Thursday, June 29, 2006

1.: Fwd: Window into a Neocon Mind - Rmail

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:09 am (PST)

There is little doubt about which political bloc David Frum is no doubt spying for as he speaks. Frum is a pro-Israel militant and one of the key ringleaders of the Iraq War.

Gorilla in the Room <alert@r-mail.org> wrote: From: "Gorilla in the Room" <alert@r-mail.org>
Subject: Window into a Neocon Mind - Rmail
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:36:23 -0700

This bizzare document gives a window into the mind of a neocon (David Frum). It ends with:

A spy in the right cause serves the Lord more fully than any saint? It seems more than just a coincidence that we should be summoned to remember that insight as we read this weekend's headlines.

Steve Sailer

National Review.
Click here to view the original Webpage.

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2.: Fwd: [semanticweb] CfP: OWLED06. OWL - Experiences and Directions

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:12 am (PST)

Pascal Hitzler <hitzler@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: To: owl-ws-organizers@mindswap.org, sem-grd@gridforum.org,
aepia@dsic.upv.es, kweb-o2i@listserv.vub.ac.be
From: Pascal Hitzler <hitzler@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:11:33 +0200
Subject: [semanticweb] CfP: OWLED06. OWL - Experiences and Directions

OWL: EXPERIENCES AND DIRECTIONS
Second International Workshop
Athens, GA, USA, 10-11 November 2006
Co-located with ISWC06 and RuleML06.
http://owl-workshop.man.ac.uk/OWLWorkshop06.html

Summary
-------

Submissions due: 31st of July, 2006
Notification of acceptance: 11th of September, 2006
Final versions due: 9th of October, 2006
Workshop: 10-11th of November, 2006

Workshop proceedings will be published online.

Call for Papers
---------------

The W3C OWL Web Ontology Language has been a W3C recommendation since
2004. OWL is playing an important role in an increasing number and range
of applications, and is the focus of research into tools, reasoning
techniques, formal foundations, language extensions etc. This level of
experience with OWL means that the community is now in a good position
to discuss how OWL be applied, adapted and extended to fulfill current
and future application demands.

The aim of the OWLED workshop series is to establish a forum for
practitioners in industry and academia, tool developers, and others
interested in OWL to describe real and potential applications, to share
experience, and to discuss requirements for language
extensions/modifications. The workshop will bring users, implementors
and researchers together to measure the state of need against the state
of the art, and to set an agenda for research and deployment in order to
incorporate OWL-based technologies into new applications.

Topics of interest include, but are not limited to the following:
- Applications of and experience with OWL
- Application-driven requirements for OWL
- Performance and scalability issues
- Extensions to OWL, including
- non-monotonic extensions
- rules extensions
- extensions for representing temporal and spatial information
- extended property constructors
- keys
- extended class constructors
- extended datatype constructors
- probabilistic and fuzzy Extensions
- Implementation techniques for OWL and related languages
- Reasoning-related tasks for OWL, including explanation
- Security and Trust for OWL-based information
- Tools for OWL, including
- editors
- visualisation tools
- parsers and syntax checkers
- versioning frameworks
- OWL based Semantic Web Service frameworks

Characteristics of OWLED06
--------------------------

The 2006 OWLED workshop shall in particular
- further the interaction between theoreticians, tool builders, and
implementors;
- help consolidating OWL 1.1;
- initiate the development of OWL 2.0; and
- aid in clarifying the relationships between OWL and rules.

For OWLED06, we particularly encourage submissions on any of the
following topics:
- Experiences with OWL 1.1
- Implementation issues with OWL 1.1
- Demos of OWL 1.1 implementations
- Requirements for a potential OWL 2.0 revision
- Modeling and reasoning with OWL and rules
- Survey papers
- System descriptions

Submissions can be either technical papers or short "position" papers.
Submissions that base their conclusions on application experience are
especially encouraged.

Workshop Format
---------------

The goal of the workshop will be to maximise discussion. The technical
sessions will therefore consist of short presentations of papers
(grouped by topic area) followed by directed discussion. Further
presentations and system demonstrations will be made as part of a poster
session. The workshop may also have one session in common with the
Second International Conference on Rules and Rule Markup Languages for
the Semantic Web (RuleML06) in which the integration of OWL with rules
languages will be discussed.

Submission details
------------------

Submissions must be in PDF, and will not be accepted in any other
format. It is the responsibility of the authors to ensure that their
submission displays and prints correctly on common PDF viewers.
Submissions must be formatted in the style of the Springer Publications
format for Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS). For details see
http://www.springeronline.com/sgw/cda/frontpage/0,11855,5-164-2-72376-0,00.html
All papers must be submitted online using the submission website at
http://www.easychair.org/OWL2006

Technical paper submissions must be no longer than 10 pages, and shorter
submissions are welcome. Position paper submissions must be no longer
than 4 pages. All submissions must be received before 11:59 PM PST 31
July 2006. Submission will be via the workshop web site.

All relevant submissions will be made available from the workshop web
site; these may be updated with final versions after the reviewing
process. Presentation materials from the workshop will also be placed on
the web site.

All submissions will be reviewed by the workshop committee. Decisions on
the acceptance of papers will be communicated to authors no later than
11th September 2006.

Reviewing and Participation
---------------------------

All submissions will be reviewed by the programme committee. Authors of
accepted papers plus programme committee members will be invited to
participate in the workshop. Authors who need invitations before the
notification date should send a message to the workshop committee at
owl-ws-organizers@mindswap.org indicating why they need an advance
invitation and provide their qualifications to receive an invitation.

Applications from other interested parties will be considered after
submission-based invitations have been extended, but numbers will be
strictly limited. Prospective participants are welcome to submit a
two-page statement of interest (in PDF LLNCS format) by emailing it as
an attachment to owl-ws-organizers@mindswap.org. These statements will
be considered in determining invitations, and will be made available on
the workshop web site.

Venue
-----

The Workshop will take place at the Classic Center
(http://classiccenter.com/) in Athens, Georgia, U. S. A. (about two
miles away from the location of ISWC 2006). For more venue information,
including how to reach Athens, see the General Information section of
the ISWC 2006 web site (http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/). There will be
shuttle services between ISWC and OWLED locations.

Steering Committee
------------------

Ian Horrocks, University of Manchester (UK)
Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland (USA)
Peter Patel-Schneider, Bell Labs (USA)

Workshop Organising Committee
-----------------------------

Bernardo Cuenca Grau, University of Manchester (UK)
Pascal Hitzler, AIFB, University of Karlsruhe (Germany)
Conor Shankey, Visual Knowledge Software Inc. (USA)
Evan Wallace, NIST (USA)

Programme Committee
-------------------

Dean Allemang, TopQuadrant (USA)
Michael Champion, Microsoft (USA)
Kendall Clark, University of Maryland (USA)
Giuseppe DeGiacomo, Universita di Roma ``La Sapienza'' (Italy)
Nick Gibbins, University of Southampton (UK)
Jennifer Golbeck, University of Maryland (USA)
Christine Golbreich, University Rennes 2 (France)
Volker Haarslev, Concordia University (Canada)
Joanne Luciano, Harvard Medical School (USA)
Carsten Lutz, TU Dresden (Germany)
Ashok Malhotra, Oracle (USA)
Massimo Marchiori, W3C at MIT (USA)
Boris Motik, University of Manchester (UK)
Enrico Motta, Open University (UK)
Ryusuke Masuoka, Fujitsu Laboratories of America (USA)
Gary Ng, Cerebra (USA)
Natasha Noy, Stanford University (USA)
Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland (USA)
Terry Payne, University of Southampton (UK)
Alan Ruttenberg, Millennium Pharmaceuticals, (USA)
Riccardo Rosati, Universita di Roma ``La Sapienza'' (Italy)
Ulrike Sattler, University of Manchester (UK)
Andrew Schain, NASA (USA)
Guus Schreiber, Vrije Universitat Amsterdam (Netherlands)
Valentina Tamma, University of Liverpool (UK)
Sergio Tessaris, Free University of Bolzano (Italy)

--
Dr. habil. Pascal Hitzler
Institute AIFB, University of Karlsruhe, 76128 Karlsruhe
email: hitzler@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de fax: +49 721 608 6580
web: http://www.pascal-hitzler.de phone: +49 721 608 4751
http://www.neural-symbolic.org

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3.: Re: Fwd: [planehuggers] nick berg's father on larry king tonight

Posted by: "better_off_said" better_off_said@yahoo.com better_off_said

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:17 am (PST)

Can you site a source -- a quote?

Thanks.

--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Giltner"
<bill.giltner@...> wrote:
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Total Information <totalinfo@...>
> Date: Jun 8, 2006 2:19 PM
> Subject: [planehuggers] nick berg's father on larry king tonight
> To: planehuggers@yahoogroups.com
>
> nick berg's father is now saying he thinks the beheading video
was
> bogus. he's schedukled to be on CNN's Larry King Live tonight,
could be
> interesting
>
> --
> www.total411.info
> www.total911.info
>

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4.: 911-2B ALERT!!! (Lone Star Iconoclast & Cloak and Dagger)

Posted by: "Captain May" captainmay@prodigy.net cptmay

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:20 am (PST)

Leon Smith, Editor-in-Chief
Lone Star Iconoclast

June 27, 2006

Dear Mr. Smith,

I salute you for showing that there are still American jounalists willing to talk truth to power. Your publication of my 911 Truth and Texas Terror is already widely read -- as it needs to be. Lenny Bloom, the cyber-journalist who hosts Cloak and Dagger radio, has set up a companion to the column as Countdown to Terror? NASA Discovery and 911-2B, in which we spend half an hour going into many particulars that the article touches on generally. Perhaps our most important focus is on the Saturday launch of the space shuttle Discovery, and why we are concerned that it may be related to a coming false-flag terror event.

As I have a considerable internet readership of my own, I proudly forward the column to them all: http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=248&z=37.

I imagine most informed Americans are already familiar with your superb newspaper, published deep in the heart of Texas, next door to the Bush Western White House in Crawford, and will remember you as the editor who refused to follow the Central Texas pattern of endorsing GWB in the 2004 elections. You were beyond the rest of the pack in the hunt for the truth both then and now.

I just spoke with Lenny, who send his compliments and will be calling you today, wanting to speak with a genuinely principled editor in a time when editors are acting like minor characters out of The Prince. My interview with him is at the top of his home page: http://www.cloakanddagger.de/

I hope more and more people will read -- and subscribe to -- your newspaper, the candle standing proudly on a candlestick, not hidden under a BUSHel basket!

Best regards,

Captain May / Ghost Troop CO

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5a.: Greg Palace - .... Cheney's energy task force

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:29 am (PST)

I have to admit that Cheney's super secret energy taks force is still
somewhere at the back of my mind, so I thought I might just as well
forward Greg Palace's latest newletter circling these matters:

"After two mad years of hunting, I discovered the real plan for Iraq's
oil, the one that keeps our troops in Fallujah. Some 323 pages long
and deeply confidential, it was drafted at the James A. Baker III
Institute in Houston, Texas, under the strict guidance of Big Oil's
minions. It was the culmination of a series of planning groups that
began in December 2000 with key players from the Baker Institute and
Council on Foreign Relations (including one Ken Lay of Enron). This
was followed by a State Department invasion-planning session in Walnut
Creek, California, in February 2001, only weeks after Bush and Cheney
took office. Its concepts received official blessing after a March
2001 gathering of oil chiefs (and Lay) with Dick Cheney where the
group reviewed with the Vice-President the map of Iraq's oil fields."

Was the Invasion of Iraq A Jewish Conspiracy?

BY GREG PALAST
Tikkun Magazine JULY/AUGUST 2006

June 26, 2006

/Did the Jews do it/?

The US Congress will open hearings this week on the War in Iraq -- a
wee bit late one might think. But one question at the forefront of
the minds of many on both the Left and the Right is sure not to be
asked: /Did the Jews do it/? I mean, after killing Jesus, did the
Elders of Zion manipulate the government of the United States into
invading Babylon as part of a scheme to abet the expansion of Greater
Israel?

The question was first posed to me in 2004 when I was speaking at a
meeting of Mobilization for Peace in San Jose. A member of the
audience asked, "Put it together— Who's behind this war? Paul
/Wolfowitz/ and Elliott /Abrams/ and the Project for a "Jew" American
Century and, and, why don't you talk about that, huh? And ...."

But the questioner never had the full opportunity to complete his
query because, flushed and red, he began to charge the stage. The
peace activists attempted to detain the gentleman—whose confederates
then grabbed some chairs to swing. As the Peace Center was taking on a
somewhat warlike character, I chose to call in the authorities and
slip out the back.

Still, his question intrigued me. As an investigative reporter, "Who's
behind this war?" seemed like a reasonable chall I just report the
facts, ma'am.

And frankly, at first, it seemed like the gent had a point, twisted
though his spin might be. There was Paul Wolfowitz, before Congress in
March 2003, offering Americans the bargain of the century: a free
Iraq—not "free" as in "freedom and democracy" but free in the sense of
this won't cost us a penny. Wolfowitz testified: "There's a lot of
money to pay for this that doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money."

A "Free" Iraq

And where would these billions come from? Wolfowitz told us: "/It
starts with the assets of the Iraqi people/.... The oil revenues of
that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the next
two or three years."

This was no small matter. The vulpine Deputy Defense Secretary knew
that the number one question on the minds of Americans was not, "Does
Saddam really have the bomb?" but "What's this little war going to
cost us?"

However, Wolfowitz left something out of his testimony: the truth. I
hunted for weeks for the source of the Pentagon's oil revenue
projections—and found them. They were wildly different from the
Wolfowitz testimony. But this was not perjury. Ever since the
conviction of Elliott Abrams for perjury before Congress during the
Iran-Contra hearings, neither Wolfowitz nor the other Bush factotums
swear an oath before testifying. If you don't raise your hand and
promise to tell the truth, "so help me, God," you're off the hook with
federal prosecutors.

How the Lord will judge that little ploy, we cannot say.

But Wolfowitz's little numbers game can hardly count as a Great
Zionist conspiracy. That seemed to come, at first glance, in the form
of a confidential 101-page document slipped to our team at BBC's
/Newsnight/. It detailed the economic "recovery" of Iraq's
post-conquest economy. This blueprint for occupation, we learned, was
first devised in secret in late 2001.

Notably, this program for Iraq's recovery wasn't written by Iraqis;
rather, it was promoted by the neo-conservatives of the Defense
Department, home of Abrams, Wolfowitz, Harold Rhode and other desktop
Napoleons unafraid of moving toy tanks around the Pentagon war room.

Nose-Twist's Hidden Hand

The neo-cons' 101-page confidential document, which came to me in a
brown envelope in February 2001, just before the tanks rolled, goes
boldly where no U.S. invasion plan had gone before: the complete
rewrite of the conquered state's "policies, law and regulations." A
cap on the income taxes of Iraq's wealthiest was included as a matter
of course. And this was undoubtedly history's first military assault
plan appended to a program for toughening the target nation's
copyright laws. Once the 82nd Airborne liberated Iraq, never
again would the Ba'athist dictatorship threaten America with bootleg
dubs of Britney Spears's "...Baby One More Time."

It was more like a corporate takeover, except with Abrams tanks
instead of junk bonds. It didn't strike me as the work of a Kosher
Cabal for an Imperial Israel. In fact, it smelled of pork—Pig Heaven
for corporate America looking for a slice of Iraq, and I suspected its
porcine source. I gave it a big sniff and, sure enough, I smelled
Grover Norquist.

Norquist is the /capo di capi/ of right-wing, big-money influence
peddlers in Washington. Those jealous of his inside track to the
White House call him "Gopher Nose-Twist."

A devout Christian, Norquist channeled a million dollars to the
Christian Coalition to fight the devil's tool, legalized gambling. He
didn't tell the Coalition that the loot came from an Indian tribe
represented by Norquist's associate, Jack Abramoff. (The tribe
didn't want competition for its own casino operations.)

I took a chance and dropped in on Norquist's L Street office, and
under a poster of his idol ["NIXON— NOW MORE THAN EVER"], Norquist
took a look at the "recovery" plan for Iraq and practically jumped
over my desk to sign it, filled with pride at seeing his baby. Yes, he
promoted the privatizations, the tax limit for the rich, and the
change in copyright law, all concerns close to the hearts and wallets
of his clients.

"The Oil" on Page 73

The very un-Jewish Norquist may have framed much of the U.S.
occupation grabfest, but there was, without doubt, one notable item in
the 101-page plan for Iraq which clearly had the mark of Zion on it.
On page seventy-three the plan called for the "privatization....[of]
the oil and supporting industries," the sell-off of every ounce of
Iraq's oil fields and reserves. Its mastermind, I learned, was Ariel
Cohen of the Heritage Foundation.

For the neo-cons, this was The Big One. Behind it, no less a goal than
to bring down the lynchpin of Arab power, Saudi Arabia.

It would work like this: the Saudi's power rests on control of OPEC,
the oil cartel which, as any good monopoly, withholds oil from the
market, kicking up prices. Sell-off Iraq's oil fields and private
companies will pump oil in their little Iraqi patches to the max.
Iraq, the neo-cons hoped, would crank out six million barrels of oil a
day, bust its OPEC quota, flood the world market, demolish OPEC and,
as the price of oil fell off a cliff, Saudi Arabia would fall to its
knees.

"It's a no-brainer," Cohen told me, at his office at Heritage. It was
a dim little cubby, in which, in our hour or two together, the phone
rang only once. For a guy who was supposed to be The Godfather of a
globe-spanning Zionist scheme to destroy the Arab oil monopoly, he
seemed kind of, well...pathetic.

And he failed. While the Norquist-promoted sell-offs, flat taxes and
copyright laws were dictated into Iraqi law by occupation chief Paul
Bremer, the Cohen neo-con oil privatization died an unhappy death.
What happened, Ari?

"Arab economists," he hissed, "hired by the State Department … the
witches brew of the Saudi Royal family and Soviet Ostblock."

Well, the Soviet Ostblock does not exist, but the Arab economists do.
I spoke with them in Riyadh, in London, in California, in wry accents
mixing desert and Oxford drawls. They speak with confidence, knowing
Saudi Arabia's political authority is protected by the royal families
-- of Houston petroleum.

"Enhance OPEC"

After two mad years of hunting, I discovered the real plan for Iraq's
oil, the one that keeps our troops in Fallujah. Some 323 pages long
and deeply confidential, it was drafted at the James A. Baker III
Institute in Houston, Texas, under the strict guidance of Big Oil's
minions. It was the culmination of a series of planning groups that
began in December 2000 with key players from the Baker Institute and
Council on Foreign Relations (including one Ken Lay of Enron). This
was followed by a State Department invasion-planning session in Walnut
Creek, California, in February 2001, only weeks after Bush and Cheney
took office. Its concepts received official blessing after a March
2001 gathering of oil chiefs (and Lay) with Dick Cheney where the
group reviewed with the Vice-President the map of Iraq's oil fields.

Once I discovered the Big Oil plan, several of the players agreed to
speak with me (not, to the chagrin of some, realizing that I rarely
hold such conversions without secretly recording them). Most
forthright was Philip Carroll, former CEO of Shell Oil USA, who was
flown into Baghdad on a C-17 to make sure there would be no neo-con
monkey business in America's newest oil fields.

It had been a very good war for Big Oil, with tripled oil prices
meaning tripled profits. In Houston, I asked Carroll, a commanding,
steel-straight chief executive, about Ari Cohen's oil privatization
plan, the anti-Saudi "no-brainer."

"I would agree with that statement" Caroll told me, "privatization is
a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain."

Bush world is divided in two: neo-cons on one side, and the
Establishment (which includes the oil companies and the Saudis) on the
other. The plan the Establishment created, crafted by Houston oil men,
called for locking up Iraq's oil with agreements between a new state
oil company under "profit-sharing agreements" with "IOCs"
(International Oil Companies). The combine could "enhance the
[Iraq's] government's relationship with OPEC," it read, by holding
the line on quotas and thereby upholding high prices.

Wolfowitz Dammerung: Twilight Of The Neo-Con Gods

So there you have it. Wolfowitz and his neo-con clique— bookish,
foolish, vainglorious—had their asses kicked utterly, finally, and
convincingly by the powers of petroleum, the Houston-Riyadh Big Oil axis.

Between the neo-cons and Big Oil, it wasn't much of a contest. The
end-game was crushing, final. The Israelites had lost again in the
land of Babylon. And to make certain the arriviste neo-cons got the
point, public punishment was exacted, from exile to demotion to
banishment. In January 2005, neo-con pointman Douglas Feith resigned
from the Defense Department; his assistantLarry Franklin later was
busted for passing documents to pro-Israel lobbyists. The State
Department's knuckle-dragging enforcer of neo-con orthodoxies, John
Bolton, was booted from Washington to New York to the powerless post
of U.N. Ambassador.

Finally, on March 16, 2005, second anniversary of the invasion,
neo-con leader of the pack Wolfowitz was cast out of the Pentagon war
room and tossed into the World Bank, moving from the
testosterone-powered, war-making decision center to the lending office
for Bangladeshi chicken farmers."The realists," crowed the triumphant
editor of the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, "have
defeated the fantasists!"

So much for the Big Zionist Conspiracy that supposedly directed this
war. A half- dozen confused Jews, wandering in the policy desert a
long distance from mainstream Jewish views, armed only with Leo
Strauss' silly aphorisms, were no match for Texas oil majors and OPEC
potentates with a combined throw weight of half a trillion barrels of oil.

**********
/
Investigative Reporter Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times
bestseller/, Armed Madhouse
<http://www.gregpalast.com/mailing/link.php?URL=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ncmVncGFsYXN0LmNvbS9tYWRob3VzZS9pbmRleC5waHAvb3JkZXItdGhlLWJvb2sv&Name=&EncryptedMemberID=MTc2NTI%3D&CampaignID=19&CampaignStatisticsID=12&Demo=0&Email=l.l.hahn@web.de>:

Who's Afraid of Osama Wolf?, China Floats,

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5b.: Greg Palast is an Over-the-Top Israeli Op

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:17 am (PST)

Greg Palast is one of the most flagrant examples of an Israeli gatekeeper in the "alternative" (fake opposition, Israel lobby-controlled) media -- his writings are simply screaming with an emotional agenda about his ethnic issues, and are easy to make mincemeat of. He fails to take into account and explain 99% of the neocon individuals and organizations that engineered the Iraq War -- he simply ignores them altogether.

Palast, like Noam Chomsky, is a real waste of time as soon as the subject of the Israel lobby comes into play. Most of us do not run our political analysis through the warped lens of our ethnic self-obsession and paranoia. We simply seek to discover the objective truth and let the chips fall where they may, regardless of whose sacred cow is gored.

If all us played politics the Palast way, we'd be in a state of multiple ethnic holy wars.

There is little evidence that the oil industry lobbied for the Iraq War, and no evidence whatever that the oil industry is lobbying for an Iran War. The fingerprints of Israel and the Israel lobby are all over both projects. They have left a long, voluminous and permanent documentary trail in the mainstream media elucidating their activities on this matter. Data mine the Washington Post, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal for the gory details. My personal favorite in this shrieky campaign has been Ken Adelman -- Mr. Cakewalk. Google it. Adelman is a leading neocon and a close friend of Dick Cheney.

LeaNder <l.l.hahn@web.de> wrote:
I have to admit that Cheney's super secret energy taks force is still
somewhere at the back of my mind, so I thought I might just as well
forward Greg Palace's latest newletter circling these matters:

"After two mad years of hunting, I discovered the real plan for Iraq's
oil, the one that keeps our troops in Fallujah. Some 323 pages long
and deeply confidential, it was drafted at the James A. Baker III
Institute in Houston, Texas, under the strict guidance of Big Oil's
minions. It was the culmination of a series of planning groups that
began in December 2000 with key players from the Baker Institute and
Council on Foreign Relations (including one Ken Lay of Enron). This
was followed by a State Department invasion-planning session in Walnut
Creek, California, in February 2001, only weeks after Bush and Cheney
took office. Its concepts received official blessing after a March
2001 gathering of oil chiefs (and Lay) with Dick Cheney where the
group reviewed with the Vice-President the map of Iraq's oil fields."

Was the Invasion of Iraq A Jewish Conspiracy?

BY GREG PALAST
Tikkun Magazine JULY/AUGUST 2006

June 26, 2006

/Did the Jews do it/?

The US Congress will open hearings this week on the War in Iraq -- a
wee bit late one might think. But one question at the forefront of
the minds of many on both the Left and the Right is sure not to be
asked: /Did the Jews do it/? I mean, after killing Jesus, did the
Elders of Zion manipulate the government of the United States into
invading Babylon as part of a scheme to abet the expansion of Greater
Israel?

The question was first posed to me in 2004 when I was speaking at a
meeting of Mobilization for Peace in San Jose. A member of the
audience asked, "Put it together— Who's behind this war? Paul
/Wolfowitz/ and Elliott /Abrams/ and the Project for a "Jew" American
Century and, and, why don't you talk about that, huh? And ...."

But the questioner never had the full opportunity to complete his
query because, flushed and red, he began to charge the stage. The
peace activists attempted to detain the gentleman—whose confederates
then grabbed some chairs to swing. As the Peace Center was taking on a
somewhat warlike character, I chose to call in the authorities and
slip out the back.

Still, his question intrigued me. As an investigative reporter, "Who's
behind this war?" seemed like a reasonable chall I just report the
facts, ma'am.

And frankly, at first, it seemed like the gent had a point, twisted
though his spin might be. There was Paul Wolfowitz, before Congress in
March 2003, offering Americans the bargain of the century: a free
Iraq—not "free" as in "freedom and democracy" but free in the sense of
this won't cost us a penny. Wolfowitz testified: "There's a lot of
money to pay for this that doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money."

A "Free" Iraq

And where would these billions come from? Wolfowitz told us: "/It
starts with the assets of the Iraqi people/.... The oil revenues of
that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the next
two or three years."

This was no small matter. The vulpine Deputy Defense Secretary knew
that the number one question on the minds of Americans was not, "Does
Saddam really have the bomb?" but "What's this little war going to
cost us?"

However, Wolfowitz left something out of his testimony: the truth. I
hunted for weeks for the source of the Pentagon's oil revenue
projections—and found them. They were wildly different from the
Wolfowitz testimony. But this was not perjury. Ever since the
conviction of Elliott Abrams for perjury before Congress during the
Iran-Contra hearings, neither Wolfowitz nor the other Bush factotums
swear an oath before testifying. If you don't raise your hand and
promise to tell the truth, "so help me, God," you're off the hook with
federal prosecutors.

How the Lord will judge that little ploy, we cannot say.

But Wolfowitz's little numbers game can hardly count as a Great
Zionist conspiracy. That seemed to come, at first glance, in the form
of a confidential 101-page document slipped to our team at BBC's
/Newsnight/. It detailed the economic "recovery" of Iraq's
post-conquest economy. This blueprint for occupation, we learned, was
first devised in secret in late 2001.

Notably, this program for Iraq's recovery wasn't written by Iraqis;
rather, it was promoted by the neo-conservatives of the Defense
Department, home of Abrams, Wolfowitz, Harold Rhode and other desktop
Napoleons unafraid of moving toy tanks around the Pentagon war room.

Nose-Twist's Hidden Hand

The neo-cons' 101-page confidential document, which came to me in a
brown envelope in February 2001, just before the tanks rolled, goes
boldly where no U.S. invasion plan had gone before: the complete
rewrite of the conquered state's "policies, law and regulations." A
cap on the income taxes of Iraq's wealthiest was included as a matter
of course. And this was undoubtedly history's first military assault
plan appended to a program for toughening the target nation's
copyright laws. Once the 82nd Airborne liberated Iraq, never
again would the Ba'athist dictatorship threaten America with bootleg
dubs of Britney Spears's "...Baby One More Time."

It was more like a corporate takeover, except with Abrams tanks
instead of junk bonds. It didn't strike me as the work of a Kosher
Cabal for an Imperial Israel. In fact, it smelled of pork—Pig Heaven
for corporate America looking for a slice of Iraq, and I suspected its
porcine source. I gave it a big sniff and, sure enough, I smelled
Grover Norquist.

Norquist is the /capo di capi/ of right-wing, big-money influence
peddlers in Washington. Those jealous of his inside track to the
White House call him "Gopher Nose-Twist."

A devout Christian, Norquist channeled a million dollars to the
Christian Coalition to fight the devil's tool, legalized gambling. He
didn't tell the Coalition that the loot came from an Indian tribe
represented by Norquist's associate, Jack Abramoff. (The tribe
didn't want competition for its own casino operations.)

I took a chance and dropped in on Norquist's L Street office, and
under a poster of his idol ["NIXON— NOW MORE THAN EVER"], Norquist
took a look at the "recovery" plan for Iraq and practically jumped
over my desk to sign it, filled with pride at seeing his baby. Yes, he
promoted the privatizations, the tax limit for the rich, and the
change in copyright law, all concerns close to the hearts and wallets
of his clients.

"The Oil" on Page 73

The very un-Jewish Norquist may have framed much of the U.S.
occupation grabfest, but there was, without doubt, one notable item in
the 101-page plan for Iraq which clearly had the mark of Zion on it.
On page seventy-three the plan called for the "privatization....[of]
the oil and supporting industries," the sell-off of every ounce of
Iraq's oil fields and reserves. Its mastermind, I learned, was Ariel
Cohen of the Heritage Foundation.

For the neo-cons, this was The Big One. Behind it, no less a goal than
to bring down the lynchpin of Arab power, Saudi Arabia.

It would work like this: the Saudi's power rests on control of OPEC,
the oil cartel which, as any good monopoly, withholds oil from the
market, kicking up prices. Sell-off Iraq's oil fields and private
companies will pump oil in their little Iraqi patches to the max.
Iraq, the neo-cons hoped, would crank out six million barrels of oil a
day, bust its OPEC quota, flood the world market, demolish OPEC and,
as the price of oil fell off a cliff, Saudi Arabia would fall to its
knees.

"It's a no-brainer," Cohen told me, at his office at Heritage. It was
a dim little cubby, in which, in our hour or two together, the phone
rang only once. For a guy who was supposed to be The Godfather of a
globe-spanning Zionist scheme to destroy the Arab oil monopoly, he
seemed kind of, well...pathetic.

And he failed. While the Norquist-promoted sell-offs, flat taxes and
copyright laws were dictated into Iraqi law by occupation chief Paul
Bremer, the Cohen neo-con oil privatization died an unhappy death.
What happened, Ari?

"Arab economists," he hissed, "hired by the State Department … the
witches brew of the Saudi Royal family and Soviet Ostblock."

Well, the Soviet Ostblock does not exist, but the Arab economists do.
I spoke with them in Riyadh, in London, in California, in wry accents
mixing desert and Oxford drawls. They speak with confidence, knowing
Saudi Arabia's political authority is protected by the royal families
-- of Houston petroleum.

"Enhance OPEC"

After two mad years of hunting, I discovered the real plan for Iraq's
oil, the one that keeps our troops in Fallujah. Some 323 pages long
and deeply confidential, it was drafted at the James A. Baker III
Institute in Houston, Texas, under the strict guidance of Big Oil's
minions. It was the culmination of a series of planning groups that
began in December 2000 with key players from the Baker Institute and
Council on Foreign Relations (including one Ken Lay of Enron). This
was followed by a State Department invasion-planning session in Walnut
Creek, California, in February 2001, only weeks after Bush and Cheney
took office. Its concepts received official blessing after a March
2001 gathering of oil chiefs (and Lay) with Dick Cheney where the
group reviewed with the Vice-President the map of Iraq's oil fields.

Once I discovered the Big Oil plan, several of the players agreed to
speak with me (not, to the chagrin of some, realizing that I rarely
hold such conversions without secretly recording them). Most
forthright was Philip Carroll, former CEO of Shell Oil USA, who was
flown into Baghdad on a C-17 to make sure there would be no neo-con
monkey business in America's newest oil fields.

It had been a very good war for Big Oil, with tripled oil prices
meaning tripled profits. In Houston, I asked Carroll, a commanding,
steel-straight chief executive, about Ari Cohen's oil privatization
plan, the anti-Saudi "no-brainer."

"I would agree with that statement" Caroll told me, "privatization is
a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain."

Bush world is divided in two: neo-cons on one side, and the
Establishment (which includes the oil companies and the Saudis) on the
other. The plan the Establishment created, crafted by Houston oil men,
called for locking up Iraq's oil with agreements between a new state
oil company under "profit-sharing agreements" with "IOCs"
(International Oil Companies). The combine could "enhance the
[Iraq's] government's relationship with OPEC," it read, by holding
the line on quotas and thereby upholding high prices.

Wolfowitz Dammerung: Twilight Of The Neo-Con Gods

So there you have it. Wolfowitz and his neo-con clique— bookish,
foolish, vainglorious—had their asses kicked utterly, finally, and
convincingly by the powers of petroleum, the Houston-Riyadh Big Oil axis.

Between the neo-cons and Big Oil, it wasn't much of a contest. The
end-game was crushing, final. The Israelites had lost again in the
land of Babylon. And to make certain the arriviste neo-cons got the
point, public punishment was exacted, from exile to demotion to
banishment. In January 2005, neo-con pointman Douglas Feith resigned
from the Defense Department; his assistantLarry Franklin later was
busted for passing documents to pro-Israel lobbyists. The State
Department's knuckle-dragging enforcer of neo-con orthodoxies, John
Bolton, was booted from Washington to New York to the powerless post
of U.N. Ambassador.

Finally, on March 16, 2005, second anniversary of the invasion,
neo-con leader of the pack Wolfowitz was cast out of the Pentagon war
room and tossed into the World Bank, moving from the
testosterone-powered, war-making decision center to the lending office
for Bangladeshi chicken farmers."The realists," crowed the triumphant
editor of the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, "have
defeated the fantasists!"

So much for the Big Zionist Conspiracy that supposedly directed this
war. A half- dozen confused Jews, wandering in the policy desert a
long distance from mainstream Jewish views, armed only with Leo
Strauss' silly aphorisms, were no match for Texas oil majors and OPEC
potentates with a combined throw weight of half a trillion barrels of oil.

**********
/
Investigative Reporter Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times
bestseller/, Armed Madhouse
<http://www.gregpalast.com/mailing/link.php?URL=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ncmVncGFsYXN0LmNvbS9tYWRob3VzZS9pbmRleC5waHAvb3JkZXItdGhlLWJvb2sv&Name=&EncryptedMemberID=MTc2NTI%3D&CampaignID=19&CampaignStatisticsID=12&Demo=0&Email=l.l.hahn@web.de>:

Who's Afraid of Osama Wolf?, China Floats,

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6.: COINTELPRO-Style Ops in the 9/11 Research Community

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:34 am (PST)

COINTELPRO-Style Ops in the 9/11 Research Community

How to spot them:

1. They expend much more time and energy in attacking the most effective communicators in the 9/11 research community than in going after the members of the Bush administration who were most responsible for exploiting 9/11 and instigating the Iraq War, and who are the leading suspects in any 9/11 inside job scenario.

2. They try to tie up the most effective communicators in the community with nitpicking pseudo-logic games and childish badgering, with an obvious malicious intent.

3. They labor to create as much friction, conflict, factionalism, chaos and bad feelings within the community as possible, often by throwing verbal Molotov cocktails at all parties

4. Acting as agents provocateurs, they try to drive the community towards the most extreme, absurd and self-defeating positions possible on 9/11, with the aim of discrediting the community in the minds of mainstream Americans.

The aim of these ops is to worm their way into the community and to burn it to the ground.

Look around you and judge for yourself which individuals fit the above profile -- these people are not difficult to spot. Generally it's a good idea to ostracize them totally, and not engage them in discussion.

Authentic 9/11 researchers will extend a generous hand to anyone who has questions about the official story on 9/11, and will easily tolerate a wide variety of viewpoints and theories on what really happened on the day of the neocons' new Pearl Harbor.

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7.: Bloglines - TDS: The Miami Seven

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:37 am (PST)

BODY {background-color: white} body, div, p, th, td, li, dd,
code, tt { font-size: 10pt; font-family:
verdana,helvetica; white-space:wrap;} h2 {
font-size: 16px; margin: 0; color: 1393C0; }
.blogtitle { font-size: 16px; } Bloglines
<http://www.bloglines.com> user bill.giltner@gmail.com has sent
this item to you.

Crooks and Liars <http://www.crooksandliars.com/>
John Amato's Virtual Online Magazine TDS:
The Miami Seven
<http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/06/26/tds-the-miami-sev\
en/> By John Amato on terrorism

[TDS-Miami-Seven.jpg]

Jon Stewart takes a look at the case known to many as "The Miami
Seven." He examines the careful and decisive evidence told to us
by Alberto Gonzales:

Gonzales: These individuals wish to wage a quote: "full ground
war against the United States."

Stewart: Seven guys? I´m not a general. I am not anyway
affiliated with the military academy, but I believe if you were
going to wage a full ground war against the United States, you
need to field at least as many people as say a softball team.

Video <http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Miami-Seven.wmv>
-WMP Video <http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Miami-Seven.mov>
-QT

Please Alberto, don´t take any questions-you were doing
just fine up until then. That was followed up by some careful
analysis of the men involved in the plot.

A: One of the individuals was familiar with the Sears Tower- had
worked in Chicago and had been there-so was familiar with the
tower, but in terms of the plans it was more aspirational rather
than operational.

Stewart: No weapons, no actual contact with al-Qaeda, but one of
them had been to Chicago...

Comments
<http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/06/26/tds-the-miami-sev\
en/#comments>

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8.: Terror Expert: London Bomber Was Working For MI5

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:14 am (PST)

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/957>

Comment:

Wow -- what a shocker, what a big surprise. The vast majority of Muslim terrorism is apparently being run by an international neocon black ops network.

Excerpt:

A noted terror expert has told the BBC that Mohammed Siddique Khan, the alleged ringleader of the 7/7 London bombings, was working for British intelligence agency MI5 as an informant at the time of the attacks.

Charles Shoebridge is a 12-year veteran detective of the London Metropolitan Police, a former graduate of the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, and now a broadcaster and writer on terrorism in the UK.

Shoebridge told the BBC Newshour program that from the evidence little else can be assumed other than that Khan was working for British intelligence.

"The amount of information coming out and the quality of information coming out. The fact that that has been so consistently overlooked it would appear by the security service MI5, to me suggests really only one of two options."

"Either, a) we've got a level of incompetence that would be unusual even for the security services. But b) possibly, and this is a possibility, that this man Khan may even have been working as an informant for the security service."

"It is difficult otherwise to see how it can be that they've so covered his tracks in the interim."

__________________________________________________________
Save and share anything you find online - Furl @ http://www.furl.net

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9.: Re: [ctrl] Re: COINTELPRO-Style Ops in the 9/11 Research Community

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:52 am (PST)

I'm with you -- we need answers to all these questions. To get the answers, we need to build a political movement strong enough to force the answers from the relevant parties. To build such a movement will require ostracizing and marginalizing COINTELPRO-style ops like Gerard Holmgren, who are working to destroy the 9/11 truth movement from within.

Son Of Swamp Fox <jurisnot@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In ctrl@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride <smcbride2@...> wrote:
>
> COINTELPRO-Style Ops in the 9/11 Research Community
>
The SIENCE is the Question.
AT what speed and HOW did the Security Cameras Operate ? Were they capable and DID they capture the 500 + MPH Plane ?
Was Thermite Used in NYC to Clear Beams in a Rescue, Fire Control, Get The Crap Out Of The Way emergency effort so we can MAYBE SEARCH and Rescue Here ?
There are PROPER FORENSICS and well something less possible to you know !
I want the TRUTH based on the FACTS, because ALL Those people Deserve It. The NATION Deserves It !!

Judson Witham

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10a.: Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:57 am (PST)

Bond,

If you get a chance, browse some of Razl Dazl's posts in the Yahoo Group CTRL.

Question: does RD sound like a real Australian to you? Are many Australians in a state of high emotional excitement about the Israeli interest, and completely oblivious to Australian issues and interests? RD sounds like he is signing in from a West Bank settlement, not from Australia, but perhaps there is a faction of these zealots on the Australian political scene.

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10b.: Re: Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Posted by: "Bond" Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:31 pm (PST)

Oh yes, I'm up-to date re Razz's exploits on CTRL and elsewhere. Three or four years ago I bounced him from my own group - unsurprisingly he was also functioning as an ADL-style zionist provocateur back then (btw, the ADL branch here is named the ADC - Anti-Defamation Council). IIRC, he was also agitating at that time (at least up until late Sept. 2003) under the name "David Sutherland" on Kris' CTRL AOL listserv.

With Australia's government now so deeply in bed with the Neocons, the rabid Zionist extremists such as Razz have come out of the closet like never before. Even our equivalent of the British BBC (the ABC) have shifted severely toward endlessly spouting pro-Neocon propaganda, and regularly present extremists such as Daniel Pipes (one of Razz's gods) as "non-partisan" experts ("independent authorities" from credible "think tanks") - mounting **no** criticism of their stated positions during interviews (very uncharacteristic of the ABC of the past).

Our Prime Minister has been back and forth to Washington like a yo-yo since 9/11 (he was actually in Washington that morning), our Rumsfeld counterpart, Alexander Downer did the mandatory tour of the Knesset and returned a devotee (Likudnik) - and in fact yesterday he was in Washington sharing caviar with Cheney and the usual suspects (possibly still there now).

Australia has been Neoconned.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:42 AM
Subject: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Bond,

If you get a chance, browse some of Razl Dazl's posts in the Yahoo Group CTRL.

Question: does RD sound like a real Australian to you? Are many Australians in a state of high emotional excitement about the Israeli interest, and completely oblivious to Australian issues and interests? RD sounds like he is signing in from a West Bank settlement, not from Australia, but perhaps there is a faction of these zealots on the Australian political scene.

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10c.: Re: Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:56 pm (PST)

Interesting stuff -- thanks for the background.

The most extraordinary thing about RD's posts is their absolute and total lack of grounding in Australian culture, issues and interests -- there is not even the minutest reference to such matters. Every single post comes back, in the ugliest way possible, to Israel's battles with a very large collection of enemies. I found myself wondering whether most Australians would find this kind of discourse to be useful or appetizing, and how it is doing any good for the cause and image of Israel.

RD has three times now claimed that he is not Jewish, while bashing Christianity and Islam and ferociously defending Israel and Judaism. He won't divulge what his own ethnicity and religious background are, or what particular ideology (or demons) drive him. There is quite a bundle of fascinating psychological and cultural issues here to try to understand.

There are a large number of RD's out there, scattered in nations all around the world, pushing exactly the same agenda with the same brutal and sadistic rhetorical style. How is it all going to end? Probably not well for anyone concerned.

Bond <Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Oh yes, I'm up-to date re Razz's exploits on CTRL and elsewhere. Three or four years ago I bounced him from my own group - unsurprisingly he was also functioning as an ADL-style zionist provocateur back then (btw, the ADL branch here is named the ADC - Anti-Defamation Council). IIRC, he was also agitating at that time (at least up until late Sept. 2003) under the name "David Sutherland" on Kris' CTRL AOL listserv.

With Australia's government now so deeply in bed with the Neocons, the rabid Zionist extremists such as Razz have come out of the closet like never before. Even our equivalent of the British BBC (the ABC) have shifted severely toward endlessly spouting pro-Neocon propaganda, and regularly present extremists such as Daniel Pipes (one of Razz's gods) as "non-partisan" experts ("independent authorities" from credible "think tanks") - mounting **no** criticism of their stated positions during interviews (very uncharacteristic of the ABC of the past).

Our Prime Minister has been back and forth to Washington like a yo-yo since 9/11 (he was actually in Washington that morning), our Rumsfeld counterpart, Alexander Downer did the mandatory tour of the Knesset and returned a devotee (Likudnik) - and in fact yesterday he was in Washington sharing caviar with Cheney and the usual suspects (possibly still there now).

Australia has been Neoconned.

----- Original Message ----- From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:42 AM
Subject: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Bond,

If you get a chance, browse some of Razl Dazl's posts in the Yahoo Group CTRL.

Question: does RD sound like a real Australian to you? Are many Australians in a state of high emotional excitement about the Israeli interest, and completely oblivious to Australian issues and interests? RD sounds like he is signing in from a West Bank settlement, not from Australia, but perhaps there is a faction of these zealots on the Australian political scene.

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10d.: Re: Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Posted by: "Bond" Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:10 am (PST)

As you may appreciate, were he atheist (or secular humanist), his father jewish and mother gentile, then technically he could correctly claim not to be a jew in any sense.

We're all familiar with the classic question "What's in a name?", and we certainly know the jewish obsession with name games. So for what it's worth, I'll share what his choice of alias, "David Sutherland", suggested to me back at the time...

In our culture, the phrase "Great Southern land" refers to the Australian continent. "Southern land" morphs into the surname Sutherland.. and I can only speculate as to what mindset would choose to morph "Great" into "David"? ;-)

One thing for certain is the central hot-button issue for Razz since he first surfaced: A deep and impassioned hatred for the Vatican state, Papal power, and the Jesuits... and of course, very touchy regarding anyone's references to Zionism.

FYI: Excerpts from two posts to Conspiracy-Theory, Mar 28, 2003:

[...]

Vatican City is a country, it is a political State with an emperor and military force and all the other trappings of a political power.

Given its long history of murder, political intrigue, waging wars, crusades, cover-ups, sexual abuse of minors, disguised recruitment for sexual predators and homosexuals and its involvement in crimes against humanity, I see absolutely no reason why it cannot be an issue on a Conspiracy forum.

Razz.

[...]

There are different strains of Zionism, a little akin to Christian-ism where Mr Xtian 'A' believes he is the true Xtian rather than Mr Xtian 'B' who also professes to be the true Xtian.

Were it not for the influence Christian Zionists of the West (naught to do with Jews) the present day manufactured political State of Israel would not even exist; and they did so for their own ideological and hegemonic ends not in the interest of the Jews.

The Jewish Zionists came in on the tale end of things promising even their erstwhile virulent enemy the then pope, that they would hail him a 'messiah' in return for his support.

Razz.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Interesting stuff -- thanks for the background.

The most extraordinary thing about RD's posts is their absolute and total lack of grounding in Australian culture, issues and interests -- there is not even the minutest reference to such matters. Every single post comes back, in the ugliest way possible, to Israel's battles with a very large collection of enemies. I found myself wondering whether most Australians would find this kind of discourse to be useful or appetizing, and how it is doing any good for the cause and image of Israel.

RD has three times now claimed that he is not Jewish, while bashing Christianity and Islam and ferociously defending Israel and Judaism. He won't divulge what his own ethnicity and religious background are, or what particular ideology (or demons) drive him. There is quite a bundle of fascinating psychological and cultural issues here to try to understand.

There are a large number of RD's out there, scattered in nations all around the world, pushing exactly the same agenda with the same brutal and sadistic rhetorical style. How is it all going to end? Probably not well for anyone concerned.

Bond <Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Oh yes, I'm up-to date re Razz's exploits on CTRL and elsewhere. Three or four years ago I bounced him from my own group - unsurprisingly he was also functioning as an ADL-style zionist provocateur back then (btw, the ADL branch here is named the ADC - Anti-Defamation Council). IIRC, he was also agitating at that time (at least up until late Sept. 2003) under the name "David Sutherland" on Kris' CTRL AOL listserv.

With Australia's government now so deeply in bed with the Neocons, the rabid Zionist extremists such as Razz have come out of the closet like never before. Even our equivalent of the British BBC (the ABC) have shifted severely toward endlessly spouting pro-Neocon propaganda, and regularly present extremists such as Daniel Pipes (one of Razz's gods) as "non-partisan" experts ("independent authorities" from credible "think tanks") - mounting **no** criticism of their stated positions during interviews (very uncharacteristic of the ABC of the past).

Our Prime Minister has been back and forth to Washington like a yo-yo since 9/11 (he was actually in Washington that morning), our Rumsfeld counterpart, Alexander Downer did the mandatory tour of the Knesset and returned a devotee (Likudnik) - and in fact yesterday he was in Washington sharing caviar with Cheney and the usual suspects (possibly still there now).

Australia has been Neoconned.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:42 AM
Subject: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Bond,

If you get a chance, browse some of Razl Dazl's posts in the Yahoo Group CTRL.

Question: does RD sound like a real Australian to you? Are many Australians in a state of high emotional excitement about the Israeli interest, and completely oblivious to Australian issues and interests? RD sounds like he is signing in from a West Bank settlement, not from Australia, but perhaps there is a faction of these zealots on the Australian political scene.

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10e.: Re: Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:55 am (PST)

Hmm... again, interesting stuff indeed.

David -- King David?

You know, I have no problems at all with a reasoned critique of all religion in general, and of Roman Catholicism in particular, which has been guilty of quite a few sins, but RD's attacks on the Vatican cross the line by a mile into psychotic ravings. Furthermore, he regularly expands the attack on Roman Catholics to cover all Christians as a whole. He frames these attacks with the rhetoric of Enlightenment universalism.

But then he turns around and posts articles by authors like Dennis Prager who use Judaism in a positive way to buttress and justify Zionism. He spares Judaism from his attacks on Christianity and Islam, so clearly he is lying or severely confused when he claims to be an anti-religionist in the Enlightenment tradition (a tradition which I know a great deal about in a scholarly way).

To compound his problems, he refuses, or, what is more likely, is intellectually unable to explain or delve into any of these self-contradictions in a reasonable way. Even pointing out these matters will set him off into paroxysms of murderous rage. He is unable to engage in normal rational debate and discussion of any kind.

The bottom line? I've noticed over the years that Israel, the nation, and Zionism, the messianic ideology, tend to serve as a magnet for some of the most vicious fanatics on the planet -- they've "left behind" (pun intended) a long paper trail of many thousands of messages on Internet forums, among other places. This is one of the main reasons why I concluded some time ago that Zionism may well prove to be the most catastrophic false messianic movement in Jewish history and the trigger for the biggest explosion of anti-Semitism in world history. Israel's most enthusiastic allies in the United States are Christian Zionists, an anti-Christian cult which is also virulently anti-Semitic: this fact alone should be a tip-off that all is not well in the world of Zion.

I've never visited Australia, but I hope to (among other things, I am a beach fanatic and would love to explore Australia's beaches). I'm sure that RD is very far indeed from being a typical Australian. One would expect to run into someone like him in a West Bank settlement or parts of Brooklyn, New York.

Bond <Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
As you may appreciate, were he atheist (or secular humanist), his father jewish and mother gentile, then technically he could correctly claim not to be a jew in any sense.

We're all familiar with the classic question "What's in a name?", and we certainly know the jewish obsession with name games. So for what it's worth, I'll share what his choice of alias, "David Sutherland", suggested to me back at the time...

In our culture, the phrase "Great Southern land" refers to the Australian continent. "Southern land" morphs into the surname Sutherland.. and I can only speculate as to what mindset would choose to morph "Great" into "David"? ;-)

One thing for certain is the central hot-button issue for Razz since he first surfaced: A deep and impassioned hatred for the Vatican state, Papal power, and the Jesuits... and of course, very touchy regarding anyone's references to Zionism.

FYI: Excerpts from two posts to Conspiracy-Theory, Mar 28, 2003:

[...]

Vatican City is a country, it is a political State with an emperor and military force and all the other trappings of a political power.

Given its long history of murder, political intrigue, waging wars, crusades, cover-ups, sexual abuse of minors, disguised recruitment for sexual predators and homosexuals and its involvement in crimes against humanity, I see absolutely no reason why it cannot be an issue on a Conspiracy forum.

Razz.

[...]

There are different strains of Zionism, a little akin to Christian-ism where Mr Xtian 'A' believes he is the true Xtian rather than Mr Xtian 'B' who also professes to be the true Xtian.

Were it not for the influence Christian Zionists of the West (naught to do with Jews) the present day manufactured political State of Israel would not even exist; and they did so for their own ideological and hegemonic ends not in the interest of the Jews.

The Jewish Zionists came in on the tale end of things promising even their erstwhile virulent enemy the then pope, that they would hail him a 'messiah' in return for his support.

Razz.

----- Original Message -----

From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Interesting stuff -- thanks for the background.

The most extraordinary thing about RD's posts is their absolute and total lack of grounding in Australian culture, issues and interests -- there is not even the minutest reference to such matters. Every single post comes back, in the ugliest way possible, to Israel's battles with a very large collection of enemies. I found myself wondering whether most Australians would find this kind of discourse to be useful or appetizing, and how it is doing any good for the cause and image of Israel.

RD has three times now claimed that he is not Jewish, while bashing Christianity and Islam and ferociously defending Israel and Judaism. He won't divulge what his own ethnicity and religious background are, or what particular ideology (or demons) drive him. There is quite a bundle of fascinating psychological and cultural issues here to try to understand.

There are a large number of RD's out there, scattered in nations all around the world, pushing exactly the same agenda with the same brutal and sadistic rhetorical style. How is it all going to end? Probably not well for anyone concerned.

Bond <Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Oh yes, I'm up-to date re Razz's exploits on CTRL and elsewhere. Three or four years ago I bounced him from my own group - unsurprisingly he was also functioning as an ADL-style zionist provocateur back then (btw, the ADL branch here is named the ADC - Anti-Defamation Council). IIRC, he was also agitating at that time (at least up until late Sept. 2003) under the name "David Sutherland" on Kris' CTRL AOL listserv.

With Australia's government now so deeply in bed with the Neocons, the rabid Zionist extremists such as Razz have come out of the closet like never before. Even our equivalent of the British BBC (the ABC) have shifted severely toward endlessly spouting pro-Neocon propaganda, and regularly present extremists such as Daniel Pipes (one of Razz's gods) as "non-partisan" experts ("independent authorities" from credible "think tanks") - mounting **no** criticism of their stated positions during interviews (very uncharacteristic of the ABC of the past).

Our Prime Minister has been back and forth to Washington like a yo-yo since 9/11 (he was actually in Washington that morning), our Rumsfeld counterpart, Alexander Downer did the mandatory tour of the Knesset and returned a devotee (Likudnik) - and in fact yesterday he was in Washington sharing caviar with Cheney and the usual suspects (possibly still there now).

Australia has been Neoconned.

----- Original Message ----- From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:42 AM
Subject: [political-research] Militant Pro-Israelists and the Australian Political Scene

Bond,

If you get a chance, browse some of Razl Dazl's posts in the Yahoo Group CTRL.

Question: does RD sound like a real Australian to you? Are many Australians in a state of high emotional excitement about the Israeli interest, and completely oblivious to Australian issues and interests? RD sounds like he is signing in from a West Bank settlement, not from Australia, but perhaps there is a faction of these zealots on the Australian political scene.

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11.: Data Mining and Predictive Analysis: Intelligence Gathering and Crim

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:27 pm (PST)

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0750677961/>

Data Mining and Predictive Analysis: Intelligence Gathering and Crime Analysis is a comprehensive overview of the methods and uses of data mining and predictive analytics in crime and intelligence analysis. The book underscores the benefits of increased use of data mining among government and law enforcement agencies, and covers such topics as mapping criminal acts, detecting possible patterns, and using predictive tools to prevent future crimes and/or terrorist acts from occurring. Dr. McCues writing cuts through the technical language and jargon of other works on data mining, making it a useful training tool for new officers and agents entering the field.

Containing numerous case studies and computational techniques, Data Mining and Predictive Analysis focuses on the why and how of specific cases, while simultaneously addressing the limitless applications for data mining and predictive analytics in all crime and intelligence data analysis. By providing an overview of software packages and analytical tools, the book enables law enforcement managers and command staff to make informed decisions about the potential application, acquisition, and use of products and techniques.

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12.: FP Frontpage - The Israel Lobby

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:31 pm (PST)

The Walt/Mearsheimer Debate goes frontpage - FP issue July/August:

Foreign Policy used to have a nice half open policy. You always could
read a selection of the articles online for free. But this edition
needs no extra advertisement. We are too curious and will all get a
copy anyway.

-b

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3501&fpsrc=ealert060627

Political scientists John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt sparked a
firestorm when they raised questions about the power the Israel lobby
wields over U.S. foreign policy. Now, in an exclusive FP Roundtable,
they face off with four distinguished experts of the Middle East over
whether the influence of the Israel lobby is ordinary or extraordinary.

Unrestricted Access
By John J. Mearsheimer, Stephen M. Walt

An Uncivilized Argument
By Aaron Friedberg

The Mind-set Matters
By Dennis Ross

The Complex Truth
By Shlomo Ben-Ami

A Dangerous Exemption
By Zbigniew Brzezinski

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13.: Israeli Planes Attack Two Gaza Bridges

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:43 pm (PST)

http://hosted.ap
org/dynamic/stories/I/ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEF
ULT&CTIME=2006-06-27-19-23-5

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

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14.: Social Networking for Bookworms

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:20 pm (PST)

<http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115109622468789252.html>

Excerpt:

If bookcases are a way to casually display interests dear to the owner, the Internet throws open the doors on reading habits. Social-networking and book retailers' sites are already rife with lists of readers' favorite material, allowing people to compare notes on taste and compatibility.

But for Tim Spalding, a computer programmer and bibliophile, listing a few titles in an online profile isn't enough. He sought a way to catalog his entire book collection -- and to check out what was lining other people's shelves.

To satisfy his curiosity, Mr. Spalding created a Web site where members can create library-quality catalogs of the books they own and display their collection to fellow online bookshelf browsers. "When I come into someone's house, the first thing I do is look at their bookshelf," Mr. Spalding admits. "This is totally that thing -- it's books as mental furniture."

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15.: Bloglines - AP Wrongly Cites Scientists in Support of Al Gore's Movi

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:27 pm (PST)

BODY {background-color: white} body, div, p, th, td, li, dd,
code, tt { font-size: 10pt; font-family:
verdana,helvetica; white-space:wrap;} h2 {
font-size: 16px; margin: 0; color: 1393C0; }
.blogtitle { font-size: 16px; } Bloglines
<http://www.bloglines.com> user bill.giltner@gmail.com has sent
this item to you.

NewsBusters.org - Exposing Liberal Media Bias
<http://newsbusters.org/>
AP Wrongly Cites Scientists in Support of Al Gore's Movie
<http://newsbusters.org/node/6138> In Environment
The Republican majority on the U.S. Senate Committee on
Environment and Public Works released a joint press release
<http://www.epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=257909>
about an AP article entitled "Scientists OK Gore´s Movie
for Accuracy."
The press release takes issue with the scientists the AP cited,
as well as scientists it ignored.

The June 27, 2006 Associated Press (AP) article titled
"Scientists OK Gore´s Movie for Accuracy" by
Seth Borenstein raises some serious questions about AP´s
bias and methodology.

AP chose to ignore the scores of scientists who have harshly
criticized the science presented in former Vice President Al
Gore´s movie "An Inconvenient Truth."

In the interest of full disclosure, the AP should release the
names of the "more than 100 top climate
researchers" they attempted to contact to review
"An Inconvenient Truth." AP should also name all 19
scientists who gave Gore "five stars for accuracy."
AP claims 19 scientists viewed Gore´s movie, but it only
quotes five of them in its article. AP should also release the
names of the so-called scientific "skeptics" they
claim to have contacted.

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16a.: Fetzer on Colmes Radio Talk Show tonight (midnight eastern) talking

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:51 pm (PST)

(don't know if there's a online recording of Fetzer)

Huge Disappointment!

It's not that I say I know that Fetzer is intentionally discrediting. He
simply has negative PR skills, and I would be embarrassed to stand beside
him in a public forum.

Fetzer came off as looney with his dogmatic attitude, even being rude to
Colmes. I believe what Nico H. (he posted about Fetzer on with O.
North/Colmes) may be right. (Listening to Colmes by himself, his PR skills
don't seem so extraordinary either.)

Fetzer reminds me of Hufschmid, in terms of how he has he finger on the truth, but gives off an uncomfortable feeling (which I think others must get as well) when he presents himself.

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16b.: Re: Fetzer on Colmes Radio Talk Show tonight (midnight eastern) talk

Posted by: "Vigilius Haufniensis" nerdmann@earthlink.net concept_of_irony

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:18 am (PST)

lol, you say that about EVERYONE. except perhaps webfairy.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Giltner
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:20 AM
Subject: [political-research] Fetzer on Colmes Radio Talk Show tonight (midnight eastern) talking about 9/11

(don't know if there's a online recording of Fetzer)

Huge Disappointment!

It's not that I say I know that Fetzer is intentionally discrediting. He
simply has negative PR skills, and I would be embarrassed to stand beside
him in a public forum.

Fetzer came off as looney with his dogmatic attitude, even being rude to
Colmes. I believe what Nico H. (he posted about Fetzer on with O.
North/Colmes) may be right. (Listening to Colmes by himself, his PR skills
don't seem so extraordinary either.)

Fetzer reminds me of Hufschmid, in terms of how he has he finger on the truth, but gives off an uncomfortable feeling (which I think others must get as well) when he presents himself.

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006

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17.: Bloglines - Jimmy Walter presents 9/11 TV fakery evidence in L.A.

Posted by: "smcbride2@yahoo.com" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:12 pm (PST)

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code, tt { font-size: 10pt; font-family:
verdana,helvetica; white-space:wrap;} h2 {
font-size: 16px; margin: 0; color: 1393C0; }
.blogtitle { font-size: 16px; } Bloglines
<http://www.bloglines.com> user SeanMcBride
(smcbride2@yahoo.com) has sent this item to you.

911info <http://www.total911.info/index.html>
The place to find all the real cutting edge information, news,
and analysis on the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.
Jimmy Walter presents 9/11 TV fakery evidence in L.A.
<http://www.total911.info/2006/06/jimmy-walter-presents-911-tv-fa\
kery.html> By Total
Report via 911tvfakery blogspot June 25, 2006: ""...Jimmy Walter
showed two clips of 'flt 175' that 'hit' WTC2 ... the CNN clip
with the extreme closeup repeated several times, and the clip
where the reporter on the street disagrees with the guy in the
studio that there was any plane.....He pretty much just let the
videos do the talking. While we have been looking at these same
clips all this
Link
<http://911tvfakery.blogspot.com/2006/06/jimmy-walter-presents-91\
1-tv-fakery.html>

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18.: Bloglines - Israel legalizes torture

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:22 am (PST)

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.blogtitle { font-size: 16px; } Bloglines
<http://www.bloglines.com> user bill.giltner@gmail.com has sent
this item to you.

CRIMES AND CORRUPTIONS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER NEWS
<http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/>
CRIMES AND CORRUPTIONS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER NEWS -
LiveJournal.com Israel legalizes torture
<http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/9803515.html>
Last update - 22:57 27/06/2006
Knesset passes two amendments limiting security prisoners' rights
By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent
The Knesset approved in second and third readings on Tuesday two
significant criminal procedure law amendments designed to
facilitate the interrogation of security prisoners by the Shin
Bet security service.

The first amendment extends the amount of time a Shin Bet officer
or head of an interrogation team can hold a prisoner before the
prisoner must be brought before a judge.

Previously, the prisoner could not be held before being brought
before a judge for more then 48 consecutive hours. The amendment
allows the prisoner to be held for 96 hours if the interrogator
believes stopping questioning after 48 hours would harm the
investigation.

The decision to extend the interrogation beyond 48 hours will
require the approval of the Shin Bet interrogation department
head or deputy head.

The second amendment rules that the court will be permitted to
extend the remand of a suspect in a security-related offense for
up to 20 days in the absence of the suspect, if the court is
convinced that halting the suspect's interrogation to bring him
to court would jeopardize the investigation. However, the
suspect's attorney must be present in remand hearings.

The justice minister must update the Knesset Constitution, Law
and Justice Committee every six months regarding the
implementation of these amendments, including the number of
incidents that make use of the new regulations.

Pressure from Constitution Committee Chair Menachem Ben-Sasson
(Kadima) led Justice Ministry officials to remove from the bill a
clause that would allow the Shin Bet to prevent a security
prisoner from meeting with an attorney for up to 30 days.

The amendments to the law are a temporary order, and will expire
in 18 months. The Justice Ministry has pledged to pass a
counter-terrorism law within that time to replace the terror
directives upon which the current legislation leans.

Human rights organizations oppose the amendments vehemently,
charging they would eliminate the safeguards needed to protect
detainees' basic human rights. The Israel Bar Association and the
Public Defender's Office also object to the amendments.

The Public Committee Against Torture, which also opposes the
amendments, reported that allowing the discussion of the
extension of a suspect' remand in absentia represents a grave
regression from the basic principle that a person should not be
tried unless present.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?i\
temNo=732020
<http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?\
itemNo=732020>
Comments <http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/9803515.html>

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19.: Understanding the Messianic Personality Type

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:00 am (PST)

Understanding the Messianic Personality Type

Some key messianic groups and movements:

Chabad-Lubavitchers
Christian fundamentalists
Christian Zionists
Jewish fundamentalists
Maoists
Marxists
Muslim fundamentalists
Nazis
Stalinists
Zionists

Some key messianic personality traits:

authoritarian
autistic
genocidal
hostile to dissent
hostile to diversity
hostile to free inquiry
hostile to free speech
hostile to independent thinking
infantile
narcissistic
sadistic
sociopathic
strident
totalitarian
utopian
world destruction fantasies
world domination fantasies

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Thursday, June 29, 2006

[political-research] Digest Number 1276

Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)

Messages

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:09 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:12 am (PST)

Posted by: "better_off_said" better_off_said@yahoo.com better_off_said

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:17 am (PST)

Posted by: "Captain May" captainmay@prodigy.net cptmay

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:20 am (PST)

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:29 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:17 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:34 am (PST)

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:37 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:14 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:52 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:57 am (PST)

Posted by: "Bond" Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:31 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:56 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Bond" Bondj4007@yahoo.com.au

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:10 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:55 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:27 pm (PST)

Posted by: "LeaNder" l.l.hahn@web.de l_l_hahn

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:31 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:43 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:20 pm (PST)

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:27 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Bill Giltner" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:51 pm (PST)

Posted by: "Vigilius Haufniensis" nerdmann@earthlink.net concept_of_irony

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:18 am (PST)

Posted by: "smcbride2@yahoo.com" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:12 pm (PST)

Posted by: "bill.giltner@gmail.com" bill.giltner@gmail.com bgiltner

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:22 am (PST)

Posted by: "Sean McBride" smcbride2@yahoo.com smcbride2

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:00 am (PST)

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