There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Polls
From: Mofmars3@wmconnect.com
2. Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
3. Re: Polls
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
4. Re: Polls
From: Mofmars3@wmconnect.com
5. Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
6. RE: We're winning (we've won?)
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
7. D-Day 6-6-06 TRUTH INVASION Ground Zero!
From: "Greg Nixon" <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
8. Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: James Patton <james_patton@yahoo.com>
9. Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
10. 3rd. Plane
From: "kitty285" <kitty285@charter.net>
11. 9/11 Truth & Moussaoui Trial in Alexandria?
From: "livetrii" <acorn.ista@gmail.com>
12. RE: 3rd. Plane
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
13. Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: "Tom" <Tom@RepresentativePress.org>
14. Re: Isn�t Everybody Sick & Tired of the 911 Conspiracy Freaks?
From: Scott Legere <sledger911@yahoo.com>
15. Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: "Cait" <ansith@gmail.com>
16. Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
From: Scott Legere <sledger911@yahoo.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:03:35 EST
From: Mofmars3@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: Polls
I already voted but can't post comments because they wont take for some
reason
Marsha
alanrandom@yahoo.com writes:
> I just recommended it, rated the comments, and added 3 comments of my own.
> And it feels good!
> Who's next?
>
> botalerts <botalerts@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> <A HREF="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/1/17158/84300">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/1/17158/84300</A>
>>
>>
>
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:03:52 -0800 (PST)
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
OK Tom,
Welcome to 911truthaction.
(attn moderators: Please don't ban Tom)
I appreciate your perspective and I understand & agree with your concern about US MiddleEast policy inspiring terrorism.
But if 9/11 wasn't an inside job, please answer these questions for me:
- What about the 47 core columns in both towers that are ignored by the official story? The official pancake theory could not have happened with those core columns present.
- Yes, the vertical collapse of the towers is consistent with physics and with the building's design. But the speed of the collapses is not. How can you explain the buildings falling at or near free-fall speed?
- If WTC7's fall is so easily explained, why did the 9/11 Commission Report completely ignore it? If you were investigating a triple murder, would you ignore the 3rd victim just because he was shorter?
- If WTC7 was so heavily damaged on only one side (the side that there are apparently no pictures of) why did it fall symetrically straight down equally on all sides?
- Why would they confiscate all surveillance tapes that would have shown the Pentagon crash? And why have they refused to release them?
- How do you explain the pools of molten steel that remained for over 6 weeks after the WTC collapses? (mainstream news) Office furniture did that?!? Something melted that steel. And all sides agree it couldn't have been the jet fuel. So what then?
- How could the Arab terrorists pull off these complex maneuvers with no help from the ground when by all accounts, they couldn't even fly Cessnas?
- Why were the tapes of the 9/11 air traffic controllers systematically destroyed?
- After being informed of the second tower strike, why would Bush remain for over an hour at Booker Elementary, even giving a press conference from there, thus potentially endangering the lives of hundreds of kids, if anyone actually thought the attacks were real? ( Bush's itinerary was public knowledge. Bin Laden knew where to get him. Why did Secret Service not follow Standard Operating Procedure in such an event?)
- Why has there been no official investigation into the bizarre spike in put-options of 9/11 related businesses immediately prior to 9/11?
- If Bin Laden did it, why would he initially deny any knowledge or involvement, only to later, according to the CIA's many laughably obvious fake recordings, take full responsibilty?
- If the hijackers were such devoted Muslims ready to commit suicide for Allah, why did so many witnesses, in and out of US Intel, report seeing them carousing like drunken frat boys at various bars and strip clubs prior to 9/11? (Mohammad Atta, in particular, was a notorious party boy)
- Why have many FBI and CIA whistle-blowers reported that their pre- 9/11 investigations of the 19 alleged hijackers were deliberately thwarted by higher-ups at every turn?
- Why, as reported in le Figaro (France) and the UK Guardian, and never challenged or retracted, were CIA agents meeting with Bin Laden in a Dubai Hospital in the summer of 2001? (he was already "wanted" for the Cole and US Embassy bombings.)
I could go on and on, but I'll stop here for now and see how you do on these.
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
Indications of the Imminent Collapse
of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove
the "Controlled Explosions Theory"
Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition" "The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday." There would not be telltale signs if it was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.
"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m. "
What is clear is at least eight minutes before WTC 1 collapsed, the structure of the building was failing. This simply would not be happening if explosives caused the collapse because explosives don't go off in slow motion for eight minutes. Obviously, the way an actual controlled explosion happens is the explosives all go off in a matter of seconds. There simply would not be warning signs that the buildings were about to be demolished by explosives, it would of course just suddenly happen. But that is not what happened, the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any indications that they would. Instead, the fires were compromising the structural integrity of the buildings and as the buildings' support structures failed, the exterior started to buckle and this bucking was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said
at a presentation in midtown. " They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings were bowing. "Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
See full article below. For Info on the collapse WTC 7, see Facts about 9/11.
We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies.
People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory, I also notice they don't talk about ending the foreign policies. Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the people.
False theories like "9/11 was a controlled demolition" or "9/11 was an inside job" or "The WTC collapsed because of explosives" really f*** up efforts to stop the specific foreign policies that put our nation at risk. These false theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign polcies addressed, for example, U.S. support for Israel.
I suspect more than a few people pushing these false theories are very happy to misdirrect the American public away from questioning specific foreign policies like U.S. support for Israel. (It is the main policy of the foreign policies that motivated the 9/11 terrorists. The plotter of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, actaully went to school here in the U.S. He was angry at the U.S. not because of his experiences here as a student, but rather because of the U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.) I am working hard to set the record straight and end the risk of terrorism. Please Click on the Representative Press Logo and Donate to help me get the truth out. Those conspiracy websites are clearly well funded and like I have said, they misdirrect the American public away from questioning specific foreign polices like U.S. support for Israel. I need some money to work with to undo the damage these websites are doing and get the facts to the people. 9/11 was not a game, these conspiracy
theories undermine efforts to get the government to change the unjust Middle East policies: Full article below: 9/11 cops saw collapse coming New York Daily News - June 19th, 2004 By PAUL H.B. SHIN
The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.
In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.
But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes.
"The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown.
"[If] that information would have been communicated faster to all of the emergency responders in the buildings, it could have helped save lives," he said.
Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.
The findings that emergency responders could have been warned about the imminent collapse angered some victims' relatives, who were already fuming about the 9/11 Commission's report on Thursday that government foulups contributed to the chaos on that fateful day.
"Eight to 10 minutes could have meant life for so many people," said Sally Regenhard, whose son, Christian, was a probationary firefighter who died in the collapse.
"We had no integrated command structure, so that the Police Department was unable to communicate the fact that the building was going to collapse to the Fire Department," she said. "It's a knife in the heart of the relatives of the victims."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
If the twin towers had been fully occupied - 25,000 people - it would have taken four hours to evacuate the buildings.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
- http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040619.html
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:09:14 -0800 (PST)
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Polls
You have to sign up to be a member & then log in to post comments. It's free but I think there's a 24 hour waiting period before you can post.
Mofmars3@wmconnect.com wrote: I already voted but can't post comments because they wont take for some reason
Marsha
alanrandom@yahoo.com writes:
I just recommended it, rated the comments, and added 3 comments of my own.
And it feels good!
Who's next?
botalerts <botalerts@yahoo.ca> wrote:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/1/17158/84300
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:28:10 EST
From: Mofmars3@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: Polls
I know, Alan, and I have but there always comes an error so I just gave
up...I have sent for the new password and the whole caboodle & instead of my
comments appearing, I receive an error page every time
I vote and recommend to others, though
Marsha
[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:38:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
believe me brother, i CANNOT ban tom........no censoring remember?
it just makes me hot (as in mad) when people start parroting the official story lite.
alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com> wrote:
OK Tom,
Welcome to 911truthaction.
(attn moderators: Please don't ban Tom)
I appreciate your perspective and I understand & agree with your concern about US MiddleEast policy inspiring terrorism.
But if 9/11 wasn't an inside job, please answer these questions for me:
- What about the 47 core columns in both towers that are ignored by the official story? The official pancake theory could not have happened with those core columns present.
- Yes, the vertical collapse of the towers is consistent with physics and with the building's design. But the speed of the collapses is not. How can you explain the buildings falling at or near free-fall speed?
- If WTC7's fall is so easily explained, why did the 9/11 Commission Report completely ignore it? If you were investigating a triple murder, would you ignore the 3rd victim just because he was shorter?
- If WTC7 was so heavily damaged on only one side (the side that there are apparently no pictures of) why did it fall symetrically straight down equally on all sides?
- Why would they confiscate all surveillance tapes that would have shown the Pentagon crash? And why have they refused to release them?
- How do you explain the pools of molten steel that remained for over 6 weeks after the WTC collapses? (mainstream news) Office furniture did that?!? Something melted that steel. And all sides agree it couldn't have been the jet fuel. So what then?
- How could the Arab terrorists pull off these complex maneuvers with no help from the ground when by all accounts, they couldn't even fly Cessnas?
- Why were the tapes of the 9/11 air traffic controllers systematically destroyed?
- After being informed of the second tower strike, why would Bush remain for over an hour at Booker Elementary, even giving a press conference from there, thus potentially endangering the lives of hundreds of kids, if anyone actually thought the attacks were real? ( Bush's itinerary was public knowledge. Bin Laden knew where to get him. Why did Secret Service not follow Standard Operating Procedure in such an event?)
- Why has there been no official investigation into the bizarre spike in put-options of 9/11 related businesses immediately prior to 9/11?
- If Bin Laden did it, why would he initially deny any knowledge or involvement, only to later, according to the CIA's many laughably obvious fake recordings, take full responsibilty?
- If the hijackers were such devoted Muslims ready to commit suicide for Allah, why did so many witnesses, in and out of US Intel, report seeing them carousing like drunken frat boys at various bars and strip clubs prior to 9/11? (Mohammad Atta, in particular, was a notorious party boy)
- Why have many FBI and CIA whistle-blowers reported that their pre- 9/11 investigations of the 19 alleged hijackers were deliberately thwarted by higher-ups at every turn?
- Why, as reported in le Figaro (France) and the UK Guardian, and never challenged or retracted, were CIA agents meeting with Bin Laden in a Dubai Hospital in the summer of 2001? (he was already "wanted" for the Cole and US Embassy bombings.)
I could go on and on, but I'll stop here for now and see how you do on these.
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
Indications of the Imminent Collapse
of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove
the "Controlled Explosions Theory"
Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition" "The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday." There would not be telltale signs if it was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.
"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m. "
What is clear is at least eight minutes before WTC 1 collapsed, the structure of the building was failing. This simply would not be happening if explosives caused the collapse because explosives don't go off in slow motion for eight minutes. Obviously, the way an actual controlled explosion happens is the explosives all go off in a matter of seconds. There simply would not be warning signs that the buildings were about to be demolished by explosives, it would of course just suddenly happen. But that is not what happened, the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any indications that they would. Instead, the fires were compromising the structural integrity of the buildings and as the buildings' support structures failed, the exterior started to buckle and this bucking was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said
at a presentation in midtown. " They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings were bowing. "Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
See full article below. For Info on the collapse WTC 7, see Facts about 9/11.
We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies.
People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory, I also notice they don't talk about ending the foreign policies. Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the people.
False theories like "9/11 was a controlled demolition" or "9/11 was an inside job" or "The WTC collapsed because of explosives" really f*** up efforts to stop the specific foreign policies that put our nation at risk. These false theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign polcies addressed, for example, U.S. support for Israel.
I suspect more than a few people pushing these false theories are very happy to misdirrect the American public away from questioning specific foreign policies like U.S. support for Israel. (It is the main policy of the foreign policies that motivated the 9/11 terrorists. The plotter of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, actaully went to school here in the U.S. He was angry at the U.S. not because of his experiences here as a student, but rather because of the U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.) I am working hard to set the record straight and end the risk of terrorism. Please Click on the Representative Press Logo and Donate to help me get the truth out. Those conspiracy websites are clearly well funded and like I have said, they misdirrect the American public away from questioning specific foreign polices like U.S. support for Israel. I need some money to work with to undo the damage these websites are doing and get the facts to the people. 9/11 was not a game, these conspiracy
theories undermine efforts to get the government to change the unjust Middle East policies: Full article below: 9/11 cops saw collapse coming New York Daily News - June 19th, 2004 By PAUL H.B. SHIN
The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.
In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.
But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes.
"The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown.
"[If] that information would have been communicated faster to all of the emergency responders in the buildings, it could have helped save lives," he said.
Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.
The findings that emergency responders could have been warned about the imminent collapse angered some victims' relatives, who were already fuming about the 9/11 Commission's report on Thursday that government foulups contributed to the chaos on that fateful day.
"Eight to 10 minutes could have meant life for so many people," said Sally Regenhard, whose son, Christian, was a probationary firefighter who died in the collapse.
"We had no integrated command structure, so that the Police Department was unable to communicate the fact that the building was going to collapse to the Fire Department," she said. "It's a knife in the heart of the relatives of the victims."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
If the twin towers had been fully occupied - 25,000 people - it would have taken four hours to evacuate the buildings.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
- http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040619.html
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:15:44 -0800
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: We're winning (we've won?)
Pat� pat� pat�. Back to work�. And more work� and more work.
Reminds me of the quote I always slaughter, I think a woman said it goes
something like
Do not believe that a small group of dedicated people can change the world,
in fact, that often is all that does change the world.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of DOUGLAS CLARK
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:57 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] We're winning (we've won?)
THREE CHEERS, AND MAY HEAVEN BLESS THOSE WHO ARE SINCERE ABOUT BRINGING THIS
GREAT SIN TO LIGHT!!
Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please take a minute to pat yourselves on the back. What seemed like an
impossible task a few years ago is near completion. Government complicity in
9-11 is now common conversation, and this milestone seemed quite fantastic a
few short years ago.
Our efforts have paid off in a big way, and I do believe that we can still
save this nation. Please prepare for an economic crash, and the possibility
of ensuing chaos, but remember that America, and its constitution will
prevail.
Every day more Americans are realizing they can no longer ignore their
government, and the awakening of millions of us is leaving the "elected"
criminals powerless.
We will see ! hard times, and we may have to fight for what we believe, but
freedom and liberty will survive for the next generation to enjoy. Hopefully
they'll learn from our struggle that freedom and liberty will always need to
be defended from tyranny.
To Naveed -- Thanks for holding the fort. You're a point-man, not a flanker.
To Alan -- Thanks for fighting the internet trolls all across the web.
To Cathy -- excellent article
To Kevin -- excellent website
To Alex -- yes -- the scholors do kick butt, and they've given this
movement a much-needed dose of credibility. I'm writing them a letter to ask
them to make it possible to print the articles from their website for local
distribution. I love Prof. Jones' "Why Indeed Did the Towers Collapse?," but
I can't seem to print it.
Greg has taken a vacation from the group, but I still have to thank him here
for organizing an excellent demontration.!
"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT MY WEBSITE ( 911again.tripod.com
<http://911again.tripod.com> ) TO OTHER GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS.
AS ALWAYS, THE BEST OF HEALTH AND TIMES TO YOU AND YOURS.
DOUGLAS CLARK
7320 HERMITAGE ST
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[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 02:01:44 -0000
From: "Greg Nixon" <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: D-Day 6-6-06 TRUTH INVASION Ground Zero!
This is a feeler folks.
On June 6th 2006 9/11 activists scale the fence at Ground
Zero and occupy the pit until the media airs our message.
In the pit we will have a movie projector running the film of the WTC
Demolition over and over! We can project against a makeshift screen
on the wall.
Camp 9/11 takes to the former World Trade center and demands
an end to the fraudulent "war on Terror"
Camp 9/11 at Ground Zero is a dedication to all our lost American
souls, all 2,749 of them, slaughtered by the Bush regime.
Camp 9/11 the last outpost of truth in occupied America!
6/06/2006 is D-Day. 6/06/2006 is the Truth Invasion!
Ground Zero belongs to the Americans killed in this frameup on
humanity. Let's take the symbolism back from the Bush regime by
taking back Ground Zero. Let's camp out in the pit to honor the dead.
let's address 9/11 and END THE WAR ON TERROR!
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:04:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: James Patton <james_patton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
Hi all,
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
> People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories
> undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping
> these foreign policies. We must take a serious look
> at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for
> a full review of the specific foreign policies that
> motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people
> are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory,
> I also notice they don't talk about ending the foreign
> policies.
Well, I for one was opposed to the invasion of Afghanistan, and I marched
and did all within my rather meagre powers to oppose the war on Iraq -
we dug graves in public to make people mindful of the innocent victims
this war would cause; did a funeral march through the streets dressed in black and carrying coffins; did street theatre about depleted uranium; set up
a cage in the middle of Perth with a mock Guantanamo victim inside;
printed and handed out fliers; spoke about these issues with family and friends;
sent out hundreds of e-mails; we even tried to drive through the streets
of Perth with loudspeakers simulating the 'shock and awe' terrorist attacks
on Baghdad and distributing mutilated 'corpses', but the police seemed
to be ready for us on that one and quickly shut our protest down.
I also organised a public viewing of the excellent video 'What I Have
Learned About U.S. Foreign Policy'. (Unfortunately these events only
ever seem to attract a handful of already hardened activists - it's a bit like
'preaching to the choir'.)
And yes, we marched to the U.S. Consulate in Perth and protested outside.
Marching through the streets of Perth we waved banners opposing the war
and chanted
USA - USA - How many kids have you killed today?
And please note, I was involved in all this BEFORE I believed 9/11
was an inside job!!
I'm also on mailing lists that bitterly oppose the occupation of Iraq, U.S. policy
in Israel, the impending war in Iran, and U.S. foreign policy in general,
where the majority of people seem to dismiss the 9/11 insiders as being
"conspiracy theorists".
(see for example anti-allawi-group@ yahoogroups.com)
To see the egregious and horrid nature of U.S. foreign policies is easy:
Just go and get a copy of Addicted to War or watch What I Have Learned
About U.S. Foreign Policy, or else read William Blum's excellent Rogue State:
A Guide to the World's Only Superpower.
They're all easily available here:
http://www.addictedtowar.com/
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1567511945/102-3205371-7573754?v=glance&n=283155
So yes, even when I believed 9/11 was BLOWBACK against the U.S. due
to it's horrendous history of foreign policy, I was still bitterly opposed to its
policies of aggression.
So please drop this completely unfounded crap about 'don't talk about
ending the foreign policies.'
Who are you to make this criticism?
Anyway, didn't you notice? This mailing list is "911TruthAction" -
there's dozens of other mailing lists devoted to ending/changing
US foreign policy. Dial one of those up if that's the topic you
want to discuss.
. . .
But while we're on the subject of conveniently explaining away all the
'coincidences' of September 11 2001, in addition to the excellent
questions below, can you also explain:
* why has no other steel frame structure building, either before or after 9/11,
EVER collapsed due to fire, even though some of them have burned
MUCH hotter and for MUCH longer?
* what happened to the wreckage of the plane at the Pentagon? How could
titanium alloy engines have 'disintegrated' in the inferno, when jet fuel simply
does not burn hot enough? This is scientifically impossible!
* how could the 9/11 hijacker, who supposedly flew into the Pentagon,
have pulled off such complex aerial manouevres in a commercial airliner,
when one of the flight instructors described him as being an average
to below average pilot, even in a small Cessna aircraft around a local airport?
Maybe he had the help of Allah?
* why did the 'terrorists' who hit the Pentagon hit the unoccupied west wing,
when Rumsfeld and all the top military brass were conveniently sitting safely
on the other side? Did the hijackers, after so many months of meticulous
planning, and with such excellent piloting skills, want to spare the lives
of these men?
* why in the photo of the Pentagon is there a stool, with an opened book,
made of PAPER, that is unsinged? Wouldn't the 'raging inferno' of jet fuel,
hot enough to disintegrate titanium alloy, have consumed a paper book
in an instant?
* how did one of the hijackers' passport, made of PAPER, conveniently survive
the WTC crash, but the black boxes didn't?
May I ask, have you seriously examined the evidence?
People with military minds supressed their foreknowledge about the
bombing of Pearl Harbor, leading to hundreds of unnecessary deaths,
in order to get America into WWII.
People with military minds nuclear bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
instantly evaporating tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children,
and then made up bogus stories to justify it.
They firebombed Dresden, a largely civilian city, which was housing tens
of thousands of innocent refugees who had escaped there for refuge.
They lied about the Gulf of Tonkin event in order to violently attack Vietnam
and slaughter millions of Vietnamese "communists".
When confronted with the deaths of HALF A MILLION children in Iraq
due to their egregious sanctions regime, Madelaine Albright just said
"we think the price is worth it", and most people didn't bat an eyelid.
They LIED and LIED about Iraq's non-existent WMD, when they well knew
that the war on Iraq was preplanned all along.
When confronted with the fact of 10,000 or more innocent civilian deaths
in Iraq after "shock and awe", it didn't even upset Rumsfeld and his ilk's
breakfast.
And you think these same sort of military minds could care less about
a few thousand people in New York and a few heavily insured buildings
if it allowed them to pursue their foreign policy agendas?
Grow up and join the real world. Or did you come down in the last shower
of rain?
Kind regards,
James.
Oh yes, here it is:
The 911 Coincidence Guide
At Last, A Cogent Response to Those Nutty 911 Conspiracy Theories
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/coincidence911guide15aug04.shtml http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html
Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
then would you mind explaining where the hell did those pools of molten steel that were found
weeks later 70 feet below ground were formed?
would you mind explaining what the hell happened with building 7?
why not the eyewitness reports of hearing explosions?
exploding furniture?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fire.htm
you mind explaining why the hell did the construction manager of the WTC complexes went on
record (before 9/11) to say that the buildings were designed to take a hit from a 707 possibly two? and
he went on to say that an airplane would effect the building like a pencil poking misquito
netting? (hardly any damage)
you mind explaining the alleged "inferno" that caused the "bending" could have allowed people to
be standing in the holes the planes made? Relatives of superman?
oh yeah why don't you look up the photographic evidence of the windows being blown out right
next to the building next to the WTCs........ it must have been the jet fuel traveling down the
elevator shafts that blew them out, right?
what about the fact that the steel beams were nicely cut like confetti? when looking at the site
with a birdseye view?
almost forgot, what bout the squibs that were made as the buildings were brought down???
last but not least what bout the reports of bush planning on attacking pipeghanistan in the
summer and spring of 01 that was in the foriegn press?
BBC, Janes information group, Times of India?
the Whore on Terror is a giant fraud to destroy the bedrock of what was the land of the free and
home of the brave.....
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
Indications of the Imminent Collapse
of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove
the "Controlled Explosions Theory"
Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition" "The World Trade Center towers showed
telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground,
scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday." There would not be telltale signs if it
was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.
"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an
inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m. "
What is clear is at least eight minutes before WTC 1 collapsed, the structure of the building was
failing. This simply would not be happening if explosives caused the collapse because explosives
don't go off in slow motion for eight minutes. Obviously, the way an actual controlled explosion
happens is the explosives all go off in a matter of seconds. There simply would not be warning signs
that the buildings were about to be demolished by explosives, it would of course just suddenly
happen. But that is not what happened, the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any
indications that they would. Instead, the fires were compromising the structural integrity of the buildings
and as the buildings' support structures failed, the exterior started to buckle and this bucking
was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "The NYPD aviation
unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator
Shyam Sunder said
at a presentation in midtown. " They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings
were bowing. "Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors
was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came
crashing down."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there
was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not
have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural
beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
See full article below. For Info on the collapse WTC 7, see Facts about 9/11.
We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies.
People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping
these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for
a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot
of people are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory, I also notice they don't talk about
ending the foreign policies. Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the
people.
False theories like "9/11 was a controlled demolition" or "9/11 was an inside job" or "The WTC
collapsed because of explosives" really f*** up efforts to stop the specific foreign policies that
put our nation at risk. These false theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign polcies
addressed, for example, U.S. support for Israel.
I suspect more than a few people pushing these false theories are very happy to misdirrect the
American public away from questioning specific foreign policies like U.S. support for Israel. (It
is the main policy of the foreign policies that motivated the 9/11 terrorists. The plotter of 9/11,
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, actaully went to school here in the U.S. He was angry at the U.S. not
because of his experiences here as a student, but rather because of the U.S. foreign policy favoring
Israel.) I am working hard to set the record straight and end the risk of terrorism. Please Click
on the Representative Press Logo and Donate to help me get the truth out. Those conspiracy websites
are clearly well funded and like I have said, they misdirrect the American public away from
questioning specific foreign polices like U.S. support for Israel. I need some money to work with to
undo the damage these websites are doing and get the facts to the people. 9/11 was not a game, these
conspiracy
theories undermine efforts to get the government to change the unjust Middle East policies: Full
article below: 9/11 cops saw collapse coming New York Daily News - June 19th, 2004 By PAUL
H.B. SHIN
The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes
before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.
In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an
inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.
But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty
communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of
Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes.
"The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the
buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown.
"[If] that information would have been communicated faster to all of the emergency responders in
the buildings, it could have helped save lives," he said.
Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the
critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.
The findings that emergency responders could have been warned about the imminent collapse angered
some victims' relatives, who were already fuming about the 9/11 Commission's report on Thursday
that government foulups contributed to the chaos on that fateful day.
"Eight to 10 minutes could have meant life for so many people," said Sally Regenhard, whose son,
Christian, was a probationary firefighter who died in the collapse.
"We had no integrated command structure, so that the Police Department was unable to communicate
the fact that the building was going to collapse to the Fire Department," she said. "It's a knife
in the heart of the relatives of the victims."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there
was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
If the twin towers had been fully occupied - 25,000 people - it would have taken four hours to
evacuate the buildings.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not
have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural
beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
- http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040619.html
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In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When
his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904
---------------------------------
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[This message contained attachments]
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:18:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
ya,
perfect trauma-based mind control exercise....... watch people die infront of your very eyes and tell you the moon is made of cheese.......people will actually go and defend that notion to the death afterwards if you argue with them otherwise eh?
the globalist SOBs are responsible for the calamities of foreign policy of the USA, and the media is an accessory before and after the fact......
and the bottom-line is there are no "real" terrorists other than the useful idiots working for the globalists......
sorry to hear about the gun confiscation you guys had down under.....
they tried a limited confiscation during katrina....beating up old ladies and taking their guns
James Patton <james_patton@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
> People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories
> undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping
> these foreign policies. We must take a serious look
> at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for
> a full review of the specific foreign policies that
> motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people
> are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory,
> I also notice they don't talk about ending the foreign
> policies.
Well, I for one was opposed to the invasion of Afghanistan, and I marched
and did all within my rather meagre powers to oppose the war on Iraq -
we dug graves in public to make people mindful of the innocent victims
this war would cause; did a funeral march through the streets dressed in black and carrying coffins; did street theatre about depleted uranium; set up
a cage in the middle of Perth with a mock Guantanamo victim inside;
printed and handed out fliers; spoke about these issues with family and friends;
sent out hundreds of e-mails; we even tried to drive through the streets
of Perth with loudspeakers simulating the 'shock and awe' terrorist attacks
on Baghdad and distributing mutilated 'corpses', but the police seemed
to be ready for us on that one and quickly shut our protest down.
I also organised a public viewing of the excellent video 'What I Have
Learned About U.S. Foreign Policy'. (Unfortunately these events only
ever seem to attract a handful of already hardened activists - it's a bit like
'preaching to the choir'.)
And yes, we marched to the U.S. Consulate in Perth and protested outside.
Marching through the streets of Perth we waved banners opposing the war
and chanted
USA - USA - How many kids have you killed today?
And please note, I was involved in all this BEFORE I believed 9/11
was an inside job!!
I'm also on mailing lists that bitterly oppose the occupation of Iraq, U.S. policy
in Israel, the impending war in Iran, and U.S. foreign policy in general,
where the majority of people seem to dismiss the 9/11 insiders as being
"conspiracy theorists".
(see for example anti-allawi-group@ yahoogroups.com)
To see the egregious and horrid nature of U.S. foreign policies is easy:
Just go and get a copy of Addicted to War or watch What I Have Learned
About U.S. Foreign Policy, or else read William Blum's excellent Rogue State:
A Guide to the World's Only Superpower.
They're all easily available here:
http://www.addictedtowar.com/
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1567511945/102-3205371-7573754?v=glance&n=283155
So yes, even when I believed 9/11 was BLOWBACK against the U.S. due
to it's horrendous history of foreign policy, I was still bitterly opposed to its
policies of aggression.
So please drop this completely unfounded crap about 'don't talk about
ending the foreign policies.'
Who are you to make this criticism?
Anyway, didn't you notice? This mailing list is "911TruthAction" -
there's dozens of other mailing lists devoted to ending/changing
US foreign policy. Dial one of those up if that's the topic you
want to discuss.
. . .
But while we're on the subject of conveniently explaining away all the
'coincidences' of September 11 2001, in addition to the excellent
questions below, can you also explain:
* why has no other steel frame structure building, either before or after 9/11,
EVER collapsed due to fire, even though some of them have burned
MUCH hotter and for MUCH longer?
* what happened to the wreckage of the plane at the Pentagon? How could
titanium alloy engines have 'disintegrated' in the inferno, when jet fuel simply
does not burn hot enough? This is scientifically impossible!
* how could the 9/11 hijacker, who supposedly flew into the Pentagon,
have pulled off such complex aerial manouevres in a commercial airliner,
when one of the flight instructors described him as being an average
to below average pilot, even in a small Cessna aircraft around a local airport?
Maybe he had the help of Allah?
* why did the 'terrorists' who hit the Pentagon hit the unoccupied west wing,
when Rumsfeld and all the top military brass were conveniently sitting safely
on the other side? Did the hijackers, after so many months of meticulous
planning, and with such excellent piloting skills, want to spare the lives
of these men?
* why in the photo of the Pentagon is there a stool, with an opened book,
made of PAPER, that is unsinged? Wouldn't the 'raging inferno' of jet fuel,
hot enough to disintegrate titanium alloy, have consumed a paper book
in an instant?
* how did one of the hijackers' passport, made of PAPER, conveniently survive
the WTC crash, but the black boxes didn't?
May I ask, have you seriously examined the evidence?
People with military minds supressed their foreknowledge about the
bombing of Pearl Harbor, leading to hundreds of unnecessary deaths,
in order to get America into WWII.
People with military minds nuclear bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
instantly evaporating tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children,
and then made up bogus stories to justify it.
They firebombed Dresden, a largely civilian city, which was housing tens
of thousands of innocent refugees who had escaped there for refuge.
They lied about the Gulf of Tonkin event in order to violently attack Vietnam
and slaughter millions of Vietnamese "communists".
When confronted with the deaths of HALF A MILLION children in Iraq
due to their egregious sanctions regime, Madelaine Albright just said
"we think the price is worth it", and most people didn't bat an eyelid.
They LIED and LIED about Iraq's non-existent WMD, when they well knew
that the war on Iraq was preplanned all along.
When confronted with the fact of 10,000 or more innocent civilian deaths
in Iraq after "shock and awe", it didn't even upset Rumsfeld and his ilk's
breakfast.
And you think these same sort of military minds could care less about
a few thousand people in New York and a few heavily insured buildings
if it allowed them to pursue their foreign policy agendas?
Grow up and join the real world. Or did you come down in the last shower
of rain?
Kind regards,
James.
Oh yes, here it is:
The 911 Coincidence Guide
At Last, A Cogent Response to Those Nutty 911 Conspiracy Theories
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/coincidence911guide15aug04.shtml http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html
Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
then would you mind explaining where the hell did those pools of molten steel that were found
weeks later 70 feet below ground were formed?
would you mind explaining what the hell happened with building 7?
why not the eyewitness reports of hearing explosions?
exploding furniture?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fire.htm
you mind explaining why the hell did the construction manager of the WTC complexes went on
record (before 9/11) to say that the buildings were designed to take a hit from a 707 possibly two? and
he went on to say that an airplane would effect the building like a pencil poking misquito
netting? (hardly any damage)
you mind explaining the alleged "inferno" that caused the "bending" could have allowed people to
be standing in the holes the planes made? Relatives of superman?
oh yeah why don't you look up the photographic evidence of the windows being blown out right
next to the building next to the WTCs........ it must have been the jet fuel traveling down the
elevator shafts that blew them out, right?
what about the fact that the steel beams were nicely cut like confetti? when looking at the site
with a birdseye view?
almost forgot, what bout the squibs that were made as the buildings were brought down???
last but not least what bout the reports of bush planning on attacking pipeghanistan in the
summer and spring of 01 that was in the foriegn press?
BBC, Janes information group, Times of India?
the Whore on Terror is a giant fraud to destroy the bedrock of what was the land of the free and
home of the brave.....
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
Indications of the Imminent Collapse
of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove
the "Controlled Explosions Theory"
Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition" "The World Trade Center towers showed
telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground,
scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday." There would not be telltale signs if it
was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.
"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an
inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m. "
What is clear is at least eight minutes before WTC 1 collapsed, the structure of the building was
failing. This simply would not be happening if explosives caused the collapse because explosives
don't go off in slow motion for eight minutes. Obviously, the way an actual controlled explosion
happens is the explosives all go off in a matter of seconds. There simply would not be warning signs
that the buildings were about to be demolished by explosives, it would of course just suddenly
happen. But that is not what happened, the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any
indications that they would. Instead, the fires were compromising the structural integrity of the buildings
and as the buildings' support structures failed, the exterior started to buckle and this bucking
was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "The NYPD aviation
unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator
Shyam Sunder said
at a presentation in midtown. " They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings
were bowing. "Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors
was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came
crashing down."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there
was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not
have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural
beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
See full article below. For Info on the collapse WTC 7, see Facts about 9/11.
We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies.
People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping
these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for
a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot
of people are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory, I also notice they don't talk about
ending the foreign policies. Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the
people.
False theories like "9/11 was a controlled demolition" or "9/11 was an inside job" or "The WTC
collapsed because of explosives" really f*** up efforts to stop the specific foreign policies that
put our nation at risk. These false theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign polcies
addressed, for example, U.S. support for Israel.
I suspect more than a few people pushing these false theories are very happy to misdirrect the
American public away from questioning specific foreign policies like U.S. support for Israel. (It
is the main policy of the foreign policies that motivated the 9/11 terrorists. The plotter of 9/11,
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, actaully went to school here in the U.S. He was angry at the U.S. not
because of his experiences here as a student, but rather because of the U.S. foreign policy favoring
Israel.) I am working hard to set the record straight and end the risk of terrorism. Please Click
on the Representative Press Logo and Donate to help me get the truth out. Those conspiracy websites
are clearly well funded and like I have said, they misdirrect the American public away from
questioning specific foreign polices like U.S. support for Israel. I need some money to work with to
undo the damage these websites are doing and get the facts to the people. 9/11 was not a game, these
conspiracy
theories undermine efforts to get the government to change the unjust Middle East policies: Full
article below: 9/11 cops saw collapse coming New York Daily News - June 19th, 2004 By PAUL
H.B. SHIN
The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes
before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.
In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an
inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.
But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty
communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of
Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes.
"The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the
buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown.
"[If] that information would have been communicated faster to all of the emergency responders in
the buildings, it could have helped save lives," he said.
Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the
critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.
The findings that emergency responders could have been warned about the imminent collapse angered
some victims' relatives, who were already fuming about the 9/11 Commission's report on Thursday
that government foulups contributed to the chaos on that fateful day.
"Eight to 10 minutes could have meant life for so many people," said Sally Regenhard, whose son,
Christian, was a probationary firefighter who died in the collapse.
"We had no integrated command structure, so that the Police Department was unable to communicate
the fact that the building was going to collapse to the Fire Department," she said. "It's a knife
in the heart of the relatives of the victims."
Other key findings include:
Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there
was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
If the twin towers had been fully occupied - 25,000 people - it would have taken four hours to
evacuate the buildings.
The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not
have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural
beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
- http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040619.html
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:07:08 -0500
From: "kitty285" <kitty285@charter.net>
Subject: 3rd. Plane
Why have i not heard someone say the 3rd plane went down because it was not
meant to hit the white house,just give that impression,just a thought.
Kitty
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 05:46:24 -0000
From: "livetrii" <acorn.ista@gmail.com>
Subject: 9/11 Truth & Moussaoui Trial in Alexandria?
Hi all,
Have folks thought about organizing a 9/11 Truth campaign
in Alexandria, VA, to latch onto the media & civilian attention to the
Moussaoui sentencing trial?
Trial Tests Courthouse's Neighbors
Moussaoui Case a Big Presence In a Dense Area of Alexandria
By Jerry Markon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 2, 2006; Page VA12
As Zacarias Moussaoui was thrown out of a federal courtroom in
Alexandria one recent Monday, police blocked off streets surrounding
the courthouse that will host his long-awaited death-penalty trial.
Just outside the blockade zone, traffic crept along in single lines. A
bevy of television trucks sat along Eisenhower Avenue, part of the
worldwide media contingent covering the highly publicized case.
The federal courthouse itself resembled an armed camp. Snipers
patrolled nearby roofs, while bomb-sniffing dogs inspected bags. The
signs of gridlock mixed with the sounds of construction emanating from
a neighborhood undergoing heavy development.
It was the beginning of jury selection in the penalty trial of
Moussaoui, the only person convicted in an American courtroom on
charges stemming from the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Moussaoui, 37, pleaded guilty in April to conspiring with al-Qaeda and
said Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda's leader, had instructed him to fly an
airplane into the White House. He denied being part of the events of
Sept. 11.
An anonymous jury, amid extraordinary security, will hear opening
statements Monday and ultimately will decide whether Moussaoui lives
or dies. The trial is expected to last one to three months.
Moussaoui's antics have enlivened a case that centers on the most
serious of crimes: the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
He has erupted repeatedly in court and filed jailhouse motions
taunting prosecutors and the judge. He was ejected four times on the
first day of jury selection for disavowing his attorneys and calling
his trial a circus.
But the case has been no laughing matter for residents of the densely
packed neighborhood surrounding the federal courthouse. Ever since
Moussaoui was charged in December 2001, some residents -- especially
at the Carlyle Towers condominium complex across the street -- have
expressed concerns about the trial. They worried about being able to
take a simple walk to the store amid the media onslaught, along with
the possibility of terrorist reprisals against their neighborhood.
With the passage of time, residents said recently, those fears have
quieted.
"For us, at this point, it's a big nonevent. We're just sort of
shrugging our shoulders," said Kim Uttenweiler, a Carlyle Towers resident.
For security and logistical reasons, authorities are closing four
nearby streets from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on days when the trial is held.
They are Courthouse Square; Jamieson Avenue from Englehardt Lane to
Mill Road; Elizabeth Lane from the guard post to Courthouse Square,
and Ballenger Avenue from the construction site to Courthouse Square.
The trial will run Mondays through Thursdays, with an occasional
Friday session.
For Uttenweiler, what's most important is that Carlyle residents can
"sneak in" a side entrance and avoid the main entrances on Jamieson.
"As with everything, when you get a little further away, you realize
maybe your worries were a little over-the-top and there's not a whole
lot you can do except to go on," she said.
Carlyle resident Bill Harvey attributed much of the earlier concern to
the tumultuous atmosphere in the days after Sept. 11, 2001. He said
the Moussaoui case itself seemed more important then, pointing out
that since Moussaoui was first charged, a number of top al-Qaeda
leaders, including former operations chief Khalid Sheik Mohammed, have
been captured.
"We have found out about a lot of other people who are probably a lot
more dangerous than Moussaoui," Harvey said. "He's not the big Kahuna
anymore. He was just kind of first in line."
"I don't think folks are expecting the trial to be so bad," Harvey
added. "I think there was a lot of overreaction on everyone's part."
A recent stroll through the neighborhood, however, revealed some
lingering concerns.
The area around the courthouse has been transformed in recent years
into a bustling commercial center, filled with new businesses and the
sounds of construction equipment. Since the U.S. Patent and Trademark
Office and its 7,100 employees finished moving into its new complex
down the street last year, traffic has become steadily worse. It can
sometimes take 20 to 25 minutes to drive from the courthouse area to
Old Town during rush hour, depending on the weather.
Across the street from the courthouse, a new Westin hotel and 79
condominium units are rising. Also under construction or about to
start construction, city officials say, are a Marriott hotel at the
intersection of Mill Road and Jamieson; two small office buildings
with street-level retail space on Jamieson in front of the Patent
Office; an office building with a parking garage behind the
courthouse, and two condominium towers at the intersection of Mill
Road and Eisenhower Avenue.
On Jamieson, Jane Mo recently opened the Cafe Gallery Market, a coffee
bar and gourmet market that serves cappuccino and grilled panini. Mo
said the trial has brought more business. But she said she feels "it's
a little dangerous."
"You never know who is a terrorist," Mo said.
Down the street, at the PTO Coffee House, a cashier said customers
were complaining on the first day of jury selection about the lack of
parking in the area. "Everyone thinks it's going to be a problem,"
said the cashier, who declined to give her name. "People had a hard
time getting down the street."
Those are the kinds of problems residents expected back in December
2001 when Moussaoui was indicted on charges of conspiring with
al-Qaeda in the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
In the 1990s, most major terrorism trials had been in New York. But
the Justice Department decided to bring the Moussaoui case to
Alexandria, in part because Northern Virginia's jury pool is viewed as
more conservative than New York's and because the Richmond-based U.S.
Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit is considered the nation's most
conservative appellate court.
The growing affinity for Alexandria soon led to a second high-profile
terrorism case being brought here: the prosecution of John Walker
Lindh, a Californian accused of fighting for the Taliban in
Afghanistan. At one point, the city faced the prospect of both trials
being scheduled to start within days of each other in the fall of 2002.
Officials increased security around the courthouse. Jersey barriers
were erected around the guard booths, hydraulic traffic barriers were
implanted and parking on nearby streets was nearly eliminated.
In June 2002, the Alexandria City Council voted to install as many as
17 trailers near the courthouse to accommodate the hundreds of
journalists expected to cover the trials. The cluster of trailers, on
a grassy 1.2-acre lot in front of the courthouse, was to include ports
for laptop computers, telephones, restrooms and a concession stand.
In July 2002, workers began removing sod from the field in preparation
for installing the trailers. By that time, Lindh had short-circuited
his trial by pleading guilty.
Then, the Moussaoui case went into a legal deep freeze, delayed for
more than three years by complications that included a heated debate
over whether Moussaoui would have access to top al-Qaeda detainees in
U.S. custody.
In the spring of 2004, the media center site was purchased by the
company now erecting the Westin Hotel.
City officials defend the earlier preparations and say that no one
overreacted. "We were very concerned about any inconvenience these
trials would cause the citizens, particularly of Carlyle Towers," said
Steven Mason, a city spokesman. "We always err on the side of, if
nothing else, being totally prepared. These security measures are
necessary to ensure the safety of the public."
City and federal officials have been preparing intensively in recent
months as well. Mason said representatives of the city and the major
television networks held a brainstorming meeting to figure out where
TV satellite trucks would be parked in the absence of a media center.
Eisenhower Avenue was chosen as the least disruptive spot.
The city also met with officials from Regent Partners LLC, the
Atlanta-based company building the Westin, to coordinate when the
construction site should receive its deliveries of building materials.
"It's been very cooperative," said Jim Feldman, a Regent Partners
senior vice president. "There's been a lot of planning and discussing
and talking."
As for the road closures, Alexandria Police Department representatives
recently met with property managers in the area near the courthouse to
make sure the word gets out. "I send them periodic e-mails to let them
know that this day changed, that day changed, what road closure will
be at what time," said Capt. Tim Dickinson, commander of the police
department's special operations division.
"That's the balance you need in these kinds of cases; the need for
security, but you have to balance that against the need to let people
conduct their everyday lives," he said.
Despite the preparations, city officials are urging motorists to stay
away from the courthouse area on days when the trial is in session.
"Obviously, traffic is already very congested," Mason said. "We have
publicized, gotten the word out as best we can. But traffic is going
to be an issue.''
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:25:09 -0800
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: 3rd. Plane
You mean the 4th plane? And there were 5 confirmed �boogies� as the Colonel
of the Norad Air Force base called them, including the first one that hit
the WTC, when he was interviewed between the 2 plane hits on the WTC towers.
I never have heard a �plausible� explanation for what happed to that one,
but then again, the film clips of his interview were �National Security� by
Noon Pacific time. I bet National Security, he stated he was told to stand
down, ground and not arm anything he had and it was his base that was
responsible for the protection of Wash DC and NYC.
-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of kitty285
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:07 PM
To: 911TruthAction
Subject: [911TruthAction] 3rd. Plane
Why have i not heard someone say the 3rd plane went down because it was not
meant to hit the white house,just give that impression,just a thought.
Kitty
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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:59:04 -0000
From: "Tom" <Tom@RepresentativePress.org>
Subject: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
>
> But if 9/11 wasn't an inside job, please answer these questions for me:
wait a minute. can you at least make an attempt to address the facts I
presented? What I showed you was that it could not be a "controlled
explosion" and I showed you how the bowing of the exterior steel was
evident at least 8 minutes before the collapse.
I just looked at the 9/11 Report and there were at least 3 police
helicopters circling the WTC. Police in the helicopters observed and
reported at the time the bowing and you can see in close up photos
what they saw: wtc.nist.gov/WTC_Conf_Sep13-15/session6/6McAllister.pdf
In that report you can actually see photos of a floor within the WTC
and in another photo later in the timeline the floor's sagging has
clearly progressed. The building's structure was failing. You simply
would not have this bowing and sagging if it was a "controlled
explosion" Come on guy, stop hanging on illogically to a theory that I
am taking the time to point out is plain wrong. The "controlled
explosion" theory has been debunked.
http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/ExplosivesDebunked.html
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2006/03/indications-of-imminent-collapse-of.html
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:59:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Legere <sledger911@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Isn�t Everybody Sick & Tired of the 911 Conspiracy Freaks?
That was F R I G G I N ... M O N E Y !!!!!
I'm gonna print that up as a flier!
Scott Ledger
michelsfbrian <michelsfbrian@yahoo.com> wrote:
Isn't Everybody Sick & Tired of the 911 Conspiracy Freaks?
Is it me? Or are these 911 Conspiracy Freaks becoming intolerable
and, might I say, quite dangerous? Somebody please put an end to
their wild conspiracy theory. It's been nearly five years since the
deaths of thousands of innocent citizens; hard working citizens with
families and friends who've had their hearts torn apart by the
events of 911. Out of respect for the victims and for the safety of
our nation's future, I urge all of us to move forward from the rants
of the tin-foil hat brigade. It's a tough challenge. They are a
unified group sticking to their insane and impossible story like the
glue under their nose which they're probably sniffing. Okay, I
understand what a conspiracy is, two or more people planning a
subversive act; and we have conspiracy laws on the books because
they actually do happen all the time. Yeah, but these 911 freaks
want all of us to choose their conspiracy theory over another one.
Here are the two top conspiracy theories; I'll leave it up to all of
you rational minded individuals to make a decision. Either you join
the ranks of the freaks or you join the normal world of intelligence.
Conspiracy Theory #1 � On 911, nineteen disgruntled goat herders
from the other side of the world hidden in a dark cave plan and then
orchestrates the most devastating attack upon the most highly
budgeted and dominating, impenetrable defense system the world has
ever known, and succeeds with hardly any money and armed only with
razor blades; thus forcing that nation to alter its way of life more
so than from its previous World Wars and major military conflicts.
In effect, goat herders with razor blades were mightier than all
enemies combined from WWI; WWII; Korean War; Vietnam War; etc�
OR
Conspiracy Theory #2 � Some of the world's richest and most powerful
individuals with vast resources, top notch organizational abilities,
direct access to US military apparatus and the most experienced and
notorious clandestine operation units on the planet decide to
implement the 911 attack to stir up necessary support from the
American people in order to invade Middle Eastern countries and move
closer to their goal of absolute control of oil markets, creating
record shattering profits, establishing a long standing intimidation
stance in the region (permanent US military bases in the region) and
protection of oil resources and long term profits. Corporate
hegemony or better known as Benito Mussolini put it, fascism.
The 911 Truth Movement is alive and growing fast. For those not in
the know yet, come back to reality and join the hundreds of
thousands of concerned citizens who desire justice and a safer
future for our children. Get informed with the facts. Freedomtown is
a great place to start. Check it out, and then ask yourself, in
light of all the information, what really happened on 911? Are you
interested in finding out more? The most accessible and rational
voice in the 911 Truth Movement is David Ray Griffin. His books are
highly recommended; The New Pearl Harbor; and The 911 Commission
Report, Omissions and Distortions.
(By no means am I insinuating that goat herders as a whole are an
evil bunch.)
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:27:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Cait" <ansith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
Ok. I'll take a stab at this one.
Point 1) You state - "I just looked at the 9/11 Report and there were at
least 3 police helicopters circling the WTC."
If you look very closely at the videos, before the collapse of each tower,
as the helicopters in question circle the tops of the buildings there are
mysterious flashes coming from the helicopters. That alone is cause for
significant alarm. Secondly, we do not know who was piloting these
helicopters for certain and the word of any "official" is to be suspect.
Point 2) You state "In that report you can actually see photos of a floor
within the WTC
and in another photo later in the timeline the floor's sagging has clearly
progressed"
Seriously, spend some time researching the structure of the WTC Buildings.
The way they were built with their 47 core columns completely prevents the
idea of a "pancake collapse" from happening. Even if the floors sagged and
ultimately fell onto the floor beneath it, the core would not and could not
have "pancaked" along with it. It's physically impossible.
Point 3) You state - "The building's structure was failing."
No, it wasn't.
Point 4) You state - "Come on guy, stop hanging on illogically to a theory
that I
am taking the time to point out is plain wrong. The "controlled explosion"
theory has been debunked."
I haven't seen any evidence that has made me change my mind. You only offer
suspect testimony saying they saw bowing and sagging. That does not account
for the complete collapse of both towers. You also fail to take into
consideration the FAR more numerous eye-witness accounts (from firefighters,
police officers and others on the ground and in the buildings) of subsequent
explosions far below the impact zone in both towers. If you watch the videos
of the towers collapsing you will see this for yourself. There are MANY
squibs" visible in both towers 20-30 stories BELOW the collapse zone.
Explain that? There is only one explanation, like it or not, those towers
were demolished.
Let me make this case really clear for you.
WTC 7.
The building collapsed many hours after the twin towers. This building was
not damaged by a plain, nothing fell on top of this building, and it had
mysterious small fires burning in the lower floors.
Larry Silverstein (the lease holder for the WTC complex) said himself that
he and the fire department decided to "PULL IT" (meaning demolish the
building with a controlled demolition.) HE stated that himself!! That is not
conjecture, HE SAID IT.
And then we see the building collapse into a nice little pile of rubble.
Squibs are evident in the videos, the free-fall speed of the collapse (all
of the collapses) also prove this point further.
Now, let me ask you to consider this.
Controlled demolitions take WEEKS if not months to plan. (Ask the experts
yourself, there are many websites where you can discuss controlled
demolitions) You're telling me that a fire department - FIRE DEPARTMENT NOT
a demolition crew - goes into a burning building, sets the proper explosives
in the proper places within an hour of making the decision to "pull" the
building and executes a perfectly controlled demolition? Impossible.
Thus, the charges had to have been in place prior to 9/11. If they could
have wired up that building, why is it such a stretch of your imagination to
consider that they wired up the other towers as well?
Also, how do YOU explain the molten steel in the basements of WTC 1, 2 and
7? Jet fuel and office furniture do not melt steel. Where did that come
from?
Also, how do YOU explain that EVERYTHING within the towers was reduced to a
fine powder? If it was merely structural failure that brought the buildings
down, the concrete, office furniture, elevators, etc... would not have been
pulverized to nothing. How did that happen? Where are the crushed desks and
computers.. where are the large slabs of concrete that pancaked so nicely?
There was absolutely NOTHING left. Where did it go??
Let us not forget that one of the principals of Securacom (the company that
had the security contract for 9/11 that interestingly enough expired on
9/11/01) was none other than George W Bush's little brother.
Let us not forget the eye witness accounts from security guards and workers
in the towers that all state mysterious and unusual power downs and fire
drills in the weeks preceeding 9/11.
Let us not forget that bomb-sniffing dogs, who are normally "on staff" in
the towers were removed from the building shortly before 9/11. (Why? Maybe
because there were BOMBS placed in the buildings???)
Let us not forget the eyewitness testimony of a WTC janitor who was in the
first sub-basement of one of the towers who heard SEVERAL large explosions
before and after the impact of the plane.
I could go on and on and on with this. Tom, you havent shown anything. You
haven't even begun to answer the points I've made above. A few "police"
reports from mysterious flash-producing helicopters does NOT even remotely
refute the controlled demolition EVIDENCE. (Not theory, mind you.. EVIDENCE)
Anyway.. I'm done for now.
Cheers.
Cait
-------Original Message-------
From: Tom
Date: 03/03/06 04:59:50
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled
Demolition"
>
> But if 9/11 wasn't an inside job, please answer these questions for me:
wait a minute. can you at least make an attempt to address the facts I
presented? What I showed you was that it could not be a "controlled
explosion" and I showed you how the bowing of the exterior steel was evident
at least 8 minutes before the collapse.
I just looked at the 9/11 Report and there were at least 3 police
helicopters circling the WTC. Police in the helicopters observed and
reported at the time the bowing and you can see in close up photos
what they saw: wtc.nist.gov/WTC_Conf_Sep13-15/session6/6McAllister.pdf
In that report you can actually see photos of a floor within the WTC
and in another photo later in the timeline the floor's sagging has
clearly progressed. The building's structure was failing. You simply
would not have this bowing and sagging if it was a "controlled
explosion" Come on guy, stop hanging on illogically to a theory that I
am taking the time to point out is plain wrong. The "controlled
explosion" theory has been debunked.
http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/ExplosivesDebunked.html
http://representativepress.blogspot
com/2006/03/indications-of-imminent-collapse-of.html
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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Legere <sledger911@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks "Controlled Demolition"
Tom
Since you chose to ignore ALL of Alan's Questions Just Like a person in denial would do. I'll add 1 more for you. Have you ever heard of a "Heat Sink" Simply put heat sinks are STEEL plates, designed to take a large amount of concentrated heat from a motor, machine, or simply ANYTHING that suffers excessive heat and slowly radiate the heat into the air, like a common RADIATOR. Well Tom, Heat Sinks are make from STEEL...because STEEL conducts heat wonderfully without suffering structural loss unlike copper great conductor but melts at much lower temps.
Now picture a Giant massive Heat SINK GRID of steel called... WTC...The worlds LARGEST HEAT SINK!!
EVEN if Jet fuel could burn at temps hot enough to melt STEEL...and it can't because it's a hydrocarbon. The Giant heat sink would simply transfer the heat into the massive heat sink( WTC FRAMING) and disperse the heat. That's why Steel Framed Sky Scrappers have never collapsed from Fire before or after 9/11. Your GAS STOVE perfectly mixes AIR and Fuel to Obtain maximum temps Blue Flame does Your stove melt when the Blue flame heats up the burner?
Ever watch a Construction worker cut steel with a torch? Even though He's burning Fuel. PERFECTLY mixed with ADDED oxygen... it STILL takes a while for the torch to cut... because the initial heat is being conducted and transferred down the STEEL in every direction. AWAY from the heat source.
90 % of the low burning hydrocarbon JET fuel burned up in the Initial Collisions and subsequent explosion into giant fire balls.YELLOW FLAME(Avg Heat) The smoke from the buildings was JET BLACK (bad Oxygen supply) And the fires Burn for 45 and 90 Min's Respectively.
Become a critical thinker and lose your fear of what the truth means Tom.
It's a VERY DEEP RABBIT HOLE
Scott Ledger
Tom <Tom@RepresentativePress.org> wrote:
>
> But if 9/11 wasn't an inside job, please answer these questions for me:
wait a minute. can you at least make an attempt to address the facts I
presented? What I showed you was that it could not be a "controlled
explosion" and I showed you how the bowing of the exterior steel was
evident at least 8 minutes before the collapse.
I just looked at the 9/11 Report and there were at least 3 police
helicopters circling the WTC. Police in the helicopters observed and
reported at the time the bowing and you can see in close up photos
what they saw: wtc.nist.gov/WTC_Conf_Sep13-15/session6/6McAllister.pdf
In that report you can actually see photos of a floor within the WTC
and in another photo later in the timeline the floor's sagging has
clearly progressed. The building's structure was failing. You simply
would not have this bowing and sagging if it was a "controlled
explosion" Come on guy, stop hanging on illogically to a theory that I
am taking the time to point out is plain wrong. The "controlled
explosion" theory has been debunked.
http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/ExplosivesDebunked.html
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2006/03/indications-of-imminent-collapse-of.html
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