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There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Would Flight 77 Have Really Thrown Cars & People Off The Highway
From: "Scott Peden" scotpeden@cruzio.com
2. Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investi
From: "Joe Stokes" joestokes@sbcglobal.net
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Message 1
From: "Scott Peden" scotpeden@cruzio.com
Date: Tue May 23, 2006 0:12am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Would Flight 77 Have Really Thrown Cars & People Off The Highway
It might have hurt their ears, but there are a lot of airports where the jets are only 30-4eet above the cars when they come in. This aircraft was suppose to be coming in at a really large angle anyway, not in a landing pattern, remember, it just did something like a 170 deg turn to hit the newly reinforced portion of the pentagon rather than the part of the pentagon that wasn’t reinforced and had lots of people in it (Like Rummy and Wolfie)……..
-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com [mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Total Information
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:35 AM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Would Flight 77 Have Really Thrown Cars & People Off The Highway
landing planes aren't travelling that fast.
watson is really offbase here
On 5/22/06, Neo Mulder < neomulder1@yahoo.com <mailto:neomulder1@yahoo.com> > wrote:
Wake turbulence argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com <http://www.prisonplanet.com/index.html>
Would Flight 77 Have Really Thrown Cars & People Off The Highway?
Wake turbulence argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | May 22 2006 <http://www.prisonplanet.com/index.html> http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/220506flight77.htm <http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/220506flight77.htm>
One of the pieces of evidence skeptics cite to claim that Flight 77 could not have hit the Pentagon is that the plane's incredibly low altitude would have thrown people and cars around the highway on the approach path like rag dolls by means of wake turbulence. How accurate is this assumption?
The scope of this short article is to raise questions, not debunk either side of the argument.
Wake turbulence is a problem for air traffic controllers and they have to schedule landings and take-offs carefully to ensure that planes do not adversely affect each other's balance by means of vortices created by wake turbulence. Wake turbulence takes around two minutes to clear.
Photographs and eyewitness accounts are consistent with the plane having an altitude of around 20 feet and traveling at 530 miles an hour, clipping lamp posts as it descended towards the Pentagon.
Many skeptics point to the 1999 movie Pushing Tin as an example of the effects of wake turbulence. At the end of the film, the main characters, played by Billy Bob Thornton and John Cusack, stand beneath a large commercial airliner as it comes in to land. The plane passes overhead and then lands on the runway, at which point both men are lifted up into the air and tossed a significant distance off to the side of the runway.
While a movie scene created by special effects can by no means be held up as empirical scientific evidence of the effects of wake turbulence it can at least be accepted that such a big budget production would go to great lengths to accurately portray what would happen.
Therefore it's salient to note that the two men are only thrown off the runway when they are in direct line of sight with the engines of the plane (after or just as the plane is landing) and are not affected when the plane is overhead.
So is it reasonable to conclude that wake turbulence is not going to cause significant problems for any object or person standing a reasonable distance below a jetliner?
Many point to the clipping and downing of lamp posts as evidence of the object's incredulous altitude. The damage of the lamp posts is consistent with a jetliner having a wingspan of over 100 feet, as can be seen in this illustration <http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/path_map3.jpg> . A Boeing 757 has a wingspan of 125 feet.
Should cars and people have been tossed around the highway if a large commercial airliner whizzed by 20 feet above their heads?
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<http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=505764>
Look at this photograph of a KLM Royal Dutch Airlines Boeing 747 (click to enlarge) coming in to land at St. Maarten-Princess Juliana Int'l Airport in the Netherlands. The photographer claims the plane only cleared the fence by about 10 feet and we can estimate that it is not more than 30 feet above the people stood on the beach, yet there is no sign of waves or even sand plumes being lifted off the ground by any wake turbulence caused by the aircraft.
<http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5715560>
This is a photograph of an American Airlines 757-200, the exact same model as Flight 77, flying over the same beach. Though the aircraft appears slightly higher than the KLM jet, one would expect air traffic controllers would compensate for an unusually low approach angle and be satisfied that any wake turbulence would not under any circumstance throw people around the beach.
<http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5694358>
Here is another shot of a Boeing 757. Again, not even grains of sand are affected by the low approach. Click any of these photos for enlargements.
<http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5730659>
Here is another example.
It is also understood that wake turbulence and wing vortices are far stronger when the plane is flying at a slow speed, as it would be coming in to land in these photographs. The fact that Flight 77 was traveling at an estimated 530 MPH would decrease the strength of wake turbulence.
One eyewitness claims that the object that hit the Pentagon was just six feet off the ground as it clipped a generator and even a car antenna before impacting on the building. In this instance one would surely expect the wake turbulence to have some affect and photographs do show the damaged generator <http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/generator_gouge_small.jpg> immediately in front of the building.
While further confirmation will obviously be necessary in closing the case, it appears the argument that the lack of damage from wake turbulence does not prove that anything other than a large commercial airliner hit the Pentagon on September 11 2001.
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Message 2
From: "Joe Stokes" joestokes@sbcglobal.net
Date: Tue May 23, 2006 4:03am(PDT)
Subject: Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investi
Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investigation
Download this press release as an Adobe PDF document.
The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2~4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure).
Utica, NY (PRWEB) May 22, 2006 -- 911Truth.org urges 2006 reform candidates to recognize a powerful new constituency.
Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.
The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible U.S. government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2~4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure). The poll of American residents was conducted from Friday, May 12 through Tuesday, May 16, 2006. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.9. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.
According to Janice Matthews, executive director of 911truth.org, "To those of us who have followed the mounting evidence for US government involvement in 9/11, these results are both heartening and frankly quite amazing, given the mainstream media's ongoing refusal to cover the most critical questions of that day. Our August 2004 Zogby poll of New Yorkers showed nearly half believe certain U.S. officials 'consciously' allowed the attacks to happen and 66% want a fresh investigation, but these were people closest to the tragedy and most familiar with facts refuting the official account. This revelation that so many millions nationwide now also recognize a 9/11 cover up and the need for a new inquiry should be a wake up call for all 2006 political candidates hoping to turn this country around. We think it also indicates Americans are awakening to the larger pattern of deceit that led us into Constitutional twilight and endless war, and that our independent media may have
finally come of age."
Poll co-author W. David Kubiak concurs, saying "Despite years of relentless media promotion, whitewash and 9/11 Commission propaganda, the official 9/11 story still can't even muster 50% popular support. Since this myth has been the administration's primary source of political and war-making power, this level of distrust has revolutionary implications for everyone working for peace, justice and civil liberties. If we ever hope to reclaim this country, end aggression and restore international respect, we all must finally scrutinize that day when things started to go so terribly wrong. The media and movement leaders ignore this call at their peril, because tens of millions are clearly telling us here they are ready for 9/11 truth."
SCOPE: The poll covered five related areas: 1) Iraq - do Americans think the Bush administration exploited 9/11 to attack Iraq? (44% do, 44% don't); 2) Cover up - did the government and its 9/11 Commission conceal or refuse to investigate evidence that contradicts their official story? (only 48% said no); 3) The collapse of WTC 7, which was not even mentioned by the 9/11 Commission and has seldom been reported in the media -were respondents aware of this collapse and, if so, did they think it should be investigated (only 52% knew about it, but over 70% of this group believe it should have been investigated); 4) new investigation of official complicity - do respondents think we need one? (only 48% said no); and 5) mass media - how do people rate its performance, including its coverage of alternative 9/11 theories, unanswered questions and inquiry issues? (43% rate it positively, 55% negatively).
(Poll sponsors see knowledge of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 as a bellwether issue, because if people do not know this elementary fact, they have probably not been exposed to any independent 9/11 research at all. Since only 52% of respondents had ever heard of this collapse and 45% support a reinvestigation, it may be reasonably inferred that a public fully informed of all the unreported 9/11 facts might support a new investigation by a margin of 80% or more.)
SPONSOR: 911truth.org is a coalition of researchers, journalists and victim family members working to expose and answer the hundreds of still unresolved questions concerning 9/11, especially the nearly 400 questions that the Family Steering Committee filed with the 9/11 Commission. Initially welcomed by the commissioners as their "road map", these queries cut to the heart of 9/11 crimes and accountability, specifically raising the central issues of motive, means and cui bono (who profited?). The Commission ultimately ignored 80% of these issues, however, opting only to explore system failures, miscommunications and incompetence. The victim families' most incisive questions remain unaddressed to this day.
For more information on the Chicago "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming our Future" conference and other developments, see http://www.911revealingthetruth.org and http://www.911truth.org or contact 911truth.org media spokesman, Michael Berger at 314-308-4893.
*Numerical computations conservatively based on 2000 Census data citing 174 million Americans between the ages of 18 and 64. NOTE: Given US Census Bureau data projecting 184 million Americans between the ages of 18 and 64 in 2005, the actual number of Americans who distrust the official 9/11 story is, then, over 80 million.
Survey Methodology: Zogby America, 5/12/06 through 5/16/06
This is a telephone survey of adults nationwide conducted by Zogby International. The target sample is 1,200 interviews with approximately 81 questions asked. Samples are randomly drawn from telephone Cd's of national listed sample. Zogby International surveys employ sampling strategies in which selection probabilities are proportional to population size within area codes and exchanges. As many as six calls are made to reach a sampled phone number. Cooperation rates are calculated using one of AAPOR�s approved methodologies1 and are comparable to other professional public-opinion surveys conducted using similar sampling strategies.2 Weighting by region, party, age, race, religion, and gender is used to adjust for non-response. The margin of error is +/- 2.9 percentage points. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups.
Zogby International�s sampling and weighting procedures also have been validated through its political polling: more than 95% of the firm�s polls have come within 1% of actual election-day outcomes.
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