Discussion about 09/11/2001: [911InsideJobbers] Digest Number 398

Friday, February 24, 2006

[911InsideJobbers] Digest Number 398

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?
From: "perpetualynquisitive" <perpetualynquisitive@yahoo.com>
2. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
3. Re: Re: Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
4. [Fwd: Possibly, just following orders?]
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
5. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
6. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
7. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
8. Greg Sz. faked Morgan Reynolds interview
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
9. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
10. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
11. Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
12. [Fwd: RE: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]]
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
13. Fetzer/Jones/Reynolds on Noory
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
14. A slam dunk. Once the doors slammed shut - that was it.
From: "ron_winn" <ron_winn@lineone.net>
15. Paul Thompson and his new 'Saudi Ties'
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
16. Re: A slam dunk. Once the doors slammed shut - that was it.
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
17. WBAI offering the "9/11 Inside Job" info pack as premium
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
18. ooops ... that was WBAI last nite.
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
19. "IN YOUR FACE AMY GOODMAN !" (KPFK announcer)
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
20. Re: Paul Thompson and his new 'Saudi Ties'
From: "inphoman911" <inphoman911@yahoo.com>
21. [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]]]
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
22. Re: What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11 Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?
From: "ron_winn" <ron_winn@lineone.net>
23. Re: GERMAN TABLOID ABOUT Relationship between ATTA and Amanda Keller in Venice/F
From: "Bill Giltner" <bill.giltner@gmail.com>
24. [Fwd: "Yeah, but can I bring my toothbrush?"]
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
25. Re: What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11 Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?
From: "Total Information" <totalinfo@gmail.com>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:24:29 -0000
From: "perpetualynquisitive" <perpetualynquisitive@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?

Nico, check that link that I sent to you. The
911-Chronology-Source-Live-TV-Coverage-Split-Screen.mpeg starts with
CNN at 8:49am. The Fox coverage is delayed (right side) and doesn't
start until about 3:30.

Been rooting through my archives to get all the clips I want to put in
my presentation and I keep finding more gems.

--- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@...>
wrote:
>
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@...>
> > An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?
> > Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:30:48 -0600
> >
>
>
> okay, cool thx :)
> so i was right, there are different audio dubs around...
> I'm still hunting for complete first U.S.-CNN-broadcast from 8:45 to
9:15
> without any interruption :(
>
> maybe it's
> here:
>
http://www.archive.org/download/911-Chronology-Source/911-Chronology-Source-Live-TV-Coverage-Split-Screen.mpeg
> http://www.archive.org/details/911-Chronology-Source
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>This is a fake cartoon. Fake cartoons don't have soundtracks, so
they
> cobbled together something.
> The audio does morph from clip to clip, but I'm not likely to be the one
> hunting different versions.
> Maybe Scott Loughrey knows which clips have different audio.
>
>
> Nico Haupt wrote:
> > Rosalee,
> >
> > i rewatched some CNN "exclusive" 2nd hit clips again and was confused,
> > why one clip included now two dudes, bringing the "holy s**t"
thing again.
> > I recall a different audio dub and not these dudes. Please advise.
> >
> >
> > Second crash into the World Trade Center.
> >
javascript:new_vod('/video/us/2001/09/11/exclusive.crash.cnn.med.html')
> >
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/day.video.09.html#11th<<<
>
> --
> DSL-Aktion wegen großer Nachfrage bis 28.2.2006 verlängert:
> GMX DSL-Flatrate 1 Jahr kostenlos* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:30:36 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all

Check how this thread finished out.

This is just too hilarious.
At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article, which is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.

Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the thread regularly.
In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin immolating itself with a gallon of jet fuel.

and poof it was gone.
(the later appearance was Nico on a prank)

It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.

Bill Giltner wrote:
> I agree. Great work.
>
> I do have a small question. Going forward, when debunking Pop.
> Mechanics, is it really a good policy to use the Chertoff cousin
> connection.
>
> I saw how it was responed to here:
>
> http://www.infidelguy.com/ftopic-10044-days0-orderasc-15.html
>
> I don't for a moment say that the Pop. Mechanics article was
> anything other than orchestated from a high 911 insider position.
> However, I think the case for how it was orchestrated can be made by
> pointing out how a huge amount of staff at PM was replaced prior to
> the publication (and other issues like that). I find the cousin
> thing, although likely true, gives off a smell of Flocco-like
> stories...
>
> --- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Nixon" <nxngrg@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Kudos to Gerard and Rosalee for some of the most enetertaining
>> and enlightening troll trampling technique I have ever witnessed!
>>
>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
>>
>> "Sky Cretin" and "Architect" are not your ordinary trolls indeed,
>>
> i
>
>> think they are writing the playbook. I see the SAME approach in
>>
> ALL
>
>> the other forums where trolls are trolling.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:38:15 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Re: Re: Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: "perpetualynquisitive" <perpetualynquisitive@yahoo.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Different CNN audio dub 2nd hit?
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:24:29 -0000
>

yeah, i am already downloading in my second office, where i am alone -:)

Takes a while here, coz i use wifi with own notebook,
dont wanna hook into our logfiles.
If i don't get the whole package here, i'll try again at home with cable D/L

great :)

>>>Nico, check that link that I sent to you. The
911-Chronology-Source-Live-TV-Coverage-Split-Screen.mpeg starts with
CNN at 8:49am. The Fox coverage is delayed (right side) and doesn't
start until about 3:30.

Been rooting through my archives to get all the clips I want to put in
my presentation and I keep finding more gems. <<<

--
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[This message contained attachments]

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:57:50 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Possibly, just following orders?]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Possibly, just following orders?
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:51:45 -0600
From: Billy-Joe: Mauldin <wildbill2@vcmails.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>

*WHY WERE THESE MEN _PROMOTED_ WITHIN DAYS OF THEIR SPECTACULAR FAILURES
AS COMMANDERS OF THIS NATION?S DEFENSE FORCES?
*

*The 9/11 attack saw the largest failure to protect the civilian
population from attack in this nation's history.

This failure is stunning given the awesome capabilities of our
trillion-dollar space- and ground-based air defense system?by far the
best and most sophisticated on the planet.

The evidence is clear that the two top generals who were in charge of
the nation?s defenses on that day screwed up royally.

Yet, they were promoted within days for their spectacular failures...

_1. GENERAL RICHARD MYERS
_*

*General Richard Myers was acting head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on
9/11/01. He stated to the 9/11 Commission that he went into a meeting
with **Senator Max Cleland after the first WTC tower was hit, _and
stayed there until just after the Pentagon was hit ? OVER AN HOUR_!

During this time, he never once asked WHO the enemy was or WHAT KIND of
attack the nation was under (not surprising, I suppose, given that his
commander-in-chief was similarly nonchalant, and immersed in a tome
about a pet goat during this exact time period).

One can only assume General Myers? meeting with Senator Cleland was more
important than the ongoing multiple attacks on the nation.

Two days after the attack, Myers was asked some softball questions by
the Senate Armed Services Committee, and promoted to Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff.

*NB: In the thick of these attacks, and under this general?s piercing
watch, the SAM (Surface-to-Air Missile) batteries deployed around the
Pentagon to protect this nation?s military nerve center were
mysteriously deactivated?or certainly appeared to have been. Had they
not, the SAM radar would have identified the incoming ?Boeing 757? as an
enemy penetrator and automatically initiated launch. That?s what the
system is programmed to do.

But there is another reason why SAMs may not have been launched: By its
?friendly? IFF transponder squawk, the incoming ?aircraft? was
identified by SAM radar as being of US military origin, and fire was
automatically held per its program.

In other words, the SAMs are programmed NOT to fire against US military
aircraft (or any aircraft equipped with a US military transponder).
Besides our standard arsenal of military aircraft, unconventional types
such as UCAVs, cruise missiles and yes, Global Hawks, also fall into
this category of ?friendlies? and are immune from retaliatory action.

Bottom line: If what hit the Pentagon was American Flight 77, it would
have been blown to bits before it got anywhere near the building.

It was also under General Myers? watchful eye that the external ?eyes?
of the Pentagon?forty high-resolution television security cameras,
mounted along the roofline around the perimeter of the building?were
also mysteriously turned off that day.

They had to have been?we?re told they saw nothing.

But there were three security cameras some distance away that were
perfectly positioned to have seen /everything/. These were located at a
nearby Citgo gas station, the Hilton Hotel, and atop a pole on highway
I-135. Their tapes were confiscated by FBI agents within minutes of the
crash, never to be seen again. If only General Myers would kindly
release these videos, the world would have a front-row view of what
exactly struck the Pentagon that day. Then we could put this whole
?conspiracy theory? about the 757 to bed for good.
*/
/**/

*_2. GENERAL RALPH EBERHART
_

*
*General Ralph Eberhart was in charge of NORAD on 9/11. NORAD's
Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center maintains up-to-the-_second_
monitoring of airspace over the US and Canada.

It?s been claimed of NORAD?s formidable surveillance apparatus that it
is able to identify and track ANY airborne contraption **? metallic or
otherwise, large or small, transponder on or off ? anywhere and at any
altitude in American or Canadian airspace.

Scrambles to intercept wayward aircraft are standard and routine
practice for NORAD?there were a total of 67 scrambles in the year
preceding 9/11.

That?s roughly a scramble _every six days_.

Any aircraft that deviates from its designated course for more than 3
minutes is considered a threat, and immediately red-flagged on all FAA
and NORAD radar screens. Fighter aircraft are then scrambled _within 6
minutes_, in full afterburner, to intercept these ?threats?.

This is standard operating procedure. Many of the 67 intercepts in the
preceding year involved /single-engined light aircraft/ that had strayed
off course.

On September 11, 2001, FOUR 100-TON AIRLINERS merrily traipsed about the
American skies for almost TWO HOURS, _yet not a single fighter was
scrambled to intercept any of them_ (Actually, 2 were?but they were
?accidentally? directed over the Atlantic).

General Eberhart?s vigilant warriors at NORAD should have easily tracked
the unfolding attack from 8:20, when Flight 11 went off course, to
10:06, when Flight 93 ?crashed?.

Yet, instead of scrambling fighters from bases near the targets, or
calling for intercepts from multiple bases, _Eberhart?s commanders chose
a few far-away bases, thereby ensuring help would never arrive on time_.

To make doubly sure they?d be running late for their rendezvous, the
scrambled F-16s, which have a top speed of over 1400 mph, sauntered
along at a leisurely half-throttle 700 mph.

For this mind-boggling display of ?incompetence?, Eberhart was promoted
to head the new "Northern Command" established in October of 2002.

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:11:02 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:30:36 -0600
>

Awesome: )

The latest "full headers" is reverse-IPing 'SkyCretin' now back to
IP: 68.68.42.183
Country: United States
City: Burlington, Vermont

ADELPHIA-AS2

latest check blocked by firewall:

10 28 32 26 26 ms [+0ms]

24.48.204.194 AS19548
ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0] 245 US Unix:
21:47:05.718
11 46 30 32 30 ms [+3ms]

68.170.144.182 AS19548
ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0] 244 US Unix:
21:47:07.958
12 * * * 99999 ms [+99999ms]

[Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]

13 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]

[Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]

14 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]

[Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]

15 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]

[Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond]
[4 hops with no response:
assuming we hit a firewall
that blocks pings] -1 miles [+0]

>>>>http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all

Check how this thread finished out.

This is just too hilarious.
At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article, which
is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.

Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the thread
regularly.
In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin immolating
itself with a gallon of jet fuel.

and poof it was gone.
(the later appearance was Nico on a prank)

It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.<<<

--
10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++

[This message contained attachments]

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

Translation please. Where is "sky king's' location?

Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li> wrote:
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:30:36 -0600
>

Awesome: )

The latest "full headers" is reverse-IPing 'SkyCretin' now back to
IP: 68.68.42.183
Country: United States
City: Burlington, Vermont

ADELPHIA-AS2

latest check blocked by firewall:

>>>>http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all

Check how this thread finished out.

This is just too hilarious.
At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article, which
is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.

Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the thread
regularly.
In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin immolating
itself with a gallon of jet fuel.

and poof it was gone.
(the later appearance was Nico on a prank)

It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.<<<

--
10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++

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http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all

Check how this thread finished out.

This is just too hilarious.
At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article, which is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.

Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the thread regularly.
In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin immolating itself with a gallon of jet fuel.

and poof it was gone.
(the later appearance was Nico on a prank)

It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:25:32 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:17:37 -0800 (PST)

Location is not sure, if he spoofed the IP.
If he didn't spoof, then it could be indeed vermont,
therefore right around your corner:)

Other traces have him in Fremont, CA though.

I'm waiting for some other "full headers" of Lynn.
I believe this committee is spoofing though and just logs in everywhere.

Therefore he could be also in Sydney or DC or wherever. I think, they're all
some geeks from everywhere, maybe some hired Rendon Group Geeks, somewhere
brainwashed in Falls Church, VA or Fort Meade or whereever, LOL :)

> Translation please. Where is "sky king's' location?
>
>
> Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li> wrote:
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
> > An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> > Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:30:36 -0600
> >
>
> Awesome: )
>
> The latest "full headers" is reverse-IPing 'SkyCretin' now back to
> IP: 68.68.42.183
> Country: United States
> City: Burlington, Vermont
>
> ADELPHIA-AS2
>
>
> latest check blocked by firewall:
>
> 10 28 32 26 26 ms [+0ms]
>
> 24.48.204.194 AS19548
> ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]
> 245 US Unix:
> 21:47:05.718
> 11 46 30 32 30 ms [+3ms]
>
> 68.170.144.182 AS19548
> ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]
> 244 US Unix:
> 21:47:07.958
> 12 * * * 99999 ms [+99999ms]
>
> [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> [+0] 0 miles [+0]
>
> 13 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
>
> [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> [+0] 0 miles [+0]
>
> 14 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
>
> [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> [+0] 0 miles [+0]
>
> 15 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
>
> [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond]
> [4 hops with no response:
> assuming we hit a firewall
> that blocks pings] -1 miles [+0]
>
> >>>>http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
>
> Check how this thread finished out.
>
> This is just too hilarious.
> At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article,
> which
> is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.
>
> Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the
> thread
> regularly.
> In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin
> immolating
> itself with a gallon of jet fuel.
>
> and poof it was gone.
> (the later appearance was Nico on a prank)
>
> It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.<<<
>
> --
> 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
> +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Government procurement Government leasing Government grants
> for women Government lease Government contract Government money
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "911InsideJobbers" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 911InsideJobbers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
>
> Check how this thread finished out.
>
> This is just too hilarious.
> At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article,
> which is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.
>
> Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the
> thread regularly.
> In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin
> immolating itself with a gallon of jet fuel.
>
> and poof it was gone.
> (the later appearance was Nico on a prank)
>
> It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.
>
>
>
> Bill Giltner wrote:
> > I agree. Great work.
> >
> > I do have a small question. Going forward, when debunking Pop.
> > Mechanics, is it really a good policy to use the Chertoff cousin
> > connection.
> >
> > I saw how it was responed to here:
> >
> > http://www.infidelguy.com/ftopic-10044-days0-orderasc-15.html
> >
> > I don't for a moment say that the Pop. Mechanics article was
> > anything other than orchestated from a high 911 insider position.
> > However, I think the case for how it was orchestrated can be made by
> > pointing out how a huge amount of staff at PM was replaced prior to
> > the publication (and other issues like that). I find the cousin
> > thing, although likely true, gives off a smell of Flocco-like
> > stories...
> >
> > --- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Nixon" <nxngrg@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Kudos to Gerard and Rosalee for some of the most enetertaining
> >> and enlightening troll trampling technique I have ever witnessed!
> >>
> >> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
> >>
> >> "Sky Cretin" and "Architect" are not your ordinary trolls indeed,
> >>
> > i
> >
> >> think they are writing the playbook. I see the SAME approach in
> >>
> > ALL
> >
> >> the other forums where trolls are trolling.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:30:44 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Greg Sz. faked Morgan Reynolds interview

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/szymanski.html
February 23, 2006

"...According to Mr. Reynolds: "In June [2005] Syzmanski made up a fake
interview with me by taking sentences from my June 9 article, albeit lifted
accurately, written as if in conversation while claiming that he interviewed
me by telephone from my A&M office, a bald lie. That caused some problems
because "unfriendlies" claimed I lied about having an A&M office rather than
writer Syzmanski. He pursued me and apologized privately, but not publicly.
He claimed credit for getting the mainstream to look at my article. So I
understand that his stuff cannot be relied on without corroboration
elsewhere..."

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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:32:46 -0800 (PST)
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

Interesting, right across my condo complex is this ISO (Intl. Socialist...) Northeastern chapter leader and I am sure the guy is a fed since ISO is a COINTLEPRO front. I have been having critical computer problems lately and I suspect this asshole has tampered with my system. His name is Ashley Smith and his wireless network is visable to mine.

Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li> wrote: > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:17:37 -0800 (PST)

Location is not sure, if he spoofed the IP.
If he didn't spoof, then it could be indeed vermont,
therefore right around your corner:)

Other traces have him in Fremont, CA though.

I'm waiting for some other "full headers" of Lynn.
I believe this committee is spoofing though and just logs in everywhere.

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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:38:19 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

"ashley" maybe it's a spook insider code, since Victoria Ashley ( a
Candy Jones type Mind Control victim name) has Ashley in it's name too.

greg nixon wrote:
> Interesting, right across my condo complex is this ISO (Intl.
> Socialist...) Northeastern chapter leader and I am sure the guy is a
> fed since ISO is a COINTLEPRO front. I have been having critical
> computer problems lately and I suspect this asshole has tampered with
> my system. His name is Ashley Smith and his wireless network is
> visable to mine.
>
> */Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li>/* wrote:
>
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
> > An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> > Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:17:37 -0800 (PST)
>
>
> Location is not sure, if he spoofed the IP.
> If he didn't spoof, then it could be indeed vermont,
> therefore right around your corner:)
>
> Other traces have him in Fremont, CA though.
>
> I'm waiting for some other "full headers" of Lynn.
> I believe this committee is spoofing though and just logs in
> everywhere.
>
> Therefore he could be also in Sydney or DC or wherever. I think,
> they're all
> some geeks from everywhere, maybe some hired Rendon Group Geeks,
> somewhere
> brainwashed in Falls Church, VA or Fort Meade or whereever, LOL :)
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:59:34 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Re: Re: Troll batlle of the century

Skycretin was also harrassing Lynn with email,
and her full headers refer to a login or spoof at
IP: 64.223.239.238
Country: United States
City: Portland, Maine

...at least we know now for sure, that this committee is switching and
'travelling' a lot :)

--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
> An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:32:46 -0800 (PST)
>
> Interesting, right across my condo complex is this ISO (Intl.
> Socialist...) Northeastern chapter leader and I am sure the guy is a fed
since ISO is a
> COINTLEPRO front. I have been having critical computer problems lately and
> I suspect this asshole has tampered with my system. His name is Ashley
> Smith and his wireless network is visable to mine.
>
> Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li> wrote: > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
> > An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> > Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:17:37 -0800 (PST)
>
>
> Location is not sure, if he spoofed the IP.
> If he didn't spoof, then it could be indeed vermont,
> therefore right around your corner:)
>
> Other traces have him in Fremont, CA though.
>
> I'm waiting for some other "full headers" of Lynn.
> I believe this committee is spoofing though and just logs in everywhere.
>
> Therefore he could be also in Sydney or DC or wherever. I think, they're
> all
> some geeks from everywhere, maybe some hired Rendon Group Geeks, somewhere
> brainwashed in Falls Church, VA or Fort Meade or whereever, LOL :)
>
>
>
>
> > Translation please. Where is "sky king's' location?
> >
> >
> > Nico Haupt <nicohaupt@gmx.li> wrote:
> > > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > > Von: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
> > > An: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Troll batlle of the century
> > > Datum: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:30:36 -0600
> > >
> >
> > Awesome: )
> >
> > The latest "full headers" is reverse-IPing 'SkyCretin' now back to
> > IP: 68.68.42.183
> > Country: United States
> > City: Burlington, Vermont
> >
> > ADELPHIA-AS2
> >
> >
> > latest check blocked by firewall:
> >
> > 10 28 32 26 26 ms [+0ms]
> >
> > 24.48.204.194 AS19548
> > ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]
>
> > 245 US Unix:
> > 21:47:05.718
> > 11 46 30 32 30 ms [+3ms]
> >
> > 68.170.144.182 AS19548
> > ADELPHIA-AS2 unknown.adelphia.net -1 miles [+0] 0 miles [+0]
>
> > 244 US Unix:
> > 21:47:07.958
> > 12 * * * 99999 ms [+99999ms]
> >
> > [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> > [+0] 0 miles [+0]
> >
> > 13 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
> >
> > [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> > [+0] 0 miles [+0]
> >
> > 14 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
> >
> > [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond] -1 miles
> > [+0] 0 miles [+0]
> >
> > 15 * * * 99999 ms [+0ms]
> >
> > [Unknown] [Unknown - Firewall did not respond]
> > [4 hops with no response:
> > assuming we hit a firewall
> > that blocks pings] -1 miles [+0]
> >
> > >>>>http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
> >
> > Check how this thread finished out.
> >
> > This is just too hilarious.
> > At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article,
> > which
> > is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.
> >
> > Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the
> > thread
> > regularly.
> > In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin
> > immolating
> > itself with a gallon of jet fuel.
> >
> > and poof it was gone.
> > (the later appearance was Nico on a prank)
> >
> > It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.<<<
> >
> > --
> > 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
> > +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
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> > SPONSORED LINKS
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> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "911InsideJobbers" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911InsideJobbers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> > http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
> >
> > Check how this thread finished out.
> >
> > This is just too hilarious.
> > At this Indymedia, "hidden" means they darkened the original article,
> > which is about a past event anyway, and they took off the posting link.
> >
> > Me and Holmgren knew the posting link because we were backing up the
> > thread regularly.
> > In his last thread message, Holmgren had CIA toy robot Sky Cretin
> > immolating itself with a gallon of jet fuel.
> >
> > and poof it was gone.
> > (the later appearance was Nico on a prank)
> >
> > It infested our mailboxes this morning so I posted it's headers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Giltner wrote:
> > > I agree. Great work.
> > >
> > > I do have a small question. Going forward, when debunking Pop.
> > > Mechanics, is it really a good policy to use the Chertoff cousin
> > > connection.
> > >
> > > I saw how it was responed to here:
> > >
> > > http://www.infidelguy.com/ftopic-10044-days0-orderasc-15.html
> > >
> > > I don't for a moment say that the Pop. Mechanics article was
> > > anything other than orchestated from a high 911 insider position.
> > > However, I think the case for how it was orchestrated can be made by
> > > pointing out how a huge amount of staff at PM was replaced prior to
> > > the publication (and other issues like that). I find the cousin
> > > thing, although likely true, gives off a smell of Flocco-like
> > > stories...
> > >
> > > --- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Nixon" <nxngrg@...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Kudos to Gerard and Rosalee for some of the most enetertaining
> > >> and enlightening troll trampling technique I have ever witnessed!
> > >>
> > >> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332076.html?c=all
> > >>
> > >> "Sky Cretin" and "Architect" are not your ordinary trolls indeed,
> > >>
> > > i
> > >
> > >> think they are writing the playbook. I see the SAME approach in
> > >>
> > > ALL
> > >
> > >> the other forums where trolls are trolling.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
>
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:43:51 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: [Fwd: RE: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:31:34 +1100
From: Gerard Holmgren <holmgren@iinet.net.au>
To: <devvyk@earthlink.net>, "'Rosalee Grable'" <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
CC: <killtown@yahoo.com>

Hee hee ! In the time that Devvy was writing this evasive lying
bullshit, then she should have actually aswered my question 20 times over.

All she had to do was either

post a few links from her own writings,

or alternatively say, "I'm not actually familiar with this part of the
evidence, where can I find it? " ,

or "I've read a lot of this evidence but I'm not convinced".

Or even delay her answer by a few hours until her oh- so -- important
work was done. (Snigger)

[[Sitting in front of me is a court order from Magistrate Judge
Robinson in Washington, DC. I have two outstanding FOIA lawsuits and
her order requires my response with a drop dead date. That response,
which I had to prepare this morning, had to get to the post office
by noon my time in order to make the airport run for the postal guy.]]

So why was divvy spending time writing the evasive bullshit below,
rather than saving it up for the afternoon -- or tomorrow ? No-one said
she had to respond pronto. Anf given that she chose to respond before
doing her oh-so --important work (snigger), why did she take 20 times
as long as she needed to -- to **avoid** actually aswering the question ?

I'm always amused that when people complain that asking for a straight
answer is "bullying"

As the crap about "I'm going to court and doing legal stuff, which makes
me really, really , really important, so my time is more valuable than
yours " is the same kind of wank used by other fake opposition types
like Ruppert, when they get backed into a corner.

Then we had the sob story of how much of her own money she's spent.
Another classic. Devvy -- perhaps you'd like to put up all the money
you've made out of the "war on terror" against those who you chose to
take a shot at ? Making money out of opposing the WOT is almost as big
an industry as carrying it out. But there's only money to be made for
the fake opposition -- like Devvy.

For example, this statement here where she supports the lies of Sept 11.

[[Yes, there are discrepancies in the passenger lists as well as
dead hijackers who are actually alive and well. While it is
aggravating and time consuming, you need to file Freedom of
Information Act requests to obtain hard copy documentation. Yeah,
you're gonna get the run around and it's a battle, but if done
right, you will get the documents and then you have hard proof.
Right now, a lot of this information has come via news stories on
the Internet and not from court forced releases. It makes a big
difference when you're trying to match up time and events.]]

Note the slight of hand here.

My Article is entitled - Media published fake passenger lists. So it
about what the media published. Duh ...

You don't need FOI to find out what the media published.

The media published lists which they fraudulently tried to pass off as
having been sourced from official documentation and I proved that it was
not.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/fake.html
<http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eholmgren/fake.html>

But Devvy deceptively presents this as being a discussion of first hand
official documentation for who was on the plane , to give her an excuse
to prattle on about FOI's.

Having used this slight of hand to dismiss the evidence in my research
without even addressing it, Devvy then ignores the fact that you'll
never get official documentation for a passenger list for AA11 because
there isn't any. There can't be, because there wasn't any such flight.

And how do I know this? Because I actually produced official records
from the BTS to say so.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/1177.html
<http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eholmgren/1177.html>

But Devvy pretends that this doesn't exist, pretends that AA11 actually
existed and thus sets up the smokescreen of we "need an FOI"- something
which of course can't be done.

This is how the fake opposition works. And in the meantime make
themselves money out of thundering loudly but meaninglessly about
"unanswered questions", while at the same time , doing their part to
obscure whatever answers actually have been provided.

And as for this piece of hilarious lying...

[[Upon my return from Shanksville the first week of Sept 2005,... .
While I was there, pieces of the plane were still being belched out
of the ground ]]

We're supposed to believe this unsubstantiated crap, just because you
say it ? How stupid do you think we are ? Yeah , right ! And I saw the
Loch Ness monster you idiot ! So claim that as a fact too. Implicit
again in this is Devvy's calim that she is somehow on a higher plane of
credibility -- that she just make stuff up and that qualifies it as
fact, while someone else can meticulously sift through reams of
mainstream media documents, compile them, and reference them and provide
incisive analysis on them -- which nobody has ever been able to refute
-- but this is swept aside to be put on the shelf as inconclusive until
Hero Devvy files here FOI which can never bring a result.

Thus the issue becomes mired as a never ending "unanswered question" and
its in the interests of Devvy to make sure that unanswered questions are
never answered because that then enables her to take on an appearance of
credibility in her fake rantings about the WOT.

But furthermore, this clearly implies that (alleged) wreckage recovery
operations had ceased by Sept 25 2001.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:Wc7xIQAmDwkJ:www.planetout.com/news/article.html%3F2001/09/25/1+wreckage+recovery+flight+93&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=19
<http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:Wc7xIQAmDwkJ:www.planetout.com/news/article.html%3F2001/09/25/1+wreckage+recovery+flight+93&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=19>

The FBI said Monday that it had completed its work at the crash scene of
United *Flight* *93...* The *recovery* of human remains and
identification of victims will continue at the site. As of Monday,
forensic experts were able to identify 11 of the 44 people on board the
plane.

The FBI turned over custody of the plane's *wreckage* to United Airlines
on Sunday.

And Devvy was there 3 ½ years later and they were still digging it out !
Yeah, right ! Furthermore, there's already a temporary memorial on the site

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/PASHAflight93.html

Do you see any sign of work crews "belching" stuff out of the ground ?

The old story. The Bush Regime tells us one pack of lies, and the fake
opposition tells us a different set of lies, but they unite for the
greater line. A loonyland delusion world of cartoon planes, from which
both sides can extract political and economic advantage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* Devvy Kidd [mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net]
*Sent:* Friday, 24 February 2006 8:13 AM
*To:* Gerard Holmgren; Rosalee Grable
*Cc:* killtown@yahoo.com
*Subject:* Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]

Mr. Holmgren:

Your bullying tactics are unwelcome. First you sent out e-mail to the
world calling me a liar, a racist, etc .,without an apology and now you
make demands upon me and if I don't respond, then you are considering
calling me a liar, again?

Let me address your P.S. first:

"PS. I also have a low opinion of those who think that their time is
more important than anyone elses, so don't try that one again."

I was blind sided by your attack and that of your circle of friends
first thing this morning.

Sitting in front of me is a court order from Magistrate Judge Robinson
in Washington, DC. I have two outstanding FOIA lawsuits and her order
requires my response with a drop dead date. That response, which I had
to prepare this morning, had to get to the post office by noon my time
in order to make the airport run for the postal guy. I have been
fighting the court and this FOIA for over three years.

I'm sorry you expected me to drop everything I'm doing just to respond
to your rude e-mails, but my obligation by a court order was to get
those documents in the mail. If that doesn't sit well with you, I'm real
sorry. It has nothing to do with my time being any more valuable than yours.

Second: Your questions have been addressed in my columns either directly
or by providing links to the many, many web sites on 9/11 that appear
credible. I have endeavored to get people who read my columns on 9/11
introduced to the many, many different sites that all present the
unanswered questions and discrepancies.

You and many others deserve a huge thanks for all the work you have done
in your research and analysis. Yes, there are discrepancies in the
passenger lists as well as dead hijackers who are actually alive and
well. While it is aggravating and time consuming, you need to file
Freedom of Information Act requests to obtain hard copy documentation.
Yeah, you're gonna get the run around and it's a battle, but if done
right, you will get the documents and then you have hard proof. Right
now, a lot of this information has come via news stories on the Internet
and not from court forced releases. It makes a big difference when
you're trying to match up time and events.

Third: Upon my return from Shanksville the first week of Sept 2005,
which cost me $2,4000 in cold, hard cash, I had to have the recordings
of the witnesses I interviewed (my friend, Dane, is an appellate
attorney in DC and he was there for all the interviews as a witness)
transcribed by a company that does legal transcriptions. That cost me
$319 bux in cold, hard cash.

At that time I was not sure whether or not Flight 93 was shot down or
not. In November 2005, based on a long telephone conversation with my
dearest friend, General Ben Partin, I have now concluded, at least in my
own mind, that Flight 93 was shot down. Ben has known Col de Grand-Pre
for 20 years and based on their lengthy conversation, as I said, I now
believe the plane was shot down by a U.S. fighter jet.

After speaking with Ben, I filed another FOIA on a key question having
to do with some of your questions. I have not written about this FOIA
yet because the agency is refusing to respond at all. They are clearly
in violation of the law and if they don't respond by 1 March, I will
file a lawsuit against them. The filing fee is $150 bux, but I will pay
it because I want those documents. The fact that the agency involved has
refused to respond to a FOIA in any way leads me to believe I'm on the
right track here.

Fourth: A commercial air liner did crash into the ground in Shanksville.
Dozens and dozens of ordinary citizens who have no ax to grind and as
far as I could tell, were not under any mind control programs, saw the
jet and two that I interviewed cold turkey saw the plane enter the
ground. One of those witnesses has a sizeable piece of the wing. While I
was there, pieces of the plane were still being belched out of the
ground. I spoke with the witnesses who saw the debris which landed about
six miles away at the lake.

Whether you choose to believe this or not, I don't know. I can
recommend, however, that you travel to Shanksville and interview the
witnesses for yourself, look at the site, etc.

A great deal of what's been written about 9/11 is based on hard facts,
knowledge of physics and science (thanks to people like you), but too
much of it is based on speculation. The only way to blow this whole
thing wide open is to get a grand jury convened by the families of 9/11;
a grand jury that has the power of the all important subpoena.
Otherwise, the speculation in certain areas will remain just that.

My comments about your Penta Lawn presentation were given without malice
or rancor. I receive constructive criticism all the time and I can tell
you that I listen to what people have to say and recommend because our
fellow Americans have good ideas. I stand by my constructive criticism
that your presentation will turn off more people than it will attract.
You are a highly intelligent man, Mr. Holmgren and I think you would
serve your effort better to, as I said, make your presentation less
sarcastic and more respectful. Of course, lying isn't being respectful,
and I'm repeating myself here: Americans died in the Pentagon that day
who did nothing wrong except show up for work. They deserve a little
respect, don't you think?

Please don't send me anymore mail. As I said, your bullying tactics
aren't received very well and I intensely dislike it when someone makes
demands on me in the fashion you have.

Cordially,

Devvy Kidd

* * * * *

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:44:37 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Fetzer/Jones/Reynolds on Noory

...i'm not a coasttocoast member but recall the archives are free
the following day.
If someone can summarize here later or bring a free backup or hijack link,
would be cool, thx :)

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/02/23.html
-9-11 Theories- James Fetzer David Ray Griffin Morgan Reynolds
Expert on conspiracy theories, James Fetzer, will review recent hypotheses
of what really happened on 9-11, based on physical evidence. He'll be joined
by David Ray Griffin, author of The New Pearl Harbor in the second hour, and
Morgan Reynolds, former chief economist for the Labor Dept., in the third
hour.

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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:56:39 -0000
From: "ron_winn" <ron_winn@lineone.net>
Subject: A slam dunk. Once the doors slammed shut - that was it.

Answer this question in as many words as you like - People were left
in the elevators in the north tower to fend for themselves and/or to
eventually die because.....................

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-04-elevator-usat_x.htm

"On Sept. 11, the mechanics left on their own, without instructions
from police or fire officials. ACE Elevator supervisors say this was
consistent with the emergency plan. All the mechanics survived. "We
had a procedure. We had a procedure to follow, and they (the
mechanics) followed it," Niederau says."

"On Sept. 11, people fought their own way out of elevators or they
died. USA TODAY could not locate any professional rescues of people
stuck in elevators. The Fire Department of New York and the Port
Authority also could not cite successful rescues."

Chris Young trapped in a elevator in the LOBBY for a 100 minutes.
After a power failure the doors slid open easily. The power was cut to
the motor that was keeping them shut. The Lobby was empty. Young was
the last person to escape an elevator.

http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/pdf/0103-002.pdf

Notice the date: March 2001

And why if a power failure led to one guy being able to exit an
elevator he was trapped in for 100 minutes the power was not cut
manually.

No prizes for giving the correct answer but you may consider this to
be a slam dunk for suit in an American court. And for penalty damages
to be awarded.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:09:35 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Paul Thompson and his new 'Saudi Ties'

...Paul Thompson, sorry to say that, is still a threataganda whore and
continues to hook up with James Ridgeway (VVoice), the man who has only some
9/11 "questions", but doesn't believe in a 9/11 "conspiracy".
(http://www.styleweekly.com/article.asp%3Fidarticle%3D11849&cid=0
Getting the 411 on 9/11, Feb 22, 2006 )

THIS below is exactly the spin, i don't wanna have in this group here.
Superficial saudi-taliban hypes, obscure persons without any clear
background, al-quaeda bogus PR and 9/11 limited hangouts without any
shame.... :(

Paul Thompson
wrote:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2128568
Thu Feb-23-06

"...The Village Voice article also did a piece yesterday on the UAE
government and their ties to al-Qaeda:
Dubai's Port of No Return
Don't jump to conclusions, but there are ties between the UAE, bin Laden,
and the Taliban
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0609,ridgeway,72286,2.html
I'm happy to say my research is referenced heavily in both, and quoted
extensively in the second piece. Check them out!..."

http://villagevoice.com/news/0609,ridgeway,72294,2.html
February 23rd
"....The UAE is not only the center of financial dealings in the Persian
Gulf, it is switching central for dope and arms dealing. The dope comes out
of Afghanistan into the UAE where tax monies are collected and used to buy
arms, which were sent back in for the Taliban. Some of this money is thought
to have helped finance the 9-11 attacks. A money trail is set forth in the
government's filings in the Moussaoui case.

Long at the center of this operation is the mysterious Russian arms dealer,
Victor Bout. The U.N. has accused Bout of providing arms to brutal regimes
in Sierra Leone,Angola and to Charles Taylor in Liberia...."

--
Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
Satte Provisionen für GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:18:49 +0100 (MET)
From: "Nico Haupt" <nicohaupt@gmx.li>
Subject: Re: A slam dunk. Once the doors slammed shut - that was it.

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: "ron_winn" <ron_winn@lineone.net>
> An: <911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com>
> Betreff: [911InsideJobbers] A slam dunk. Once the doors slammed shut -
> that was it.
> Datum: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:56:39 -0000
>

This is one of my alltime to update topics, the '9/11 elevators'
-very interesting!

I had ACE Elevator once in my todo-list and can't recall where and why i
stopped, but the elevator issue is generally an alltime to do for me,
where all CD researchers fade out.
How can almost 200 elevators pulverize? :)

I once spoke with an elevator specialist at the NIST hearings who also
testified, though on negligence. He claimed, that this master lock wasn't
fixed for years...
I can't recall the proper technical term anymore, but it should be here
connected with this here: ("clutch mechanism"):

http://science.howstuffworks.com/elevator8.htm

I had same USA Today article.
All i know is, that it IS a british company.

http://www.ace-elevators.co.uk/

Interesting that the US branch filed chapter II in 2004, but british
website/company is still up.
Dunno whereelse to look next, but wanna do it somehow.

Until some months ago, i thought Otis ran these elevators.
I think between 1993 and 2001 they switched from Otis to ACE.
we need former operators to talk why so manny dozens of elevators had been
under construction weeks before 9/11 and who did the maintenance?

ACE themselves? Otis or whoever? maybe we will get some infos from
Carmen Griffen (see below)

Then there was also a case between AMEC
(!)
and
ACE:

http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/calendars/rdd.html
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:cb7JxZ4e0JYJ:www.nysb.uscourts.gov/calendars/rdd.html+ACE+elevator&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9

05-02565-rdd
A.C.E. Elevator Co., Inc. v. AMEC

http://www.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm

I originally started down at the trade center in 1973 with Otis Elevator
when the towers were just about completed, and I was transferred out of the
trade center in ’75. After that I worked for Otis Elevator. I came back to
the trade center in ’98, and up ’til September 11 was working as a mechanic
on the elevators.

On the morning of September 11 at about a quarter to nine, a partner and I
came out of a motor room and walked over to the windows overlooking the
Hudson River...

... There were a couple of people I knew that worked for the building. You
did a story on Carmen Griffen, one of the elevator operators, I know her. So
this was, she was lucky to get out, very lucky..

>>>>>Answer this question in as many words as you like - People were left
in the elevators in the north tower to fend for themselves and/or to
eventually die because.....................

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-04-elevator-usat_x.htm

http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/pdf/0103-002.pdf

Notice the date: March 2001

And why if a power failure led to one guy being able to exit an
elevator he was trapped in for 100 minutes the power was not cut
manually.

No prizes for giving the correct answer but you may consider this to
be a slam dunk for suit in an American court. And for penalty damages
to be awarded.<<<

--
DSL-Aktion wegen großer Nachfrage bis 28.2.2006 verlängert:
GMX DSL-Flatrate 1 Jahr kostenlos* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:19:06 -0000
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
Subject: WBAI offering the "9/11 Inside Job" info pack as premium

It includes a bumper-sticker and "Loose Change" DVD.

It's their annual fund-raising drive.
They are playing choice excerpts from the Dylan Avery video.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:20:16 -0000
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
Subject: ooops ... that was WBAI last nite.

Tonight it's KPFK offering the 9/11 "super pack", with
"Loose Change" and bumper sticker.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:24:18 -0000
From: "Lynn Ertell" <lynnertell@comcast.net>
Subject: "IN YOUR FACE AMY GOODMAN !" (KPFK announcer)

He says... "... IN YOUR FACE, AMY GOODMAN !!"

This guy seems to be poking fun at Amy Goodman, in between hawking the
"9/11 pledege fund package"

I kind of like this guy's rap .... it's funny.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:39:46 -0000
From: "inphoman911" <inphoman911@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Paul Thompson and his new 'Saudi Ties'

has been confronted.

--- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Nico Haupt"
<nicohaupt@...> wrote:
>
> ...Paul Thompson, sorry to say that, is still a threataganda whore
and
> continues to hook up with James Ridgeway (VVoice), the man who has
only some
> 9/11 "questions", but doesn't believe in a 9/11 "conspiracy".
> (http://www.styleweekly.com/article.asp%3Fidarticle%3D11849&cid=0
> Getting the 411 on 9/11, Feb 22, 2006 )
>
>
> THIS below is exactly the spin, i don't wanna have in this group
here.
> Superficial saudi-taliban hypes, obscure persons without any clear
> background, al-quaeda bogus PR and 9/11 limited hangouts without
any
> shame.... :(
>
> Paul Thompson
> wrote:
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?
az=view_all&address=102x2128568
> Thu Feb-23-06
>
> "...The Village Voice article also did a piece yesterday on the UAE
> government and their ties to al-Qaeda:
> Dubai's Port of No Return
> Don't jump to conclusions, but there are ties between the UAE, bin
Laden,
> and the Taliban
> http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0609,ridgeway,72286,2.html
> I'm happy to say my research is referenced heavily in both, and
quoted
> extensively in the second piece. Check them out!..."
>
>
> http://villagevoice.com/news/0609,ridgeway,72294,2.html
> February 23rd
> "....The UAE is not only the center of financial dealings in the
Persian
> Gulf, it is switching central for dope and arms dealing. The dope
comes out
> of Afghanistan into the UAE where tax monies are collected and
used to buy
> arms, which were sent back in for the Taliban. Some of this money
is thought
> to have helped finance the 9-11 attacks. A money trail is set
forth in the
> government's filings in the Moussaoui case.
>
> Long at the center of this operation is the mysterious Russian
arms dealer,
> Victor Bout. The U.N. has accused Bout of providing arms to brutal
regimes
> in Sierra Leone,Angola and to Charles Taylor in Liberia...."
>
> --
> Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne
Risiko!
> Satte Provisionen für GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:08:14 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]]]

She keeps this up, I'll wind up a Lisa Guliani fan!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates
Lying as "respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]]
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:50:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Lisa Guliani <wingedpiper@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: BATR@yahoogroups.com
To: BATR@yahoogroups.com

No jetliner crashed in Shanksville. We also spoke with everyday people
who live there who saw some very interesting events.
Devvy should go ahead and show us all the plane in the smoking hole.
Show us one drop of blood.
Find one person who smelled the 6000 pounds of burning human flesh that
day in Shanksville.
One person, preferably not tied to the DOD/military.
How does Devvy explain the testimony of Susan McElwain, who uh,
basically saw the missile?
Where, oh where, does Devvy see a jetliner in that smoking hole?
Jeez, I've been staring at that crater for what seems like forever and I
don't see no stinkin' plane, Ms. Kidd.
Devvy might be well served to check out what was going down in New
Baltimore, Pa. on 9-11-01.
So we respect the living and the dead by tiptoeing around and not
offending anyone's delicate sensiblities and not peeing on any
politically correct parades and not saying what needs to be said?
I'll take the person who is willing to risk it all and be themselves and
say the things that need saying - come what may -the people who are for
REAL, over the polite professional primrose any day of the week.
This dawdling-in-the-center-of-the bell-curve-where-it's-safe attitude
accomplishes nothing.
We respect the dead and the living by giving it to them straight-up.
As for shelling out money, YES, many of us have shelled out plenty of
fiat dollars, not to mention forfeited the other pieces of our lives
over the last 4+ years in our efforts to get to the bottom of this whole
mess and get the word out into the public domain.
PLENTY. So freakin' what?
Is the money invested in this truth effort the yardstick by which we
should measure how much a person gives a damn?
Is she kidding or what?
How many of us have lived on the edge of that "poverty line" over the
last few years and have done so consciously and deliberately, because
the purpose was of higher value and worth than the freakin' money it
sucked out of our pockets?

You know, I have always been in this truth effort because it is simply
what I must do. Money has never been a big focus, and I have not - and
don't expect to - ever have a lot of it in my lifetime.
What we do out of principle and conviction involves no sacrifice, Devvy
Kidd.

Lisa Guliani

*/Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>/* wrote:

she found time to reply to Holmgren.
She ignored me completely, so I'm glad she responded to him.
It' s suprising what a lightning rod Killtown's site has been.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Response to your last mail/Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:12:40 -0800
From: Devvy Kidd <devvyk@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: devvyk@earthlink.net
To: Gerard Holmgren <holmgren@iinet.net.au>, Rosalee Grable
<webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
CC: killtown@yahoo.com

Mr. Holmgren:
Your bullying tactics are unwelcome. First you sent out e-mail to
the world calling me a liar, a racist, etc .,without an apology and
now you make demands upon me and if I don't respond, then you are
considering calling me a liar, again?
Let me address your P.S. first:
"PS. I also have a low opinion of those who think that their time is
more important than anyone elseâ€™s, so don't try that one again."
I was blind sided by your attack and that of your circle of friends
first thing this morning.
Sitting in front of me is a court order from Magistrate Judge
Robinson in Washington, DC. I have two outstanding FOIA lawsuits and
her order requires my response with a drop dead date. That response,
which I had to prepare this morning, had to get to the post office
by noon my time in order to make the airport run for the postal guy.
I have been fighting the court and this FOIA for over three years.
I'm sorry you expected me to drop everything I'm doing just to
respond to your rude e-mails, but my obligation by a court order was
to get those documents in the mail. If that doesn't sit well with
you, I'm real sorry. It has nothing to do with my time being any
more valuable than yours.
Second: Your questions have been addressed in my columns either
directly or by providing links to the many, many web sites on 9/11
that appear credible. I have endeavored to get people who read my
columns on 9/11 introduced to the many, many different sites that
all present the unanswered questions and discrepancies.
You and many others deserve a huge thanks for all the work you have
done in your research and analysis. Yes, there are discrepancies in
the passenger lists as well as dead hijackers who are actually alive
and well. While it is aggravating and time consuming, you need to
file Freedom of Information Act requests to obtain hard copy
documentation. Yeah, you're gonna get the run around and it's a
battle, but if done right, you will get the documents and then you
have hard proof. Right now, a lot of this information has come via
news stories on the Internet and not from court forced releases. It
makes a big difference when you're trying to match up time and events.
Third: Upon my return from Shanksville the first week of Sept 2005,
which cost me $2,4000 in cold, hard cash, I had to have the
recordings of the witnesses I interviewed (my friend, Dane, is an
appellate attorney in DC and he was there for all the interviews as
a witness) transcribed by a company that does legal transcriptions.
That cost me $319 bux in cold, hard cash.
At that time I was not sure whether or not Flight 93 was shot down
or not. In November 2005, based on a long telephone conversation
with my dearest friend, General Ben Partin, I have now concluded, at
least in my own mind, that Flight 93 was shot down. Ben has known
Col de Grand-Pre for 20 years and based on their lengthy
conversation, as I said, I now believe the plane was shot down by a
U.S. fighter jet.
After speaking with Ben, I filed another FOIA on a key question
having to do with some of your questions. I have not written about
this FOIA yet because the agency is refusing to respond at all. They
are clearly in violation of the law and if they don't respond by 1
March, I will file a lawsuit against them. The filing fee is $150
bux, but I will pay it because I want those documents. The fact that
the agency involved has refused to respond to a FOIA in any way
leads me to believe I'm on the right track here.
Fourth: A commercial air liner did crash into the ground in
Shanksville. Dozens and dozens of ordinary citizens who have no ax
to grind and as far as I could tell, were not under any mind control
programs, saw the jet and two that I interviewed cold turkey saw the
plane enter the ground. One of those witnesses has a sizeable piece
of the wing. While I was there, pieces of the plane were still being
belched out of the ground. I spoke with the witnesses who saw the
debris which landed about six miles away at the lake.
Whether you choose to believe this or not, I don't know. I can
recommend, however, that you travel to Shanksville and interview the
witnesses for yourself, look at the site, etc.
A great deal of what's been written about 9/11 is based on hard
facts, knowledge of physics and science (thanks to people like you),
but too much of it is based on speculation. The only way to blow
this whole thing wide open is to get a grand jury convened by the
families of 9/11; a grand jury that has the power of the all
important subpoena. Otherwise, the speculation in certain areas will
remain just that.
My comments about your Penta Lawn presentation were given without
malice or rancor. I receive constructive criticism all the time and
I can tell you that I listen to what people have to say and
recommend because our fellow Americans have good ideas. I stand by
my constructive criticism that your presentation will turn off more
people than it will attract. You are a highly intelligent man, Mr.
Holmgren and I think you would serve your effort better to, as I
said, make your presentation less sarcastic and more respectful. Of
course, lying isn't being respectful, and I'm repeating myself here:
Americans died in the Pentagon that day who did nothing wrong except
show up for work. They deserve a little respect, don't you think?
Please don't send me anymore mail. As I said, your bullying tactics
aren't received very well and I intensely dislike it when someone
makes demands on me in the fashion you have.
Cordially,
Devvy Kidd
* * * * *

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gerard Holmgren <mailto:holmgren@iinet.net.au>
*To: *devvyk@earthlink.net <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>;Rosalee
Grable <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
*Cc: *killtown@yahoo.com <mailto:killtown@yahoo.com>
*Sent:* 2/23/2006 9:58:41 AM
*Subject:* RE: Final comment/ Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd:Your Pentalawn presentation]

Devvy,
Your protestations about being dedicated to the cause of
exposing the truth about Sept 11 may well be true. So I for
one havenâ€™t made any accusation otherwise. However, neither do
I express uncritical belief.
You can demonstrate your claims simply by providing what I asked
for in my previous post.
If you donâ€™t, then weâ€™ll know that you are lying. But I make
no such accusation at this stage. However, I do warn you that
this is your final opportunity to respond with the information I
asked for, because I have a very poor opinion of people who
canâ€™t give a straight answer to a straight question, and
people who either claim that theyâ€™ve written things when
they havenâ€™t or else show curious reluctance to provide links
to their own writing.
So,here again is my request. Please read it carefully.
To test your dedication to exposing the truth, can you refer to
any published article of yours which deals with
a) no planes hit any buildings that day and no plane crashed in PA
b) two of the allegedly hijacked flights did not even exist
c) independent of point b, the media published bogus passenger
lists for the mythical flight 11
d) The two allegedly hijacked flights which did actually exist,
appear not to have crashed anywhere, because they were still
registered as valid on the FAA aircraft registry for more than
four years after.
If you are familiar with these issues , then surely you've
published something on them. Please supply the links. If you
havenâ€™t yet published anything on those issues, then when do
you intend to ?
If the material is new to you, and you havenâ€™t yet had time to
study it, that's fine - please say so if this is the case, but
if you didnâ€™t actually know anything about the issues, then
please learn the lesson of thoughtlessly dishing out the
"offensive to those who died" tag on things about which you know
nothing.
If you have studied the material and dispute it, then say so
straight out.
Looking forward to a straight answer.
[[I'm afraid I have to bow out of this discussion as I have two
legal briefs due on two of my FOIA lawsuits in the DC courts and
I have to get them to the post office by noon. ]]
PS. I also have a low opinion of those who think that their time
is more important than anyone elseâ€™s, so donâ€™t try that one
again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Devvy Kidd [mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net]
*Sent:* Friday, 24 February 2006 4:41 AM
*To:* Rosalee Grable; Gerard Holmgren
*Cc:* killtown@yahoo.com; BATR@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Final comment/ Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd: Your Pentalawn presentation]
Regarding Mr. Giltner's comments below:
Bill Giltner wrote:

I just went to newswithviews.com to reivew Ms. Kidd's postings.

>From what I can see, she hasn't even dealt with 9/11 since Sept.

2005, and this is the article she wrote:

http://newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd125.htm

There can be no doubt she is "not helpful" (a phrase Rumsfeld loves

to say). Is it possible that many, many of the left gatekeepers and

people like Ms. Kidd are just comfortable with the status quo of

their place in the world, and think the upheaval of people knowing

the truth will upset their little lives? Is there so
me other

explanation?

Mr. Giltner seems to be comfortable slinging untruths around
without anything to back them up.
So, you went to NWVs and I have no postings on 9/11 since last
September? That is a bald faced lie, Mr. Giltner. My columns
since then are posted on NWVs. As a matter of fact, if you
scroll way down, you will see that I supplied the URL's for Mr.
Holmgren. This doesn't even begin to cover the ones that are
archived from my own web site over the years.
Mr. Giltner states I am "not helpful" and am comfortable with
the status quo and that knowing the truth will upset "their
little lives." Such ignorance of me, my writings and all I have
tried to do to further the truth about 9/11 doesn't even warrant
a response.
With all due respect to you folks, none of this accomplishes
anything towards getting the truth exposed. I have written all
about 9/11 as much as possible. I drove all the way to
Shanksville, PA on my own money to conduct face to face
interviews with witnesses who live there and have no reason to
lie. I know the Coroner is lying and all of this is covered in
the report I wrote up about my very expensive trip to PA. Did
any of you shell out a few grand to go to the actual site and
interview anyone?
I have bent over backwards trying to get people to see that 9/11
is based on a mountain of lies and is the justification for the
unconstitutional invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.
However, nothing seems to please you people except making
accusations against me because I suggested that your
presentation of Penta Lawn might be better served with less
sarcasm.
I'm afraid I have to bow out of this discussion as I have two
legal briefs due on two of my FOIA lawsuits in the DC courts and
I have to get them to the post office by noon.
Cordially,
Devvy Kidd
* * * *

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rosalee Grable <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
*To: *Gerard Holmgren <mailto:holmgren@iinet.net.au>
*Cc: *devvyk@earthlink.net <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>;
killtown@yahoo.com <mailto:killtown@yahoo.com>;
BATR@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BATR@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* 2/23/2006 8:56:57 AM
*Subject:* Re: Reply/ Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd: Your Pentalawn presentation]
http://newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd125.htm
features a couple interesting pictures.

<http://newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd125.htm>

-------- Original Message --------
*Subject: *

Re: [911InsideJobbers] Re: Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as
"respectful" Fwd: Your Penta lawn presentation]
*Date: *

Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:44:57 -0600
*From: *

Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
<mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>

This is one of her pictures, from two weeks after.
Notice the grass has been all covered up, just like they did
at the pentagon.
http://www.devvy.com/photos/Flight93/orig_david_hess_one.jpg
http://www.devvy.com/photos/Flight93/orig_david_hess_one.jpg

Whatever created the Empty Hole with No Plane In IT
had a radiation that affected cameras just like happened at
all the other crimescenes.

http://thewebfairy.com/911/93/emptyhole.htm

and seems to have blighted trees, according to this picture
she says comes from the FBI
Notice the blight pattern has a purple cast and is circular.
http://www.devvy.com/photos/Flight93/orig_fbi_flight_93.jpg
http://www.devvy.com/photos/Flight93/orig_fbi_flight_93.jpg

Bill Giltner wrote:

I just went to newswithviews.com to reivew Ms. Kidd's postings.

>From what I can see, she hasn't even dealt with 9/11 since Sept.

2005, and this is the article she wrote:

http://newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd125.htm

There can be no doubt she is "not helpful" (a phrase Rumsfeld loves

to say). Is it possible that many, many of the left gatekeepers and

people like Ms. Kidd are just comfortable with the status quo of

their place in the world, and think the upheaval of people knowing

the truth will upset their little lives? Is there some other

explanation?

Gerard Holmgren wrote:

Heh ! Well if the "offensive tag" is so hard to take, then be more careful

about dishing it out.

So perhaps we can take the heat down a little now, in case there's been a

genuine misunderstanding, but the next you time you want to play the

"offensive to those who died " card, remember that you don't have a monopoly

on it.

To test your dedication to exposing the truth, can you refer to any

published article of yours which deals with

a) no planes hit any buildings that day and no plane crashed in PA

b) two of the allegedly hijacked flights did not even exist

c) independent of point b, the media published bogus passenger lists for the

mythical flight 11

d) The two allegedly hijacked flights which did actually exist, appear not

to have crashed anywhere, because they were still registered as valid on the

FAA aircraft registry for more than four years after.

If you are familiar with these issues , then surely you've published

something on them. Please supply the links. If you haven't yet published

anything on those issues, then when do you intend to ?

If the material is new to you, and you haven't yet had time to study it,

that's fine - please say so if this is the case, but if you didn't actually

know anything about the issues, then please learn the lesson of

thoughtlessly dishing out the "offensive to those who died" tag on things

about which you know nothing.

If you have studied the material and dispute it, then say so straight out.

Looking forward to a
straight answer.

-----Original Message-----

From: Devvy Kidd [mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net]

Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 3:16 AM

To: Gerard Holmgren; webfairy@thewebfairy.com <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>; killtown@yahoo.com <mailto:killtown@yahoo.com>;

911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Reply/ Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd: Your Penta

lawn presentation]

Dear Mr. Holmgren:

I always like to wake up to mail accusing me of being a liar, a racist,

supporting a cover up the lies about 9/11 and supporting the evil agenda of

the Cheney/Bush administration.

Let me see if I have this straight. I sent the following e-mail last night:

Subject: Your Penta lawn presentation

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:40:55 -0800

From: devvyk@earthlink.net <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>

To: webfairy@thewebfairy.com <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html

I don't know who to address this mail to, but I found your link off

Rense.com tonight.

Your Penta Lawn presentation is in very poor taste. I am fully aware of

the fair
y tale told by the criminals who run our government, but people

died in the Pentagon that day. Decent
Americans who were guilty of nothing

more than going to work.

Your sarcastic portrayal degrades and makes fun of a horrible, horrible

event and the cover up.

I believe you would be better served to show some respect for those who

died that day. Can you imagine a father, son, wife, husband, son or

daughter who happens on this page and sees this mockery of that day? Can

you take a moment to think about how they would feel seeing how you are

making fun of something so horrible?

To me, this is as tasteless a
s the web site that boasts "Find the

airplane" re Flight 93. I was in PA last summer and I can tell you, this

crash deeply affected the people who live in the surrounding area and that

web site that makes fun of "Find the Plane" "Let's Roll" It has hurt a lof

of those decent folks - people who had nothing to do with Bush's policy

making or anything else.

If you want to be taken seriously, please change your presentation to

something professional and respectful of our dead fellow Americans while

getting your scientific point to the reader.

Devvy Kidd

No where in my comments above do I see
support of the government's cover

up, racisim nor have I lied in my comments. I sent you that e-mail
because

we are trying to get shell shocked Americans to sit up and pay attention to

all the discepancies regarding 9/11. Most Americans who don't have a clue

still do remember the horrible images of that day. When one clicks on a web

page that is so sarcastic and pokes fun at what happened, I believe you

will lose an otherwise interested reader because they become offended by

the flip attitude of "Penta Lawn." I fail to see how this makes me a liar,

a racist, etc.

Your knee jerk reaction is most unfortunate, Mr. Holmgren. I know of your

work and my dear
friend, Jerry Longspaugh, speaks very highly of you. I

have covered 9/
11 extensively and you do me a grave injustice with all your

baseless and unfounded accusations. I have received other mail this morning

repeating these charges.

For your edification, below is a list of some of
my columns on 9/11 which

include the strongest condemnation of the use of DU killing tens of

thousands of innocent Iraqi's, Afghani's and American soliders.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd71.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd77.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd79.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd125.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd151.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd155.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd162.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd164.htm

Cordially,

Devvy Kidd

* * * * * * * * *

[Original Message]

From: Gerard Holmgren <holmgren@iinet.net.au> <mailto:holmgren@iinet.net.au>

To: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com> <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>; <devvyk@earthlink.net> <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>;

Killtown <killtown@yahoo.com> <mailto:killtown@yahoo.com>

Date: 2/22/2006 11:50:23 PM

Subject: RE: Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd: Your Penta

lawn presentation]

Devvy,

can you please tell us what's "respectful" about spreading bullshit about

plane crashes which never happened ? For whoever did die that day (and we

don't really know who or how many ) the truth should be told.

Also, do you realize how truly distasteful your remarks are to those who

have managed to survive the genocide in Iraq and Afghanistan, which was

launched as the result of this bullshit story ? Hundreds of thousands,

killed , maimed, traumatized and disposed - and it looks like we've only

seen the beginning of it.

Yet meanwhile you cover up for the lies of the war criminals by spreading

bullshit about non existent planes - all for the sake of supposed respect

for a few Americans - some of whom may not even have died anyway.

You think a few Americans are worth more than a few hundred thousand

raggyheads? Is that your attitude ?

If not, then think more fully through the disgraceful racism inherinet in

your message.

There were no such flights as AA11
or 77 that day.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/1177.html <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eholmgren/1177.html>

Independent of that proof,

Media Published Fake Passenger lists for American Airlines flight 11.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/fake.html <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eholmgren/fake.html>

You think it's "respectful" to publish fake passenger lists ?

UA 93 and 175 almost certainly did not crash as they were registered as

valid on the FAA aircraft registry for more than four years afterwards.

Go to the FAA aircraft registry

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

and do an "n number" search for N591UA ( UA 93 on Sept 11) and N612UA (UA

175 on Sept 11).

I find your attitude offensive, disrespectful and racist.

-----Original Message-----

From: Rosalee Grable [mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com]

Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2006 6:23 PM

To: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com>; devvyk@earthlink.net <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>; Gerard Holmgren;

Killtown

Subject: Devvy Kidd advocates Lying as "respectful" Fwd: Your Penta lawn

presentation]

I would never have guessed that Devvy Kidd would come on like a word I'd

have to moderate myself for.

People were affected by Empty Hole 93 so we should pretend the hole wasn't

empty for their sake? What a twisty rotgut form of logic~~ I don't think

it's the least bit funny that they created a 15 foot smoldering hole and

tried to pretend a plane crashed in it. The Mayor, one of the first people

on the scene didn't see any sign of any plane.

http://thewebfairy.com/911/93/mayor1.htm

He did see FEMA guys there prematurely tho. flash video:

http://thewebfairy.com/911/93/mayor.htm

A
Reporter says there is nothing but a ten foot gash.

http://thewebfairy.com/911/93/hole.htm

I had a friend visit there too.

http://thewebfairy.com/911/93/crimescene.htm

She says it's on the grounds of a secret base.

The Pentalawn page is a good natured factual accounting.

It has been picked up by

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=8022

I would have thought better of Devvy Kidd. How disappointing that this

person thinks that humorless porkies are respectful, but a careful

accounting of common sense fact isn't?

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html leads to a whole section

that carefully documents this crime.

http://thewebfairy..com/killtown/flight77.html <http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77.html>

This is an intensely respectful memorial, but what it respects is truth.

What is this world coming to that lying about how people died is supposed

to be a form of respect?

It seems to me that those people's lives would be vindicated by the real

facts coming out.

THEY DIDN"T USE PLANES.

They used lies.

It is a good clue why this world is going down the tubes when somebody

with the previously fine reputation of Devvy Kidd starts advocating lying

as a form of politeness.

------- Original Message --------

Subject: Your Penta lawn presentation

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:40:55 -0800

From: devvyk@earthlink.net <mailto:devvyk@earthlink.net>

To: webfairy@thewebfairy.com <mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com>

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html

I don't know who to address this mail to, but I found your link off

Rense.com tonight.

Your
Penta Lawn presentation is in very poor taste. I am fully aware of

the fairy tale told by the criminals who
run our government, but people

died in the Pentagon that day. Decent Americans who were guilty of nothing

more than going to work.

Your sarcastic portrayal degrades and makes fun of a horrible, horrible

event and the cover up.

I believe you would be better served to show some respect for those who

died that day. Can you imagine a father, son, wife, husband, son or

daughter who happens on this page and
sees this mockery of that day? Can

you take a moment to think about how they would feel seeing how you are

making fun of something so horrible?

To me, this is as tasteless as the web site that boasts "Find the

airplane" re Flight 93. I was in PA last summer and I can tell you, this

crash deeply affected the people who live in the surrounding area and that

web site that makes fun of "Find the Plane" "Let's Roll" It has hurt a lof

of those decent folks - people who had nothing to do with Bush's policy

making or anything else.

If you want to be taken seriously, please change your presentation to

something professional and respectful of our dead fellow Americans while

getting your scientific
point to the reader.

Devvy Kidd

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:32:05 -0000
From: "ron_winn" <ron_winn@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11 Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?

Yes, blackmail. It makes you wonder how clever the people we vote for are when they get into positions where they can get blackmailed.

An excellent piece Ed, which goes to show just how much can be put into a few words.

One thing though on the point that no one does a cover up if they are not connected with it.

There is one other. A cover up of another's work to hide the reason why that other party chose to do what they did and to save a hell of a lot of embarrassment when there can be no realistic way to retaliate against that party. In this case the cover up is that of a third parties act.

There would not have to be a major cover up if the party who is covering it up had instigated it.

Was another "Pearl Harbour" really required? Wouldn't another "USS Cole" been enough? It was only the poor people of Afghanistan after all. The neocons were not afraid to muddle their way through to the invasion of Iraq. Was another "Pearl Harbour" required for Afghanistan? But then who personally drafted the "Pearl Harbour" line?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Barner
To: 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [911InsideJobbers] What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11 Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?

I hope to see a lot of input on this question.
Here are a few thoughts.

The media wants to be seen as spectators not teachers.
I think they'd want to report on a spectacle of some kind.

I like the idea of having S9/11T in front of college crowds if possible, architectural or engineering connections are obviously best. although
they know more what venues they might be comfortable in.

The cover up is one main weakness of the conspirators.

I have asked that people with non disclosure agreements break them based on the following.

" If Dad, kills Mom and blames the bogyman,
Don't help Dad hide his crime.

Rat Dad off.

Get a new dad who doesn't kill family members."

Do the math.
9/11 + cover up = treason.

Specific people aided the cover up. They can be pointed out for questioning about their actions in destroying evidence and suppressing witness accounts
The cover up can be traced to the perps.
No one does a cover up of a crime they are not connected to.
"If 9/11 was done by arabs, why was there a cover up of forensic, eyewitness and photographic evidence and who was in a position to have done it? "

Bob Graham and Porter Goss were doing What when the first plane hit the north tower?

The falseness of the war on terra is becoming apparent to the average man on the street.
The war on 'terra ' is based on 9/11
It follows that a false flag event would not have a real emergency reaction from a concerned government.
They have made no appropriate reaction because they know of the falseness of the 'emergency' and appropriateness now just consists of cashing in, which is what they have done.

Strong points that I have not seen made elsewhere,
The lack of layering in the buildings debris pile is a smoking gun because the materials were thoroughly mixed and did not stratify as would be appropriate for an unaided collapse. the lack of layering means explosives were used.
The presence on the 78th floor of the south tower of Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer and Fire Marshal Ronald P. Bucca, make blast furnace temperatures there, impossible.

Just my comments .
I hope thery are lost in a sea if great suggestions.

Here's a parting thought.
What if bush lost our ports because of blackmail ?

inphoman911 wrote:

Where do you want them to go, and what do you want them to say. Be
breif but specific.

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[This message contained attachments]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:27:51 -0000
From: "Bill Giltner" <bill.giltner@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: GERMAN TABLOID ABOUT Relationship between ATTA and Amanda Keller in Venice/F

It's not that's I'm not interesting, it is this:

Over the past 4 1/2 years, those who have said things like:

1. Don't be rude, you'll offend people
and
2. Hopsicker has the truth about 9/11

have gotten us nowhere.

I am afraid for my Liberty and yours, and I believe following the
lead you are providing has no chance to secure our libery.

--- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "grolode" <grolode@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Ertell"
> <lynnertell@> wrote:
> >
> > Mohammed Atta, Amanda Keller and the Venice Flying Circus
>
> > = more Hollywood plotline
> > = "Bread and circuses"
> >
> > ... sure to keep the masses preoccupied and sedated with
> > entertainment, sensationalism, cheap sex and the usual
diversions,
> > red-herrings and everything but the kitchen sink..
>
> Well ... not the contents of the article is interesting ! It's that
> Hopsicker was mentioned - it's the first time that I red something
> about Atta, not conforming the official story, in mainstream media
> ... and yes, altough many of you might not like Hopsicker, he is
> doing a great job !
>
> Mainstream media avoided mentioning Hopsicker yet ... Now they
mention
> him .... in the most US-Administration conforming Tabloid we have
here
> in Germany .... so this means something ... I'm not sure what, but
it
> makes me feel we are getting a step closer into the right
direction.
>
> hm, I should translate my article, ... I think I'm
misunderstood ... I
> will translate it tomorrow !
>
> > effectively muddying the waters to trivialize, obscure and
conceal
> > basic and essential truths.
>
> Well, that's BILD .. that's how they are ... it's the worst
tabloid I
> know and it is very US-Administration friedly !
> Of course it's entertainment ! The 'risk' mentioning Hopsicker ist
> somethin they would not do without a reason. No, it's not
> sensationalism ... the Atta Keller Story is known for more than 2
> years now ... it voids the picture of the 'good muslim', not
drinking
> alcohol, not having sex with a 'pegan' woman ...
>
> but I see, you are not interested ! So simply forget it !
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:29:05 -0600
From: Rosalee Grable <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>
Subject: [Fwd: "Yeah, but can I bring my toothbrush?"]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [catapult] "Yeah, but can I bring my toothbrush?"
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:12:26 -0800
From: J. Austin <dogbonz@shoreline-wireless.com>
Reply-To: catapultthepropaganda@yahoogroups.com
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

*Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs'*
By Nat Parry
Consortium News

Tuesday 21 February 2006

Not that George W. Bush needs much encouragement, but Sen. Lindsey
Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for
the administration's domestic operations - Fifth Columnists, supposedly
disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.

"The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my
opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements," Graham, R-S.C., told
Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.

"I stand by this President's ability, inherent to being Commander in
Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you
need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the
administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this
alleged threat.

"Senator," a smiling Gonzales responded, "the President already said
we'd be happy to listen to your ideas."

In less paranoid times, Graham's comments might be viewed by many
Americans as a Republican trying to have it both ways - ingratiating
himself to an administration of his own party while seeking some credit
from Washington centrists for suggesting Congress should have at least a
tiny say in how Bush runs the War on Terror.

But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may
already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed
insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be
considered helpful to the enemy.

Top US officials have cited the need to challenge news that
undercuts Bush's actions as a key front in defeating the terrorists, who
are aided by "news informers" in the words of Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld.

*Detention Centers*

Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army
Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a
$385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the
United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the
US, or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said.
[Market Watch, Jan. 26, 2006]

Later, the New York Times reported that "KBR would build the centers
for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of
immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for
new programs that require additional detention space." [Feb. 4, 2006]

Like most news stories on the KBR contract, the Times focused on
concerns about Halliburton's reputation for bilking US taxpayers by
overcharging for sub-par services.

"It's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust
Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," remarked Rep. Henry
Waxman, D-California.

Less attention centered on the phrase "rapid development of new
programs" and what kind of programs would require a major expansion of
detention centers, each capable of holding 5,000 people. Jamie Zuieback,
a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, declined to
elaborate on what these "new programs" might be.

Only a few independent journalists, such as Peter Dale Scott and
Maureen Farrell, have pursued what the Bush administration might
actually be thinking.

Scott speculated that the "detention centers could be used to detain
American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial
law." He recalled that during the Reagan administration, National
Security Council aide Oliver North organized Rex-84 "readiness
exercise," which contemplated the Federal Emergency Management Agency
rounding up and detaining 400,000 "refugees," in the event of
"uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the
United States.

Farrell pointed out that because "another terror attack is all but
certain, it seems far more likely that the centers would be used for
post-911-type detentions of immigrants rather than a sudden deluge" of
immigrants flooding across the border.

Vietnam-era whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said, "Almost certainly
this is preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for
Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters. They've already done
this on a smaller scale, with the 'special registration' detentions of
immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantanamo."

*Labor Camps*

There also was another little-noticed item posted at the US Army Web
site, about the Pentagon's Civilian Inmate Labor Program. This program
"provides Army policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate
labor programs and civilian prison camps on Army installations."

The Army document, first drafted in 1997, underwent a "rapid action
revision" on Jan. 14, 2005. The revision provides a "template for
developing agreements" between the Army and corrections facilities for
the use of civilian inmate labor on Army installations.

On its face, the Army's labor program refers to inmates housed in
federal, state and local jails. The Army also cites various federal laws
that govern the use of civilian labor and provide for the establishment
of prison camps in the United States, including a federal statute that
authorizes the Attorney General to "establish, equip, and maintain camps
upon sites selected by him" and "make available ... the services of
United States prisoners" to various government departments, including
the Department of Defense.

Though the timing of the document's posting - within the past few
weeks - may just be a coincidence, the reference to a "rapid action
revision" and the KBR contract's contemplation of "rapid development of
new programs" have raised eyebrows about why this sudden need for urgency.

These developments also are drawing more attention now because of
earlier Bush administration policies to involve the Pentagon in
"counter-terrorism" operations inside the United States.

*Pentagon Surveillance*

Despite the Posse Comitatus Act's prohibitions against US military
personnel engaging in domestic law enforcement, the Pentagon has
expanded its operations beyond previous boundaries, such as its role in
domestic surveillance activities.

The Washington Post has reported that since the Sept. 11, 2001,
terror attacks, the Defense Department has been creating new agencies
that gather and analyze intelligence within the United States.
[Washington Post, Nov. 27, 2005]

The White House also is moving to expand the power of the Pentagon's
Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA), created three years ago to
consolidate counterintelligence operations. The White House proposal
would transform CIFA into an office that has authority to investigate
crimes such as treason, terrorist sabotage or economic espionage.

The Pentagon also has pushed legislation in Congress that would
create an intelligence exception to the Privacy Act, allowing the FBI
and others to share information about US citizens with the Pentagon, CIA
and other intelligence agencies. But some in the Pentagon don't seem to
think that new laws are even necessary.

In a 2001 Defense Department memo that surfaced in January 2006, the
US Army's top intelligence officer wrote, "Contrary to popular belief,
there is no absolute ban on [military] intelligence components
collecting US person information."

Drawing a distinction between "collecting" information and
"receiving" information on US citizens, the memo argued that "MI
[military intelligence] may receive information from anyone, anytime."
[See CQ.com, Jan. 31, 2005]

This receipt of information presumably would include data from the
National Security Agency, which has been engaging in surveillance of US
citizens without court-approved warrants in apparent violation of the
Foreign Intelligence Security Act. Bush approved the program of
warrantless wiretaps shortly after 9/11.

There also may be an even more extensive surveillance program.
Former NSA employee Russell D. Tice told a congressional committee on
Feb. 14 that such a top-secret surveillance program existed, but he said
he couldn't discuss the details without breaking classification laws.

Tice added that the "special access" surveillance program may be
violating the constitutional rights of millions of Americans. [UPI, Feb.
14, 2006]

With this expanded surveillance, the government's list of terrorist
suspects is rapidly swelling.

The Washington Post reported on Feb. 15 that the National
Counterterrorism Center's central repository now holds the names of
325,000 terrorist suspects, a four-fold increase since the fall of 2003.

Asked whether the names in the repository were collected through the
NSA's domestic surveillance program, an NCTC official told the Post,
"Our database includes names of known and suspected international
terrorists provided by all intelligence community organizations,
including NSA."

*Homeland Defense*

As the administration scoops up more and more names, members of
Congress also have questioned the elasticity of Bush's definitions for
words like terrorist "affiliates," used to justify wiretapping Americans
allegedly in contact with such people or entities.

During the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearing on the wiretap
program, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, complained that the House
and Senate Intelligence Committees "have not been briefed on the scope
and nature of the program."

Feinstein added that, therefore, the committees "have not been able
to explore what is a link or an affiliate to al-Qaeda or what
minimization procedures (for purging the names of innocent people) are
in place."

The combination of the Bush administration's expansive reading of
its own power and its insistence on extraordinary secrecy has raised the
alarm of civil libertarians when contemplating how far the Pentagon
might go in involving itself in domestic matters.

A Defense Department document, entitled the "Strategy for Homeland
Defense and Civil Support," has set out a military strategy against
terrorism that envisions an "active, layered defense" both inside and
outside US territory. In the document, the Pentagon pledges to
"transform US military forces to execute homeland defense missions in
the ... US homeland."

The Pentagon strategy paper calls for increased military
reconnaissance and surveillance to "defeat potential challengers before
they threaten the United States." The plan "maximizes threat awareness
and seizes the initiative from those who would harm us."

But there are concerns over how the Pentagon judges "threats" and
who falls under the category "those who would harm us." A Pentagon
official said the Counterintelligence Field Activity's TALON program has
amassed files on antiwar protesters.

In December 2005, NBC News revealed the existence of a secret
400-page Pentagon document listing 1,500 "suspicious incidents" over a
10-month period, including dozens of small antiwar demonstrations that
were classified as a "threat."

The Defense Department also might be moving toward legitimizing the
use of propaganda domestically, as part of its overall war strategy.

A secret Pentagon "Information Operations Roadmap," approved by
Rumsfeld in October 2003, calls for "full spectrum" information
operations and notes that "information intended for foreign audiences,
including public diplomacy and PSYOP, increasingly is consumed by our
domestic audience and vice-versa."

"PSYOPS messages will often be replayed by the news media for much
larger audiences, including the American public," the document states.
The Pentagon argues, however, that "the distinction between foreign and
domestic audiences becomes more a question of USG [US government] intent
rather than information dissemination practices."

It calls for "boundaries" between information operations abroad and
the news media at home, but does not outline any corresponding limits on
PSYOP campaigns.

Similar to the distinction the Pentagon draws between "collecting"
and "receiving" intelligence on US citizens, the Information Operations
Roadmap argues that as long as the American public is not intentionally
"targeted," any PSYOP propaganda consumed by the American public is
acceptable.

The Pentagon plan also includes a strategy for taking over the
Internet and controlling the flow of information, viewing the Web as a
potential military adversary. The "roadmap" speaks of "fighting the
net," and implies that the Internet is the equivalent of "an enemy
weapons system."

In a speech on Feb. 17 to the Council on Foreign Relations, Rumsfeld
elaborated on the administration's perception that the battle over
information would be a crucial front in the War on Terror, or as
Rumsfeld calls it, the Long War.

"Let there be no doubt, the longer it takes to put a strategic
communication framework into place, the more we can be certain that the
vacuum will be filled by the enemy and by news informers that most
assuredly will not paint an accurate picture of what is actually taking
place," Rumsfeld said.

The Department of Homeland Security also has demonstrated a tendency
to deploy military operatives to deal with domestic crises.

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the department dispatched "heavily
armed paramilitary mercenaries from the Blackwater private security
firm, infamous for their work in Iraq, (and had them) openly patrolling
the streets of New Orleans," reported journalists Jeremy Scahill and
Daniela Crespo on Sept. 10, 2005.

Noting the reputation of the Blackwater mercenaries as "some of the
most feared professional killers in the world," Scahill and Crespo said
Blackwater's presence in New Orleans "raises alarming questions about
why the government would allow men trained to kill with impunity in
places like Iraq and Afghanistan to operate here."

*US Battlefield*

In the view of some civil libertarians, a form of martial law
already exists in the United States and has been in place since shortly
after the 9/11 attacks when Bush issued Military Order No. 1 which
empowered him to detain any non-citizen as an international terrorist or
enemy combatant.

"The President decided that he was no longer running the country as
a civilian President," wrote civil rights attorney Michael Ratner in the
book Guantanamo: What the World Should Know. "He issued a military order
giving himself the power to run the country as a general."

For any American citizen suspected of collaborating with terrorists,
Bush also revealed what's in store. In May 2002, the FBI arrested US
citizen Jose Padilla in Chicago on suspicion that he might be an
al-Qaeda operative planning an attack.

Rather than bring criminal charges, Bush designated Padilla an
"enemy combatant" and had him imprisoned indefinitely without benefit of
due process. After three years, the administration finally brought
charges against Padilla, in order to avoid a Supreme Court showdown the
White House might have lost.

But since the Court was not able to rule on the Padilla case, the
administration's arguments have not been formally repudiated. Indeed,
despite filing charges against Padilla, the White House still asserts
the right to detain US citizens without charges as enemy combatants.

This claimed authority is based on the assertion that the United
States is at war and the American homeland is part of the battlefield.

"In the war against terrorists of global reach, as the Nation
learned all too well on Sept. 11, 2001, the territory of the United
States is part of the battlefield," Bush's lawyers argued in briefs to
the federal courts. [Washington Post, July 19, 2005]

Given Bush's now open assertions that he is using his "plenary" - or
unlimited - powers as Commander in Chief for the duration of the
indefinite War on Terror, Americans can no longer trust that their
constitutional rights protect them from government actions.

As former Vice President Al Gore asked after recounting a litany of
sweeping powers that Bush has asserted to fight the War on Terror, "Can
it be true that any President really has such powers under our
Constitution? If the answer is 'yes,' then under the theory by which
these acts are committed, are there any acts that can on their face be
prohibited?"

In such extraordinary circumstances, the American people might
legitimately ask exactly what the Bush administration means by the
"rapid development of new programs," which might require the
construction of a new network of detention camps.

-------

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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:23:10 -0500
From: "Total Information" <totalinfo@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11 Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?

Add a third level --

LIHOP: Let it happen on purpose
MIHOP: Made it happen on purpose.
MIHOP: Made illusion happen on purpose

On 2/22/06, ron_winn <ron_winn@lineone.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, blackmail. It makes you wonder how clever the people we vote for are
> when they get into positions where they can get blackmailed.
>
> An excellent piece Ed, which goes to show just how much can be put into
> a few words.
>
> One thing though on the point that no one does a cover up if they are not
> connected with it.
>
> There is one other. A cover up of another's work to hide the reason why
> that other party chose to do what they did and to save a hell of a lot of
> embarrassment when there can be no realistic way to retaliate against that
> party. In this case the cover up is that of a third parties act.
>
> There would not have to be a major cover up if the party who is covering
> it up had instigated it.
>
> Was another "Pearl Harbour" really required? Wouldn't another "USS Cole"
> been enough? It was only the poor people of Afghanistan after all. The
> neocons were not afraid to muddle their way through to the invasion of Iraq.
> Was another "Pearl Harbour" required for Afghanistan? But then
> who personally drafted the "Pearl Harbour" line?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ed Barner <edwinatlcom.net@mindspring.com>
> *To:* 911InsideJobbers@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:04 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [911InsideJobbers] What exactly Should Scholars For 9/11
> Truth Be Doing Before The Cameras?
>
> I hope to see a lot of input on this question.
> Here are a few thoughts.
>
> The media wants to be seen as spectators not teachers.
> I think they'd want to report on a spectacle of some kind.
>
> I like the idea of having S9/11T in front of college crowds if possible,
> architectural or engineering connections are obviously best. although
> they know more what venues they might be comfortable in.
>
> The cover up is one main weakness of the conspirators.
>
> I have asked that people with non disclosure agreements break them based
> on the following.
>
> " If Dad, kills Mom and blames the bogyman,
> Don't help Dad hide his crime.
>
> Rat Dad off.
>
> Get a new dad who doesn't kill family members."
>
>
> Do the math.
> 9/11 + cover up = treason.
>
> Specific people aided the cover up. They can be pointed out for
> questioning about their actions in destroying evidence and suppressing
> witness accounts
> The cover up can be traced to the perps.
> No one does a cover up of a crime they are not connected to.
> "If 9/11 was done by arabs, why was there a cover up of forensic,
> eyewitness and photographic evidence and who was in a position to have done
> it? "
>
> Bob Graham and Porter Goss were doing *What* when the first plane hit the
> north tower?
>
> The falseness of the war on terra is becoming apparent to the average man
> on the street.
> The war on 'terra ' is based on 9/11
> It follows that a false flag event would not have a real emergency
> reaction from a concerned government.
> They have made no appropriate reaction because they know of the falseness
> of the 'emergency' and appropriateness now just consists of cashing in,
> which is what they have done.
>
> Strong points that I have not seen made elsewhere,
> The lack of layering in the buildings debris pile is a smoking gun because
> the materials were thoroughly mixed and did not stratify as would be
> appropriate for an unaided collapse. the lack of layering means explosives
> were used.
> The presence on the 78th floor of the south tower of Battalion Chief Orio
> J. Palmer and Fire Marshal Ronald P.* *Bucca, make blast furnace
> temperatures there, impossible.
>
> Just my comments .
> I hope thery are lost in a sea if great suggestions.
>
> Here's a parting thought.
> What if bush lost our ports because of blackmail ?
>
>
>
>
> inphoman911 wrote:
>
> Where do you want them to go, and what do you want them to say. Be
> breif but specific.
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Government procurement<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+procurement&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=S_3-2zVK9QQjTwxHvO91yw> Government
> leasing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+leasing&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=ZAuP_XFQBkNiVw-hPWWJ-Q> Government
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> lease<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+lease&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=FM8lkJddvatAkQNo00D_Cw> Government
> contract<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+contract&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=fTrsbvxC-m39UjtOdMcT-Q> Government
> money<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+money&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=HB73LsQrRnXy-2WkBh3LyA>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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>
>
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>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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> leasing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+leasing&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=ZAuP_XFQBkNiVw-hPWWJ-Q> Government
> grants for women<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+grants+for+women&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=R7KVvqXEVqN0Ct9WGPhKwg> Government
> lease<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+lease&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=FM8lkJddvatAkQNo00D_Cw> Government
> contract<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+contract&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=fTrsbvxC-m39UjtOdMcT-Q> Government
> money<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+money&w1=Government+procurement&w2=Government+leasing&w3=Government+grants+for+women&w4=Government+lease&w5=Government+contract&w6=Government+money&c=6&s=154&.sig=HB73LsQrRnXy-2WkBh3LyA>
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Discussion about 09/11/2001

Friday, February 24, 2006

[911InsideJobbers] Digest Number 398

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