Saturday, October 08, 2005
I stayed up late to watch Bill Maher's Real Time.
Blogger Thought: Interesting coverage of Bill Maher. As you might expect "Mustang Bobby" loses me when he talks about just doing good works. The guilty need to be exposed and prosecuted.
Bark Bark Woof Woof
Saturday, October 08, 2005
Not Happy
I stayed up late to watch Bill Maher's Real Time. The guests included Andrew Sullivan, Ben Affleck, Salman Rushdie, and via videolink, Ann Coulter.What surprised the heck out of me was the vehemence of distrust both Ms. Coulter and Mr. Sullivan had for President Bush based on the events of the last month. Andrew Sullivan said that he had lost all faith in the president, and Ms. Coulter was equally harsh, saying that "trust me" doesn't cut much ice with her any more.Granted, that's from two of the more outspoken and visible conservatives; neither of them are shy about getting in front of a camera or a keyboard. But, like people that call in to C-SPAN, I wonder if Ms. Coulter and Mr. Sullivan represent just the tip of the iceberg and that the rest of the right wing is feeling what they're expressing and in larger numbers than we can fathom. And it's not just the Miers pick; things have been snowballing since the beginning of the summer with Iraq getting worse, the investigation into the Plame case heating up, the indictment of Tom DeLay, the hurricanes...it's just getting to be too much even for the Kool-Aid Kids who think that when George Bush farts they're hearing the Oracle of Delphi.It's pretty easy for liberals and Democrats to grin and watch as the Republicans go through this time of trial for their party and their annointed leader; it's a combination of both smugness and payback for the low points in 1998 and 1999 when they struggled to make sense of the impeachment of Bill Clinton. That's a natural reaction, too -- the Republicans felt it when they thought Monica Lewinsky was their payback for Watergate and Iran-Contra. It vindicated their take-over of the House in 1994 and they would show the world just how government should be run.Well, fine. Everyone should allow themselves moment of self-satisfaction when their worst predictions of the other guy's excesses come true. But it would be a mistake if we allowed that to become the way we govern or think of the role of partisan politics.In the first place, the idea of impeaching George W. Bush is a non-starter. It won't happen, and even if it could -- if even the most conservative Republican and crony should throw in the towel and decide they've made a horrible mistake -- all we'd get is President Cheney, or at the most, President J. Dennis Hastert until the Democrats take over the House, which can't happen until January 3, 2007 at the earliest. Impeachment is a bald-face attempt at revenge for the Clinton impeachment, and that's not how we progressives should do things, anyway. Resorting to the tactics of our opponents is the political equivalent of inflicting torture on prisoners of war, and we're the ones who say we're above that.In the second place, we have too much to do to grind the government to a halt for the sake of exacting political revenge. This administration may have started a war on false pretenses, plunged our economy into tremendous debt, and exhibited the worst excesses of corporate corruption by buying up the votes of our representatives, but it's our mess, too, and the world isn't going to stop and wait while we squabble about whose fault it is. We already know that; now we have to clean it up, and the Democrats can prove that they have the right to win back the House, Senate, and White House by getting to work at every level to get the jobs done. We have schools to run, health care to fix, an infrastructure that is crumbling, hurricanes to clean up after, and a hundred other issues that are waiting for action. Most of them are not defined by political party; they are the needs of the people, and the sooner we get back to work the better things will be. And if the Democrats can prove themselves to to be the ones to do it, so much the better. The polls showing the president's approval ratings in the mid-thirties mean more than just disgust with his performance; it's a reflection on all of our leaders. I'm not happy with how things are going, either, but I also don't take pleasure in seeing the shit-storm falling on the Republicans. (Well....okay, I'm a little happy, but not over the moon.) I just want the work to get done. We will get our chance to express our disapproval in a practical way in 13 months, but between now and then, we have a country to run. I don't know about you, but I have always believed that the best work gets done when the people who are doing it don't care about who gets the credit.
Bark Bark Woof Woof
Saturday, October 08, 2005
Not Happy
I stayed up late to watch Bill Maher's Real Time. The guests included Andrew Sullivan, Ben Affleck, Salman Rushdie, and via videolink, Ann Coulter.What surprised the heck out of me was the vehemence of distrust both Ms. Coulter and Mr. Sullivan had for President Bush based on the events of the last month. Andrew Sullivan said that he had lost all faith in the president, and Ms. Coulter was equally harsh, saying that "trust me" doesn't cut much ice with her any more.Granted, that's from two of the more outspoken and visible conservatives; neither of them are shy about getting in front of a camera or a keyboard. But, like people that call in to C-SPAN, I wonder if Ms. Coulter and Mr. Sullivan represent just the tip of the iceberg and that the rest of the right wing is feeling what they're expressing and in larger numbers than we can fathom. And it's not just the Miers pick; things have been snowballing since the beginning of the summer with Iraq getting worse, the investigation into the Plame case heating up, the indictment of Tom DeLay, the hurricanes...it's just getting to be too much even for the Kool-Aid Kids who think that when George Bush farts they're hearing the Oracle of Delphi.It's pretty easy for liberals and Democrats to grin and watch as the Republicans go through this time of trial for their party and their annointed leader; it's a combination of both smugness and payback for the low points in 1998 and 1999 when they struggled to make sense of the impeachment of Bill Clinton. That's a natural reaction, too -- the Republicans felt it when they thought Monica Lewinsky was their payback for Watergate and Iran-Contra. It vindicated their take-over of the House in 1994 and they would show the world just how government should be run.Well, fine. Everyone should allow themselves moment of self-satisfaction when their worst predictions of the other guy's excesses come true. But it would be a mistake if we allowed that to become the way we govern or think of the role of partisan politics.In the first place, the idea of impeaching George W. Bush is a non-starter. It won't happen, and even if it could -- if even the most conservative Republican and crony should throw in the towel and decide they've made a horrible mistake -- all we'd get is President Cheney, or at the most, President J. Dennis Hastert until the Democrats take over the House, which can't happen until January 3, 2007 at the earliest. Impeachment is a bald-face attempt at revenge for the Clinton impeachment, and that's not how we progressives should do things, anyway. Resorting to the tactics of our opponents is the political equivalent of inflicting torture on prisoners of war, and we're the ones who say we're above that.In the second place, we have too much to do to grind the government to a halt for the sake of exacting political revenge. This administration may have started a war on false pretenses, plunged our economy into tremendous debt, and exhibited the worst excesses of corporate corruption by buying up the votes of our representatives, but it's our mess, too, and the world isn't going to stop and wait while we squabble about whose fault it is. We already know that; now we have to clean it up, and the Democrats can prove that they have the right to win back the House, Senate, and White House by getting to work at every level to get the jobs done. We have schools to run, health care to fix, an infrastructure that is crumbling, hurricanes to clean up after, and a hundred other issues that are waiting for action. Most of them are not defined by political party; they are the needs of the people, and the sooner we get back to work the better things will be. And if the Democrats can prove themselves to to be the ones to do it, so much the better. The polls showing the president's approval ratings in the mid-thirties mean more than just disgust with his performance; it's a reflection on all of our leaders. I'm not happy with how things are going, either, but I also don't take pleasure in seeing the shit-storm falling on the Republicans. (Well....okay, I'm a little happy, but not over the moon.) I just want the work to get done. We will get our chance to express our disapproval in a practical way in 13 months, but between now and then, we have a country to run. I don't know about you, but I have always believed that the best work gets done when the people who are doing it don't care about who gets the credit.
FBI Claims 84 Videos Show NO Flight 77 Impact
FBI Claims 84 Videos Show NO Flight 77 Impact
FBI Claims 84 Videos
Show NO Flight 77 Impact
By Jon Carlson
carlson.jon@att.net
10-8-5- Photos taken after the Pentagon crash do not support the Government conspiracy theory that Flight 77, a Boeing 757 airliner, demolished a major portion of the masonry structure:
- Seismic waveform data also brings into question what struck the Pentagon. Seismologists have detected other 9/11 aircraft even pinpointing exact crash times for the Boeing 737 airliners that crashed into the WTC Towers and the aircraft alleged to be Flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania. The seismologists observed:
- We analyzed seismic records from five stations in the northeastern United States, ranging from 63 to 350 km from the Pentagon. Despite detailed analysis of the data, we could not find a clear seismic signal. Even the closest station ( = 62.8 km) at Soldier's Delight, Baltimore County, Maryland (SDMD) did not record the impact. We concluded that the plane impact to the Pentagon generated relatively weak seismic signals.
- http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/nodate/seismicobservations.html
- The RENSE article, The 911 Pentagon Engine Story,
- http://www.rense.com/general67/911eng.htm
- explained that the JT8D engine identified in the debris in front of the Pentagon wall could have been from early Boeing 737-100 and 737-200 airliners or an assortment of other aircraft. Since witnesses decribed the incoming Pentagon aircraft having two engines under the wings the number of possible aircraft comes down to a handful.
- National Geographic reported that the FBI confiscated a video tape from a Citgo gas station within a half hour of the crash. Without asking the questions how did the FBI know of the tape and how did they grab it so quickly, many people think the aircraft model could be identified from that video since the aircraft flew directly over the Citgo station
- http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1211_wirepentagon.html
- The RENSE article, Missing Pentagon Unobstructed Citgo Videos,
- http://www.rense.com/general63/unob.htm
- develops the Citgo station story with more outstanding photos.
- Even though America's Coverup Agencies, the FBI and the Pentagon, have fought tooth and nail to prevent disclosure of what really happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 photos, witnesses have already filled in the blanks. Get up to speed by reading The RENSE article, Sneak Preview - 911 Pentagon Tapes:
- http://www.rense.com/general64/911et.htm
- In that article American patriots are taking the DOJ and the FBI though the wringer in a Federal Court. A retired FBI agent told this writer that FBI lawyers are hacks. He claimed any good attorneys go to work for the other side!
- Bronco Bingham is the plaintiff in the main FOIA action to obtain the Pentagon videotapes. His crackerjack attorney, Scott Hodes, is running circles around the FBI lawyers.
- TIMELINE FOR BRONCO BINGHAM, SCOTT HODES FOIA REQUEST
- Courtesy of Bronco Bingham www.flight77.info
- October 14, 2004
- FOIA REQUEST: all videotapes that showed the Pentagon crash impact in any office of the FBI. The request mentioned that the Citgo station and the Sheraton National Hotel had videos taken by the FBI on 9/11.
- November 3, 2004,
- FBI ANSWER: no Sheraton National Hotel videotapes
- November 17, 2004
- APPEAL: Where is the Citgo video? FBI answer was inadequate search. Responder was inexperienced with indexing procedures. Request that searcher ask 9/11 investigators directly for location of videos.
- December 1, 2004
- FBI letter acknowledged receipt of APPEAL letter.
- March 7, 2005 (4 months later)
- FBI letter in respnse to APPEAL: A tape was found but release would interfere with enforcement proceedings.
- THAT VIDEO is believed to be the video source of the famous Pentagon Parking Lot stills. Attorney Hodes noted in the FOIA request that stills from the Parking Lot video had already been released by CNN:
- http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/index.html
- However, the FBI claims those stills were 'leaked' by the Pentagon and NOT officially released. Therefore, the FBI doesn't considered them to exist!
- In the Sneak Preview - 911 Pentagon Tapes article, a helicopter was prominent in the 'leaked' stills. Its function was to remote control the aircraft at the construction entrance located at ground level to make it appear the plane actually penetrated the Pentagon:
- The renovated Pentagon section that was targeted had special steel, kevlar reinforced masonry walls and 'blastproof' windows. Jack Singleton explains how the aircraft got partially into the Pentagon:
- "Where the plane came in was really at the CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE," says Jack Singleton, president of Singleton Electric Co. Inc., Gaithersburg MD, the Wedge One electrical subcontractor. "The plane's left wing actually came in near the ground and the right wing was tilted up in the air. That right wing went directly over our trailer, so if that wing had not tilted up, it would have hit the trailer. My foreman, Mickey Bell, had just walked out of the trailer and was walking toward the construction entrance."
- http://web.archive.org/web/20040404074145/
http://www.designbuildmag.com/oct2001/pentagon1001.asp - From witness accounts the aircraft piled up on the Pentagon masonry wall and after a short while was blown to bits that rained down for blocks. The Parking Lot stills show THAT explosion and the parts of the aircraft in the air along with the helicopter. THE FBI PARKING LOT VIDEO WOULD SHOW THE IMPACT, THE DELAY, THE EXPLOSION, AND WHAT TYPE OF AIRCRAFT. Here are three of the 'leaked' stills from that video:.
- March 8, 2005
- COMPLAINT FOR DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF
- Inadequate search and release of records. Failure to timely respond. Requests injunctive relief that defendants immediately and fully comply with plaintiff's FOIA request.
- April 18, 2005
- DOJ RESPONSE: Claims no records have been withheld. ADMITS Citgo tape was confiscated but it doesn't show Impact. Claims no Sheraton video.
- April 19, 2005
- JUDGE'S ORDER
- It is hereby ORDERED that the defendants shall file a motion to dismiss or a motion for summary judgment before June 31, 2005.
- August 1, 2005
- DOJ SEEKS SUMMARY JUDGMENT on basis of Videos withheld because of ongoing enforcement proceedings.
- August 29, 2005
- OPPOSITION TO SUMMARY JUDGMENT: Requests FBI release parking lot video and make a better search. Claims video CAN'T be withheld under amendment 7 as its release will not affect the sentencing of Zacharias Moussaoui who has already pled guilty to six charges of conspiracy to commit the terorist attacks that included hijacking and crashing Flight 77 into the Pentagon on 9/11.
- September 9, 2005
- DOJ Reply to Opposition to Summary Judgment: Similar to above DOJ reply.
- September 9, 2005
- EXHIBIT FOUR from the count case was a DECLARATION of FBI agent Jacqueline Maquire on the discovery of 85 Pentagon tapes from 9/11.
- 1) Using associated written documentation BUT not viewing them, 56 videos didn't show the Pentagon building, crash site, or crash impact.
- 2) Viewed 29 tapes personally but sixteen videos didn't show the impact and crash site
- 3) The other 13 videos showed the Pentagon crash site. Twelve of these tapes showed the crash site after the impact. Agent Maquire found only a CD-ROM with the Parking Lot video copies.
- 4) Found one Citgo station video. A FBI video unit was asked to determine if it showed the impact but no impact was seen.
- 5) Found no Sheraton National Hotel video. Found a Doubletree Hotel video but no impact was seen.
- September 26, 2005
- Second FOIA request: Seeks copies of 85 tapes in decribed in the Maquire Declaration.
- In a response to another FOIA request attorney Peter Gersten was told the Citgo station video and another video from a Virginia Department of Transportation camera were confiscated but are withheld for ongoing enforcement proceedings.
- Peter gets the LAST WORD:
- I am sure that you (FBI searcher) are aware that FOIA exemption (b)(7)(A) which applies to law enforcement records requires a showing that the production of such records or information could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. The two CCTV videos purportedly show what several witnesses have publicly stated they observed: Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon on 9-11-01.
- As I stated in the appeal of my initial request, the debate over what hit the Pentagon has thrived due to the apparent contradiction between the eyewitness and physical evidence. Whereas a large body of reports of eyewitness accounts strongly supports that a twin-engine jetliner (Flight 77) swooped in at a very low altitude and exploded at or in front of the Pentagon, photographs of the facade and lawn show an absence of aircraft debris or a pattern of damage consistent with such an aircraft.
- The resulting evidence vacuum has created the conditions for a protracted controversy about what hit the Pentagon. The lack of evidence of large aircraft debris in post-crash photographs of the Pentagon's exterior, combined with the refusal of officials to produce evidence supporting the official story, has led many skeptics to believe that the damage was caused by something other than a jetliner hitting the building.
- Further, there is neither video footage nor any photographic evidence in the public domain showing a jetliner approaching or crashing into the Pentagon. Not only has the government refused to release footage that would clearly show how the Pentagon was attacked, it has also seized footage not belonging to the military. The FBI reportedly confiscated video recordings from three locations shortly after the attack (Sheraton National Hotel, NEXCOMM/CITGO gas station, and the Virginia Department of Transportation). The FBI has, in its latest response admitted possessing at least two of these CCTV videos. These two recordings could provide decisive evidence about the crash and end the controversy.
- All the perpetrators who directly participated in the hijacking of the jetliners and the subsequent attacks are dead. Even assuming that the FBI is conducting an ongoing investigation, the release of the two CCTV videos would in no way jeopardize, compromise, or hinder that investigation since the videos merely show what everyone already is aware of ? Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon.
- http://www.pagenews.info/foipa/foipa_04112005_reply.php
- http://www.pagenews.info/foipa/foipa_03242005_reply.php
- The RENSE article, 9/11 Flight 93 Passenger 'Lost',
- http://www.rense.com/general67/911pass.htm
- presented the case for the New Orleans Levees being blown. A new discovery of a seismic heliogram at the time of the explosions (6-7a.m, August 29th.) shows mysterious wave motions. Around 7 p.m. the collection of data stopped. Wayne Madsen has reported that Ham radio operators said their FM signals were jammed as Katrina went through. The seimic station connects to the Network via the FM band also.
- http://www.ceri.memphis.edu/katrina/
- http://www.ceri.memphis.edu/katrina/images/LTL_HHZ_LI.2005082900.gif
- Most important of all, 2008 Presidential candidate Karl Schwarz says it is time to take back America. See his message and the party partform:
- http://www.karlschwarz2008.com/home.htm
- DON'T MISS:
9/11 Flight 93 Passengers 'Lost' - http://www.rense.com/general67/911pass.htm
- The 9/11 Pentagon Engine Story
- http://www.rense.com/general67/911eng.htm
- The 911 North Tower Demolition Explained
- http://www.rense.com/general67/9118.htm
- The Rest Of The 911 Flight 93 Story
- http://www.rense.com/general67/rest911.htm
- South Tower Exit Wounds Tell 9/11 Tale
- http://www.rense.com/general67/911uu.htm
- Dirty Little 9/11 Secrets Exposed
http://www.rense.com/general66/dirt.htm - Bush Responds To 911 Fireworks
- http://www.rense.com/general66/ressp.htm
- Hollywood-like Fake Smoke Made 9/11
- http://www.rense.com/general65/911mir.htm
- WTC 7 Smoke & Mirrors On 9/11
- http://www.rense.com/general65/911m.htm
CBC 9/11 Video Secrets Revealed - http://www.rense.com/general65/911b.htm
911 CNN Reports Boeing 737s Struck WTC - http://www.rense.com/general65/911h.htm
- Sneak Preview - 911 Pentagon Tapes
- http://www.rense.com/general64/911et.htm
- The Rest Of The 9/11 Street Engine Story
- http://www.rense.com/general64/wth.htm
- NYC Photos, Flight 93 Witnesses Identify 9/11 White Jet
- http://www.rense.com/general64/white.htm
- On 9/11 An Ill Wind Blew to Booker School
- http://www.rense.com/general63/wte.htm
- WTC Jet Engine Confirmed NOT From Boeing 767
- http://www.rense.com/general63/wtcc.htm
- Second 911 Remote Control Antenna Verified
- http://www.rense.com/general63/secnd.htm
- Avionics Expert-A 911 Remote Control Lesson for PM
- http://www.rense.com/general63/remo.htm
- WTC Cutter Charges Clearly Visible
- http://www.rense.com/general63/cutt.htm
- Real 911 Science For PM - The ST Airliner Photo
- http://www.rense.com/general63/st.htm
- PM Claims Landing Gear Made Pentagon 12 Foot Hole
- http://www.rense.com/general63/pmm.htm
- PM Missed NASA 911-type Airliner Crash 20 Years Ago
- http://www.rense.com/general63/pm.htm
- Is Popular Mechanics Hiding 911 NYC Engine In Street Photo?
- http://www.rense.com/general63/hiding.htm
- Missing Pentagon Jet Engine Identified?
- http://www.rense.com/general63/ident.htm
- Missing Pentagon Unobstructed Citgo Videos
- http://www.rense.com/general63/unob.htm
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CDC's tularemia cover-up & NORTHCOM's 'Granite Shadow'
TOTAL INFORMATION ANALYSIS: "CDC's tularemia cover-up & NORTHCOM's 'Granite Shadow'"
Decision Makers May Be Blind To The Outcome Of Their Choice
Decision Makers May Be Blind To The Outcome Of Their Choice
Blogger Thoughts: The evidence for this is piling up: people make it up as they go to justify what they have to justify to try to be consistent.
Blogger Thoughts: The evidence for this is piling up: people make it up as they go to justify what they have to justify to try to be consistent.
Civil Commotion � The silver lining �
Civil Commotion � The silver lining �
Blogger Thoughts: I just vomited on my keyboard.
Tags: 9/11 09/11/2001 Al Qaeda
Blogger Thoughts: I just vomited on my keyboard.
Tags: 9/11 09/11/2001 Al Qaeda
The Blog | Nathan Gardels: Salman Rushdie: Inside the Mind of Jihadists
The Blog | Nathan Gardels: Salman Rushdie: Inside the Mind of Jihadists | The Huffington Post
Blogger Thoughts: Perhaps Rushdie could write a follow up book called: "Inside the Minds of False Flag Murderous Traitors supporting the US Junta".
Tags: 09/11/2001 Terror BS Government Lies
Blogger Thoughts: Perhaps Rushdie could write a follow up book called: "Inside the Minds of False Flag Murderous Traitors supporting the US Junta".
Tags: 09/11/2001 Terror BS Government Lies
The Blog | David Corn: Why Would Rove ask to Testify to the Grand Jury Again? | The Huffington Post
The Blog | David Corn: Why Would Rove ask to Testify to the Grand Jury Again? | The Huffington Post
"...Rove would have a pressing need to engage in testimony rehabilitation..."
"...Rove would have a pressing need to engage in testimony rehabilitation..."
3rd Man Detained in Connection With Terror Plot, Official Says - New York Times
3rd Man Detained in Connection With Terror Plot, Official Says - New York Times
October 7, 2005
3rd Man Detained in Connection With Terror Plot, Official Says
By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and JANON FISHER
A third man has been detained in a suspected plot to detonate explosives on the city's subway system, a government official said today, as police officers searched passengers' bags on subways, buses and ferries.
Authorities are holding Al Qaeda operatives in connection with the suspected plot, although no details were available on who they are, where they were detained or what agency captured them, said the government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The official said the person who provided the information about the men had undergone explosives training with them at an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
Security in and around the city's transit network was sharply increased Thursday after city officials announced that they had been notified by federal authorities in Washington of a terrorist threat that for the first time specified the city's transit system.
The measures were made public Thursday by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, along with Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly and the head of the New York F.B.I. office, Mark J. Mershon, after an American military operation with the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. in Iraq, according to law enforcement officials. The operation, carried out this week, was aimed at disrupting the threat, the officials said.
Some officials in Washington have played down the nature of the threat. While not entirely dismissing it, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security described it as "specific yet noncredible," adding that the intelligence community had concluded that the information was of "doubtful credibility."
Today in Washington, President Bush said the city had decided on its own to inform the public about the threats.
"Our job is to gather intelligence and pass it on to local authorities," Mr. Bush told reporters in a White House picture-taking session with Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany of Hungary. "And they make the judgments necessary to respond. The level of cooperation between the federal government and the local government is getting better and better. And part of that level of cooperation is the ability to pass information on. And we did, and they responded."
When asked whether he thought New York officials had overreacted, the president demurred. "I think they took the information we gave and made the judgments they thought were necessary," he said. "And the American people have got to know that, one, we're collecting information and sharing it with local authorities on a timely basis. And that's important."
Earlier today, the White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters: "In this case, we notified New York City officials early on of the intelligence information that we had received. And while it is specific, you heard our Homeland Security officials say it is of doubtful credibility. It is something we continue to analyze."
But in an afternoon news conference in New York, Mr. Bloomberg said he believed he had made the right decision by informing the public about the possibility of a terrorist attack.
"If I'm going to make a mistake, you can rest assured it's going to be on the side of being cautious," he said. "If it happened again, I would make exactly the same decision."
Mr. Kelly agreed, saying: "I can't think of anything other than what could have been done than what we proceeded to do."
Asked about the disagreement over how seriously to take the threat, the mayor said that intelligence information is rarely clear cut.
"You'll never get a consensus in the intelligence community on any one thing," he said. "In the end, you will find that not everyone's on the same page."
At subway stations today, riders said they were generally unworried about the latest warning.
"I'm a fourth-generation New Yorker," said Alexandra Noya, 35, as she got off a train at Columbus Circle. "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen." The warning from the mayor and police commissioner, she said, "didn't deter me."
Jimmy George, 65, from Teaneck, N.J., said he doubted the seriousness of the threat. Mr. George said he believed the timing was related to the coming New York City mayoral election.
"Is it time to wag the dog?" he said. "It's election time. It seems during election times there's always some type of threat."
Bradford Ellis, who turned 35 today, said the threat was likely real, but said he was comfortable taking his chances riding the train.
"Everybody was calling me today, telling me I shouldn't get on the subway because it's my birthday," he said. "But you can't let it affect you. I think it's a possible threat, but I don't live my life on possibilities."
At the Times Square station, an M.T.A. conductor, Ray Volsario, said he was not told about the threat by supervisors, and learned about it from television news.
"They don't tell us anything," he said. "We're supposed to be the eyes and ears of the subway system - why are we the last to know?"
A portion of Penn Station was evacuated for about two hours this morning after police responded to reports about a suspicious package and a possibly toxic substance inside a bottle. Mr. Kelly, the police commissioner, said the package turned out to be harmless litter. The bottle, said Mr. Kelly, appeared to be a "Drain-O type" fluid.
"It appears to be a prank," said Mr. Kelly. Authorities took away the bottle to analyze the liquid, he said.
Information about the threat, came to light last weekend from an intelligence source who told federal authorities that the three men in Iraq had planned to meet with other operatives in New York, said several law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
One official said the group would number about a dozen. Another official said the total was closer to 20 people involved. The men planned to use strollers, briefcases and packages to hide a number of bombs that they planned to detonate on the subways.
"It was a conspiracy involving more than a dozen people aimed at delivering a number of devices into the subway," one of the officials said.
One official said the information suggested an attack could happen as early as today; another pointed to the middle of the month.
"This is a piece of information that came in as a result of operations that go on all the time, and to corroborate that information or not we had to go after certain people," one official said.
Mr. Mershon said: "F.B.I. agents and other U.S. government personnel continue to work around the clock to fully resolve this particular threat. Thus far, there is nothing that has surfaced in that investigation or those enforcement actions which has corroborated an actual threat to the city."
Mayor Bloomberg seemed to try to inform New Yorkers without alarming them. He said that while the threat was not corroborated, it was specific enough to warrant an immediate and overwhelming response.
"It was more specific as to target; it was more specific as to timing, and some of the sources had more information that would lead one to believe that it was not the kind of thing that appears in the intelligence community every day," Mr. Bloomberg said.
The mayor urged New Yorkers to continue riding the subways, as he said he would, but cautioned them to be watchful, saying several times, "If you see something, say something."
As he spoke, thousands of city police officers were swarming the transit system. An officer will be assigned to each subway station, and Commissioner Kelly said the Police Department is significantly stepping up uniformed and plainclothes patrols, increasing sweeps through subway cars and posting officers at each subway tunnel that passes beneath city waterways. The department's heavily armed "Hercules teams" and other specialized units will also focus on the transit system, he said.
Bag searches will also be significantly increased, the commissioner said, with a focus on briefcases, baby strollers, luggage and other packages and containers, and he asked subway riders to curtail their use. The searches will take place not only on the subways, but also on buses and ferries, and the Police Department has coordinated the increased scrutiny with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, New Jersey Transit, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and Amtrak. Mr. Kelly used narcotics detectives from Brooklyn and Queens and other investigators from the department's Warrant Division to increase security in the subways. Officers mobilized at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
On Thursday, Mr. Bloomberg, Mr. Kelly and Mr. Mershon declined to discuss the events in Iraq, or where they had occurred, saying that it was classified.
Counterterrorism officials in Washington said the information received this week was highly specific, including details about the possible use of suitcase bombs and explosives hidden in strollers. That information, along with the more general concern that terrorists might stage an attack modeled on the July bombings in London, prompted immediate concern, the officials said.
On an average weekday, an estimated 4.7 million rides are taken on New York's subway system, which has 468 stations.
Russ Knocke, a spokesman for Homeland Security, said the credibility of the threat was still to be determined.
He said Homeland Security "received intelligence information regarding a specific but noncredible threat to the New York City subway system."
Mr. Knocke said Homeland Security shared the information "early on with state and local authorities in New York," adding, "There are no plans to alter the national threat level or the threat level in New York City."
He would not say any more about the content of the threat or the origin of the information.
Paul J. Browne, the Police Department's deputy commissioner of public information, would not discuss whether the source information suggested that operatives were in New York. He would say only, "We're looking at all aspects of this case."
Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, city and national law enforcement authorities have at times reacted differently to similar threat information. In part, this is because of the varying roles that different agencies play. The New York Police Department, for example, is responsible for protecting the city and its subways and therefore is more likely to act quickly. The F.B.I.'s prime antiterrorism mission, on the other hand, is thwarting plots and apprehending any suspected terrorists - a task that is almost always complicated by information becoming public. But on Thursday, city and F.B.I. officials in New York stood side by side and seemed to present a similar message. Officials from Homeland Security did not take part in the briefing.
Of the information from Iraq, one official said: "Suffice it to say it was credible enough for us to be working it very hard and very diligently literally around the clock and around the world. Sometimes it looks incredibly detailed, and then it washes out into nothing, and sometimes pretty vague in nature and it turns into something real. You can't know until you go through the process, and we're going through the process."
William A. Morange, the transportation authority's security director and a member of a citywide counterterrorism task force, was informed several days ago about the threat, said Tom Kelly, a spokesman.
"We were kept well apprised of all the developments since earlier this week," Mr. Kelly said.
The Police Department also put into effect a broad range of measures aimed at stepping up security around the city that did not address the specific threat, but were aimed at tightening the city's security cordon. They included increased truck searches on East River crossings and banning trucks from the Brooklyn Bridge.
The department will also increase the use of radiation detectors, and detectives from the department's Intelligence Division will check parking lots and garages in Manhattan and in other areas of the city.
Reporting for this article was contributed by David Johnston, Eric Lipton and Eric Lichtblau, in Washington, and Sewell Chan, Kareem Fahim and Timothy Williams, in New York.
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
October 7, 2005
3rd Man Detained in Connection With Terror Plot, Official Says
By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and JANON FISHER
A third man has been detained in a suspected plot to detonate explosives on the city's subway system, a government official said today, as police officers searched passengers' bags on subways, buses and ferries.
Authorities are holding Al Qaeda operatives in connection with the suspected plot, although no details were available on who they are, where they were detained or what agency captured them, said the government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The official said the person who provided the information about the men had undergone explosives training with them at an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
Security in and around the city's transit network was sharply increased Thursday after city officials announced that they had been notified by federal authorities in Washington of a terrorist threat that for the first time specified the city's transit system.
The measures were made public Thursday by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, along with Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly and the head of the New York F.B.I. office, Mark J. Mershon, after an American military operation with the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. in Iraq, according to law enforcement officials. The operation, carried out this week, was aimed at disrupting the threat, the officials said.
Some officials in Washington have played down the nature of the threat. While not entirely dismissing it, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security described it as "specific yet noncredible," adding that the intelligence community had concluded that the information was of "doubtful credibility."
Today in Washington, President Bush said the city had decided on its own to inform the public about the threats.
"Our job is to gather intelligence and pass it on to local authorities," Mr. Bush told reporters in a White House picture-taking session with Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany of Hungary. "And they make the judgments necessary to respond. The level of cooperation between the federal government and the local government is getting better and better. And part of that level of cooperation is the ability to pass information on. And we did, and they responded."
When asked whether he thought New York officials had overreacted, the president demurred. "I think they took the information we gave and made the judgments they thought were necessary," he said. "And the American people have got to know that, one, we're collecting information and sharing it with local authorities on a timely basis. And that's important."
Earlier today, the White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters: "In this case, we notified New York City officials early on of the intelligence information that we had received. And while it is specific, you heard our Homeland Security officials say it is of doubtful credibility. It is something we continue to analyze."
But in an afternoon news conference in New York, Mr. Bloomberg said he believed he had made the right decision by informing the public about the possibility of a terrorist attack.
"If I'm going to make a mistake, you can rest assured it's going to be on the side of being cautious," he said. "If it happened again, I would make exactly the same decision."
Mr. Kelly agreed, saying: "I can't think of anything other than what could have been done than what we proceeded to do."
Asked about the disagreement over how seriously to take the threat, the mayor said that intelligence information is rarely clear cut.
"You'll never get a consensus in the intelligence community on any one thing," he said. "In the end, you will find that not everyone's on the same page."
At subway stations today, riders said they were generally unworried about the latest warning.
"I'm a fourth-generation New Yorker," said Alexandra Noya, 35, as she got off a train at Columbus Circle. "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen." The warning from the mayor and police commissioner, she said, "didn't deter me."
Jimmy George, 65, from Teaneck, N.J., said he doubted the seriousness of the threat. Mr. George said he believed the timing was related to the coming New York City mayoral election.
"Is it time to wag the dog?" he said. "It's election time. It seems during election times there's always some type of threat."
Bradford Ellis, who turned 35 today, said the threat was likely real, but said he was comfortable taking his chances riding the train.
"Everybody was calling me today, telling me I shouldn't get on the subway because it's my birthday," he said. "But you can't let it affect you. I think it's a possible threat, but I don't live my life on possibilities."
At the Times Square station, an M.T.A. conductor, Ray Volsario, said he was not told about the threat by supervisors, and learned about it from television news.
"They don't tell us anything," he said. "We're supposed to be the eyes and ears of the subway system - why are we the last to know?"
A portion of Penn Station was evacuated for about two hours this morning after police responded to reports about a suspicious package and a possibly toxic substance inside a bottle. Mr. Kelly, the police commissioner, said the package turned out to be harmless litter. The bottle, said Mr. Kelly, appeared to be a "Drain-O type" fluid.
"It appears to be a prank," said Mr. Kelly. Authorities took away the bottle to analyze the liquid, he said.
Information about the threat, came to light last weekend from an intelligence source who told federal authorities that the three men in Iraq had planned to meet with other operatives in New York, said several law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
One official said the group would number about a dozen. Another official said the total was closer to 20 people involved. The men planned to use strollers, briefcases and packages to hide a number of bombs that they planned to detonate on the subways.
"It was a conspiracy involving more than a dozen people aimed at delivering a number of devices into the subway," one of the officials said.
One official said the information suggested an attack could happen as early as today; another pointed to the middle of the month.
"This is a piece of information that came in as a result of operations that go on all the time, and to corroborate that information or not we had to go after certain people," one official said.
Mr. Mershon said: "F.B.I. agents and other U.S. government personnel continue to work around the clock to fully resolve this particular threat. Thus far, there is nothing that has surfaced in that investigation or those enforcement actions which has corroborated an actual threat to the city."
Mayor Bloomberg seemed to try to inform New Yorkers without alarming them. He said that while the threat was not corroborated, it was specific enough to warrant an immediate and overwhelming response.
"It was more specific as to target; it was more specific as to timing, and some of the sources had more information that would lead one to believe that it was not the kind of thing that appears in the intelligence community every day," Mr. Bloomberg said.
The mayor urged New Yorkers to continue riding the subways, as he said he would, but cautioned them to be watchful, saying several times, "If you see something, say something."
As he spoke, thousands of city police officers were swarming the transit system. An officer will be assigned to each subway station, and Commissioner Kelly said the Police Department is significantly stepping up uniformed and plainclothes patrols, increasing sweeps through subway cars and posting officers at each subway tunnel that passes beneath city waterways. The department's heavily armed "Hercules teams" and other specialized units will also focus on the transit system, he said.
Bag searches will also be significantly increased, the commissioner said, with a focus on briefcases, baby strollers, luggage and other packages and containers, and he asked subway riders to curtail their use. The searches will take place not only on the subways, but also on buses and ferries, and the Police Department has coordinated the increased scrutiny with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, New Jersey Transit, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and Amtrak. Mr. Kelly used narcotics detectives from Brooklyn and Queens and other investigators from the department's Warrant Division to increase security in the subways. Officers mobilized at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
On Thursday, Mr. Bloomberg, Mr. Kelly and Mr. Mershon declined to discuss the events in Iraq, or where they had occurred, saying that it was classified.
Counterterrorism officials in Washington said the information received this week was highly specific, including details about the possible use of suitcase bombs and explosives hidden in strollers. That information, along with the more general concern that terrorists might stage an attack modeled on the July bombings in London, prompted immediate concern, the officials said.
On an average weekday, an estimated 4.7 million rides are taken on New York's subway system, which has 468 stations.
Russ Knocke, a spokesman for Homeland Security, said the credibility of the threat was still to be determined.
He said Homeland Security "received intelligence information regarding a specific but noncredible threat to the New York City subway system."
Mr. Knocke said Homeland Security shared the information "early on with state and local authorities in New York," adding, "There are no plans to alter the national threat level or the threat level in New York City."
He would not say any more about the content of the threat or the origin of the information.
Paul J. Browne, the Police Department's deputy commissioner of public information, would not discuss whether the source information suggested that operatives were in New York. He would say only, "We're looking at all aspects of this case."
Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, city and national law enforcement authorities have at times reacted differently to similar threat information. In part, this is because of the varying roles that different agencies play. The New York Police Department, for example, is responsible for protecting the city and its subways and therefore is more likely to act quickly. The F.B.I.'s prime antiterrorism mission, on the other hand, is thwarting plots and apprehending any suspected terrorists - a task that is almost always complicated by information becoming public. But on Thursday, city and F.B.I. officials in New York stood side by side and seemed to present a similar message. Officials from Homeland Security did not take part in the briefing.
Of the information from Iraq, one official said: "Suffice it to say it was credible enough for us to be working it very hard and very diligently literally around the clock and around the world. Sometimes it looks incredibly detailed, and then it washes out into nothing, and sometimes pretty vague in nature and it turns into something real. You can't know until you go through the process, and we're going through the process."
William A. Morange, the transportation authority's security director and a member of a citywide counterterrorism task force, was informed several days ago about the threat, said Tom Kelly, a spokesman.
"We were kept well apprised of all the developments since earlier this week," Mr. Kelly said.
The Police Department also put into effect a broad range of measures aimed at stepping up security around the city that did not address the specific threat, but were aimed at tightening the city's security cordon. They included increased truck searches on East River crossings and banning trucks from the Brooklyn Bridge.
The department will also increase the use of radiation detectors, and detectives from the department's Intelligence Division will check parking lots and garages in Manhattan and in other areas of the city.
Reporting for this article was contributed by David Johnston, Eric Lipton and Eric Lichtblau, in Washington, and Sewell Chan, Kareem Fahim and Timothy Williams, in New York.
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
Bilderberg Conference 2005, 5-8 May, Rottach-Egern, Munich, Germany
Bilderberg Conference 2005, 5-8 May, Rottach-Egern, Munich, Germany
Blogger Thoughts: Not sure what this means....
Blogger Thoughts: Not sure what this means....
Cold Fury » Man bites dog!
Cold Fury » Man bites dog!
Blogger Thoughts: So called conservatives, right wingers, sad tools of corruption are arguing about which parts of the deception are the lies!
Blogger Thoughts: So called conservatives, right wingers, sad tools of corruption are arguing about which parts of the deception are the lies!
Majikthise : Changing minds
Majikthise : Changing minds: " I am sure I've changed more minds with spurious arguments than with sound ones"
Blogger Thoughts: Sad, but true....
Blogger Thoughts: Sad, but true....
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