Saturday, June 24, 2006

1.: Bloglines - Judge: Case Against Padilla "Very Light on Facts"

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:16 am (PST)

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[t r u t h o u t] <http://truthout.org> t r u t
h o u t <http://truthout.org/docs_2005/defaultrss.shtml>
t r u t h o u t | News, politics Judge:
Case Against Padilla "Very Light on Facts"
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/TRUTHOUT?m=2795>
A federal judge ordered prosecutors to turn over more evidence to
back up allegations that Jose Padilla and two co-defendants
conspired to kill, injure or kidnap people overseas as part of a
global Islamic terrorist network.

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2a.: Re: Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: A Question of Trust

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:16 am (PST)

Maybe you had this before? "...but given the massive resources the US
has poured into this massive psychops"

http://www.prwatch.org/node/4891

At Least the Lies Have Improved

Pundit Andrew Sullivan, who supported the war in Iraq but has lately
begun to notice that he may have been mistaken, is nevertheless clinging
to hope that the debacle can be salvaged. Yesterday he posted the
following observations, from "a source of mine whom I've learned to
trust as an honest observer," about the recent killing of terrorist Abu
Musab al-Zarqawi:

"I am impressed with Casey, Khalilzad and the new Iraqi PM. ... As for
Zarqawi, they all recognize the essential silliness of portraying him as
the embodiment of the opposition, but given the resources the US has
poured into this massive psyops, their feeling is: why not get a little
boost out of it themselves? Hence the claim that it's the end of al
Qaeda in Iraq, and the out-of-perspective presentation of al Qaeda's
role in the insurgency. ... So: misleading, but very sound politics."
>
>
>
<http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/06/a_question_of_t.html?promoid=r\
ss_daily_dish>
>
> Spoken by a former Bush and Iraq War supporter:
>
> "This shallow, monstrous, weak, and petty man is still the president.
God help us."
>
> Read the post to understand the reason for the explosion of disgust.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
>

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2b.: Re: Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: A Question of Trust

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:34 am (PST)

You know, I am an admirer of much of Andrew Sullivan's writings. He is an authentic libertarian and tough-minded independent thinker in many departments. But on the subject of Israel and the Iraq War he is weak-minded -- that is the least pejorative term I can come up with at the moment.

There was never the least chance that an American invasion and occupation of Iraq could be anything but a disaster -- any Mideast expert whose mind wasn't distorted by an Israeli agenda easily understood that and could quickly tick off all the reasons why this is so. Sullivan occasionally understands this, but then his mind lapses back into fantasyland noodlings about how, gee, maybe this whole project really could have a happy ending if we just hang in there a few more months. He will eventually look back upon these episodes with shame and disbelief.

Sullivan is eloquent upon the subject of Muslim and, lately, Christian fundamentalism (which he has dubbed Christianism), but his mind is unable to discern the similarities among all branches of monotheistic fundamentalism. Jewish and Zionist fundamentalism are at least as great a threat to the world as Muslim and Christian fundamentalism. All of these branches of fundamentalism feed on conflict with and hatred of the others. All of them individually and in combination threaten the survival of the human race. Jewish and Christian fundamentalists are more excited about instigating Armageddon than Muslim fundamentalists, and they are much better armed with weapons of mass destruction. Sullivan manages to miss all this.

LeaNder <l.l.hahn@web.de> wrote:
Maybe you had this before? "...but given the massive resources the US has poured into this massive psychops"

http://www.prwatch.org/node/4891

At Least the Lies Have Improved

Pundit Andrew Sullivan, who supported the war in Iraq but has lately begun to notice that he may have been mistaken, is nevertheless clinging to hope that the debacle can be salvaged. Yesterday he posted the following observations, from "a source of mine whom I've learned to trust as an honest observer," about the recent killing of terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi:

"I am impressed with Casey, Khalilzad and the new Iraqi PM. ... As for Zarqawi, they all recognize the essential silliness of portraying him as the embodiment of the opposition, but given the resources the US has poured into this massive psyops, their feeling is: why not get a little boost out of it themselves? Hence the claim that it's the end of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the out-of-perspective presentation of al Qaeda's role in the insurgency. ... So: misleading, but very sound politics."
>
>
> <http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/06/a_question_of_t.html?promoid=rss_daily_dish>
>
> Spoken by a former Bush and Iraq War supporter:
>
> "This shallow, monstrous, weak, and petty man is still the president. God help us."
>
> Read the post to understand the reason for the explosion of disgust.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
>

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2c.: Re: Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: A Question of Trust

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:14 am (PST)

As you know by now, I can understand his difficulties. I loved Zunes
discussion of the Walt/Mearsheimer. Do you know it?:

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/3270

I guess your perspective would be close to Dan Lieberman in the
interesting discussion that follows Zunes paper. Also link below(or
in print preview from page 15 onwards under the above link):

http://www.alternativeinsight.com/Indefensible_Defense_of_Israel_Lobby.html

One of the books, I am reading at the moment is a print edition of a
former magazine discussion of facism: "Facism Past and Present, West
and East." All the articles by English and German scholars react on
and debate an attempt at defining a "fascist minimum" as the "ideology
of national rebirth (palingenesis)"; by Roger Griffin.

It's quite interesting actually; maybe someone should do something
concerning the Walt/Mearsheimer debate.

but I'll store your critique of Sullivan.

-b

>
> You know, I am an admirer of much of Andrew Sullivan's writings. He
is an authentic libertarian and tough-minded independent thinker in
many departments. But on the subject of Israel and the Iraq War he is
weak-minded -- that is the least pejorative term I can come up with at
the moment.
>
> There was never the least chance that an American invasion and
occupation of Iraq could be anything but a disaster -- any Mideast
expert whose mind wasn't distorted by an Israeli agenda easily
understood that and could quickly tick off all the reasons why this is
so. Sullivan occasionally understands this, but then his mind lapses
back into fantasyland noodlings about how, gee, maybe this whole
project really could have a happy ending if we just hang in there a
few more months. He will eventually look back upon these episodes
with shame and disbelief.
>
> Sullivan is eloquent upon the subject of Muslim and, lately,
Christian fundamentalism (which he has dubbed Christianism), but his
mind is unable to discern the similarities among all branches of
monotheistic fundamentalism. Jewish and Zionist fundamentalism are at
least as great a threat to the world as Muslim and Christian
fundamentalism. All of these branches of fundamentalism feed on
conflict with and hatred of the others. All of them individually and
in combination threaten the survival of the human race. Jewish and
Christian fundamentalists are more excited about instigating
Armageddon than Muslim fundamentalists, and they are much better armed
with weapons of mass destruction. Sullivan manages to miss all this.
>
>
> LeaNder <l.l.hahn@...> wrote:
> Maybe you had this before? "...but given the massive
resources the US has poured into this massive psychops"
>
> http://www.prwatch.org/node/4891
>
> At Least the Lies Have Improved
>
> Pundit Andrew Sullivan, who supported the war in Iraq but has lately
begun to notice that he may have been mistaken, is nevertheless
clinging to hope that the debacle can be salvaged. Yesterday he posted
the following observations, from "a source of mine whom I've learned
to trust as an honest observer," about the recent killing of terrorist
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi:
>
> "I am impressed with Casey, Khalilzad and the new Iraqi PM. ... As
for Zarqawi, they all recognize the essential silliness of portraying
him as the embodiment of the opposition, but given the resources the
US has poured into this massive psyops, their feeling is: why not get
a little boost out of it themselves? Hence the claim that it's the end
of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the out-of-perspective presentation of al
Qaeda's role in the insurgency. ... So: misleading, but very sound
politics."
> >
> >
> >
<http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/06/a_question_of_t.html?promoid=rss_daily_dish>
> >
> > Spoken by a former Bush and Iraq War supporter:
> >
> > "This shallow, monstrous, weak, and petty man is still the
president. God help us."
> >
> > Read the post to understand the reason for the explosion of disgust.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
__________________________________________________________
> > Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
> >
>

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2d.: Re: Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: A Question of Trust

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:53 pm (PST)

>
> but I'll store your critique of Sullivan.
>
> -b

"mentally". at least try.

Why don't we use the links or database section for a couple of useful
articles concerning IT?

-b

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3a.: Re: Data mining methods revealed (re: the name Yontef)

Posted by: "better_off_said" better_off_said@yahoo.com better_off_said

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:17 am (PST)

I did a search for the name and there was a Robert Yontef connected
to that whole, Cipel/McGreevey scandal. I'm sure that's
why the name sounded so familiar. Not sure of any connection
with this Michele Yontef, though… she M'sad, too?

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, "better_off_said"
<better_off_said@...> wrote:
>
> "Rapp described what steps he would use, for example, to locate
and
> steal the credit-card records..."
>
> [...]
>
> "Brokers have tricked telephone carriers into disclosing private
> customer information and broken into online accounts..."
>
> These "data brokers" are nothing more than identity thieves. It's
> disgusting that they'd be treated as a legitimate business by law
> enforcement agencies.
>
> If their methods for obtaining information were legal, then they
> wouldn't have to "trick" anyone to get it-- it'd be PUBLIC.
Surely
> there are laws against obtaining PRIVATE customer information
> (otherwise companies should refer to it as "open customer
> information")?
>
> P.S. Should the name Yontef ring a bell?
>
> --- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
> <smcbride2@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
>
<http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/06/22/data_m
> ining_methods_revealed/>
> >
> > Excerpt:
> >
> > Even as others cited the Fifth Amendment, a former data broker
> enthralled Congress yesterday with a behind-the-scenes lesson on
how
> this shadowy industry covertly gathers Americans' telephone
records
> without subpoenas or warrants.
> >
> > Some lawmakers gasped and others shook their heads in amazement
> during testimony from James Rapp, a former data broker run out of
> the business years ago by Colorado police.
> >
> > Others identified as active data brokers refused to answer
> questions about how they conduct business, invoking their
> constitutional rights against saying anything under oath that
might
> be used by prosecutors.
> >
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________________
> ___
> > Save and share anything you find online - Furl @
> http://www.furl.net
> >
>

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3b.: Re: Data mining methods revealed (re: the name Yontef)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:53 am (PST)

Side point: Mossad has no need to use social engineering to trick information out of information brokers and other companies in the United States, when it exerts control at the top of many companies and has friends inside every major company, organization and government agency who will gladly hand over sensitive data willingly. Mossad has "friends" -- people who are highly excited about the Israeli interest -- deep inside Cingular, Verizon, AT&T, the FBI, Google, AOL, Amazon, Yahoo, Harvard, the NYPD -- you name the organization. I have not the least doubt that Mossad can quickly assemble all the private records on any individual from all these organizations.

Israel and high-level academic friends of Israel in the West have played a leading role -- some would say *the* leading role -- in pioneering the field of data mining, especially cutting-edge intelligence-oriented data mining. The average American has no comprehension of what this is all about. You might as well be speaking Greek to them. Duh. Fleecing them is a walk in the park. I increasingly wonder whether the average American gets anything anymore. They are too busy watching television and passively being herded this way and that by their billionaire masters of reality to exercise any brain cells.

Now, are the Israelis to blame because they are much smarter than many of the folks they deal with, including very many Americans? I don't think so. Look at all those dumb faces on Fox News. Beasts of burden. Perfect marks. Eminently usable and disposable.

better_off_said <better_off_said@yahoo.com> wrote:
I did a search for the name and there was a Robert Yontef connected
to that whole, Cipel/McGreevey scandal. I'm sure that's
why the name sounded so familiar. Not sure of any connection
with this Michele Yontef, though… she M'sad, too?

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, "better_off_said"
<better_off_said@...> wrote:
>
> "Rapp described what steps he would use, for example, to locate
and
> steal the credit-card records..."
>
> [...]
>
> "Brokers have tricked telephone carriers into disclosing private
> customer information and broken into online accounts..."
>
> These "data brokers" are nothing more than identity thieves. It's
> disgusting that they'd be treated as a legitimate business by law
> enforcement agencies.
>
> If their methods for obtaining information were legal, then they
> wouldn't have to "trick" anyone to get it-- it'd be PUBLIC.
Surely
> there are laws against obtaining PRIVATE customer information
> (otherwise companies should refer to it as "open customer
> information")?
>
> P.S. Should the name Yontef ring a bell?
>
> --- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
> <smcbride2@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
>
<http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/06/22/data_m
> ining_methods_revealed/>
> >
> > Excerpt:
> >
> > Even as others cited the Fifth Amendment, a former data broker
> enthralled Congress yesterday with a behind-the-scenes lesson on
how
> this shadowy industry covertly gathers Americans' telephone
records
> without subpoenas or warrants.
> >
> > Some lawmakers gasped and others shook their heads in amazement
> during testimony from James Rapp, a former data broker run out of
> the business years ago by Colorado police.
> >
> > Others identified as active data brokers refused to answer
> questions about how they conduct business, invoking their
> constitutional rights against saying anything under oath that
might
> be used by prosecutors.
> >
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________________
> ___
> > Save and share anything you find online - Furl @
> http://www.furl.net
> >
>

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4.: Earth hottest it's been in 2,000 years

Posted by: "better_off_said" better_off_said@yahoo.com better_off_said

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:19 am (PST)

So why did they change this headline from 400 to 2,000 years? That's
a big leap. The National Academy of Sciences a bunch'a drama queens
or what?

Earth hottest it's been in 2,000 years
By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 12 minutes ago

The Earth is running a slight fever from greenhouse gases, after
enjoying relatively stable temperatures for 2,000 years. The
National Academy of Sciences, after reconstructing global average
surface temperatures for the past two millennia, said Thursday the
data are "additional supporting evidence ... that human activities
are responsible for much of the recent warming."

Other new research showed that global warming produced about half of
the extra hurricane-fueled warmth in the North Atlantic in 2005, and
natural cycles were a minor factor, according to Kevin Trenberth and
Dennis Shea of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, a
research lab sponsored by the National Science Foundation and
universities.

The academy had been asked to report to Congress on how researchers
drew conclusions about the Earth's climate going back thousands of
years, before data was available from modern scientific instruments.
The academy convened a panel of 12 climate experts, chaired by
Gerald North, a geosciences professor at Texas A&M University, to
look at the "proxy" evidence before then, such as tree rings,
corals, marine and lake sediments, ice cores, boreholes and glaciers.

Combining that information gave the panel "a high level of
confidence that the last few decades of the 20th century were warmer
than any comparable period in the last 400 years," the panel wrote.
It said the "recent warmth is unprecedented for at least the last
400 years and potentially the last several millennia," though it was
relatively warm around the year 1000 followed by a "Little Ice Age"
from about 1500 to 1850.

Their conclusions were meant to address, and they lent credibility
to, a well-known graphic among climate researchers — a "hockey-
stick" chart that climate scientists Michael Mann, Raymond Bradley
and Malcolm Hughes created in the late 1990s to show the Northern
Hemisphere was the warmest it has been in 2,000 years.

It had compared the sharp curve of the hockey blade to the recent
uptick in temperatures — a 1 degree rise in global average surface
temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere during the 20th century —
and the stick's long shaft to centuries of previous climate
stability.

That research is "likely" true and is supported by more recent data,
said John "Mike" Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the
University of Washington and a panel member.

Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (news, bio, voting record), R-N.Y., chairman
of the House Science Committee, had asked the academy for the report
last year after the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman,
Rep. Joe Barton (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas, launched an
investigation of the three climate scientists.

The Bush administration has maintained that the threat from global
warming is not severe enough to warrant new pollution controls that
the White House says would have cost 5 million Americans their jobs.

"This report shows the value of Congress handling scientific
disputes by asking scientists to give us guidance," Boehlert said
Thursday. "There is nothing in this report that should raise any
doubts about the broad scientific consensus on global climate
change."

The academy panel said it had less confidence in the evidence of
temperatures before 1600.

But it considered the evidence reliable enough to conclude there
were sharp spikes in carbon dioxide and methane, the two
major "greenhouse" gases blamed for trapping heat in the atmosphere,
beginning in the 20th century, after remaining fairly level for
12,000 years.

Between 1 A.D. and 1850, volcanic eruptions and solar fluctuations
had the biggest effects on climate. But those temperature
changes "were much less pronounced than the warming due to
greenhouse gas" levels by pollution since the mid-19th century, the
panel said.

The National Academy of Sciences is a private organization chartered
by Congress to advise the government of scientific matters.

___

On the Net:

National Academy of Sciences: http://nationalacademies.org

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5.: Store It on the Web

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:17 am (PST)

<http://www.pcworld.com/resource/printable/article/0,aid,125729,00.asp#>

All your important files--text documents, spreadsheets, music and videos, you name it--may start out sitting safe and snug on your PC's hard drive. But what if the drive goes belly up, or runs out of room? And what if you'd like an easy way to share those files with coworkers or friends? Web-based storage services let you back up your data, store your files on a Web server, or share them quickly and simply with anyone, often at no cost. Of the 17 services we tried, our favorite backup service is IBackup, while the GoDaddy Online File Folder is our pick of the storage sites. And for sharing files, we like the free 4shared.com service.

__________________________________________________________
Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net

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6.: Fwd: Re: [political-research] Bloglines - Bush's Real Response to th

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:10 am (PST)

Vigilius Haufniensis <nerdmann@earthlink.net> wrote: From: "Vigilius Haufniensis" <nerdmann@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [political-research] Bloglines - Bush's Real Response to the August 6th PDB
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:12:41 -0500

lol, yeah, thats the number of the memorandumb bush signed two months before 911, to FBI and DEFENSE INTEL telling them that if they moved on any of the bin ladins, they themselves would be arrested and charged with treason. john o'neill quit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/attack22.ram

----- Original Message -----
To: Vigilius Haufniensis
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [political-research] Bloglines - Bush's Real Response to the August 6th PDB

This is your message text again:

W199(EYE)

---------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006

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7.: [Fwd: [Fwd: More on the ultimate hoax job]]

Posted by: "The Webfairy" webfairy@thewebfairy.com the_webfairy

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:53 pm (PST)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [911InsideJobbers] [Fwd: More on the ultimate hoax job]
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:48:51 -0500
From: The Webfairy <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: More on the ultimate hoax job
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:52:14 -0500
From: The Webfairy <webfairy@thewebfairy.com>

Kyle F. Hence wrote:
> Before I offer my take on this photo evidence offered by Izzy or
> malaprop let me say I realize I am coming late to a discussion and
> review on this issue. I have been busy and working hard to stay
> focused in order to finish a documentary I've worked over the past
> year and a half. Also, there just seems to me to be a never-ending
> stream of conspiracy theories of the week or month and I've not had
> the time to examine them properly. Pods, military planes, missiles,
> now "no planes."

The No Planes evidence is not "new."
I discovered there was no plane in the first hit footage within three
days of the release of Hunt the Boeing.
This was taken as a joke, but I was serious.
This precedes all other excuses and scenarios except the standdown,
which now makes sense in light of the fact that military planes do not
scramble for Chunks of PR fiction or for cartoons.

There still is no plane in the first hit footage.
http://missilegate.com
Unimpeachable Forensic Quality 1/60th of a second apart, both created by
me, and my earstwhile debunker, Salters
http://missilegate.com/indexx.htm
Not even the Salter version can manage to show a plane. This may be why
he/they/it slunk off in despair.
http://www.911closeup.com/index.shtml?ID=80

My first backup came when Gerard Holmgren discovered the Bureau of
Transportation Safety database, a listing of all domestic flights, had
no listings for Flights 77 and 11.
http://iinet.net.au/~holmgren/1177.html
To not be listed in the BTS, a flight would have to be cancelled at
least a week in advance. Else it would say cancelled, crashed, or whatever.
The database disappeared for a while, and when it returned, the flights
were listed, but they didn't take off. The last I heard, now they take
off, but it's from heliports.

> For the purposes of this email let's just put aside the anecdotal
> evidence from a variety of quarters since I have not cataloged or
> sourced them and they are all after all just anecdotal. They are just
> from memory and include the question of the eyewitness reports of 3
> black boxes being recovered, the wheel/tire that flew out of a corner
> of the first tower when it was hit, eyewitness accounts who watched a
> plane approach the south tower, pictures of other debris found at the
> site, etc.
The supposed eyewitnesses to the black box recovery were subsequently
indicted for looting Ground Zero. This is a story that got trotted out
in time for Jimmy Walter's first conference, but the contents of those
alleged boxes has never been revealed.

http://911foreknowledge.com/debris
examines Spooker Corners and the alleged debris found there.
Since this wheel managed to "land" beneath a construction canopy and the
underlying business canopy without making any hole in it, and the dented
sign is not in any possible trajectory, this is phoney planted mystery
debris, some of which can be seen preplanted in the Brave New World
sequence opening the Naudet DVD.
http://911foreknowledge.com/bravenewworld.htm
This is reaction shots to the first explosions. Since Church and Murray
is generally a busy intersection, it shows that the streets had already
been blocked off in anticipation of the days fireworks.

> First I would like to challenge those who subscribe to this 'no plane'
> theory and who first discovered these videos, etc. to establish
> credibility to their claims by producing documentation as to chain of
> custody of the videos used to make the case that no planes were used.
> I'm not holding my breath. It's a tall order and probably impossible.
> Very unlike the video offered by Richard Siegel. Good reporting,
> true investigative reporting must have good sources that have proven
> themselves by getting it right consistently.
The videos are documented by 911 Chronology Source
http://www.archive.org/details/911-Chronology-Source
and Tim Canale's 8 hours of live coverage
http://maebrussell.com

Any one with Virtualdub and the Virtualdub Zoom filter can make slow
motion enlargements freshly.
Video snippets of 911 are sprinkled throughout the web even 5 years
later, collected by hundreds of anonymous people who tivo'd the defining
event of our time.
All the videos shown to us on TV show the same preposterousness.

There are late appearing "videos" that turn out to be cartoons, such as
the SkyShark http://fooledagainon911.com
and Saltergate http://thewebfairy.com/911/saltergate which have no
provinance in the live coverage.

>
> Given that it is highly unlikely to prove chain of custody for much of
> this evidence after so many years I would argue that credibility and
> soundness of any theory or presentation of evidence is flimsy at best
> and at worst grossly irresponsible and reckless feeding into the worst
> of stereotypes people have of 'crazy conspiracy buffs', etc.. Don't
> get me wrong. I'm one who believes that the truth is often stranger
> than fiction so I approach things with an open mind but in this case,
> after consideration, I'm must express serious concern and once again
> push for a much higher standard of what can be constituted as
> /evidence /(circumstantial or otherwise) as we present a case that
> someone inside the government had a hand in the attacks.
My case is not that "someone inside the government'" had a hand in the
attacks.
My case is that the Mainstream Media (and much of the allegely
alternative media) is owned by defense contractors,bought up with washed
funds from international drugrunning.
911 was presented to us as a scripted Reality TV show, with the intent
of Shock and Awe trauma conditioning, and laying the excuses for martial
law and perpetual war.

> Again, Richard's 911eyewitness video was in a safe deposit box for
> years and he has 1010 WINS radio playing in real time through the
> course of the collapses as his camera rolls tape. Entirely different
> case, right? So I would hope that Richard and all of us, especially
> Richard, can see the stark difference between his video evidence of
> collapses and that offered as proof for 'no planes'. I thought that
> Richard's video of the explosions before collapse showing clouds of
> dust at street level were so compelling I brought them to ABC News
> producer Rebecca Abrahams in an effort to get her to do a feature on
> the evidence for controlled demolition. I did so because I had a high
> degree of confidence in the chain of custody backed up by safe deposit
> box records and the plain circumstances of the video recording.
When 1010 WINS radio switches to the CNN feed, the delay of the "live"
broadcast becomes evident.
As the building begins to tumble, CNN blithely chatters on for a length
of time that would be measurable. I am presuming the delay is the exact
amount required by the WESCAM military helicopter video system.

Rick Siegel didn't see any planes. He knew thousands of people in New
York and they didn't see any planes either, even if they believed in planes.
Multiple explosions from ground level are shown, and so are a profusion
of helicopters which create flashes just as the building starts to
evaporate.

>
> Next issue. Many of those who advance this theory, based on blurry
> video from unknown sources, appear to subscribe to the notion that
> whoever pulled this off had full control of the cameras shooting the
> towers in real time or gained control after the fact or both. I would
> then ask, assuming for a moment they are correct, that if such parties
> had such extreme and total control of the footage (and ability to
> manipulate same) would they not also have the ability to fabricate all
> manner of images so as to create a false trail of evidence just to
> throw a fantastic monkey wrench into the mix of those who might call
> into question what happened after the fact.
An enlarged closeup is SUPPOSED TO BE BLURRY.
Enlarging cannot increase the resolution, it can only make the existing
resolution look bigger.
If it magically looked "clear" like supposed passenger jets spewing
chemtrails, then we could know it was fake.

There is no method or software that I know of or have read about as
secret even which can take an existing big ole boeing jet, it's
associated noise and tremendous fireball crash and remove it from
footage in real time, while substituting a hippityhopper toy plane on a
preposterous course.
http://thewebfairy.com/911/haarp/reporter.didnt.see.plane.htm
It was the Krash Kartoon
http://thewebfairy.com/911/krash (below later cartoon)
that the newsbunny in the studio was watching.

>
> Again, those who are pushing these theories and so-called photo or
> video evidence cannot deny the /possibility/ of a false trail planted
> by the perps because they believe a theory that put the perps in total
> control of most of the video taping at the moment of the attacks and
> after the fact as well as required. In other words, they cannot deny
> the possibility that those they subscribe a deception in the 9/11
> attacks themselves also created a hoax to further the psyop, in this
> case of those who might see beyond the larger deception.
Yeah, they created a deception. The second hit is a parade of TV Fakery
with "planes' who's flightpaths have more to do with artistic
convenience than with geography.
http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2006/06/2nd-hit-video-anomalies-sloppiness.html
They DID "create a hoax to further the psyop, in this case of those who
might see beyond the larger deception"
This is our point.

> And for Nico who no doubt will attack me and will quote WingTV who
> quoted me out of context when I said that "the American people can't
> handle the truth." let me just say that I was simply observing the
> fact (in a private conversation), true to this day, that for many, no
> matter how compelling the evidence, even proof (as in a lie proven by
> juxtaposition of official public statements and plain facts), there is
> denial or, or in other words, in inability to 'handle the truth', to
> accept what is plain to someone not living with blinders on. Now I am
> first to admit I had blinders on relative to the twin tower's
> collapse, and waited cautiously until scientists examined the
> evidence. Not the case for me with WTC 7. But now having seen
> Steven's presentation about thermite I believe there is a strong case
> for controlled demolition and very viable explanation for hot molten
> metal several stories below street level even weeks after the
> collapse; a more likely explanation than nuclear detonation.
The American people have to learn to handle the truth.
Or die.
I am tired of dragging lemmings back from the cliffs.
I want to just stand back and say "JUMP, JUMP," and let the IQ of the
universe be raised by their demise, but that leaves good people just as
dead as the fools.
So I tie a knot in the end of my rope and hold on.

> No doubt we've all been played when it comes to 9/11. Those who
> advance this 'no plane' theory cannot for a second with a straight
> face claim that it's impossible for the perps to have engineered an
> elaborate false trail because they place the perps in the position to
> do so presumably with the know-how and technology to do so.
Your hangout violates the rule of Occam's Razor.
Too many unnecessary convolutions.
The video is fake because it was prepared as audio-visual aids i for the
various wargames/terror drills "coincidentally" scheduled for that very day.
Innocents involved in the production were scripted to be aboard Flights
11 and 77 which didn't exist except as a ruse to eliminate witnesses.
Surviving video artists had to go along with the plot for their own
good, and are still busy producing fake videos using the same techniques,
http://thewebfairy.com/911/saltergate
and newer virtual reality techniques as is seen in the planeless new
pentagon fakes.

> Furthermore to believe this theory, you'd have to discount what is
> clearly a possibility as well as discount the anecdotal evidence from
> eyewitnesses and claim that photos and video at street level showing
> aircraft wreckage (I remember that tire) were planted.
This is a typical "eyewitness."
http://thewebfairy.com/911/curtainchewer
I have a whole liars club with witnesses who could tell Osama did it,
giving their little snippets of plotline development.
Then I have an authentic witness getting brushed off
http://thewebfairy.com/911/911/debris/itsabomb.htm
by the same reporter who seems to have advance knowledge that building 7
is going to come down:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/video/canale/18_1-7.will.collapse.mpg

> As I said recently in an email to Rosalee, here one has to go so far
> down the rabbit hole that one has no idea which way is up. And that
> may have been exactly the intention. Finally, there will be some who
> will say that since it's me, the target of so much suspicion, who is
> challenging the 'no planes' theory then it must be true. To those
> folks I say, just look to my simple points and consider them on their
> face.
I want to believe you are just a typical representative schnookie of the
sort that has to be won over if we are going to have any hope of saving
our planet from the liars and their singular power which is the power of
lies.

> Now back to my focus of getting my film done. I hope to reach American
> and people around the world with a very simple story that will begin
> to open their minds and hearts to a horrific deception and cover up
> that is 9.11. Trailer and viral video featuring Coulter's comments
> coming soon if all goes as planned and hoped.
Here Hence speaks of his film, but when I challenged him to turn the
Naudet 911 first hit into frames for himself, he said he didn't have
video skills.
I suppose there are aspects of filmmaking that do not require video
skills, so I'd like to expand my offer/plea to anyone who does have or
is willing to learn the video skill to use VirtualDub and the Virtualdub
Zoom filter to replicate my work. It is the ultimate proof when one can
see for oneself, all excuses aside.

>
> Kyle
>
>
> malaprop wrote:
>> When perpetrators of a hoax are caught switching photo evidence.
>>
>> Some errors are too great to leave on the loose to wreak havoc and
>> must be replaced. I.e.hoaxers replacing authentic pictures of
>> Saddam, with photos of his stand-in at official events, to imprint a
>> new Saddam in our memories. Embarrassing and impossible film Apollo
>> photos were quietly replaced with the new digital, photoshopped
>> substitutes, with errors corrected.
>> The amount of evidence is so overwhelming, that simpler is
>> better--you only need one fake passenger, one fake 'plane' etc....to
>> make your case of a hoax.
>>
>> This is one such embarrassment------an extreme blow up of an actual
>> CNN screen capture shortly after WTC2 was attacked. The 'crawl' on
>> the bottom of the screen reassures us it was on 9/11, and not days,
>> weeks later that this was shown. This was fresh off the grill--well,
>> minus perhaps a 10 second viewing-delay.
>>
>> What is wrong with this? What was in this footage that forced this
>> clips removal and substitution after I had posted it all over the net?
>>
>> EXTREME BROOKLIN HEIGTHS WTC2, GREEN SPIRE.
>> http://www.gallerize.com/Videos/CNN_Brooklyn_Heights.swf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> CNN screen of green tower-no impact
>> http://thewebfairy.com/911/2hit/newjetcrash.htm (Thanks for saving, WF)
>>
>> Notice in the screen capture the position of the two green spires,
>> pretty much equidistant from the sides of the wtc towers. (there's
>> a story behind this footage, totally unbelievable of course, that
>> includes a guy with a hand-held mega-zoom camera inside an office, as
>> opposed to the likely use of a dolly, crane outside.)
>> The problem, of course is in the wedge--formed by the right side of
>> the green spire and the corner of the wtc2--no trace of a plane, let
>> alone an explosion, flying debris that would result from behind that
>> spire, as impacts are extremely violent. Come to think of
>> it--there's no trace of a missile, either in that wedge.
>>
>> So the perpetrators went to work and came up with a shiny new version
>> that took care of the tell-tale 'wedge, and took care of the mushy
>> plane with the drooping engine, with a much more
>> anatomicially-correct plane, and placed it on the hereisnewyork.com
>> site, and the new version credited with Aaron Taub, the sites' owner,
>> who has degrees in video work..
>> Researcher/writers, unaware, like this new revised forgery so much
>> better they are using it, even examining it, and pod people have the
>> pretty plane to search for a pod, even if it was some 4 years in
>> arriving. [Why the "pod" appears on one plane but not others, might
>> be explained by that not all of the forgers were whistleblowers.]
>>
>>
>> How they did it was to get rid of the wedge, by moving the 4 bldgs in
>> front over to the right (note the two green spires.) A little error
>> there---notice the spired tower to the far right--they moved that
>> over even more to make it look more symetrical, revealling a column
>> of windows that wasn't visible before.
>>
>> http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/2087.jpg
>>
>> Now for WTC1 the 'shot' that they were the only ones to get---
>>
>> I cannot improve on this slide show [Bravo! nineeleven2001] and it's
>> captions, that could not be 'planer' by any further comment--except
>> this: keep in mind all the clips have the same contrast and are
>> consistent with one another, yet keep an eye at what happens to the
>> shadows of the object: Read his captions.
>>
>> http://www.angelfire.com/comics/nineeleven2001/aa11/aa11-en.html
>>
>> Conclusion: I am totally convinced that no planes were used in the 4
>> attacks on 9/11 other than virtual ones. What we see may have been
>> masks used to conceal missiles, or on the other hand, covers for
>> planted explosives.
>>
>>
>> One last one:
>>
>> http://www.gallerize.com/Videos/CNN_Best_Angle.swf
>>
>> No interaction with the bldg.--
>> no deceleration--
>> no breakup, no flying parts
>> no crumpling
>> no "gash" hole appearing until plane is inside.
>>
>> -------
>>
>> Same for this one, only more so!
>> http://www.gallerize.com/Videos/Spiegel_TV.swf
>> no deceleration
>> no reaction to hitting a bldg.!
>> no hole --largely absent!
>>
>>
>> malaprop aka izzy

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8.: Discussion about 09/11/2001: 911podcasts.com presents Full Clip

Posted by: "bill giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:54 pm (PST)

bill giltner has sent you a link to a weblog:

Norman Mineta announces departure.

Blog: Discussion about 09/11/2001
Post: 911podcasts.com presents Full Clip
Link: http://bgtruth.blogspot.com/2006/06/911podcastscom-presents-full-clip.html

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9.: Report: Abramoff used Norquist to distribute funds

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:54 pm (PST)

Report: Abramoff used Norquist to distribute funds
*http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/23/lobbyist.probe.ap/index.html*<http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/23/lobbyist.probe.ap/index.html>

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10a.: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:57 pm (PST)

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954>

The long-awaited arrival of Alex Jones' latest trend-setting documentary has arrived! TerrorStorm delivers a powerful sucker punch to the architects of global terrorism and how they stage false-flag events to achieve political and sociological ends.

__________________________________________________________
Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net

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10b.: Re: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:05 pm (PST)

I'm not sure that this is the place to express some thoughts only
partially related to AJ, but this is what's on my mind:

I think AJ is hurting the cause to get out the truth. I think Eric
Hufschmid is hurting the cause of truth. I think Jack Blood is
hurting the cause of truth.

I admit that my mind is somewhat influenced by the way Jones has
treated Wingtv.net, and wingtv's points criticism of GCN.

Without going on a tangent, here's my specific gripe with Terror Storm.

In discussing the crime of 9/11, when one starts adding more and more
history lessons, more and more charges that this is all part of the
NWO, I submit that all the hype of history, conspiracy, and grand
schemes tends to push people away from opening their eyes to the basic
need to deal with 9/11.

This is especially true for those people who are not familiar with
books such as David Ray Griffin's.

It's a free country, and I'm not saying anybody (of the names
mentioned above) is intentionally saboteuring.

In additional I believe the the new film that is being so highly
touted "From Freedom to Fascism" is also a distraction from the cause
of getting questions about 9/11 treated as the most urgent activity
that must happen in the US now.

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
<smcbride2@...> wrote:
>
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954>
>
> The long-awaited arrival of Alex Jones' latest trend-setting
documentary has arrived! TerrorStorm delivers a powerful sucker punch
to the architects of global terrorism and how they stage false-flag
events to achieve political and sociological ends.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
>

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10c.: Re: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:28 pm (PST)

My perspective: if 9/11 was in fact an inside job, probably the only way to break the case open is for at least two insiders to step forward with the truth, backed by evidence and documentation to support their stories. Until that happens, all the furious arguments among various schools of 9/11 skeptics and conspiracy theorists will spin their wheels, producing no meaningful effects on the political system.

As I recall, Stanley Hilton claimed at one time to have insider proof about what really happened on 9/11, but it never surfaced in public view.

I think it's useful that there are many points of view about what really happened on 9/11. I'm not attached to any particular point of view, because I simply don't know the truth. All I have are suspicions and guesswork, and suspicions and guesswork are often wrong.

I find it curious that a number of factions among competing groups of 9/11 conspiracy theorists spend more time and energy attacking one another than they do in going after the Bush administration: this is precisely the kind of situation that COINTELPRO ops are designed to create.

What I most worry about is what is the next major move the conspirators behind 9/11, no matter who they were, are going to make. Is 9/11 Part II in the works? Will it be used to censor on the Internet any further skeptical discussion about 9/11 Part I and hammer the final nail in the coffin of American democracy? If so, we will probably be helpless to stop the course of events.

No forward progress can be made in unraveling the truth about 9/11 until high-level players choose to act on their accord, and succeed in surviving after choosing to act. For the time being, the mainstream media have succeeded in keeping questions about 9/11 from derailing the Bush administration. They are smothering the story to death, depriving it of oxygen. They refuse to engage in discussion of any open questions about 9/11.

Bill Giltner <bill.giltner@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure that this is the place to express some thoughts only
partially related to AJ, but this is what's on my mind:

I think AJ is hurting the cause to get out the truth. I think Eric
Hufschmid is hurting the cause of truth. I think Jack Blood is
hurting the cause of truth.

I admit that my mind is somewhat influenced by the way Jones has
treated Wingtv.net, and wingtv's points criticism of GCN.

Without going on a tangent, here's my specific gripe with Terror Storm.

In discussing the crime of 9/11, when one starts adding more and more
history lessons, more and more charges that this is all part of the
NWO, I submit that all the hype of history, conspiracy, and grand
schemes tends to push people away from opening their eyes to the basic
need to deal with 9/11.

This is especially true for those people who are not familiar with
books such as David Ray Griffin's.

It's a free country, and I'm not saying anybody (of the names
mentioned above) is intentionally saboteuring.

In additional I believe the the new film that is being so highly
touted "From Freedom to Fascism" is also a distraction from the cause
of getting questions about 9/11 treated as the most urgent activity
that must happen in the US now.

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
<smcbride2@...> wrote:
>
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954>
>
> The long-awaited arrival of Alex Jones' latest trend-setting
documentary has arrived! TerrorStorm delivers a powerful sucker punch
to the architects of global terrorism and how they stage false-flag
events to achieve political and sociological ends.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
>

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10d.: Re: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

Posted by: "The Webfairy" webfairy@thewebfairy.com the_webfairy

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:30 pm (PST)

>
> In additional I believe the the new film that is being so highly
> touted "From Freedom to Fascism" is also a distraction from the cause
> of getting questions about 9/11 treated as the most urgent activity
> that must happen in the US now.
Freedom to Fascism does not mention 911 even once.
It doesn't have to.
911 Stands in the Background breathing heavy through every scene.

From Freedom to Fascism is a movie everybody can stand behind.
It's a deadly serious movie that makes you laugh.
If we can make it a number one hit, a movie sensation with people
camping out in line and lines around the block, if we can knock the Tom
Cruise or whoever Illuminati Message Movie of the Week out of the top
spot, we will have spoken in the only language Hollywood understands:
Boxoffice..

Bill Giltner wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that this is the place to express some thoughts only
> partially related to AJ, but this is what's on my mind:
>
> I think AJ is hurting the cause to get out the truth. I think Eric
> Hufschmid is hurting the cause of truth. I think Jack Blood is
> hurting the cause of truth.
>
> I admit that my mind is somewhat influenced by the way Jones has
> treated Wingtv.net, and wingtv's points criticism of GCN.
>
> Without going on a tangent, here's my specific gripe with Terror Storm.
>
> In discussing the crime of 9/11, when one starts adding more and more
> history lessons, more and more charges that this is all part of the
> NWO, I submit that all the hype of history, conspiracy, and grand
> schemes tends to push people away from opening their eyes to the basic
> need to deal with 9/11.
>
> This is especially true for those people who are not familiar with
> books such as David Ray Griffin's.
>
> It's a free country, and I'm not saying anybody (of the names
> mentioned above) is intentionally saboteuring.
>
> In additional I believe the the new film that is being so highly
> touted "From Freedom to Fascism" is also a distraction from the cause
> of getting questions about 9/11 treated as the most urgent activity
> that must happen in the US now.
>
> --- In political-research@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:political-research%40yahoogroups.com>, Sean McBride
> <smcbride2@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954>>
> >
> > The long-awaited arrival of Alex Jones' latest trend-setting
> documentary has arrived! TerrorStorm delivers a powerful sucker punch
> to the architects of global terrorism and how they stage false-flag
> events to achieve political and sociological ends.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
> <http://www.furl.net>
> >
>
>
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10e.: Re: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

Posted by: "Vigilius Haufniensis" nerdmann@earthlink.net concept_of_irony

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:23 am (PST)

my understanding of TERROR STORM is that it shows how false flag terror is normal operating procedure. how does that hurt the 911 truth movement?

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Giltner
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: [political-research] Re: Alex Jones' TerrorStorm Has Arrived!

I'm not sure that this is the place to express some thoughts only
partially related to AJ, but this is what's on my mind:

I think AJ is hurting the cause to get out the truth. I think Eric
Hufschmid is hurting the cause of truth. I think Jack Blood is
hurting the cause of truth.

I admit that my mind is somewhat influenced by the way Jones has
treated Wingtv.net, and wingtv's points criticism of GCN.

Without going on a tangent, here's my specific gripe with Terror Storm.

In discussing the crime of 9/11, when one starts adding more and more
history lessons, more and more charges that this is all part of the
NWO, I submit that all the hype of history, conspiracy, and grand
schemes tends to push people away from opening their eyes to the basic
need to deal with 9/11.

This is especially true for those people who are not familiar with
books such as David Ray Griffin's.

It's a free country, and I'm not saying anybody (of the names
mentioned above) is intentionally saboteuring.

In additional I believe the the new film that is being so highly
touted "From Freedom to Fascism" is also a distraction from the cause
of getting questions about 9/11 treated as the most urgent activity
that must happen in the US now.

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
<smcbride2@...> wrote:
>
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/954>
>
> The long-awaited arrival of Alex Jones' latest trend-setting
documentary has arrived! TerrorStorm delivers a powerful sucker punch
to the architects of global terrorism and how they stage false-flag
events to achieve political and sociological ends.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net
>

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11.: PCWorld.com - Web News Wranglers

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:00 pm (PST)

<http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,126113,pg,1,00.asp>

So much news on the Web, so little time to read it all. These tools and sites can help make you an incredibly well-informed person--in a hurry.

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12.: John & Steve (Mearsheimer & Walt): Let the Good Times Rol

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:04 pm (PST)

<http://mondoweiss.observer.com/2006/06/john-steve-mearsheimer-walt-let-the-good-times-roll.html>

The authors of the bombshell critique of the Israel lobby showed up two days ago on the Diane Rehm Show and I hear they're on C-Span, too. And they're on the cover of Foreign Policy.

Diane Rehm was their first broadcast appearance. Stephen Walt says they waited three months because they wanted the paper to be absorbed first as ideas, without having the discussion personalized to "John and Steve, rather than what we wrote." Enough time has passed. "Now it's time for us to start talking more openly about it."

Just one statement the authors made the other day. Responding to Dennis Ross's assertion that it's fine that these issues are discussed, they should be debated, Mearsheimer pointed out that the paper couldn't be published in the U.S. mainstream media, and Walt pointed out that they've paid a price for bringing this up. Just about every friend who has talked to him about the paper has said, "You're never going to work in Washington." It wasn't Walt's lifetime ambition to work in Washington, he said, and he isn't complaining about his position in life. "But I find it interesting that that is so frequently the reaction, that this has made us compete pariahs. Quite remarkable."

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13.: The Plank

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:24 am (PST)

BG Comment: If the Shoe fits....

A MESSAGE FROM TNR'S LIEBERMAN-LOVING NEOCON OWNER

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=22305

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14.: 'Reading Leo Strauss,' by Steven B. Smith - New York Times

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:49 am (PST)

<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/books/review/25alter.html>

Comment:

A less sinister, more favorable take on Leo Strauss than many others that have been circulating on the net.

Excerpt:

"Throughout his writings," Smith concludes, "Strauss remained deeply skeptical of whether political theory had any substantive advice or direction to offer statesmen." This view was shaped by his wary observation of the systems of totalitarianism that dominated two major European nations in the 1930's, Nazism in Germany and Communism in the Soviet Union. As a result, he strenuously resisted the notion that politics could have a redemptive effect by radically transforming human existence. Such thinking could scarcely be further from the vision of neoconservative policy intellectuals that the global projection of American power can effect radical democratic change. "The idea," Smith contends, "that political or military action can be used to eradicate evil from the human landscape is closer to the utopian and idealistic visions of Marxism and the radical Enlightenment than anything found in the writings of Strauss."

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Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:16 am (PST)

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:16 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

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Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

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Posted by: "bill giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

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Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:54 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:57 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

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Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:30 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Vigilius Haufniensis" nerdmann@earthlink.net concept_of_irony

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:23 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:00 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

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Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:24 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:49 am (PST)