: Fw: Why they use Depleted Uranium Weapons

Why They Use Depleted Uranium Weapons

Greetings to all Email Update Members, From: Karl W B Schwarz

Here is what we are all up against, including you and those Christians
that still blindly follow Bush and turn into The Church of the
Quivering Brethren every time Washington, DC says “boo” or puts out
more fake news, more propaganda designed to instill fear.

Most of the people on this email update list are already awake
otherwise they would not be on this list. The following is for
those people that just cannot seem to get it straight between their
ears and in their heart that something is terribly amiss in our nation.

I read an interesting article over the weekend by David McGowan. He
asked some pointed questions, not for his email list but America in
general.

The Center for an Informed America
NEWSLETTER #81
April 7, 2006

"It Can't Happen Here" Edition

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr81.html

“At the risk of offending anyone out there, I really need to ask a
question here: what the hell is the matter with you people? And by “you
people,” I don’t mean specifically the regular readers of these
newsletters, but rather the American people in general. So to all you
John and Jane Q. Publics out there, let me rephrase the question: what
the hell does it take to get a reaction out of you?

I realize, of course, that there has been a serious dumbing-down of
American society and culture over the years. And I realize that
government operatives have virtually complete control over the flow of
information, so that virtually every thing you read, hear or see is, at
best, an approximation of reality. And I realize that you have been
systematically conditioned, over the course of many decades, to revere
the institutions of this society – the very same institutions whose
spokesmen are routinely called upon to serve you up a nice steaming
platter of lies.

None of that, however, fully explains the near complete paralysis of
the American people as a whole. So let me ask the question once again:
what the hell does it take to get a reaction out of you?”

I can relate to the frustrations that David McGowan is expressing. For
example, some have pledged funds to help get the DU Detoxification
Center operational but to date nothing has arrived. We are going to do
it because to do otherwise would be just more of the abandonment that
our soldiers have had to endure. With us, it is a matter of principle
and seeing to it that what is right gets done.

We see plenty of folks concerned about Global Warming, energy prices,
energy policies, air and water pollution, but few people take that
concern, and transform that concern into affirmative action.

Let CNN or FOXNews report that there was a tsunami in Indonesia, and
Americans donate over $1 billion to rush to their aid. Let an American
citizen advise America that over 1 million US soldiers have been
exposed to DU, many will die or be on total disability, totally ignored
by the US government and no one lifts a finger. Advise them that tens
of millions of Americans have been exposed to DU right here at home,
and many Americans put their heads even deeper into the sand.

It is bad enough that our government lies to us, but do we as a nation
have to buy off on it? I think not. Do we have to live under the
tyranny of lies? Only if we choose to do so and refuse to even
consider the truth. I know many people who refuse to believe anything
that is not on CNN or FOXNews, and worse, I know people who watch the
soap operas and believe it all as if they are watching “real life news”
on CNN or FOXNews.

I have even met some who profess that they are searching for the truth,
yet will reject every truth they find for some inexplicable reason. I
cannot say for you, but it is the lies that I find discomforting, not
the truth. I for one trust people who speak the truth and will
not follow any liar.

The news has broken that the Bush Administration paid out tens of
millions of taxpayer dollars for fake news. What part of that was not
understood by America at large? I have met some that still desperately
cling to those fake news stories as the Gospel.

The news has broken that the Pentagon has been involved in massive
campaigns to falsify intelligence and push propaganda on Americans so
they will still support these bogus wars. What part of THAT was not
understood by America at large?

The Bush Administration has been caught in one lie after another, and
even illegally spying on US citizens who disagree with his policies,
but WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

Are the yellow ribbons, the flag and acting patriotic to legitimize the
lies more important than the truth? That seems to be the case for many
Americans.

You see, I say it a little different than David McGowan – what does it
take to get you to believe the truth? What does it take to get America
to discern between the truth and the lies being told by our
government? What does it take to get America to reject lies?

What happened to America’s ability to think and know the difference
between right and wrong?

[snip]

America, the land of the free and home of the brave has turned into
295,000,000 opinions without a plan of action.

Being of German descent, I know fascism when I see it. This nation has
evolved into the Mussolini-style of economic fascism. Your voice and
your vote do not count, what the corporate thugs want is all that
matters to Washington, DC. You do not dig deep and fund those
campaigns, corporate America and the Wealthy Elite do. Overseas, our
military policies and blunt instrument war policies are no less fascist
than Hitler’s blitzkrieg. The DU Holocaust our government has wrought
is no less horrible than what happened in World War II.

Americans will donate a billion dollars to help tsunami victims yet not
donate a dollar to help over 1 million US soldiers that are dying and
wasting away due to DU.

Many Americans are waiting for the next episode of Shock & Awe as if
they are waiting for the Georgia – Alabama football game. They do not
seem to make the mental connection that people are dying in real time
and thanks to DU being in those weapons they will continue to die for
tens of thousands of years.

We use the DU weapons because they are efficient killers and we are the
great and all-knowing United States of America that cannot seem to get
anything right these days in Washington, DC.

Is living in an illusion, or worse a delusion, really preferable?

[snip]

========================================================================
=================

From: David West <davidgordonwest@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: April 11, 2006 5:52:00 AM EST
To: prez@usa-exile.org
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Thailand: What the US could learn

COMMENTARY
What the US could learn from Thailand
By Shawn W Crispin

BANGKOK - The similarities between the Thaksin and Bush administrations
in Thailand and the US respectively were always striking as the two
erstwhile allies drew closer in recent years. It's all the more so now
that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has been bumped from power by a
people-power movement that complained about his government's moral
bankruptcy.

Both Thaksin and President George W Bush rose to power under legally
dubious circumstances: while the US leader muscled his way to the top
through a Supreme Court intervention, the Thai premier won a landslide
victory two weeks after being convicted of concealing his assets by an
anti-corruption agency.

Both tough-talking leaders professed themselves to be "CEO-style"
leaders, a reference to their business backgrounds before entering
politics. That has often entailed running roughshod over the law in
pursuit of controversial policies, not the least state-sponsored
killing sprees. Thaksin's "war on drugs" campaign in 2003 witnessed the
extrajudicial killing of more than 2,200 drug suspects; the death toll
of Iraqis related to the US invasion now runs into the tens of
thousands.

Thaksin's bloody counter-insurgency campaign against Thai Muslims,
where more than 1,000 people have been killed since 2004, jibed nicely
with Bush's global campaign to ferret out extremists among Muslim
populations - seemingly at any human or moral cost. Ralph "Skip" Boyce,
the garrulous US ambassador to Thailand, has maintained that Washington
has in no way assisted Thaksin's controversial counter-insurgency
efforts, which, similar to US military operations in Iraq, have been
attended by allegations of torture and abuse of Muslim detainees.

Bangkok-based European and Asian diplomats, however, beg to differ,
claiming that the United States' behind-the-scenes role in the conflict
is an open secret in diplomatic circles. US officials first pushed
Thaksin to shore up security in Thailand's then-peaceful
majority-Muslim southernmost provinces after a group of alleged
al-Qaeda-linked operatives took refuge in the area in January 2002 from
crackdowns in Singapore and Malaysia, according to senior Thai
intelligence officials. It's still unclear what role US persuasion
played in tipping the historically tumultuous region back into
conflict.

Thaksin signed up early on to Bush's "war on terror", offering Thai
troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan in a quid pro quo exchange for a
bilateral free-trade agreement. But pressured by US officials, Thailand
agreed not to sign on to the International Criminal Court, which
conceivably would have the authority to convict US political and
military leaders for bald violations of the Geneva Conventions.

Bangkok-based US diplomats, who lambasted Thaksin for cracking down on
press freedom in 2001 and early 2002, drastically changed their tune
later in 2002, referring to Thaksin in glowing terms as a "strong
leader" and a "good ally". The Bush administration has since
manipulated and intimidated the US press, including the imprisonment of
journalists, in a manner strikingly similar to Thaksin's hard-knocks
campaign against the Thai media.

Partners in crime
Unfortunately, that relationship often pushed Thaksin and Thai security
forces into violating their own constitution. Thaksin's Thailand plays
host to a joint top-secret US Central Intelligence Agency-run
counter-terrorism center, charged with managing covert operations
throughout Southeast Asia, according to a senior Thai intelligence
official attached to the National Intelligence Agency. Those ties
appear to have paved the way for the CIA to establish a secret prison
in Thailand, where abducted terror suspects were allegedly held and
interrogated. Ambassador Boyce has repeatedly declined to comment on
the specifics of the secret detention center. (The facility was closed
down in 2003, according to the Washington Post.)

Thailand-based CIA agents apprehended and extradited to an undisclosed
location alleged al-Qaeda operative Hambali in August 2003. Thai legal
experts said Hambali's extradition violated habeas corpus provisions
outlined in Thailand's 1997 constitution because he was not formally
charged or convicted of a crime. When pressed about the legality of
Hambali's capture and subsequent detention, then US homeland-security
chief Tom Ridge said at a Bangkok press conference in 2004 that he
wasn't aware of Thai law. During a 2004 Bangkok visit where he
ceremoniously promoted Thailand to ally status, Bush referred to Police
Major-General Tritos Ranaridhvichai as "my hero" for his personal role
in Hambali's commando-style abduction.

The US has consistently supported Thai authorities' efforts in
prosecuting counter-terror operations, even when legally dubious.
Former US ambassador Darryl Johnson applauded Thai authorities in 2003
for detaining three Thai Muslims in Narathiwat province, who allegedly
plotted to bomb five Bangkok-based foreign embassies, including the US
Embassy. Johnson at the time said there was "strong evidence" against
the suspects, whom he characterized as "really bad guys" during an
embassy-sponsored US Independence Day party in Bangkok. After more than
two years in detention, all three suspects were freed by a Thai court
finally for lack of evidence. One of the suspects, a well-respected
medical doctor, is running and is expected to win a seat in the Thai
Senate this month.

As the Bush administration works to undermine the United Nations'
global authority and legitimacy, Thaksin has consistently lashed out
against UN agencies operating inside Thailand. In 2004, he forbade the
UN High Commissioner for Refugees to interview Myanmar refugees who
crossed the Thai border, and later sparred publicly with the
refugee-protection agency after it interviewed 131 Thai Muslim refugees
who had fled southern Thailand's brutal conflict for the safety of
northern Malaysia. Thaksin famously told a UN human-rights rapporteur
investigating abuse allegations of abuse during his war on drugs that
"the UN is not my father".

Allied abuse
Few of these well-documented abuses - often instigated, if not tacitly
supported, by the Bush administration - factored in the nationalistic
people-power movement that recently pushed Thaksin into stepping down.
Arguably they should have, as many of the political and legal
compromises Thaksin has made with the Bush administration have
represented blatant violations of Thailand's sovereignty. (Protesters
did rail against the US-Thailand FTA negotiations, which Thaksin had
conducted opaquely without consulting parliament and which, if
completed, will deprive hundreds of thousands of Thai HIV/AIDS
sufferers from the generic drugs the Thai government now produces under
a World Trade Organization-mandated compulsory-licensing agreement.)

Therein is the rub. Thailand and the US have distinctly different
brands and processes of democracy. When Thaksin's record of abuse and
self-enrichment became apparent to Bangkok's politically astute upper
and middle classes, they took their grievances to the streets and
refused to leave until real democracy was restored. Faced with popular
pressures, Thaksin's deputies now vow to implement a new round of
political reforms, including better checks on executive powers.

Although articulated through informal and somewhat rowdy channels,
protest politics have historically catapulted Thailand's democracy
ahead. This history includes the tumultuous street demonstrations in
1992 that eventually resulted in the passage of the 1997 constitution,
known locally as the "people's charter" and arguably one of the world's
most liberal constitutions. When democratically elected Thai leaders
work at odds with real democracy, Thailand has a time-tested relief
valve.

While the US preaches about the virtues of its model democracy,
Americans stay at home and passively watch on television the outrageous
debates concerning legalizing torture, official eavesdropping and
military-style abductions and detention without trial of terror
suspects. The few lonely protesters against Bush's increasingly
unpopular war in Iraq have been routinely rounded up and arrested for
staging peaceful sit-ins in front of the president's Texas ranch. The
mother of a fallen soldier was in January removed and arrested from the
Capitol Building during Bush's State of the Union address for wearing a
T-shirt emblazoned with the running number of troops killed in the Iraq
conflict.

The tolerance demonstrated by Thailand's police forces during the
recent anti-government rallies was in itself a testament to the
Southeast Asian country's democratic maturity. There were no arrests
and no violence, in what one popular commentator has described as
Thailand's "smooth as silk" democratic revolution. For all the
mainstream media criticism heaped on the people-power movement for
threatening the future of Thai democracy, the crowds that gathered on
Bangkok's streets assembled precisely to defend their hard-fought
democratic freedoms against an elected leader who they believed was
acting to undermine them. That's a claim the United States' lethargic
and fading democracy, for all its pretensions, can no longer honestly
make.

A top US diplomat said in private that Thaksin "was no longer suitable"
to US interests just before the embattled premier announced his
surprise resignation, according to a well-placed source. That change of
heart, however, is probably a reflection of more opportunistic US
diplomacy than an official recognition of Thailand's brave democratic
example.

With Thaksin's avowed departure, may future elected leaders stop
compromising the country's hard-won democracy in the service of the
United States' often illiberal and anti-democratic strategic interests.

Shawn W Crispin is Asia Times Online's Southeast Asia Editor

========================================================================
==============================================================

----------

Last Updated: Tuesday, 11 April 2006, 09:32 GMT 10:32 UK

Drug
firms 'inventing diseases'

Pharmaceutical firms are inventing diseases to sell more drugs,
researchers have warned.

Disease-mongering promotes non-existent diseases and exaggerates mild
problems to boost profits, the Public Library of Science Medicine
reported.

Researchers at Newcastle University in Australia said firms were
putting healthy people at risk by medicalising conditions such as
menopause.

But the pharmaceutical industry denied it invented diseases.

Report authors David Henry and Ray Moynihan criticised attempts to
convince the public in the US that 43% of women live with sexual
dysfunction.

They also said that risk factors like high cholesterol and
osteoporosis were being presented as diseases - and rare conditions
such as restless leg condition and mild problems of irritable bowel
syndrome were exaggerated.

The report said: "Disease-mongering is the selling of sickness that
widens the boundaries of illness and grows the markets for those who
sell and deliver treatments.

Campaigns

"It is exemplified mostly explicitly by many pharmaceutical
industry-funded disease awareness campaigns - more often designed to
sell drugs than to illuminate or to inform or educate about the
prevention of illness or the maintenance of health."

The researchers called on doctors, patients and support groups to be
aware of the marketing tactics of the pharmaceutical industry and for
more research into the way in which conditions are presented.

They added: "The motives of health professionals and health advocacy
groups may well be the welfare of patients, rather than any direct
self-interested financial benefit, but we believe that too often
marketers are able to crudely manipulate those motivations.

"Disentangling the different motivations of the different actors in
disease-mongering will be a key step towards a better understanding of
this phenomenon."

But Richard Ley, of the Association of the British Pharmaceutical
Industry, said the research was centred on the US where the drugs
industry had much more freedom to promote their products to the public.

"The way you can advertise is much more restricted in the UK so it is
wrong to extrapolate it.

"Also, it is not right to say the industry invents diseases, we don't.
It is up to doctors to decide what treatment to give people, we can't
tell them."

========================================================================
===============

From: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@nwinfo.net>
Date: April 11, 2006 11:45:46 PM EST
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: [911TruthAction] Doomsday Coming For U.S. Forces In Iraq? --
truth of military "scuttlebutt" is now being born out
Reply-To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com

Signs of the Times for Tue, 11 Apr 2006
Signs Editorial:

Is
Doomsday Coming for U.S. Forces in Iraq?

Magus
March 27, 2006 Updated April 8, 2006
Signs of the Times

Having many cherished friends, from many walks of life, a good listener
hears many different voices from many different sources. Let this
listener share with you those things he has been told of late from many
whom he dearly loves and does not want to lose. They, all those human
beings who dare to Be and to Love, in this brief whirl of endless
doubts we think of as life, are precious, and the Shadow now falling
over far too many of them on the blood soaked sands of Iraq seems very
dark and dire.

It is not yet possible to provide enough hard data to fully support the
following speculations. It is all told by way of "scuttlebutt" from
rank and file, military-on-the-job rumors, and old fashioned soldiers'
and sailors' gossip and intuitions. It is offered in that "for what
it's worth" category, in the hopes that it will make a few more folks
think about the hell on Earth that is the day to day reality for U.S.
"boots on the ground" in Iraq.

In general, my experiences over many years of close friendships with
honorable, career military and National Guard members, from among both
officers and non-commissioned personnel, have proven that the
"scuttlebutt" is often more accurate than the official line being
handed out from the current CentCom. That was certainly true in
Vietnam, and the similarities between Iraq and "The Nam" are abundant.

Remember, however, this is only "scuttlebutt." Do not take it as fact
but as food for thought, and perhaps as a warning.

In Iraq, many, perhaps most, of the American forces in the forward
operations areas are essentially pinned down. They stay huddled for
safety within their small, fortified (as best possible) bunkers and
camps, both rural and urban, emerging only upon direct commands, to
conduct their assigned patrols and sweeps while looking first and ever
more exclusively to their own survival in all regards. They are
literally stressed and terrified out of their minds, and most of them
are also physically ill, many seriously so, from the effects of
Depleted Uranium poisoning. Many of them, especially with their
psychopathic "leaders" giving them almost carte blanche to do such,
have taken on a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" modus operendi,
at all times and in all circumstances when they're outside of their
bunkers.

The truth of this "scuttlebutt" is now being born out by numerous Iraqi
eyewitnesses and by the latest statements and sworn testimony coming
from members of Iraq Veterans Against the War and in a Canadian
courtroom where an American army deserter is pleading for political
asylum to keep from returning for another tour of duty in Iraq. Those
soldiers who do still have empathy and conscience alive within
themselves post Iraq War will suffer hell's own psychological and
spiritual torments for the rest of their lives, as have a majority of
Vietnam combat veterans. Their having either engaged in or witnessed
daily massacres of civilians, including women and children, will leave
them broken for life in the deepest parts of themselves. But, their
having been driven to the point of unflinching barbarity in Iraq is
also very understandable, just as it was among combat troops in Vietnam
where the "kill 'em all" sobriquet originated.

These days, the areas they "patrol and sweep" are growing smaller, and
their unit actions becoming shorter and more perilous, as they go about
the impossible task of "clearing" each day's designated areas of IEDs
and "insurgents." The conditions of their daily lives are deplorable.
The rate of suicides among them is astronomical, setting an all time
record for any U.S. military deployments, in any war or other combat
action ever. Some of the oldest among National Guard members now in
Iraq were forced back into active duty after having been retired for
years. Their ages go up to and include some members who are in their
fifties and even a few field medics and nurses in their early sixties.
Thus some now in Iraq were there, in The Nam. They know of what they
speak, and they say it is even worse in Iraq now than it was in Vietnam
in the months before the end.

In many of the Forward Operations Bases or Camps, American soldiers do
not dependably receive enough daily drinking water, let alone water
enough for washing, and for many there are still no regular showers.
For the most remote locations, there are no showers at all, not even
with the foul, recycled and often unsafe "yellow water" that has become
notorious among U.S. troops' Iraq war tales. Many bivouacs have no air
conditioning and most are in areas where there is no electricity for
most of the time, which is true throughout nearly all of Iraq outside
of the Green Zone.

Having their own generators doesn't help them much when the fuel
supplies can't and often don't get through the heavy fields of fire and
explosives from the Iraqi resistence. Some U.S. troops in Iraq even
lack for adequate supplies of MREs episodically, let alone of fresh
foods. They are sometimes left hungry at the end of their long,
desperate days, an awful insult added to all the other dangers and
deprivations of their days and nights. They are often without laundry
facilities, without real beds as opposed to cots, and even without
flush toilets in some isolated camps.

They are supposedly rotated out of the grueling forward positions to
the large, new bases already finished, (almost 8 of them now) every two
to four weeks, but the operative phrase on that is always "if
possible." Their successful rotation to more tolerable conditions
largely depends on the current "heat" of the resistence around a
particular forward base. Some units deployed, especially in the more
remote and heavily resistence dominated areas, have now been virtual
prisoners, out in the deserts, for several months.

Rumor has it that upwards of 5,500 U.S. combat troops have walked out
of Iraq, into adjacent countries such as Turkey, Iran and Syria, and
have kept on going from there to places in Europe and elsewhere. They
were largely from among those units stuck in the farthest, most
isolated positions, and the scuttlebutt says that the Iraqi resistence
fighters have even helped some of them to get across the borders and
have provided them with food, water, contacts and money for the
journey. On several occassions, by the time the transport helicopters
came in to take them out to one of the big new bases for a break, the
entire unit was gone but for one or two die hards.

It was the U.S. occupation's own "back" that really got broken at
Fallujah. Please note the steadily shrinking sizes and numbers of
cleverly named U.S. military assaults and initiatives that have taken
place since then. The annihilation of Fallujah, and the U.S.'s massive
slaughter of innocent civilians there, increased support for the
resistence to almost 100% among the Iraqi people. It is most accurate
to say that the American combat forces in Iraq are now largely fighting
a defensive war. Those with a knowledge of military tactics and history
will recognize that to be the worst possible position an invading and
then occupying army can get into. To have that be the case this long
after the initial invasion, when neither the troops nor their equipment
are able to operate at anywhere near to peak condition and efficiency,
is even worse.

In addition to the other shortages the troops on the front lines face
in these bases, they are also short on ammunition. Despite all of the
Bush administration's propganda to the contrary, the resistence owns
the highways and roads of Iraq, with the possible exceptions of a very
few and very shaky stretches in and around the "Green Zone" and, maybe,
maybe not, the main airport road out of Baghdad. The military's ability
to resupply its forward troops is rapidly approaching nil. The remote
troops are being kept alive by air drops delivering almost everything
that does reach them now.

Unfortunately, the anti-aircraft fire from the resistence, always
present and heavy, from at least small arms, surrounds the U.S. forward
bases and is especially strong near the most remote and smallest ones.
For that reason, the drops of supplies to forward combat units are not
as precise as they need to be in order to keep supply levels adequate,
and some things like diesel fuel, gasoline and ammunition cannot be air
dropped regularly or at all. Again, despite the official reports, the
recent increases in helicopter "crashes" shows the growing prowess of
the Iraqi fighters in bringing them down.

Note too that, except for numerous and frequently fatal vehicular
"accidents," there has been scant media or press mention lately of the
U.S. military's huge convoys of transport trucks that were formerly
hauling supplies to the U.S. troops from the depots and distribution
centers in Kuwait and at the Baghdad airport and the new air bases.
They have not been rolling very reliably since just after Fallujah. The
U.S. troop and supply convoys cannot safely travel in Iraq these days,
nor keep any kind of a regular schedule, partly due to the increasing
resistence skills in stopping them by causing roll overs and other
"accidents," and partly because the vehicles themselves are worn out
beyond any safe usage.

The military's equipment is all used up, and there is not a steady
stream of replacement materiels coming in, quite the contrary. While
the mercenary companies have grown richer than Croesius, the National
Guard, Reserves and regular military have gone broke. In person-power,
weapons, vehicles, tanks, ammunition, body armor, ordinance, and all
else, the U.S. military is drained dry and used up, even to being short
on replacement uniforms for active duty combat troops. U.S. soldiers
are often caught on camera these days in heavily patched uniforms.
Close scrutiny of the next cable or network news clips of frontline
soldiers may prove quite revealing.
More-
http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/
signs20060411_IsDoomsdayComingForUSForcesInIraq.php

========================================================================
===============================================================

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Discussion about 09/11/2001

Thursday, April 13, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1222

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