Discussion about 09/11/2001: [911TruthAction] Digest Number 1113

Tuesday, February 07, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1113

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: Roland Croteau ....... typical COINTELPRO trash...
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
2. MSNBC poll on impeachment
From: "botalerts" <botalerts@yahoo.ca>
3. Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
4. BOOsch Junta Tightening Control
From: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
5. Ghost Troop & Captain May begin the "Target Texas City" Nuclear 911 Investigation
From: Eric May <captainmay@prodigy.net>
6. Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
7. Re: Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...
From: janet phelan <jcphelan10@yahoo.com>
8. Re: Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
9. Things not always as they might seem... Re: Truth Action Under Attack
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
10. Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States
From: "flanker12k" <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
11. Feb 20 in NYC Request
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
12. Re: Reichstag fires?
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
13. Response recvd: Dear Organizers, I want to be fair to you
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
14. Steel Industry FUMING
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
15. Re: Steel Industry FUMING
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
16. Re: Re: Hello
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
17. Re: VoxPop & Sander Hicks for 2/20?
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
18. Re: Re: Hello
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
19. Re: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
20. Re: Re: Hello
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
21. RE: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
22. RE: Reichstag fires?
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
23. sending a formal delegation from Scholars for 9/11 Truth to Silicon Valley
From: benjamin pritchard <ben@benjaminpritchard.name>
24. NewOrleans Mayor Nagin requests Aid from Foreign Countries Due To Lack
From: ranger116@webtv.net
25. CNN VIDEO: UN had foreknowledge of Beirut cartoon riot
From: Total Information <totalinfo@gmail.com>

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:51:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Roland Croteau ....... typical COINTELPRO trash...

this is a battle for the minds of the american public,

9/11 was designed to create a paradigm shift to legitimize the police state, we aim at reversing. we are not a bunch of typical "anti-war" activists who petition the very criminals who carried out such horrible acts against humanity............

we, are paradigm shattering activists!

Roland Croteau <rolandcro@earthlink.net> wrote:
To All,

I hope this finds you well and in good spirit.

To this post I must respond; so this is this groups idea of FREEDOM OF
SPEECH?

This woman doesn't like my position so I should therefore be banned?
What a typical bunch of wannabe hypocrites.

Should people like this woman ever come to power.., even God won't help
us.

You people ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH about 9-11. Question is; WHAT ARE YOU
GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? Petition the very people that are at the root of
this crime? And you don't SEE the insanity of that??

Indeed.., it is time for me to move along.

LLTF,
Roland

On Feb 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Lynn Ertell wrote:

Dear Moderators,

Please filter out this SPAM .
Here is a sample of what follows..
Clearly intended to waste our time ...

"...Â Â This is The End Time. They are as The Days of
Noah....WHERE are all the supposed God-fearing MEN? The
Great and Dreadful day is nigh at hand and NO ONE will escape what is
coming due. NO ONE."

.....

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, Roland Croteau <rolandcro@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Naveed,
>
> Good afternoon.
>
> I hope this finds you well and in good spirit.
>
> Respectfully I would argue.., it has ALL been theater. The entire
world
> has been duped. ESPECIALLY we [supposed] Amerikans. We were used [and
> ARE being used] as the "thrust". It is even on our script, fiat
> currency "money" given us by the NWOor elite. I am well aware of the
> [supposed] struggle to keep the federal reserve central banking
scheme
> out of this [supposed free] country.
>
> As I once read.., there is none worse off than the slave who
> BELIEVES/THINKS he is free. That is us [as a collective people]. I
hope
> you are aware you CANNOT own anything. All any of us get is the
> ILLUSION of "owning".
>
> If indeed we are TRULY "sovereigns"..? then WHY didn't the people
then
> stop the passing of the Federal Reserve Act [which I have completely
> read - YEARS ago], THEN?
>
> I submit, we were a spiritually spineless people then and are even
> worse today. MUCH worse. This is The End Time. They are as The Days
of
> Noah. People didn't listen then to the simple Truth and they aren't
now
> either. Choice. We are collectively choosing our own deaths.
>
> The time is coming SOON where ALL who would not listen [and who have
> flippantly and arrogantly rejected every warning.., including this
> warning about disregarding "THE PLAN"] will rue these days [of
> warning].
>
> I continue to ask..? WHERE are all the supposed God-fearing MEN? The
> Great and Dreadful day is nigh at hand and NO ONE will escape what is
> coming due. NO ONE.
>
> Most of the so-called "patriot community" has been given these
warnings
> over and over. I personally may not have hit them all.., but word
does
> travel. "Patriots", at large know who I am and my history and prefer
to
> label me a nut because I condemn their "revered CON-stitution".Â As I
> have said.., fair enough.
>
> I'll pop in and out of groups "fishing" to see if there any there who
> "have an ear to hear" and like me..? finally got tired of all the
talk.
> Doesn't look very good so far in this group. It will soon be time for
> me to move along and none of you will have to hear anymore from me.
>
> LLTF,
> Roland
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Naveed wrote:
>
> the other thing i'd like to throw into the mix roland is that america
> was strong because she resisted the inbred satanist central banksters
> move to prop up a central bank on the united states. they weren't
> successful in capturing america until 1913......
>
>
> janet phelan <jcphelan10@...> wrote:
> > lt should be obvious to all of us that the engine running the show
at
> > this time is operating off of a very dark force.Â There is no
> > religious system in the world that I am aware of that advocates
> > torture in the name of any deity.Â Not to mention the other
atrocities
> > being perpetrated across our beleaguered globe.Â Personally, I
think
> > it behooves us to be tolerant of those who interpret these events
in a
> > Biblical manner.Â Once again, we are attacking each other at the
very
> > time we need to come together.
> >Â
> > "Why can't we all just get along?"
> >Â
> > Peace,
> >Â
> > Janet
> >
> > greg nixon <nxngrg@...> wrote:
> >> Sorry,
> >>Â
> >> A secular Republic is what made America great. Theocracy is
another
> >> form of tyranny.
> >>
> >> Roland Croteau <rolandcro@...> wrote:
> >>> Hello Greg,
> >>>
> >>> I am the author of that post.
> >>>
> >>> Want to attack me? Why not do it head to head rather than as an
> >>> anonymous post?
> >>>
> >>> Having watched the NON-moving freedom movement [including this
one
> >>> aspect group{s} regarding the 9-11 issue] I could much more
easily
> >>> accuse you of the same thing. Why? Because people like you keep
> >>> promoting putting off the inevitable. And what is the
inevitable..?
> >>> look at American history and you MIGHT get a clue.
> >>>
> >>> But with that said..? consider yourself and this group as being
> >>> "noticed". You will not be able to say you weren't told.
> >>>
> >>> The solution is OBVIOUS; return to God's Laws - NOT the U.S.
> >>> CON-stitution.
> >>>
> >>> I believe you are not only a fool..? but a coward.
> >>> Roland
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 4, 2006, at 3:25 PM, Greg Nixon wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Totally,
> >>>
> >>>Â Â Attn: Mods Perhaps go to membership approval for a brief
period?
> >>>
> >>>Â Â Also ask Jolly to add more moderators (people we know) to
increase
> >>>Â Â the the ability to catch in the act.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Â Â --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Ertell"
> >>>Â Â <lynnertell@> wrote:
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â > The posting below (and the individual responsible) are
perfect
> >>>Â Â > examples of what needs to me moderated OUT of this group.
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â > Expect to be deluged with more of this kind of
pseudo-Biblical
> >>>Â Â > snake-oil "prophecy" and fake religious mumbo-jumbo.
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â > It's intended to muddy the waters, turn off and drive away
> >>> rational
> >>>Â Â > people and bog us down with a lot of crap.....
> >>>Â Â > Transparently obvious as COINTELPRO...
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>Â Â > --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, Roland Croteau
> >>> <rolandcro@>
> >>>Â Â > wrote:
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > Greetings,
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > I hope this finds all well and in good spirit.
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > As a serious student and activist for more than 25 years I
hope
> >>>Â Â I can
> >>>Â Â > > offer something of value to this group.
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > I believe anyone who has "done the work" knows the U.S.
> >>>Â Â government was,
> >>>Â Â > > at the very least, complicit in 9-11. And "we the sheople"
are
> >>>Â Â hoping
> >>>Â Â > > they will admit it publicly??
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > I see government as force and force is power. In all of
> >>> recorded
> >>>Â Â > > history I have NEVER seen force/power relinquish just by
> >>>Â Â > > asking/petitioning.
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > Does it make any sense that government will this time?
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > In my studied/activist opinion.., 9-11 is merely a part of
a
> >>>Â Â global
> >>>Â Â > > scheme to forward the global agenda of the elite to create
> >>>Â Â global
> >>>Â Â > > governance.
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > The links below offer information that ties it all
together and
> >>>Â Â then at
> >>>Â Â > > "THE PLAN" link, offers the ONLY solution out of this mess.
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > Of course you will need to decide for yourself. Should you
> >>>Â Â decide to do
> >>>Â Â > > the work/study.., I would NOT recommend "skip reading" for
each
> >>>Â Â > > sentence in each presentation builds/lays a foundation for
the
> >>>Â Â next,
> >>>Â Â > > offering fullest comprehension for the reader the first
time
> >>>Â Â through
> >>>Â Â > > [as it is recommended they be read more than once].
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > Regards,
> >>>Â Â > > Roland
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â > > http://thewayhomeorfacethefire.info
> >>>Â Â > > http://i.am/jah/plan.htm
> >>>Â Â > > http://360.yahoo.com/rolandcro
> >>>Â Â > >
> >>>Â Â >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> SPONSORED LINKS
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://thewayhomeorfacethefire.info
> >>> http://i.am/jah/plan.htm
> >>>
> >>
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> In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave,
> and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him,
for
> then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
> - Notebook, 1904
>
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>
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> http://i.am/jah/plan.htm
>

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:11:51 -0000
From: "botalerts" <botalerts@yahoo.ca>
Subject: MSNBC poll on impeachment

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=294402632&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:13:03 -0800 (PST)
From: alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States

Unbef***inglievable! We already have over a hundred completely empty large detention facilities dotted throughout the country with nothing but a skeletal maintenance crew on hand. And now KBR gets a contract to build EVEN MORE!
This means one of 2 things:
a) This is just a taxpayer rip-off scam to pay Halliburton for building "new" camps that were already secretly built years ago. or -
b) They're planning for a major martial law crackdown, even bigger than the one they were already prepared for.

Debi Clark <debiclark@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States
Submitted by rob on Wed, 2006-01-25 04:55.
By Business Editors
(c) 2006 Business Wire

ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2006--KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).
With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
"We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency operations support," said Bruce Stanski, executive vice president, KBR Government and Infrastructure. "We look forward to continuing the good work we have been doing to support our customer whenever and wherever we are needed."
The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
ICE is one of three agencies that make up the Border and Transportation Security (BTS) Directorate of the DHS. The mission of the BTS Directorate is to secure the nation's air, land and sea borders. ICE, the largest investigative arm of the DHS, is responsible for identifying and shutting down vulnerabilities in the nation's border, economic, transportation and infrastructure security.
KBR is a global engineering, construction, technology and services company. Whether designing an LNG facility, serving as a defense industry contractor, or providing small capital construction, KBR delivers world-class service and performance. KBR employs more than 60,000 people in 43 countries around the world.
Halliburton, founded in 1919, is one of the world's largest providers of products and services to the petroleum and energy industries. The company serves its customers with a broad range of products and services through its Energy Services Group and KBR. Visit the company's World Wide Web site at www.halliburton.com.

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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:26:23 -0500
From: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
Subject: BOOsch Junta Tightening Control

Forwarded with Compliments of Government of the USA in Exile (GUSAE):
Free Americans Resisting the Fourth Reich on Behalf of All Species.

From: ufka <ufkartfm@pacific.net>
Date: February 6, 2006 9:23:00 AM EST
To: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
Subject: NIST Defines Standards for Biometric Federal ID Cards

NIST Defines Standards for Biometric Federal ID Cards

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1918920,00.asp?
kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594

this article (imo) would be better if called what it is, "Bush and the
Ministers of Satan Initiate Mark of the Beast"

"In August 2004, the President issued Homeland Security Presidential
Directive 12 calling for a mandatory, government-wide personal
identification card that all federal departments and agencies will issue
to their employees and any contractors requiring access to federal
facilities and systems."

and here is an article titled, "Consumers Resist Retail Biometrics"

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1918162,00.asp

"Bolt said she didn't appreciate how emotionally intense some of the
opposition was until she visited a store and saw a 70-year-old woman
literally throw a Bible at an employee trying to enroll people in the
program.

"'She told him that God was going to rain hellfire on him and that he
was
promoting the devil's work,' Bolt said, adding that she took that to
mean the customer was not interested in enrolling."

[snip]

"The 70-year-old customer was reacting to the concern of some in the
religious community that RFID (radio-frequency identification) and
biometric programs are similar to a Bible story known as "the mark of
the beast." The story from Revelation speaks of limits to sales or
purchases "save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the
number of his name."

in conclusion, perhaps fundogelicals are starting to recognize they have
been deceived by ministers of satan?

luv ~@~

========================================================================
====================

From: ufka <ufkartfm@pacific.net>
Date: February 6, 2006 9:49:53 AM EST
To: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
Subject: Center for Digital Democracy - Network Neutrality

Hijacking the Internet:
How Big Cable and Phone Companies' Plans for Broadband Threaten
Democracy
By Jeff Chester

[A version of this essay appeared on the Nation.com website.]

http://www.democraticmedia.org/issues/JCnetneutrality.html

this article has been titled, "The End of the Internet"

luv ~@~

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=====================

From: ufka <ufkartfm@pacific.net>
Date: February 6, 2006 9:57:46 AM EST
To: "President, USA Exile Govt." <prez@usa-exile.org>
Subject: Net Freedom Now!

dear pine,

more nails in the coffin once known as internet:

Net Freedom Now!

What if …

AT&T and Verizon blocked you from viewing your favorite podcasts and
blogs?

BellSouth cut off your net phone because you weren’t using their
service?

Comcast forced you to download MP3s from their store while slowing
other music sites?

This threat is more real than you might think. Right now, the major
communications companies are planning to discriminate against the
online content and services that they don’t yet control.

Their executives are already on the record:

* AT&T’s Ed Whitacre wants consumers and content providers to pay
for use of his network. “The Internet can’t be free … for a Google
or Yahoo or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes free is
nuts.”

* BellSouth’s William Smith told reporters that he would like to
turn the Internet into a “pay-for-performance marketplace” where his
company could charge for the “right” to have certain services load
faster than others.

* Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg says that Web applications need to
“share the cost” of the broadband services already paid for by
consumers. “We need to pay for the pipe.”

They want to boost profits by playing gatekeeper to the applications
we use and the content we create. They want to give preferential
treatment to their own high-end services while blocking or slowing
access to everyone else’s.

STOP THEM NOW. Send your letter to the CEOs and Congress.

[continue reading at]:

http://www.netfreedomnow.org/

luv ~@~ (sigh)

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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:29:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric May <captainmay@prodigy.net>
Subject: Ghost Troop & Captain May begin the "Target Texas City" Nuclear 911 Investigation

Those who have been aware of the Ghost Troop interest and intervention in the matter of Texas City, where we predicted and have prevented an attempt to blow the place up, will be interested to hear my most recent briefing, given today: http://www.monksmedia.com/tvnews.php

Ghost Troop has been heavily engaged in this infowar campaign, at all levels, in all places. As usual, individual Ghost Troops show themselves to be personally brave, as in the case of Jon Watkins, a Texas City resident who made as much trouble -- and in as many official places -- as he could.

Today I have spoken with Heber Taylor, who is the editor of the Galveston County Daily News, which published the story on our "Target Texas City" scenario by its reporter, TJ Aulds: http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=f9c4071e30759dda. We spoke for around a quarter hour of shared acquaintances in the Houston media scene, and of the Ghost Troop public affairs campaign to explain just why it is that Texas City has so many major explosions, especially at British Petroleum, and why it is that Ghost Troop has such a good record of predicting them in advance.

Mr. Taylor has given me a link to the Daily News, which will own the TO line for these "Texas City Letters" that I'm writing now. He has assured me that a reporter familiar with security issues, Scott Williams, will contact me today to continue to investigate our Ghost Troop analysis.

Ghost Troop will continue to investigate and analyse the events associated with it's "1/31 Target Texas City" scenario, in accordance with its function as a unit on an official mission of conscience.

Best regards,

Captain Eric H. May, MI / PAO, USA
CO, Ghost Troop, 3/7 Cybercav+
Mission of Conscience / Patriots in Action

PS: Below is a brief exchange between me and a Ft. Hood captain that shows we're a topic of interest in military circles.

Eric May <captainmay@prodigy.net> wrote:
To: Randall Pendland <drrcpen@sbcglobal.net>
CC: ghosttroop@yahoogroups.ca
From: Eric May <captainmay@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:53:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ghosttroop] Re: Thanks (a brother officer offers encouragement)

Dear Captain Penland,

I am most gratified to read an email like yours coming from a brother officer, and believe that there is a significant increase in those of us who can see where things are leading. I believe our collective training as American Citizens and servants of the Constitution will overcome the attempt to subvert us, by high treason, into inviting high tyranny.

Please allow me to share your encouraging note with Ghost Troop, my most irregular group of cybercavalry, which has accompanied me down some very strange paths and with me discovered some very strange truths. We have blocked the attempt at the Nuclear 911 for the present, but I believe the Houston Metro area is still in the crosshairs for the event. After that, everywhere will come under the same heavy oppression of a contrived police/military state, the "Homeland" scenario greatly advnaced.

Again, my heartfelt thanks for your note. As you and I are both servants of the same national constitution, it is fitting that we should be making contact, honorable officer to honorable officer. My best regards, CPTMAY

PS: My initial complaint to the IG's office over the Battle of Baghdad Cover-up (BOBCUP) went through III Corps IG, and is now before the Ft. Stewart IG, DAIG and DAPA as well. Let's hope that the with time more and more comrades will wake up and join in to our cause.

Randall Pendland <drrcpen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Thanks for your great work at preparing the people with the truth. As an administration officer for III Corps and Ft. Hood, I understand the probabilities you have exposed. In fact, I understood the codes you mentioned before I heard you. I have visited the Ghost Troop site and listened to you.

I do not know how I can help you, but would like to try. Resources are short and my health is not the best; however, my duty to God and country never end. The least I will do is pray for you.

Thanks, Captain May.

Captain Pendland

<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Randall Pendland</STRONG>, ThD, DCPC-AC, PhD(s), MhT, NLP</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000ff size=4>CISM Certified</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Servant of the<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"> <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Lord Jesus Christ</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>

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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:39:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...

Lynn, JR,

I agree in your spirit of what you are saying. Time to be more defensive. We are the better-read ones. They are the ones less knowledgeable. But as far as technique? It is definitely different strokes.

I started to write my own version of ways to deliver the truth, sorta kinda like, 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.

But we each must find our own personal style to do this. From all that I can say, people respond better to me when I am compassionate and concerned vs angry and hostile to them. They are far more prone to listen to me when I care about them - and am worried that they have not gotten all the facts, worry that they have been reading the wrong sources of news, and am concerned that they are really truly out of the loop and are missing something extremely important - and urgent that they need to know about.

Most people like to feel that they are smart. So if you keep getting them to say yes?
Like, as in:

I can tell you are a sharp guy. I can tell you don't believe everything you see on tv, right? I can tell you know that the USA Today newspaper is a rag and they don't tell you all the truth, right? Well then you probably are also smart enough to know that there are a lot of things that are being pulled over on all of us, right? What do you mean you don't know? C'mon, you're smart. Certainly you don't believe everything you are told, right? Certainly you know that things are said from the oval office for an ultimate reason, right? Well you know they don't always tell us the truth, right? Like, you know about the Iraq War, right? C'mon, you have heard about the Downing Street Memo, right? You mean you don't remember about the yellowcake and Saddam and Al Qaeda and all those lies they made up to get us into Iran? Oh yeah, I thought you'd heard about that. So you know that they lied to get us into Iraq, then, right? Whew, I thought maybe you had missed something really
big. Well then you do know that they wanted to get into Iraq for the oil, right? Okay, good. Well then of course you know they wanted to get into Afghanistan before Iraq though, too, right? Well you do then know that they lied about going into Afghanistan then, too, right? You didn't know that. Oh. Well they did. Yeah. Just like with the Saddam thing... Only it was Bin Laden. He was on the US payroll for years. Yeah. I'm not making that up. I can't believe you didn't hear that?! They made him the enemy. I mean, you do know that there is no definititve proof that Bin Laden did 9/11, right? Oh, what proof have you seen? That's funny. I've been reading for years, and nope. No definitive proof. And then there's the hijackers - some of them are still alive. Yup, that's true. At least 7 are still alive, altho some reports say maybe as many as 9 out of 19. Yeah. And the fact that they couldn't fly small planes, I'm sure you heard that, right? Well the fact that they
can't even fly small planes means ....

Just a different way I go about talking about it.

Lynn Ertell <lynnertell@comcast.net> wrote:

I really agree with this.

Emphatically.
I want to see videos of the Towers and WTC7 bouncing up and down to
music ....
I don't give a damn about offending the "survivors" anymore.

Back during the Vietnam era, many sharp organizers realized they could
accelerate the process of education by striking use of satire and mockery.

It's a safe way to sublimiate our outrage at the moral imbecility of
the booboisie out there ... who all pretend to be so well-educated.

The scholars's manifesto makes us mainstream.
WE are the "mainstream" now.
Let's sound like it and act like it.

Yeah... I'm definitely down with the jolly rodger on this.

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, Jolly Roger
<slicingthroats@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone. I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may,
concerning talking to people about 9-11 Truth.
> I don't think we're the minority anymore. It seems that everyone I
talk to knows that 9-11 was an inside job now, or at least is able to
see a few flaws in the official story. Now, my perception of the
movement's success might have something to do with my local
demographics, and the fact that I've been working locally for years,
but I still think it's time 9-11 truthers in all areas considered a
new approach to the subject.
> Instead of supplying evidence trying to convince people that 9-11
was an inside job, it might be time to get on the offensive, and start
mocking people for being stupid and gullible enough to believe the
official story.
> You know you're right, and you can always supply the evidence to
back up your argument if need be, but by making fun of the media
believers, you might get them to look for the evidence rather than
meet with the resistence you will always get by trying to shove it in
their face.
> We've been called crack-pots, conspiracy theorists, lunatics,
wing-nuts, and traitors. Since we now have an army of PhD's who happen
to think we're right, isn't it time we started to fight back against
the dupes by calling them idiots, fools, suckers, and pawns?
> I've decided to submit a few "ice-breakers" that might help to
bring up the subject, and put the dupes on the defensive:
> 1. "Stupid bastards like you, who believe whatever they're told,
are the reason our new dictator is wiping his ass with the constitution."
> 2. "You're dumber than a bag of hammers if you think a gang of
cave men out-witted our air-force. Are you too stupid to know how a
radar screen works? Don't you think one or two of them might have been
pointed at the sky on 9-11, you buffoon?"
> 3. "I think the Brooklyn Bridge might be the next terrorist
target, so I'm going to let you have it for a hundred bucks."
> 4. "Thanks for being dumb as a rock. If you ever decide to pull
your head out of your ass, we might still save this country."
> 5. "Can I ask you to please grow a pair of balls, and then muster
up the courage to face the truth?"
> And for those of you who prefer sarcasm:
> 6. "If we only had radar screens and an air force, we might have
stopped those terrorist planes."
> 7. "I guess this really is the land of opportunity if the
president can make billions from a terrorist attack."
> 8. "I always knew we had to destroy the constitution to protect
our freedom."
> You get the idea. You don't have to defend the truth. It speaks
for itself. You're in the majority now, and acting as if you are will
also urge others to do the same. Many people won't express their
suspicions regarding 9-11 because they're afraid of being ridiculed.
We'll encourage the silent portion of the movement to be more vocal
when we act with the confidence of a winning team, instead of
constantly trying to defend ourselves. Just a thought.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his
hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>

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The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:46:23 -0800 (PST)
From: janet phelan <jcphelan10@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...

I like your style, Cathy.

Janet

Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com> wrote: Lynn, JR,

I agree in your spirit of what you are saying. Time to be more defensive. We are the better-read ones. They are the ones less knowledgeable. But as far as technique? It is definitely different strokes.

I started to write my own version of ways to deliver the truth, sorta kinda like, 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.

But we each must find our own personal style to do this. From all that I can say, people respond better to me when I am compassionate and concerned vs angry and hostile to them. They are far more prone to listen to me when I care about them - and am worried that they have not gotten all the facts, worry that they have been reading the wrong sources of news, and am concerned that they are really truly out of the loop and are missing something extremely important - and urgent that they need to know about.

Most people like to feel that they are smart. So if you keep getting them to say yes?
Like, as in:

I can tell you are a sharp guy. I can tell you don't believe everything you see on tv, right? I can tell you know that the USA Today newspaper is a rag and they don't tell you all the truth, right? Well then you probably are also smart enough to know that there are a lot of things that are being pulled over on all of us, right? What do you mean you don't know? C'mon, you're smart. Certainly you don't believe everything you are told, right? Certainly you know that things are said from the oval office for an ultimate reason, right? Well you know they don't always tell us the truth, right? Like, you know about the Iraq War, right? C'mon, you have heard about the Downing Street Memo, right? You mean you don't remember about the yellowcake and Saddam and Al Qaeda and all those lies they made up to get us into Iran? Oh yeah, I thought you'd heard about that. So you know that they lied to get us into Iraq, then, right? Whew, I thought maybe you had missed
something really big. Well then you do know that they wanted to get into Iraq for the oil, right? Okay, good. Well then of course you know they wanted to get into Afghanistan before Iraq though, too, right? Well you do then know that they lied about going into Afghanistan then, too, right? You didn't know that. Oh. Well they did. Yeah. Just like with the Saddam thing... Only it was Bin Laden. He was on the US payroll for years. Yeah. I'm not making that up. I can't believe you didn't hear that?! They made him the enemy. I mean, you do know that there is no definititve proof that Bin Laden did 9/11, right? Oh, what proof have you seen? That's funny. I've been reading for years, and nope. No definitive proof. And then there's the hijackers - some of them are still alive. Yup, that's true. At least 7 are still alive, altho some reports say maybe as many as 9 out of 19. Yeah. And the fact that they couldn't fly small planes, I'm sure you heard that,
right? Well the fact that they can't even fly small planes means ....

Just a different way I go about talking about it.

Lynn Ertell <lynnertell@comcast.net> wrote:

I really agree with this.

Emphatically.
I want to see videos of the Towers and WTC7 bouncing up and down to
music ....
I don't give a damn about offending the "survivors" anymore.

Back during the Vietnam era, many sharp organizers realized they could
accelerate the process of education by striking use of satire and mockery.

It's a safe way to sublimiate our outrage at the moral imbecility of
the booboisie out there ... who all pretend to be so well-educated.

The scholars's manifesto makes us mainstream.
WE are the "mainstream" now.
Let's sound like it and act like it.

Yeah... I'm definitely down with the jolly rodger on this.

The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:53:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Getting on the offensive .... getting into some attitude...

Thanks, Janet! But like I always say, different strokes! It's just that I tend to catch more bees with honey... And I try to think in my mind, Okay, this person may not be that swift, and they don't realize that they're in danger, and they think that they're smart but they're actually not all that sharp...

But a confession. This only works if you actually have compassion and do care about that person. If they are rude and mean and hateful? Why, then, I can not possibly pretend like I care when I don't. Just not that good an actress to feign like I shive a git when I don't.

But most people are not bad. And for the few who are? I honestly don't even waste my breath on them. Too many good people to talk with.

janet phelan <jcphelan10@yahoo.com> wrote:
I like your style, Cathy.

Janet

Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com> wrote: Lynn, JR,

I agree in your spirit of what you are saying. Time to be more defensive. We are the better-read ones. They are the ones less knowledgeable. But as far as technique? It is definitely different strokes.

I started to write my own version of ways to deliver the truth, sorta kinda like, 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.

But we each must find our own personal style to do this. From all that I can say, people respond better to me when I am compassionate and concerned vs angry and hostile to them. They are far more prone to listen to me when I care about them - and am worried that they have not gotten all the facts, worry that they have been reading the wrong sources of news, and am concerned that they are really truly out of the loop and are missing something extremely important - and urgent that they need to know about.

Most people like to feel that they are smart. So if you keep getting them to say yes?
Like, as in:

I can tell you are a sharp guy. I can tell you don't believe everything you see on tv, right? I can tell you know that the USA Today newspaper is a rag and they don't tell you all the truth, right? Well then you probably are also smart enough to know that there are a lot of things that are being pulled over on all of us, right? What do you mean you don't know? C'mon, you're smart. Certainly you don't believe everything you are told, right? Certainly you know that things are said from the oval office for an ultimate reason, right? Well you know they don't always tell us the truth, right? Like, you know about the Iraq War, right? C'mon, you have heard about the Downing Street Memo, right? You mean you don't remember about the yellowcake and Saddam and Al Qaeda and all those lies they made up to get us into Iran? Oh yeah, I thought you'd heard about that. So you know that they lied to get us into Iraq, then, right? Whew, I thought maybe you had missed something really
big. Well then you do know that they wanted to get into Iraq for the oil, right? Okay, good. Well then of course you know they wanted to get into Afghanistan before Iraq though, too, right? Well you do then know that they lied about going into Afghanistan then, too, right? You didn't know that. Oh. Well they did. Yeah. Just like with the Saddam thing... Only it was Bin Laden. He was on the US payroll for years. Yeah. I'm not making that up. I can't believe you didn't hear that?! They made him the enemy. I mean, you do know that there is no definititve proof that Bin Laden did 9/11, right? Oh, what proof have you seen? That's funny. I've been reading for years, and nope. No definitive proof. And then there's the hijackers - some of them are still alive. Yup, that's true. At least 7 are still alive, altho some reports say maybe as many as 9 out of 19. Yeah. And the fact that they couldn't fly small planes, I'm sure you heard that, right? Well the fact that they
can't even fly small planes means ....

Just a different way I go about talking about it.

Lynn Ertell <lynnertell@comcast.net> wrote:

I really agree with this.

Emphatically.
I want to see videos of the Towers and WTC7 bouncing up and down to
music ....
I don't give a damn about offending the "survivors" anymore.

Back during the Vietnam era, many sharp organizers realized they could
accelerate the process of education by striking use of satire and mockery.

It's a safe way to sublimiate our outrage at the moral imbecility of
the booboisie out there ... who all pretend to be so well-educated.

The scholars's manifesto makes us mainstream.
WE are the "mainstream" now.
Let's sound like it and act like it.

Yeah... I'm definitely down with the jolly rodger on this.

The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

---------------------------------
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PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

---------------------------------

The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:46:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Things not always as they might seem... Re: Truth Action Under Attack

Actually Miss Lynn is going to be with me addressing some folks tomorrow night... Please remember dear friends that all of us don't care to announce to our "minders" the kinds of things we've got goin' on, ya know? That's why I keep saying, take heart - there is more stuff goin' on that never gets posted to this group... but that doesn't mean it's not takin' place! :)

Cath

Kevin Hammond <sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Indeed! I read all these things but have to wonder just HOW ACTIVE Mr. Ertell is off of the internet.

Greg Nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com> wrote: Lynn,

Please grace more than the cyberworld with your most excellent
commentary. When I think of all the DRIVEL i read in rags like
In These Times, ZNet and the Progressive...your voice is needed.

ps. I think COINTLEPRO is very subtle,fronts like 9/11truth.org are
about being a safety valve and redirecting activism - the last thing
they want is a rally like 2/20 in NYC where one of the perps is
actually confronted.

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Ertell"
<lynnertell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Damn... that just sent a shiver down my spine ....
>
> Actually I also consider it important to observe, log, record and
> otherwise catalog discrete atttempts at diversion or disruption.
> We have to put these things under the micro-scope efficiently,
quickly
> and according to time-honored (often common-sense) principles of
good
> old classical scientific method.
>
> Because deliberate, engineered disinfo attacks also constitute
> "evidence" of a sort. Especially if we can track down the sources
> and determine them with a fair degree of certainty.
>
> Then we have practiced "counter-intelligence" ourselves; which is a
> big part of what military psy-op units do.
>
> When it comes to understanding COINTELPRO, we have to look
directly at
> the ideational CONTENT (and implied purpose) of the mis-
direction...
> rather than getting caught up in the personal lives of the poor
> manipulated prostitutes who are enabling or manufacturing the
disinfo.
> The people are only important, insofar as their funding and
> organizational affiliations might give shape to a network of
disinfo.
>
> Even that tactical layout of the forces involved is secondary.
> It's not about the individuals (whatever fake WEB handles they
might
> be using) so much.
>
> IT'S ABOUT THE CONTENT.
> It usually has an engineered purpose.
> We have to decipher disinfo and understand it to figure out where
they
> might be headed next (which fall-back position or limited hangout),
> and how they intend to sidetrack, slow-down, disrupt or mislead.
>
> At the same time, we don't want them disrupting ongoing activism,
> educational work and networking;
> by pre-occupying us with distractions.
>
> Often this comes down to adjudicating by the normal "rules of
> evidence" we all used to see referred to trivially in television
shows
> about lawyers, cops and robbers.
> It is flawed and easily subject to manipulation and distortion.
> But it's all we've really got.
>
> Evidence must RELEVANT.
> And it must be SUBSTANTIVE.
> Examination and cross-examination of evidence and testimony, then
> proceed to validate, discredit, or call into question the
reliability
> of the evidence ... so that a jury can draw reasonable inferences
and
> consider the case calmly, with deliberation and precision, so as to
> arrive at an imperfect but hopefully just decision.
>
> Actually, the OLDER the TV detective and lawyer shows, the more
> accurate is their presentation of simple rules of evidence.
> But you can see these rules of evidence in every place from the
> newspapers to Mickey Spillaine and Agatha Christie (Anglo-Saxon
common
> law) novels.
>
> Or just spend a few days sitting around in criminal court, watching
> how corrupt or incompetent the judges are; or how venal the
lawyers;
> or how malleable and easily-manipulated the juries are.
>
> That will teach you all about they myth verus the reality of 'due
> process" and the Rule of Law.
>
> The wilfull, deliberate and wanton suppression, export and/or
outright
> destruction, of so much critical 9/11 forensic evidence, itself,
is a
> file-cabinet of prosecutions: perjury, obstruction of justice.
> (security cam footage, steel from the WTC, whatever "black boxes" -
if
> any - might have existed, air traffic control tapes that were
ordered
> destroyed by a superviser)
>
> We have murder, fraud, RICO conspiracy, as one would typically
prepare
> an indictment and grounds for immediate arrest, confinement and
> interrogation of protected witnesses, and so forth.
> We have solid evidence to proceed in those cases, this very day...
> if we had the warrants and muscle to enforce them.
>
> These are dangerous criminals.
> An ongoing, massive criminal enterprise.
> We must make their arrests bigger issues than anything else.
> Bigger than "impeachment".
>
> It took the nation almost five years to arrest and indict Al
Capone;
> and he only ran a regional crime syndicate.
> They weren't even able to get him for the many hits he ordered, or
> committed himself.
> They had to get him on income-tax evasion !
> It was just a limited hangout in the end.
>
> Same thing with Charles Luciano in New York.
> They busted him and sent him to prison as a pimp (sex slave
trading);
> when they had plenty of evidence that could have sent him to the
> chair. Then later, they sprung him from jail and sub-contracted
him
> to run the post-war heroin tade from Sicily.
>
> They never really nailed Meyer Lansky,
> And his ambition has now been realized: a truly global crime
> syndicate; with its agents in the corporate boardrooms, the courts
and
> police stations, the miltary and intell. establishments
>
> Here again I refer to the sober and scholarly Morgan Reynolds as a
> good source for using 9/11 as a simple case study in criminal
> investigation, that steps us through the generarlly recognized
> standards for admitting and vaidating physical "evidence".
>
> These standards are fairly consistent from the Nuremberg
procedures,
> to the Hague and World Court, to our own version of due process and
> jury trials here in the US.
>
> By publicizing the provable solid evidence of 9/11 (and identifying
> the COINTELPRO trash), we validate and re-establish the importance
of
> due process and the Rule of Law in this country.
>
> What could be a nobler goal ... achievable or not ?
>
> In so doing, we test and redeems our HOPE (faith ?) in the rule of
law
> (as over and above the "Rule of Men").
> Which is supposed to be at the core of our traditions; though often
> honored more in our myths, than in the reality.
>
> So I believe Prof. Reynolds lays out the kind of formal case that
> would be tranlated into warrants for the arrest of the 9/11 perps,
> primary and secondary, along with a host of hostile or co-operative
> witnesses. Big job. Dirty job.
> Difficult, but not impossible; by any means.
>
> It will probably take some judicious application of force to
> re-establish the primacy of law here in the US;
> barring direct intervention from powers outside the country itself,
> hardly a pleasant or flattering prospect, but not one to be ruled
out
> either.
> If WE fail to reassert civilized control over this nation and its
> military assets; then others may see it as feasible to step into
the
> vaccuum, and enforce "law and order" themselves.
>
> We should never blind ourselves to the dangers that exist post-
9/11.
> A "rogue" state is, implicitly, an illegitimate state.
> And we know, from the standpoint of international treaty, law and
> taditionl exactly what that implies.
>
> Since the United States has used precisely that rationale, to
invade
> and occupy other states, since before the Mexican War of 1848.
>
> So, in the meantime, we must defend what makes us sane and
civilized,
> while proceeding to make the case for mass arrests and
prosecutions.
>
> The Rule of Law.
> Due Process.
> Rules of Evidence.
> Scientific Method.
>
> We are a civilized people with a history.
> There is nothing that happened on 9/11, that could not have been
> assuredly PREDICTED the day before.
> The biggest fraud of all, the cruelist hype, the most deadly
illusion;
> is the vain conceit that an engineered (state-sponsored) event like
> 9/11 was a "total surprise" to all of us.
>
> And that's because we have been dumbed-down by a corrupt and
> co-criminal corporate media; who also need to stand in the dock and
> answer for their role in this rape of our national identity amd
values.
> Because millions of Americans forgot all about complicated things
like
> Constitutions, Bills of Rights, lawyers and courts, and wars
fought in
> places that nobody cared much about anyway.
> Because millions of Americans shirked their responsibility to
function
> as thinking responsible adults, responsible for the future
survivial
> of their society, which is a craven and cowardly betrayal of the
future.
>
> We can't afford to argue about whether it might be "too late" or
not.
> We have to act as though that no longer matters.
> Because now it is more than just recovering our "national honor" in
> the world; it is about recovering and preserving our personal
honor.
> By which I mean our dignity and self-respect.
> Without which, the next generation of adults would hardly owe us
any
> respect or consideration at all.
>
> And recovering that responsibility, redeeming the coin
of "liberty",
> now means confronting criminal tyranny directly.
>
> And that means confronting it as a huge, global, criminal case.
> And making that case with sufficient detail, conviction and back-
up,
> so that we validate again the sacred principles of due process,
> justice under law, all equal before the law ...
> which made us a civilization in the first place.
>
> So 9/11 is like a Rosetta Stone to recover our sacred traditions of
> justice (an imperfect determination of "truth"); much as the
earlier
> assassination of JFK, or so many other of those historic tragedies,
> that reveal so painfully, how elite corruption has filtered down
and
> infected the subordinate layers of American soiciety, so that, in
the
> end ... all are compromised.
>
> All are corrupted by their silent acquiescence, or weak compliance
or
> active complicity in these outrages committed against the whole of
> civilization.
>
> Our only redemption is to proclaim far and wide the nature of these
> crimes; and the urgent and severe measures which must
unfortunately be
> employed to prevent the perpetrators from doing more; before they
> stupidly and psychotically get us all killed.
>
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, Cathy Garger
> <savorsuccesslady@> wrote:
> >
> > Good point, Ron. We've been under attack for some time now,
albeit
> very subtly. These guys are usually more subtle and clever. We
need
> to keep going and know that the more attention we receive, the more
> resources that have been allocated towards this group because we
are
> effective and are considered a threat to Empire.
> >
> > It's like a symbol of honor. And when someone is blatantly
trying
> to sabotage efforts? Moderators typically do just hit the Delete
key,
> so not to worry - the ones who are obvious typically don't last
too long.
> >
> > wakeupthetown <ronaldneil@> wrote:
> > "Clearly this group is being heavily bombarded with
distractive,
> > diversionary and off-the-wall postings intended to dilute,
debase and
> > degrade the level of discourse and reporting."
> >
> > When the enemies of freedom turn their guns on you, they see you
as a
> > threat. Consider that good news. The threshold has apparently
been
> > broken. Now, step up the pace and get them to duck.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > United state bankruptcy court western district of texas
> United state life insurance Moving to the united state United
> state patent United state patent search United states patent
office
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "911TruthAction" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 911TruthAction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The world can only be redeemed through action--movement --
motion.
> Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the
light.
> > Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:47:55 -0000
From: "flanker12k" <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States

One good thing is hell, i'll have lots of friends at the camps!

you guys!

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, alan random <alanrandom@...>
wrote:
>
> Unbef***inglievable! We already have over a hundred completely
empty large detention facilities dotted throughout the country with
nothing but a skeletal maintenance crew on hand. And now KBR gets a
contract to build EVEN MORE!
> This means one of 2 things:
> a) This is just a taxpayer rip-off scam to pay Halliburton for
building "new" camps that were already secretly built years ago. or -
> b) They're planning for a major martial law crackdown, even
bigger than the one they were already prepared for.
>
> Debi Clark <debiclark@...> wrote:
> Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In
The United States
> Submitted by rob on Wed, 2006-01-25 04:55.
> By Business Editors
> (c) 2006 Business Wire
>
> ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2006--KBR announced
today that the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR
an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency
contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR
is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton
(NYSE:HAL).
> With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year
term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year
options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the
previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
> "We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract because
it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of
emergency operations support," said Bruce Stanski, executive vice
president, KBR Government and Infrastructure. "We look forward to
continuing the good work we have been doing to support our customer
whenever and wherever we are needed."
> The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for
establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to
augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program
facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into
the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The
contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required,
initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics
support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more
expansion facilities.
> The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other
U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration
emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a
national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a
natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing
housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in
support of relief efforts.
> ICE is one of three agencies that make up the Border and
Transportation Security (BTS) Directorate of the DHS. The mission of
the BTS Directorate is to secure the nation's air, land and sea
borders. ICE, the largest investigative arm of the DHS, is
responsible for identifying and shutting down vulnerabilities in the
nation's border, economic, transportation and infrastructure
security.
> KBR is a global engineering, construction, technology and
services company. Whether designing an LNG facility, serving as a
defense industry contractor, or providing small capital
construction, KBR delivers world-class service and performance. KBR
employs more than 60,000 people in 43 countries around the world.
> Halliburton, founded in 1919, is one of the world's largest
providers of products and services to the petroleum and energy
industries. The company serves its customers with a broad range of
products and services through its Energy Services Group and KBR.
Visit the company's World Wide Web site at www.halliburton.com.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Israel palestine Israel Teen suicide Martha
stewart
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>
>
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subject=Unsubscribe
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:50:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Feb 20 in NYC Request

Dear NYC 9/11 truth organizers,

I was a bit disappointed to see that your latest newsletter didn't have anything about 2/20 in NYC. And someone on one of the lists mentioned that at a recent ny911truth meeting someone from your organization actually stood up and announced that the event had been cancelled. That was an untrue statement.

This is dismaying to say the least. If you want the truth to come out about 9/11, why would you not at least mention the event and say that it is not being run by your organization, but that you have been asked to announce it for those New Yorkers who might like to attend?

There may very well be a good explanation of which people are unaware. I would hate to think that someone from your group would purposely try not to support the efforts of a grassroots activist and his associates from doing something that will wake up a great number of people to the real truth.

Isn't that, after all, what it's all about?

Thank you very much in advance for doing what you can to promote the event.

Regards,

Cathy Garger
Maryland

The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:00:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reichstag fires?

Yes, Naveed, and reading that this "suspicion" is actually based in reality. Gosh ya know what? I was actually hoping against all hope that my instincts were not on target with this, but today I find out our instincts were right on with this. Geeeeez, it sure is hard to wrap one's brain around such pure evil.

Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote:
that's why i've been saying i SMELL a SETUP!

someone else brought up a point talking bout how if the EU was really about freedom of expression then why the hell do they have irving and zundel locked up behind bars for merely questioning certain historical events?

Gotta paint the ragheads as a bunch of savages......BOOOM and then it becomes a whole lot easier to mold public opinion against them....

Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com> wrote:
Could this by chance be a series of Reichstag-esque fires to add more fuel to the fire in order to make Syria the next evil radical "Islamic extremists"? (Syria is, after all, one of those evil-doers mentioned in the Commander In Chief's list of sworn terrorist enemies to watch out for).

Protesters also took to the streets in Afghanistan, the West Bank, Iraq and New Zealand, a day after demonstrators in Syria charged security barriers outside the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus and sent the buildings up in flames.

Those attacks earned widespread condemnation from European nations and the U.S., which accused the Syrian government of backing the protests.

A really curious sentence in the piece makes one wonder if somebody is trying to create "Evil Doing" enemies similar to what happened in our country right about dinner time on 9/11? Goodness, doesn't this sound familiar: Now there are forces that wants a confrontation between our cultures,”

We've got Iran and North Korea as the enemies next on our hit list, and perhaps this "Islamic extremist" rash of violent eruptions is to get us fully ready and primed to the fact that next stop - Syria - is not far behind.

At least this fits a predictable pattern. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10705393/

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---------------------------------
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:35:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Response recvd: Dear Organizers, I want to be fair to you

Thanks, Moondancermom! You had asked me to share the response from worldcantwait.org regarding why I could not find any reasons to go after the criminal regime in power, such as for their role in 9/11 and the use of Depleted Uranium (a WMD).

The response was that these two items are implicit in their call. That, to me, means that they agree that it should be included... but they did not do so. I don't know. To me, those are two of the biggies that need to be in there, like, uh on the FRONT page... Maybe others would like to write to them and suggest the same thing?

Out of fairness to the organization, here is their reply. Admittedly, while it is not the comprehensive list that I would have written... I do agree with the spirit of their effort. The Regime must go. So while I do not at all fault their efforts (I applaud them, actually) I just think that the actual specifics are important.

They do mention getting swallowed up by a horror... but yet they do not go into what horror that could be. We all know that if the perpetrators of 9/11 got away with it once? They will do so again. Particularly, even as they mention, they will not go out without a fight. And if it's another War ON America that it takes? Which one of us would doubt for a second that they would wage it?

Permission to forward.

Cathy

info@worldcantwait wrote:
Cathy

I think you may have neglected to read our Call, the wellspring of all our
activism. Here it is:

Your government, on the basis of outrageous lies, is waging a murderous
and utterly illegitimate war in Iraq, with other countries in their
sights.

Your government is openly torturing people, and justifying it.

Your government puts people in jail on the merest suspicion, refusing them
lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the
dead of night.

Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow
and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.

Your government suppresses the science that doesn't fit its religious,
political and economic agenda, forcing present and future generations to
pay a terrible price.

Your government is moving to deny women here, and all over the world, the
right to birth control and abortion.

Your government enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and
ignorance.

People look at all this and think of Hitler — and they are right to do so.
The Bush regime is setting out to radically remake society very quickly,
in a fascist way, and for generations to come. We must act now; the future
is in the balance.

Millions and millions are deeply disturbed and outraged by this. They
recognize the need for a vehicle to express this outrage, yet they cannot
find it; politics as usual cannot meet the enormity of the challenge, and
people sense this.

There is not going to be some magical "pendulum swing." People who steal
elections and believe they're on a "mission from God" will not go without
a fight.

There is not going to be some savior from the Democratic Party. This whole
idea of putting our hopes and energies into "leaders" who tell us to seek
common ground with fascists and religious fanatics is proving every day to
be a disaster, and actually serves to demobilize people.

But silence and paralysis are NOT acceptable. That which you will not
resist and mobilize to stop, you will learn — or be forced — to accept.
There is no escaping it: the whole disastrous course of this Bush regime
must be STOPPED. And we must take the responsibility to do it.

And there is a way. We are talking about something on a scale that can
really make a huge change in this country and in the world. We need more
than fighting Bush's outrages one at a time, constantly losing ground to
the whole onslaught. We must, and can, aim to create a political situation
where the Bush regime's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is
driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking
society is reversed. We, in our millions, must and can take responsibility
to change the course of history.

Acting in this way, we join with and give support and heart to people all
over the globe who so urgently need and want this regime to be stopped.

This will not be easy. If we speak the truth, they will try to silence us.
If we act, they will try to stop us. But we speak for the majority, here
and around the world, and as we get this going we are going to reach out
to the people who have been so badly fooled by Bush and we are NOT going
to stop.

The point is this: history is full of examples where people who had right
on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it
is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only
to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future
is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US.

The World Can't Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime!

The reason we have perhaps not mentioned the two specific crimes of the
Bush Gang to which you allude probably has more to do with an inability to
keep up with the daily avalanche of tyranny the Bush Regime produces than
neglect. Certainly those transgressions, like the rest including tax cuts
for the already filthy rich, $750 billion Pentagon budgets, cuts in social
welfare spending, fiscal irresponsibility better describe as catastrophe,
are implicit in our Call.

Are you connected with the World Can't Wait local chapter? Can you tell
me where you live so I can see if there's a chapter of World Can't Wait
with which I could hook you up? Or for more immediate information visit
our website at www.worldcantwait.org. Or consider forming your own
chapter.

How to Start Organizing

Get together with several friends, family members, co-workers, etc. who
share your passion to drive out the Bush regime. Take some time to go
through the website especially The Call, Debra Sweet’s Speech: State of
Emergency 4 Weeks to Make History, the plans for the next big step, and
the FAQ’s,. Organize discussions around the content that is brought up in
the Call.

Discuss the following at your meeting:

* Establish a time and place for weekly meetings. In addition make plans
for conference calls/check- ins since we are working in very limited time
frame. Make these meeting plans right away and send the info to
info@worldcantwait.org. In addition you should send in reports to tell us
how it went.

*Outreach to prominent individuals such as city council members,
professors/teachers, local writers, and other important individuals in
your community. You will want to talk to them about endorsing the Call,
giving a tax deductible donation, speaking at local World Can’t Wait
events such as drowning out the State of the Union Address on January
31st, and approaching other prominent individuals with whom they have
contact. Approach local groups such as a peace group to endorse the Call
and joining the movement by being a part of organizing for World Can’t
Wait (some ways they can get involved- financial contributions, posting
WCW events on their list serves and websites, allowing us to speak at
their events/have them speak at SOU demos, get them to help organize
transportation to D.C. for February 4th). Check out the report from
National Organizer’’s confrence
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=468&Itemid=145

* Fundraising. See the fundraising kit on the website-
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=436&Itemid=144.
E-mail fundraise@worlcantwait.org with your plans and questions.

* Youth and Student work. Please see the section of the website on youth
and students and email youth_students@worldcantwait.org

* Order Organizing Materials by e-mailing materials@worldcantwait.org. You
can also print organizing materials
outhttp://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=6&Itemid=6

* Media: Taking out ads in a local paper- see NY Times Ad for what it
would look like. Getting PSA’s played on local radio stations. Writing
letters to the editor. Calling in to radio stations and talking to DJ’s
about a movement that plans to drive out the Bush regime and our next big
step.

* Plans for the State of the Union, which takes place on January 31st.
What are you going to do to drown out Bush on the State of the Union
Address? Pick a location for your action ASAP and start making plans to
get people to go to DC on the following Saturday, start selling bus
tickets NOW. Send plans to info@worldcantwait.org

* Make concrete plans to go to places with lots of people and hand out the
Call and flyers for the SOU action. This might involve flyering cars in
church parking lots and handing out the Call and SOU action flyers to
people in a park or shopping center.

* Important events to hand out the Call/sell materials/SOU flyers:
cultural events such as concerts and speaking engagements.

Call the National Office toll free at (866) 973-4463. Tell the National
Office the outcome of the above discussions as well as some of your plans.
Be prepared to provide some information for the website like the time and
place of your weekly meetings and a public telephone number for your local
chapter (if you have one). Also please provide the main organizer’s name,
telephone number, email address, and home address. This information will
be kept private. Email addresses for other organizers can also be added
to the organizers list along with the main organizer.

If you have any questions or concerns please contact us.

Thank you,

WCW National Office

> Dear Organizers of World Can't Wait,
>
> I attended your event yesterday and first want to say thank you for all
> of your hard work and effort in putting on yesterday's rally and march
> in Washington, DC. Admittedly, it was cold and rainy but our spirits
> were high as we chanted Bush Step Down about four million times.
>
> Although it is now the day after and I nurse aching muscles I did not
> know I have, a throat that's hoarse from screaming, and I am *still,*
> all these hours later, chilled to the bone? Yesterday's camaraderie was
> chicken soup for this activist's soul.
>
> I am certainly of the opinion that Bush and Cheney need to be removed
> from office due to their numerous crimes against US citizens, as well
> for their plethora of international crimes committed against humanity.
> And while these two individuals are merely only the "icing on the cake"
> with regard to federally committed crimes? The men who are acting as
> imposters playing the roles of President and Vice President symbolize a
> great number of US crimes that have been committed in our name with the
> use of our hard-earned tax dollars.
>
> I am in total agreement that these two individuals must step down - or
> be removed from power effective immediately.
>
> I am curious, however, about one thing. I have checked your website and
> can not find a specific list of detailed reasons that explain why,
> exactly, you believe that the Bush Regime needs to be removed? I don't
> believe it's enough to simply chant about the removal of the ring
> leaders of the Empire and just leave it at that. In order to be
> effective, you need to state why you you are pushing for the removal of
> the figureheads of US Organized Crime, and do so in comprehensive
> fashion.
>
> While your ultimate message is good in sentiment and unquestionably
> on-target? It appears that you have unfortunately failed to list the
> crimes that the criminal cabal has committed (with apologies if I've
> missed such a list). Such substantiation, by necessity, needs to
> include at least two components, namely:
>
> (1) The fact that 9/11 was purposely engineered and orchestrated by the
> current Regime in power.
>
> (2) Condemnation for US violation of international law with the use of
> radioactive Depleted Uranium (by definition, a WMD) in Afghanistan and
> Iraq, under the current Regime's term of illegitimately held power.
>
> I would appreciate your mentioning why you have not named these (and
> other such heinous crimes committed by this administration) on your
> website. I should tell you that I am a freelance writer and am
> interested in writing an article about your group and your goals. And
> in all fairness to you, I must admit that I find it more than curious
> that you are not more specific with regard to exactly why you are asking
> the Regime to step down.
>
> Some would say that this is a "left gatekeeping" effort designed to
> purposely mislead those who oppose the Bush Regime into going on marches
> and believing they are doing something effective when, in reality, they
> are doing nothing of the kind. If this is not true, I would appreciate
> your input and receive evidence to the contrary. I would like to fairly
> present your explanation as to why you have not listed the crimes you
> believe were perpetrated by this administration right on your website,
> in plain view for all the world to read.
>
> If you would like to grant an interview in order to present your views
> on this point, I would be more than happy to speak with one of your
> representatives.
>
> Thank you very much in advance. I truly want to represent your
> organization in as fair and objective a light as possible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Cathy Garger
> Maryland
> savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com
>
>
> The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion.
> Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
> Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:48:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com>
Subject: Steel Industry FUMING

This MIGHT be a boon to 9/11 truth !!! Much Better to read at website (because some words are missing when I cut and pasted).

Here is link:

http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0271-24663_ITM

Post 9/11 Steel-Bashing Called Unfounded and Unfair
Steel-bashing, after jarring 9/11 experience, called unfounded and unfair

(enr.construction.com - 02/06/06)
By Nadine M. Post

Enlarge + Of the many horror stories born in New York City on 9/11, the one that belongs to Herbert Margrill serves as the genesis of an ongoing storm between boosters of structural concrete and structural steel. Although New York's building market has become the battleground, the tempest has spread beyond, fueled in part by articles and advertisements published in the business press. Charges of steel-bashing are flying and steel interests are fighting back. Even structural engineers are incensed over what they say are blatantly false claims by publicist Margrill that concrete framing is inherently safer than steel.

It all started on Sept. 11, 2001, when Margrill, now 81 years old, was knocked out of bed by the ear-drum-splitting sound wave produced by the hijacked plane that terrorists crashed into the 110-story One WTC. The industrial public relations and advertising veteran fled his home-office near Ground Zero and didn't return for three weeks. "To me, it was a numbing experience," he says.

In 2002, still-traumatized, Margrill decided to do his bit to help make the world safer. He called an old friend, Alfred G. Gerosa, a six-decade veteran of concrete construction, to discuss a plan. They decided "to educate people about the safety aspects of cast-in-place reinforced concrete so that terrible disasters don't happen again," says Margrill.

GEROSA By January 2003, the long-dormant Concrete Alliance, with Gerosa as president and Margrill as vice president of communications, was incorporated with safety as its new mission. Or more specifically, safety as it relates to concrete behavior in calamities, such as fires, terrorist acts, earthquakes, hurricanes and floods.
The promotional group is supported by New York City-area concrete contractors and construction unions. This fall, the alliance plans to launch an initiative that would offer a "safety seal of approval" to owners of concrete-framed buildings, which they could use for marketing purposes.

In the group's marketing brochure, Gerosa says, "Concrete is the best material to use for safety, blast resistance, durability, flexibility....A cast-in-place, reinforced concrete structure is safer than any other commercial building type." He adds: "Structural steel is fine. We don't object to a steel structure if it is fireproofed properly," with cast-in-place concrete.
Enlarge + But the alliance lacks any scientific evidence, research or statistics to substantiate its claims that concrete is safer than steel. "It's our educated opinion, based on over 50 years of experience," says Gerosa.

Structural engineers say alliance claims are not only without merit, they are out of bounds. "Their assertion that concrete structures are safer than steel is based not on facts but on their greed to build concrete structures...," says Clifford Schwinger, quality assurance manager with Cagley Harman & Associates Inc., King of Prussia, Pa. "That they are trying to profit from the 9/11 tragedy by claiming concrete construction is safer is worse than obscene."

The alliance now is pushing concrete office towers, a building type long dominated in New York City by structural steel. "Before 9/11, we pretty much felt concrete itself was not practical for commercial highrises...," says Gerosa.
OAS_AD('Middle'); The alliance has infuriated steel interests. The American Institute of Steel Construction Inc., Chicago, calls the group's "steel-bashing" tactics, "negative and unprofessional." AISC maintains that concrete does not offer better fire resistance, blast resistance or structural robustness. "These are all characteristics of well-designed buildings, which can be provided in buildings of any material," says Charles J. Carter, AISC chief structural engineer. "But our work on fire, blast, progressive collapse and related topics," continuing with various publications and design guides, "began well before the events of Sept. 11, 2001," he adds.

Structural engineers who work with both concrete and steel systems agree. David Scott, the new chairman of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat and a principal in the New York City office of Arup, calls the alliance's message about fire, nonsense. "What the building community has learned...is that tall office buildings that have no sprinklers and no fire protection on columns will not perform well in a fire," he says.

Even veteran concrete promoters are distancing themselves from the alliance. George Barney, senior vice president for market development and technical services at Portland Cement Association, Skokie, Ill., says: "PCA's 90-year reputation is built on technical excellence and integrity. That's our culture. We do not indulge in negative promotional tactics, nor do we disparage competing materials."

Best of Both. Convention center has steel roof and concrete framing below. The alliance's message "is a source of confusion," says Michael Mota, PCA's New York regional structural engineer. "There's a place for both materials."

The alliance began fomenting the brouhaha as far back as April 2004, when Margrill sent out a press release via e-mail promoting a New York City Concrete Promotional Council seminar, on 505 Fifth Avenue. The building was touted as the first concrete commercial highrise in New York City—one initially designed in steel. "New York skyscrapers used to be built of steel," said the release. "Not anymore!

From now on, cast-in-place reinforced concrete will be the material of choice in the Big Apple."

The claim was spurious. There are at least seven structural steel or hybrid (steel and concrete) office towers recently completed, under way, out for bid or in planning in New York City, reports AISC.

Still, the message was repeated in various industry publications, taking the local debate national. "It is critical that owners, architects, structural engineers, and developers make informed decisions based on accurate information, not misrepresentations spread by representatives of competing systems," replied AISC's then-president, H. Louis Gurthet.

The straw that broke the camel's back for AISC was the alliance's marketing blitz after a recent highrise fire in Madrid. The campaign included a full-page magazine ad. It began: "A demonstration of cast-in-place reinforced concrete over steel construction was the recent fire at Madrid's Windsor Tower."

Scott Melnick, AISC's vice president of communications and editor and publisher of AISC's Modern Steel Construction, shot back with an editorial: "Their latest fairy tale tells the story of the Windsor Tower in Madrid and how it was consumed by a fire that raged for 36 hours. In their story, they report how the building had a concrete frame below the 21st floor and it remained intact, while the building's steel frame from floors 22 to 30 collapsed. There are just a few problems with this story, however. The steel in the building was simply an unprotected steel perimeter framing system primarily supporting the cladding. Second, both the unprotected perimeter framing system and the concrete beams and columns experienced a similar collapse...."To further dispel such stories, AISC's Carter notes a survey of fire-induced collapses in buildings worldwide, performed for the National Institute of Standards and Technology. "The majority of buildings that suffered fire-induced collapse were
in fact reinforced concrete," he says.

The alliance's push for concrete cores is self-serving at best, he adds. If society prioritizes hardening of cores, it can be done with steel frames with masonry infill, concrete shear walls or steel plate shear walls.

Choice of framing is not about safety, say designers. "You can provide adequate safety using either material, following a proper design and performance standard," says Ahmad Rahimian, president of WSP Cantor Seinuk, New York City.
And for many projects, such as convention centers, stadiums, airports and skyscrapers, the solution is often a hybrid system. "The question is not whether the building should be in concrete or steel but how to use the two most effectively," says Rahimian.

http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0271-24663_ITM

• • • • •

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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:15:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Steel Industry FUMING

we gotta foment these guys into action!

like stir up their sense of patriotism

of HOW dare you knock on american steel!?

Cathy Garger <savorsuccesslady@yahoo.com> wrote:
This MIGHT be a boon to 9/11 truth !!! Much Better to read at website (because some words are missing when I cut and pasted).

Here is link:

http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0271-24663_ITM

Post 9/11 Steel-Bashing Called Unfounded and Unfair
Steel-bashing, after jarring 9/11 experience, called unfounded and unfair

(enr.construction.com - 02/06/06)
By Nadine M. Post

Enlarge + Of the many horror stories born in New York City on 9/11, the one that belongs to Herbert Margrill serves as the genesis of an ongoing storm between boosters of structural concrete and structural steel. Although New York's building market has become the battleground, the tempest has spread beyond, fueled in part by articles and advertisements published in the business press. Charges of steel-bashing are flying and steel interests are fighting back. Even structural engineers are incensed over what they say are blatantly false claims by publicist Margrill that concrete framing is inherently safer than steel.

It all started on Sept. 11, 2001, when Margrill, now 81 years old, was knocked out of bed by the ear-drum-splitting sound wave produced by the hijacked plane that terrorists crashed into the 110-story One WTC. The industrial public relations and advertising veteran fled his home-office near Ground Zero and didn't return for three weeks. "To me, it was a numbing experience," he says.

In 2002, still-traumatized, Margrill decided to do his bit to help make the world safer. He called an old friend, Alfred G. Gerosa, a six-decade veteran of concrete construction, to discuss a plan. They decided "to educate people about the safety aspects of cast-in-place reinforced concrete so that terrible disasters don't happen again," says Margrill.

GEROSA By January 2003, the long-dormant Concrete Alliance, with Gerosa as president and Margrill as vice president of communications, was incorporated with safety as its new mission. Or more specifically, safety as it relates to concrete behavior in calamities, such as fires, terrorist acts, earthquakes, hurricanes and floods.
The promotional group is supported by New York City-area concrete contractors and construction unions. This fall, the alliance plans to launch an initiative that would offer a "safety seal of approval" to owners of concrete-framed buildings, which they could use for marketing purposes.

In the group's marketing brochure, Gerosa says, "Concrete is the best material to use for safety, blast resistance, durability, flexibility....A cast-in-place, reinforced concrete structure is safer than any other commercial building type." He adds: "Structural steel is fine. We don't object to a steel structure if it is fireproofed properly," with cast-in-place concrete.
Enlarge + But the alliance lacks any scientific evidence, research or statistics to substantiate its claims that concrete is safer than steel. "It's our educated opinion, based on over 50 years of experience," says Gerosa.

Structural engineers say alliance claims are not only without merit, they are out of bounds. "Their assertion that concrete structures are safer than steel is based not on facts but on their greed to build concrete structures...," says Clifford Schwinger, quality assurance manager with Cagley Harman & Associates Inc., King of Prussia, Pa. "That they are trying to profit from the 9/11 tragedy by claiming concrete construction is safer is worse than obscene."

The alliance now is pushing concrete office towers, a building type long dominated in New York City by structural steel. "Before 9/11, we pretty much felt concrete itself was not practical for commercial highrises...," says Gerosa.
OAS_AD('Middle'); The alliance has infuriated steel interests. The American Institute of Steel Construction Inc., Chicago, calls the group's "steel-bashing" tactics, "negative and unprofessional." AISC maintains that concrete does not offer better fire resistance, blast resistance or structural robustness. "These are all characteristics of well-designed buildings, which can be provided in buildings of any material," says Charles J. Carter, AISC chief structural engineer. "But our work on fire, blast, progressive collapse and related topics," continuing with various publications and design guides, "began well before the events of Sept. 11, 2001," he adds.

Structural engineers who work with both concrete and steel systems agree. David Scott, the new chairman of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat and a principal in the New York City office of Arup, calls the alliance's message about fire, nonsense. "What the building community has learned...is that tall office buildings that have no sprinklers and no fire protection on columns will not perform well in a fire," he says.

Even veteran concrete promoters are distancing themselves from the alliance. George Barney, senior vice president for market development and technical services at Portland Cement Association, Skokie, Ill., says: "PCA's 90-year reputation is built on technical excellence and integrity. That's our culture. We do not indulge in negative promotional tactics, nor do we disparage competing materials."

Best of Both. Convention center has steel roof and concrete framing below. The alliance's message "is a source of confusion," says Michael Mota, PCA's New York regional structural engineer. "There's a place for both materials."

The alliance began fomenting the brouhaha as far back as April 2004, when Margrill sent out a press release via e-mail promoting a New York City Concrete Promotional Council seminar, on 505 Fifth Avenue. The building was touted as the first concrete commercial highrise in New York City—one initially designed in steel. "New York skyscrapers used to be built of steel," said the release. "Not anymore!

From now on, cast-in-place reinforced concrete will be the material of choice in the Big Apple."

The claim was spurious. There are at least seven structural steel or hybrid (steel and concrete) office towers recently completed, under way, out for bid or in planning in New York City, reports AISC.

Still, the message was repeated in various industry publications, taking the local debate national. "It is critical that owners, architects, structural engineers, and developers make informed decisions based on accurate information, not misrepresentations spread by representatives of competing systems," replied AISC's then-president, H. Louis Gurthet.

The straw that broke the camel's back for AISC was the alliance's marketing blitz after a recent highrise fire in Madrid. The campaign included a full-page magazine ad. It began: "A demonstration of cast-in-place reinforced concrete over steel construction was the recent fire at Madrid's Windsor Tower."

Scott Melnick, AISC's vice president of communications and editor and publisher of AISC's Modern Steel Construction, shot back with an editorial: "Their latest fairy tale tells the story of the Windsor Tower in Madrid and how it was consumed by a fire that raged for 36 hours. In their story, they report how the building had a concrete frame below the 21st floor and it remained intact, while the building's steel frame from floors 22 to 30 collapsed. There are just a few problems with this story, however. The steel in the building was simply an unprotected steel perimeter framing system primarily supporting the cladding. Second, both the unprotected perimeter framing system and the concrete beams and columns experienced a similar collapse...."To further dispel such stories, AISC's Carter notes a survey of fire-induced collapses in buildings worldwide, performed for the National Institute of Standards and Technology. "The majority of buildings that suffered fire-induced collapse were
in fact reinforced concrete," he says.

The alliance's push for concrete cores is self-serving at best, he adds. If society prioritizes hardening of cores, it can be done with steel frames with masonry infill, concrete shear walls or steel plate shear walls.

Choice of framing is not about safety, say designers. "You can provide adequate safety using either material, following a proper design and performance standard," says Ahmad Rahimian, president of WSP Cantor Seinuk, New York City.
And for many projects, such as convention centers, stadiums, airports and skyscrapers, the solution is often a hybrid system. "The question is not whether the building should be in concrete or steel but how to use the two most effectively," says Rahimian.

http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0271-24663_ITM

• • • • •

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The world can only be redeemed through action--movement -- motion. Uncoerced, unbribed and unbought, humanity will move toward the light.
Alice Hubbard's introduction to An American Bible (1912)

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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Hello

Sherry will probably help, but I'm not sure I know who Luke is at the moment. Yes, I too have had my doubts about many in that organization, but I think that we have to work under the assumption that every group is thoroughly infiltrated (has the troll traffic here ever slowed down?) This is why I'm always suggesting individual actions. I'll ask around, and I'm sure we'll be able to rustle up some support. I'll talk to the crew at the ground zero vigils (circumventing the leadership)

greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com> wrote: http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/132464/index.php

I have talked with Sherry Bender and Luke.

NY911 truth i think is another front like truthorg. or else they simply believe in a top down heirarch approach and WILL NOT SUPPORT the actions of other groups.

Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote:
Excellent chance. Did you talk to anyone else from NYC? Enough of the
movement is here for us to spread out and cover a lot of terretory.
Where can I download the flyer?

--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, greg nixon <nxngrg@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jolly,
>
> Any chance of you helping flyer for 2/20 NYC. I wil try to come
in this week for some
> prep work too.
>
> Greg
>
> Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@...> wrote:
> Sure, Greg -- but I'm not exactly sure which one she's talking
about.
>
> http://www.rense.com/general61/dwe.htm
> http://rense.com/general63/jolly.htm
> http://www.rense.com/general61/tvv.htm
> http://www.rense.com/general63/newam.htm
>
> Greg Nixon <nxngrg@...> wrote:
> Got a link on that Rense article Mr Roger?
>
> --- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com, Jolly Roger
> <slicingthroats@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm very flattered by this, Amy, and I'm glad you liked the
> article, but I have to respectfully decline because I don't deal in
> conspiracy theories -- only scientific evidence, and documented
> facts. I also suspect that your film project is just another
attempt
> to discredit the 9-11 Truth Movement.
> > Instead of making a film about conspiracy theories, why don't
> you investigate what actually transpired on 9-11, and make a film
> that might actually be important to saving this nation, rather than
> one that will undoubtably mock all who question the lies being
> spewed by our government and the media?
> >
> >
> > Amy Manchester <amym@> wrote:
> > st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> Hello,
> >
> > My name is Amy Manchester and I work for a production company
> out in Los Angeles. We are developing a show based on
investigating
> modern day conspiracy theories. I enjoyed your article on
> www.rense.com and wondered if you would be interested in talking
> some time? I could call you or you could call me, just let me know.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Amy Manchester
> > Director of Development
> > Pilgrim Films & Television
> > 818-728-8819 office
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his
> hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L.
> Mencken
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his
hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L.
Mencken
> ---------------------------------
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:13:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VoxPop & Sander Hicks for 2/20?

Excellent idea, Mr. Random. I'll pay them a visit and see if they'll talk to me.

alan random <alanrandom@yahoo.com> wrote: Greg, Jolly, and everyone else in NYC,

Have you considered approaching the good folks at the Vox Pop bookstore/coffeehouse in Brooklyn?
http://www.voxpopnet.net
http://www.drenchkiss.com
http://www.hicksforgovernor.com
(Vox Pop's Sander Hicks is a 9/11 truth author/activist running for NY governor)

I bet they could be great allies in promoting and participating in the 2/20 event.

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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:17:06 -0800 (PST)
From: greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Hello

Luke is Luke Rudkowski and is 19 years old but a serious "street" activist w/NY911.

Jolly we need to fine tune the route and cancel the ANSWER appearance. too far. Some question even GZ to Times Square. Suggestions welcome. The gist is Spitzer and Giuliani and the damn gatekeepers.

Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sherry will probably help, but I'm not sure I know who Luke is at the moment. Yes, I too have had my doubts about many in that organization, but I think that we have to work under the assumption that every group is thoroughly infiltrated (has the troll traffic here ever slowed down?) This is why I'm always suggesting individual actions. I'll ask around, and I'm sure we'll be able to rustle up some support. I'll talk to the crew at the ground zero vigils (circumventing the leadership)

---------------------------------
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---------------------------------

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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:18:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States

I want a top bunk.

flanker12k <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote: One good thing is hell, i'll have lots of friends at the camps!

you guys!

[This message contained attachments]

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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:36:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jolly Roger <slicingthroats@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Hello

Ground zero to times square is about two miles. How would we cancel ANSWER?
I don't know where Giuliani and Spitzer are located.

greg nixon <nxngrg@yahoo.com> wrote:
Luke is Luke Rudkowski and is 19 years old but a serious "street" activist w/NY911.

Jolly we need to fine tune the route and cancel the ANSWER appearance. too far. Some question even GZ to Times Square. Suggestions welcome. The gist is Spitzer and Giuliani and the damn gatekeepers.

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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:42:51 -0800
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States

If you get top bunk, it is likely to be in a place that is hot, and the bunk
will be above the top of the window…. And where do the tarantulas like to
live anyway, on the ground I hope!

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jolly Roger
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:18 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Re: Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps
In The United States

I want a top bunk.

flanker12k <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote:
One good thing is hell, i'll have lots of friends at the camps!

you guys!

"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:24:51 -0800
From: "Scott Peden" <scotpeden@cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: Reichstag fires?

Betcha it isn’t fundy churches being lit up either, it’ll be the ones that
aren’t fascist shills.

-----Original Message-----
From: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Cathy Garger
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:00 PM
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Reichstag fires?

Yes, Naveed, and reading that this "suspicion" is actually based in reality.
Gosh ya know what? I was actually hoping against all hope that my instincts
were not on target with this, but today I find out our instincts were right
on with this. Geeeeez, it sure is hard to wrap one's brain around such pure
evil.

Naveed <flanker12k@yahoo.com> wrote:
that's why i've been saying i SMELL a SETUP!

someone else brought up a point talking bout how if the EU was really about
freedom of expression then why the hell do they have irving and zundel
locked up behind bars for merely questioning certain historical events?

Gotta paint the ragheads as a bunch of savages......BOOOM and then it
becomes a whole lot easier to mold public opinion against them....

Protesters also took to the streets in Afghanistan, the West Bank, Iraq and
New Zealand, a day after demonstrators in Syria charged security barriers
outside the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus and sent the
buildings up in flames.

Those attacks earned widespread condemnation from European nations and the
U.S., which accused the Syrian government of backing the protests.

A really curious sentence in the piece makes one wonder if somebody is
trying to create "Evil Doing" enemies similar to what happened in our
country right about dinner time on 9/11? Goodness, doesn't this sound
familiar: Now there are forces that wants a confrontation between our
cultures,”

We've got Iran and North Korea as the enemies next on our hit list, and
perhaps this "Islamic extremist" rash of violent eruptions is to get us
fully ready and primed to the fact that next stop - Syria - is not far
behind.

At least this fits a predictable pattern.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10705393/

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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:07:46 -0500
From: benjamin pritchard <ben@benjaminpritchard.name>
Subject: sending a formal delegation from Scholars for 9/11 Truth to Silicon Valley

[This message is not in displayable format]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:19:05 -0500
From: ranger116@webtv.net
Subject: NewOrleans Mayor Nagin requests Aid from Foreign Countries Due To Lack

NewOrleans Mayor Nagin requests Aid from Foreign Countries Due To Lack
of interest of The U.S. Federal Government in helping to rebuild New
Oreleans.

Address:http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060207/2006-02-07T002438Z_01_N03281051_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-HURRICANES-AID-DC.html

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Handful races may tip control of Congress -P. Carter Spying illegal
(below)

Highlights - MSNBC.com
Address:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11193107/

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Gonzales makes case for surveillance program - U.S. Security - MSNBC.com
Address:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11199689/

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````
President Carter: Eavesdropping Illegal
Address:http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/06/D8FJUP882.html
````````````````````````````````````````````````````

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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:57:43 -0500
From: Total Information <totalinfo@gmail.com>
Subject: CNN VIDEO: UN had foreknowledge of Beirut cartoon riot

< http://www.total411.info/2006/02/cnn-video-un-had-foreknowledge-of.html >

[ http://total411.info/2006/02/UNbeirutriot.wmv ]
CNN VIDEO: UN had foreknowledge of Beirut cartoon
riot<http://total411.info/2006/02/UNbeirutriot.wmv>

At 5:54 am ET Sunday morning, 1054 GMT, CNN International was airing
over CNN proper in the US. At that time, a reporter named Anthony Mills
reported that the United Nations knew in advance the Muslim cartoon riots
were coming to Beirut. This after he said he wasn't sure whteher the Danes
had bnothered with extra security for their embassy, which had been set
ablaze.

Check out our exclusive VIDEO
archive<http://total411.info/UNbeirutriots.wmv>of the report.

Here were his exact remarks.:

"ANTHONY MILLS, CNN INTERNATIONAL: My understanding is, as well, that
UN sources were reporting this morning that this was going to be a chaotic
day, if you will... Or, certainly they were reporitng --they were suggesting
-- their workers shouldn't go to work today.

So, indications in advance, I think, probably that something was going
to happen here, that some form or sort of violent porotest might erupt.
-----

It is obvious these riots are planned in advance by handlers seeking a
"clash of civilizations," between the secular/Chrisitan West and the Islamic
world -- these riots are not spontaneous events. Many media have been asking
the sensible question, where does one suddenly get 1000s of Denmark's flags
in Lebanon? It is quote curious.

One Lebanese official told
AP<http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183901,00.html>to look outside
Lebanon for the answer:

"This is an organized attempt to take advantage of Muslim anger for
purposes that do not serve the interests of Muslims and Lebanon, but those
of others beyond the border," Lebanese Social Affairs Minister Nayla
Mouawad, a Christian, said Sunday after riots in Beirut.

.....---
--
www.total411.info
www.total911.info

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Discussion about 09/11/2001

Tuesday, February 07, 2006

[911TruthAction] Digest Number 1113

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