Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Psalm 18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King James Version) From: JP Liggett
- 1b.
- Re: Psalm 18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King James Version) From: Timothy-Allen Albertson
- 2.
- Proof Positive From: Jolly Roger
- 5.
- A Day in the Life: 6/20/6 From: President, USA Exile Govt.
- 6a.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: sithgmail
- 6b.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: Nora Lenz
- 6c.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: Kevin Hammond
- 6d.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: rriverrapid
- 6e.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: JP Liggett
- 6f.
- Call for protest NYC From: JP Liggett
- 6g.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: Kevin Hammond
- 6h.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: Dick Eastman
- 6i.
- Re: Loose Change Nonsense From: Kevin Hammond
- 7.
- BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC samples... tvnl From: reggie501
- 9.
- Sniegoski: Israel Lobby Denial: The Bankruptcy of the Mainstream Le From: Dick Eastman
- 10a.
- Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h From: Dick Eastman
- 10b.
- Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h From: Dick Eastman
- 10c.
- Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h From: rriverrapid
- 11.
- Re: Chevez From: rriverrapid
- 12a.
- seen the photos -evidence of elements that do not incinerate into ga From: Judy Cunningham
- 12b.
- seen the photos -evidence of elements that do not incinerate into ga From: Judy Cunningham
- 13.
- I am thrown off another large list From: Dick Eastman
Messages
- 1a.
Re: Psalm 18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King James Version)
Posted by: "JP Liggett" mailto:JP@JPLiggett.com?Subject= jpliggett
Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:51 am (PST)
People believe that Arabs are the enemies of the US because that's what
they've been brainwashed into believing.
either brainwashed, or paid to believe, that the enemies of Israel are
enemies of the US. The establishment loves this sort of talk. carry on
camo soldier Tim. your efforts are extremely transparent, and off topic.
Are you ready to march on the media July 11th?
"Timothy-Allen
Albertson"
<camotim@gmail.co To
m> 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent by: cc
911TruthAction@ya jewish_from_ brooklyn@ yahoo.com
hoogroups.com Subject
Re: [911TruthAction] Re: Psalm
18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King
06/20/2006 10:43 James Version)
AM
Please respond to
911TruthAction@ya
hoogroups.com
you think you are going to get me to
change my opinion by calling me
brainwashed the best way in the
world is to piss me off is patronize me
the enemies of Israel are the enemies
of the US about the only arab state
which can be trusted is Kuwait and
they'd kill a pallie faster than Israel
btw, were your kin capos during the
holocaust?
On 6/20/06, jewish_from_brooklyn <jewish_from_ brooklyn@ > wrote:yahoo.com
--- In 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. , "Timothy-Allen Albertson"com
<camotim@...>
wrote:
>
> and that is what USCENTCOM is doing
> in its AOR to the enemies of the US
The enemies of Israel are not necessarily the enemies of the US.
The Arabs are getting mass-murdered because they are the enemies of
Israel.
People believe that Arabs are the enemies of the US because that's what
they've been brainwashed into believing.
J_from_B.
> On 6/20/06, jewish_from_brooklyn <jewish_from_ brooklyn@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn
> > again till they were consumed.
> >
> > I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen
under
> > my feet.
> >
> > For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast
subdued
> > under me those that rose up against me.
> >
> > Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might
destroy
> > them that hate me.
> >
> > They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but
> > he answered them not.
> >
> > Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast
them
> > out as the dirt in the streets.
> >
> > Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou
hast
> > made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall
> > serve me.
> >
> > As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall
submit
> > themselves unto me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Yahoo! Groups Links- 1b.
Re: Psalm 18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King James Version)
Posted by: "Timothy-Allen Albertson" mailto:camotim@gmail.com?Subject=
Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:51 am (PST)
go salute your photo shrine of uncle dolphie
On 6/20/06, JP Liggett <JP@jpliggett.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> People believe that Arabs are the enemies of the US because that's what
> they've been brainwashed into believing.
>
> either brainwashed, or paid to believe, that the enemies of Israel are
> enemies of the US. The establishment loves this sort of talk. carry on camo
> soldier Tim. your efforts are extremely transparent, and off topic.
>
> Are you ready to march on the media July 11th?
>
>
>
>
> *"Timothy-Allen Albertson" <camotim@gmail.com >*
> Sent by: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
>
> 06/20/2006 10:43 AM Please respond to
> 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
>
>
> To
>
> 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
> cc
>
> jewish_from_brooklyn@ yahoo.com
>
> Subject
>
> Re: [911TruthAction] Re: Psalm 18:37-44: "Kill your enemies" (King James
> Version)
>
> you think you are going to get me to
> change my opinion by calling me
> brainwashed the best way in the
> world is to piss me off is patronize me
>
> the enemies of Israel are the enemies
> of the US about the only arab state
> which can be trusted is Kuwait and
> they'd kill a pallie faster than Israel
>
> btw, were your kin capos during the
> holocaust?
>
>
> On 6/20/06, *jewish_from_brooklyn* <*jewish_from_ brooklyn@ *<jewish_from_yahoo.com brooklyn@ >>yahoo.com
> wrote:
>
> --- In *911TruthAction@yahoogroups. *<911TruthAction@com yahoogroups. >,com
> "Timothy-Allen Albertson" <camotim@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > and that is what USCENTCOM is doing
> > in its AOR to the enemies of the US
>
> The enemies of Israel are not necessarily the enemies of the US.
>
> The Arabs are getting mass-murdered because they are the enemies of
> Israel.
>
> People believe that Arabs are the enemies of the US because that's
> what
> they've been brainwashed into believing.
>
> J_from_B.
>
> > On 6/20/06, jewish_from_brooklyn <jewish_from_ brooklyn@ ...> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I
> turn
> > > again till they were consumed.
> > >
> > > I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are
> fallen under
> > > my feet.
> > >
> > > For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast
> subdued
> > > under me those that rose up against me.
> > >
> > > Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might
> destroy
> > > them that hate me.
> > >
> > > They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD,
> but
> > > he answered them not.
> > >
> > > Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did
> cast them
> > > out as the dirt in the streets.
> > >
> > > Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and
> thou hast
> > > made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known
> shall
> > > serve me.
> > >
> > > As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers
> shall submit
> > > themselves unto me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------- --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
- 2.
Proof Positive
Posted by: "Jolly Roger" mailto:removingheads@yahoo.com?Subject=Re: removingheads
Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:15 am (PST)
If a "fast-talking New Yorker" sells the Brooklyn Bridge to a newly arriving immigrant, the victim’s gullibility is not my problem, but in the case of 9-11, the gullibility of the fools who still believe in the Arab terrorist myth, and those who perpetuate the lies definitely are my problem, and in fact, they constitute the most dangerous problem we all face today. The lie has cost hundreds of thousands of lives (and counting). It has cost us our freedom and constitution, and it has allowed a tyrant in the White House to usurp dictatorial powers. This dictator happens to have bankrupted our nation in his ridiculous "war on terror," and is now trying to convince us that he’s above the law. His very existence is a slap in the face to everyone who has ever fought or struggled to preserve our freedom and constitution.
Because ignorance of 9-11 truth is everyone’s most dangerous problem right now, this gives us not only the right, but the duty to complain about it, and to complain quite strongly too. If we don’t insist on acceptance of 9-11 truth by everyone, our nation will be lost for the trifle of allowing idiots and cowards to remain in blissful ignorance.
The debates have ended. Professor Stephen Jones, of Brigham Young University has analyzed steel from the Twin Towers, and it has tested positive for thermite. Thermite is an explosive that can rapidly melt steel, and its presence on the steel from the World Trade Center is undisputable proof of U.S. government complicity in the 9-11 attacks. This is the smoking gun, with the fingerprint, and the end of all rebuttal.
There is no more time for argument, or for allowing people to wallow in denial. By this point in time, almost every aspect of what we were told about that day has been called into question, and much of it proven to be outright lies. Dr. Jones removed the last refuge of doubt, and has driven a stake through the denial that cowards have clung to. Everybody is now going to have to accept that 9-11 was an inside job, and failure to do so on the part of any person, publication, or website is absolute proof that they are in the business of spewing our government’s lies, and as such, they expose themselves as enemies United States of America, its people, and its constitution. The war begins NOW. Pick a side and get on it.
For those who still believe in the Al-Qaida boogeymen, how stupid are you that you would continue to believe people who’ve done nothing but lie to you? When do you finally pull your head out of your ass so the rest of us can go about getting our nation back? And since the F.B.I. claims they have "no hard evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 9-11," anyone who insists that "Al-Qaida" did it must be a terrorist themself if they know something the F.B.I. doesn’t.
For some, belief in the Al-Qaida myth has taken the form of a religion they’ve put their faith into, because looking at the actual facts is just too disturbing, and knowing the truth would upset their comfortable lives. These people are afraid of the truth, and may have to be physically slapped into accepting the harsh reality of our political environment. Considering what’s at stake, you would be perfectly justified in doing just that.
Others perpetuate the myth because it’s profitable, and these people don’t deserve to live at all. If they would aid the perpetrators of mass murder just to make a few bucks, they need to have their heads tossed.
And no journalist can be excused because "they were just doing their job." Journalists have certain moral obligations like the rest of us, and if their job involves deceiving the American people to facilitate the subversion of the United States constitution, they are enemies of this nation, and its people. They knowingly lied to send innocent kids to their deaths instead of finding honest work like the rest of us. The goon who breaks knee-caps for the Mafia is also "just doing his job," but when he’s caught, he goes to jail. All these goons combined have caused much less suffering than the journalists who deceived us into our most shameful of wars. Good American boys with the guts to fight for our freedom were sent to a hell of genocide, torture, and depleted uranium because of the journalists’ deceit. I hope the journalists and their bosses get what they have coming.
Nor should you tolerate the lie of omission being spouted by people in the truth movement who seek to put all the blame on Bush and Cheney. This will only allow the puppet-masters to escape, and insure that nothing changes after the patsies are jailed. There is a mountain of evidence that points to the Israelis, and you’re not an "anti-semite" for saying so, any more than you could be called an anti-anglo for saying Tony Blair is the lying weasel that he is. The Israeli / Zionist connection is an all important aspect of 9-11 truth, because they’re pulling the strings in our government, and allowing them to escape will allow the deception to continue. Anyone trying to hide Israeli involvement is only providing cover for the criminals on the top of the totem pole.
I’m not asking you to storm the White House, or lynch your congressman (not yet, anyway). All I ask is that you stop wasting time and talk about 9-11 to everyone you know, and don’t let the subject be swept under the rug. It’s time to yell it in their face, and in fact, it’s your civic duty as a patriotic American to do so. Absolute proof is now on your side. Remember: you’re not a "tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist" – there was thermite on the beams, and that can only mean one thing. 9-11 was an inside job, and the time for debate has ended. – Jolly Roger
BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC Physical Samples, Building Collapses an Inside Job
http://portland.indymedia. org/en/2006/ 06/341238. shtml
FBI says, ""No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11""
http://www.teamliberty.net/id267. html
Please forward this to as many people as you can.
--------------------- --------- ---
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--------------------- --------- ---
Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.
- 3.
see superfluous conflicts/misdirections for what they are/perform!
Posted by: "smacko" mailto:smacko9@comcast.net?Subject=Re: drsmacko
Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:20 am (PST)
- 4.
Is such an example of slight-of-hand obfuscation mitigating the acco
Posted by: "smacko" mailto:smacko9@comcast.net?Subject=Re: drsmacko
Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:26 am (PST)
Is such an example of slight-of-hand obfuscation mitigating the accountability sought?
http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/911TruthAc tion/message/ 25455?l=1
do you see It?
Q;o)
- 5.
A Day in the Life: 6/20/6
Posted by: "President, USA Exile Govt." mailto:prez@usa-exile.org?Subject=Re:
Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:53 am (PST)
GOVERNMENT OF THE USA IN EXILE
Free Americans
Reaching Out to Amerika's Huddled Masses Yearning to Breathe Free
Via <prez@usa-exile.org >
June 20, 2006
Dear Friends and Colleagues,
From my perspective as a US army officer in '53-'54 and as a
journalist accredited to NATO in '57, I must say Paul Craig Roberts'
prophecies below strike me as quite lucid.
Please do whatever you can to spread the word about the Bush
Junta's vicious plans for Iran. Door-to-door canvassing?
Yours for all species,
Keith Lampe, Ro-Non-So-Te
Ponderosa Pine
Transition Prez
--------------------- --------- --------- ---
From: "Ronald" <bleier.r@gmail.com >
Date: June 19, 2006 8:35:39 PM EST
To: "Bleier at Yahoo" <rbaigc@yahoo.com >
Subject: [911TruthAction] *P.C. Roberts: Bush's Armageddon Wish
Paul Craig Roberts is of course correct when he writes that the
neocons, Bush, Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld are the epitome of evil. The
comparison he draws to Hitler is also apt. All you have to do is say:
unprovoked aggression. Roberts thinks the Bush team is determined to
nuke Iran but if you look at Roberts' rationale:
The neocons are determined not to have any more embarrassments, such as
the Iraqi insurgency. By nuking Iran they intend to send a wider
message that the US will use every means at its disposal to ensure its
hegemony. The neocons believe that the use of nukes will convince Arabs
and the wider world that there is no recourse to accepting America's
will.
It doesn't add up. Number 1. The Bush clique planned for and created
the Iraqi insurgency asa rationale to stay in Iraq indefinitely.
2. The Arabs and the wider world are already aware of America's
power. Nuking Iran would show more weakness and stupidity than
anything else. Yes, they want to hit Iran hard and they will if they
can get away with it, but my guess is that they are saving the nukes
for the big one: the war against China and Russia. They're not afraid
of the rest of the world combining against them; indeed, quite the
opposite: they're trying to make that happen and they're planning for
it. Their agenda is permanent war. As with Hitler, it's suicidal.
A a lot of this will make more sense to people who are already
convinced thet 9/11 was an inside job. For those who still aren't so
convinced, try asking yourself: how did those 3 skyscrapers come down
in their own footprint -- at the speed of gravity. Fires don't do that
to steel framed buildings. Physics just doesn't work that way. And the
first Tower came down in 56 minutes, no less. Just look at the videos:
the fires were going out.
For those open to this information and would like to learn more,
perhaps the first article to read is S.E. Jones, Why Indeed did the
buildings collapse?
http://wtc7.net/articles/ stevenjones_ b7.html
Also utterly convincing is Prof Jones's seminar on the subject
available as a free video at:
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/ 02/dr-steven- jones-utah- seminar-
video.html
Once people understand the deep seated and vicious ruthlessness of
Bush, Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld, they will have a better understanding
of current reality and our future prospects. This is not realpolitik,
with nation states looking out for their best interests. This
crew wants war for war's sake. The truly mad are in power.
--- Ronald Bleier
--------------------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
June 12, 2006
www.counterpunch.org
A Final End to History?
Bush's Armageddon Wish
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
John Bolton, a notorious neocon warmonger who could not be confirmed as
America's ambassador to the UN by even the compliant and corrupt US
Senate, got the job as a recess appointment. He is using the platform
to push America into war with Iran.
Bolton told the Financial Times (June 9) that the Bush Regime has no
intention of reaching an agreement with Iran. Time is running out for
diplomacy, Bolton told the Financial Times. Iran has a short time
remaining in which it can give up its right under the non-proliferation
treaty to enrich uranium for nuclear energy or be attacked. Bolton said
that US security guarantees for Iran "were not on the table."
There is no evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. Every
physicist knows that the enrichment requirement for weapons is many
times greater than for nuclear energy and that Iran can barely achieve
the latter. Despite the facts, Bolton told the Financial Times:
"They've [Iran] got both feet on the accelerator, which is why we have
a sense of urgency. Each day that goes by gives Iran more time to
continue to perfect its efforts for mass production."
Bolton is lying through his teeth. Bush Regime lies about Iraqi weapons
of mass destruction and propagandistic references to mushroom clouds
convinced the befuddled American public to accept an illegal invasion
of Iraq. The same collection of neocon war criminals is again deceiving
the American public about Iran.
In his remarks to the Financial Times, Bolton shows himself to be
extremely disturbed by the prospect that the diplomatic efforts of
Europe, Russia, and China could undermine the Bush Regime's plan to
attack Iran. Bolton is doing everything possible to make certain that
there is no diplomatic solution.
To help undermine any prospect for peace in the Middle East, Israeli
gunboats shelled a public beach and killed or wounded 50 Palestinians.
This was done in order to provoke Hamas into abandoning the
long-established cease-fire that Hamas had imposed in the interest of
negotiating a Palestinian settlement.
The Israeli government succeeded, and now there will a resurgence of
"Hamas terrorism" that Bolton and his neocon compatriots can use to
build a frightening spectacle of Muslim terrorism.
The Bush/Olmert axis-of-evil have made it clear that "we don't want no
stinking peace."
Writing in Antiwar.com (June 10), University of California Professor
Jorge Hirsch explains the tripwire that the Bush Regime has laid for
Iran in order to have an excuse to launch an attack on that country.
Just as the Bush Regime planned to attack Iraq and then orchestrated a
case based on lies, the Bush Regime has already planned to attack Iran.
Only this time nuclear weapons will be used.
Nuking Iran is an essential part of the attack plan. The US lacks the
necessary conventional military force to invade and occupy Iran, but
the use of nuclear weapons against Iran has a wider purpose. The
neocons are determined not to have any more embarrassments, such as the
Iraqi insurgency. By nuking Iran they intend to send a wider message
that the US will use every means at its disposal to ensure its
hegemony. The neocons believe that the use of nukes will convince Arabs
and the wider world that there is no recourse to accepting America's
will.
The neoconservatives could not care less about public opinion. Neocons
are contemptuous of the American people. Leo Strauss taught neocons
that it was their duty to deceive the clueless American people in order
to implement their agenda of global domination. The neocons believe
that they have a perfect right, even the obligation, to manipulate the
public through propaganda and black ops in order to create acceptance
and support for their wars of aggression.
The neocons are the epitome of evil, and they have succumbed to hubris.
Like Hitler when he attacked the Soviet Union, neocons believe that
their manipulative skills and use of military power will carry the day
for their agenda. Hitler's hubris doomed Germany to destruction. What
price will America pay for neocon hubris?
When the neocon nazis nuke Iran it will revive memories in Japan and
break the US-Japanese alliance. Japan owns enough US Treasury bonds to
be able to destroy both the US dollar and the market for Washington's
endless red ink. Russia, China, India, and even our European lackeys
will have it forcefully brought home to them that the US is an
out-of-control rogue nation. They will unify against us. Most likely
our bought and paid for puppets in the MIddle East will fall, and
Islamic leaders will gain Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Al Qaeda will
gain tens of millions of recruits.
Francis Fukuyama's phrase, "the end of history" takes on new meaning.
__._
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= =======
----------
Bush's America Opposes Verifiable Ban on Nuclear Fission
by Michael Carmichael
June 20, 2006
planetarymovement.org/
In 2005, Mohammad El Baradei was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his
outstanding work in the international control of nuclear weapons. In
2003, El Baradei had proposed a verifiable ban on the production of
weapons grade fissile material - a positive move that would severely
limit the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
In a vote of the Disarmament Committee of the United Nations (UN), one
and only one nation voted against El Baradei's proposal - George Bush's
America. In that same vote, Israel abstained, apparently fearing
international interference with their own outlaw nuclear weapons
programme, and Britain abstained in an act of diplomatic fealty to the
'special relationship' between Tony Blair and George Bush. The final
tally was 147 nations to one with the two abstentions. In a later vote
of the entire UN General Assembly, Israel and Britain abstained, while
America and Palau voted against El Baradei's verifiable ban on fission,
and 179 nations voted in favor of his proposal. The final vote on that
occasion was 179 in favor, 2 opposed (US and Palau) and 2 abstentions
(Israel and Britain).
El Baradei's proposal would monitor all nuclear fission and guarantee
that non-nuclear weapons states would be able to obtain adequate
supplies for their non-military usage of enriched plutonium.
One nation has publicly accepted El Baradei's proposal, Iran.
In light of this important back story, it is now perfectly obvious that
the so-called 'negotiations' between America, its intermediaries and
Iran have been designed to camouflage, distort and erase the historical
record. America and Israel are opposed to El Baradei's proposal for a
verifiable ban on nuclear fission (Fissban) apparently to prevent the
intrusion of international inspectors into the Israeli nuclear
industry.
Worryingly, the Bush White House has deliberately misled the American
people concerning their suspicion of a threat from Iran. The Bush
campaign against Iran is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
Given the facts of the highly publicized "Iran Plans" for a massive
American military intervention against the Iranian nuclear industry and
the constant threat of bombing of Iran leveled by American authorities
from George Bush and Condoleezza Rice to Richard Perle and John Bolton,
it is equally clear that American policy is being driven by a
Machiavellian political calculus.
Over the past two weeks there have been a chain of interlocked events:
the execution of Zarqawi; the Camp David summit on Iraq; Bush's secret
flight to Baghdad and the narrow escape of Karl Rove from federal
indictment in the Valerie Plame case. These events are fitting into a
discernible pattern designed to resuscitate the dying political corpse
of the Bush administration in time for the midterm elections this
November.
Continuing weakness of the Bush administration as measured by the
president's approval rating will embolden those proponents for the
unilateral bombardment of Iran's nuclear industry as a measure that
could precipitate the resurgence of the deeply unpopular president.
With so little left to lose, Bush would press the button for war in
hopes of gaining the approval in red state America where his political
fate will be decided on the 6th of November.
Darker plans may even be afoot or so we are led to believe by scholars
of the US intelligence industry. The former CIA official, Ray
McGovern, has warned of 'staged' atrocities as part of a covert US
programme for the manufacture of 'synthetic terror.' Robert Woodward
warned an academic audience in Texas that the next major atrocity on US
soil would reduce 9/11 to a footnote in world history. There are
persistent back-channel rumors of Republican Party officials
circulating memoranda longing for the return to the heady days in 2001
and the immediate aftermath of 9/11 to revive the ailing Bush
presidency - even at the cost of a new 9/11.
Neither America's people nor the peoples of other nations are being
adequately informed about the history of international planning for the
control and ban on fissionable materials that are the essential
ingredients for nuclear weapons. The global media is complicit in the
increasing threats to peace of a deeply unpopular American president
and his loyal cadre of neoconservative apparatchiks now threatening the
future of the planet with a holocaust of gigantic proportions.
Michael Carmichael is Chairman & Chief Executive Officer, The Planetary
Movement, Oxford, United Kingdom.
Website www.planetarymovement.org
References:
A negotiated solution to the Iranian nuclear crisis is within reach
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis free/story/ 0,,1800659, 00.html
GOP memo touts new terror attack as way to reverse party's decline
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/ artman/publish/ article_7639. shtml
Woodward warns of secrecy trend / 9/11 will be a footnote
http://www.mysanantonio.com/ news/education/ stories/
MYSA022206.01B.woodward. 129cfa8d. html
Schlesinger on Bush's next folly: Iran
http://planetmove.blogspot. com/2006/ 04/schlesinger- on-bushs- next-folly-
iran.html
Former CIA Analyst Says Iran Strike Possibly Set For June Or July
http://www.informationclearinghouse .info/article134 81.htm
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are the sole
responsibility of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of
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===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
===================== ========= ========= =========
From: "JP Liggett" <JP@JPLiggett.com >
Date: June 19, 2006 9:47:01 PM EST
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [911TruthAction] MSNBC SC show - 911 used as a teaser - piece
aired 9:54
They gave Mike Berger of 911truth.org a fair shot to start. they played
about 15 seconds of pentagon strike. Mike Berger was allowed the wtc 7
footage, but he was subject to shouting by the host. The host made sure
to make it seem like the "theorists" had nothing substantial in
evidence, "give me your best shot, is that all you've got" while
talking over mike berger's response. about 3-4 minutes for Mike. then
to some lackey "terrorism analyst" so lame that repeated the "official
fema and nist reports prove..." blah blah blah. You should have seen
the looks in these guys eyes, after mike was turned off. really creepy.
Anyone who can read facial expressions would see the truth being
suppressed.
in sum, a real hatchet job. kudos to Mike, he was able to get some
great points across.
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========
NOTE: Thanks to Peter Myers for the next two. -- kl, pp
(1) Beach Deaths: No International Probe, Says Olmert
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:17:24 -0700 From: Jeff Blankfort
<jblankfort@earthlink.net >
"We will never agree to become subject to an investigation by
international bodies," Olmert told ministers during a weekly cabinet
meeting."
Numerous Israelis have said over the years that international law does
not apply to them and thanks to the power of their lobbies, not only in
the US, but also in the UK and Western Europe and over the UN's Koffi
Annan, they have been able to get away with breaking it with impunity.
At this point, far, far late in the game, there needs to be a litmus
test applied to those who claim to be against Israel's continuing
occupation of Palestinian land and killing of its inhabitants. Simply
criticizing Israel, no matter how emphatically and how detailed is not
enough and, in fact, is meaningless, unless that person also supports
boycotts, divestment and sanctions. That this litmus test has never
been applied and has been rejected when suggested (under the illusion
of building a "united front") is one major reason that the Palestine
solidarity movement has been a failure to date. If that litmus test is
not to be applied now, those opposing it should explain why.
http://www.news24.com/News24/ World/News/ 0,,2-10-1462_ 1953601,00. html
NOTE: Cindy's gesture below is quite a good one and I hope it receives
wide support within the (lamentably conventional) US anti-war movement.
The analogous gesture within the old anti-Vietnam-war movement
occurred in '67 with Noam Chomsky and Benjamin Spock as the main
spokespersons for it. -- kl, pp
(6) 'Peace Mom' Cindy Sheehan supports American military deserters in
Canada
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: James Morris
<justicequest2000@yahoo.com >
June 17, 2006
'Peace Mom' Cindy Sheehan supports American military deserters in
Canada
http://www.slate.com/id/2124788/ sidebar/2124791/
http://representativepress.blogspot .com/2005/ 08/cindy- sheehan-mother- -
of-spc-casey.html
Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan greets U.S. military deserters during a
rally in Fort Erie, Ontario, on Saturday. The person in the foreground
is wearing a U.S. military uniform. All the deserters had served in
Iraq. (CP/AP/Don Heupel)
FORT ERIE, Ont. (AP) - A group of American military deserters publicly
embraced their new lives in Canada on Saturday with the support of
"peace mom" Cindy Sheehan, who said she wished the son she lost in Iraq
was among them.
"I begged him not to go to Iraq," the anti-war activist said through
tears at a rally in support of the former soldiers, who wore black
T-shirts emblazoned with "AWOL." "And I wish he was standing up here
with these people because he didn't want to go."
Sheehan was making her second visit to Canada in support of sanctuary
for those fleeing the U.S. military.
Canada has so far denied political asylum to U.S. soldiers who have
sought it but appeals are pending.
"They're trying to deport me," said Darrell Anderson of Lexington, Ky.,
who arrived in Canada by way of Niagara Falls in January 2005. He spent
seven months in Iraq with the Army's 1st Armoured Division and received
a purple heart following a roadside bomb attack before deciding during
a leave he would not go back.
"When I was in Iraq, we were killing innocent people for oil. It was
obvious they didn't want us there," said Anderson, 24, who is
petitioning to remain in Canada.
The gathering at a park in the town of Fort Erie, across the border
from Buffalo, N.Y., was organized by peace groups on both sides of the
border. About 20 former U.S. soldiers, referred to as war resisters,
have applied for refugee status in Canada. Organizers estimated there
may be as many as 200 soldiers in the country who have not yet sought
formal protection.
"They say we're traitors, we're deserters," said former Marine Chris
Magaoay, 20, of the Hawaiian island of Maui. "No, I'm a Marine and I
stand up for what I believe in, and I believe the Constitution of the
United States of America is being pushed aside as a scrap piece of
paper."
The soldiers thanked Canadians for their hospitality and were cheered
by about 100 in an audience that included Iraq veterans opposed to the
war and Vietnam-era resisters who sought refuge in Canada decades
earlier.
"I know that their choice has been difficult but I know that they made
the right choice," said Bruce Beyer, who spent five years in Canada as
a draft resister during Vietnam.
"I know that they miss their family and their friends that they're cut
off from," Beyer said. "But I know that you Canadians have stepped up
and stood behind them and I thank you from the bottom of my heart."
-- Peter Myers, 381 Goodwood Rd, Childers 4660, Australia ph +61 7
41262296 http://users.cyberone. Mirror:com.au/myers
http://mailstar.net/index. I use the old Mac OS; beinghtml
incompatible, it cannot run Windows viruses or transmit them to you. To
unsubscribe, reply with "unsubscribe" in the subject line; allow 1 day.
If your emails to me bounce, write to me at Peter.Myers@mailstar. net
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= =======
From: Bugs <brawny@twlakes.net >
Date: June 20, 2006 8:44:06 AM EST
To: hc <hcyoungdemocrats@yahoogroups. >,com
911truthaction@yahoogroups. , FIREBASEVOICE@com yahoogroups. ,com
kentuckydemocrat@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Chevez
Reply-To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
From: MaryMacElveen [mailto:Mary@vheadline.com ]
: what about the current view Chavez has towards US?
I am all for the socialist trade agreement that President Chavez has
made with Cuba. Socialism is not a bad thing, where profits go into
social programs that help people and not hurt them. Just look at what
programs President Chavez has implemented over the years. Opening up
1,100 feeding centers for the poor, free health care, eye surgeries
through ‘Mission Miracle’, increase of pay for the teachers, increase
in their minimum wage, rebuilding roads, building hospitals, training
doctors and so many other notable programs. Where do the profits of
our mega-corporations go? They go into the pockets of the CEOs and the
shareholders with little being done for the poor and working class.
The last minimum wage increase was back in 1996 and this is okay with
the American people? Now compare what has been done for the American
people. Absolutely nothing. Just before Christmas cuts were made to
Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, and student loans.
Why all the fuss over Cuba? Yes, it is communist, but let us not
forget that we do business with China. Four percent of China’s gross
national product comes from products that are sold at Wal-Mart. When
we look to borrow money, we go to China. We are in debt to China at an
astounding rate and we are worried about Cuba? Now just imagine if you
will, we piss off China, and they call in those loans? We are sunk and
it will be far worse than the crash of 1929. It will make that crash
look like a walk in the park. With the way Bush has pissed off so many
countries, I am surprised that this has not happened by now.
Yes, I do support the United States. You may be saying that through my
pieces I do not, but that is categorically false. I separate the
governmental policies from the country itself. We have the ability to
be a great country, but we do not have socially responsible leaders
stewarding her. Some are furious over the illegal immigration issue,
but they forget that the biggest drain on their tax dollars are the tax
give aways to the corporations’ also known as corporate welfare. We
bail out this industry and that industry when they have not been
fiscally responsible. What about the pork barrel spending that
continues to this day? In one such infrastructure bill passed last
year, our government paid for a road expansion project for Wal-Mart and
it cost the tax payer $37 million dollars. Our elected officials tack
on these pork projects to bill after bill and most of them do not get
reported. Quite frankly, I would love nothing more if we were to stop
making more bombs and using that money to feed the poor and middle
class. I would love it if we were to have free medical care for all.
Many industrial nations have health care for all, but we do not.
People scoff at the notion of free health care; but where is their
voice when it comes to the billions upon billions of dollars funding
the military industrial complex? Just how many nuclear war heads do we
need?
Now as far as democracy, I do support that. But, when you have
computerized voting machines that have been tampered with beyond a
shadow of a doubt: Where is the democracy there? Where is the
democracy when millions of people protested this Iraq War on February
15th, 2003 and this government refused to listen to us? By the way, I
was in New York City for that protest. Now you question me about my
stance on democracy after reading my articles on VHeadline.com and
while you may see President Chavez as a dictator, he is far from being
that. He is a democratically elected president who won by 59% of the
vote in the last election and has an approval rating which stands at
80%. Some see him (President Chavez) as being a threat, me I see Bush
who has stated of Iran that “all options are on the table” which
includes nuclear weaponry as being more of a threat. Should we use
these bunker busters, we stand to kill millions of people beyond Iran’s
borders. So, who is the bigger threat?
I hope that this answers your questions.
Sincerely,
Mary MacElveen
Columnist for VHeadline.com
----------
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
===================== ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
- 6a.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "sithgmail" mailto:ansith@gmail.com?Subject= gwenddyddwyllt
Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:27 am (PST)
Nora Wrote:
" The people who are inclined to view a video like Loose Change 2 would be
far better off seeing one that reports on the facts and factual evidence
without straying into the land of speculation and fantasy (and worse), and
now that this video has confused and mislead them, very few will be in a
position to tell the difference between fact and fantasy. A third video won
t fix this. Your friend's heart may be in the 'right place' but if he was
used as a vehicle for spreading confusion, harm was done through him and
this needs to be acknowledged. I appreciate that he's willing to put lots
of work into exposing the truth but I think in the end he's doing more harm
than good"
What?!? "If he was used as a vehicle for spreading confusion,...." Used?
Used by whom? Are you insinuating that CoIntelPro weaseled into Dylan's head
and then "used" him as a disinfo operative??
I can understand being paranoid in today's world, but c'mon already.
Jim Hoffman changes his mind every other week, too. Does that make him more
credible? He came out and said that some of the information HE was putting
forth before was wrong and he changed his story.. isn't that the same thing
you are accusing Dylan of doing? Yet, its ok when Hoffman does it? Why? lol
Why do so many in this "movement" spend time ripping everyone else to shreds
instead of getting out there and doing something constructive?
Every day there are more and more posts "so and so is disinfo.. so and so is
cointelpro" bla bla bla freaking bla.
Are you also so sure that everyone who sees LC2 is completely incapable of
rational thought when researching the information in the film as to not be
able to separate "fact from fiction"? "The people that are inclined to view
a video like Loose Change....very few will be in a position to tell the
difference between fact and fantasy." Are people that are inclined to watch
loose change stupid or something? Is there a certain socio-economic class
that is more likely to view the film than another that is unable to
comprehend it? What exactly are you saying there?
Yes, there are errors in LC2. We know that. Dylan knows it. Dylan is working
to rectify that. But, LC2 has accomplished a lot of GOOD as well. It has led
many people to begin researching 9/11. Which, by the way, is the point of
the film! "Ask questions! Investigate! Look at these odd coincidences and
research them!" And that is exactly what it causes MANY people to do.
I don't see how you can say that he's doing more harm than good. He's even
got the attention of the British Parliament.. how much good have you done?- 6b.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" mailto:nmlenz@speakeasy.net?Subject= rawnora
Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:05 am (PST)
Dear Anonymous,
Many of the people who view 9/11 videos at the behest of their enlightened loved ones, friends, associates, etc., will only grant one opportunity to convince them that there's something amiss in the official 9/11 story. Choosing to show them LC2 means risking that they will be overwhelmed and confused by fantastic, unbelievable scenarios and complicated, unlikely sub-plots that lead them away from the truth that is plainly in view and requires no explanation! When we have the opportunity to educate others, there are far better ways than to show them LC2. Jim Hoffman's recently released video is one of them, as it sticks to provable, reproducible, factual evidence and deliberately avoids the speculative nonsense that LC2 mires itself in. Mr. Hoffman does not "change his mind every week", and such an exaggerated accusation exposes an emotional bias on your part.
I wouldn't hazard a guess as to who is responsible for the direction that LC2 took (if it's not, as you say, your friend Dylan), and it's not my business to speculate about that. It's only my desire to point out that the video is a failure if its intent was to educate people about the plainly factual evidence that indicts government complicity in 9/11. I wish it wasn't true that most people can't tell the difference between fact and fantasy, but the popularity that LC2 enjoys within the 9/11 truth movement proves that discerning minds are few and far between.
Nora
----- Original Message -----
From: sithgmail
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Loose Change Nonsense
Nora Wrote:
" The people who are inclined to view a video like Loose Change 2 would be far better off seeing one that reports on the facts and factual evidence without straying into the land of speculation and fantasy (and worse), and now that this video has confused and mislead them, very few will be in a position to tell the difference between fact and fantasy. A third video won't fix this. Your friend's heart may be in the 'right place' but if he was used as a vehicle for spreading confusion, harm was done through him and this needs to be acknowledged. I appreciate that he's willing to put lots of work into exposing the truth but I think in the end he's doing more harm than good"
What?!? "If he was used as a vehicle for spreading confusion,...." Used? Used by whom? Are you insinuating that CoIntelPro weaseled into Dylan's head and then "used" him as a disinfo operative??
I can understand being paranoid in today's world, but c'mon already.
Jim Hoffman changes his mind every other week, too. Does that make him more credible? He came out and said that some of the information HE was putting forth before was wrong and he changed his story.. isn't that the same thing you are accusing Dylan of doing? Yet, its ok when Hoffman does it? Why? lol
Why do so many in this "movement" spend time ripping everyone else to shreds instead of getting out there and doing something constructive?
Every day there are more and more posts "so and so is disinfo.. so and so is cointelpro" bla bla bla freaking bla.
Are you also so sure that everyone who sees LC2 is completely incapable of rational thought when researching the information in the film as to not be able to separate "fact from fiction"? "The people that are inclined to view a video like Loose Change....very few will be in a position to tell the difference between fact and fantasy." Are people that are inclined to watch loose change stupid or something? Is there a certain socio-economic class that is more likely to view the film than another that is unable to comprehend it? What exactly are you saying there?
Yes, there are errors in LC2. We know that. Dylan knows it. Dylan is working to rectify that. But, LC2 has accomplished a lot of GOOD as well. It has led many people to begin researching 9/11. Which, by the way, is the point of the film! "Ask questions! Investigate! Look at these odd coincidences and research them!" And that is exactly what it causes MANY people to do.
I don't see how you can say that he's doing more harm than good. He's even got the attention of the British Parliament.. how much good have you done?- 6c.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "Kevin Hammond" mailto:sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com?Subject= sir_oglaigh
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:31 pm (PST)
Actually, Hoffman HAS changed his mind one more than just one account. Also, I have seen Loose change wake up MANY people and get them motivated. I personally believe that it Does have its faults but so do a lot of other films. Including Don and Jim's film. I have interviewed BOTH of them on my show and appreciate their vital work. They AINT the ONLY apples on the tree of information though They both for unexplained thing ANYONE should try to do is to CONTROL ME. That is unless ofcourse they want to piss me off. I wondfer if these men are actually trying to save lives, or rather to feed their own egos. All of the time that is spent trashing other people's work can be spent actually getting OUT THERE and waking people UP. Personally, I think that both pieces of work or of importance. It pains me to say these things because I have considored Don Paul to be a relatively close friend. More people need to worry MORE about just getting What they considor to be
the so-called RIGHT information OUT THERE as opposed to mental masterbation. I am sick and fucking TIRED of it. Perhaps if more folks WERE concerned with REAL activism as opposed being RIGHT the country would be AWAKE!
Kevin
P.S. stop talking and DO SOMETHING!
Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy.net > wrote:
Dear Anonymous,
Many of the people who view 9/11 videos at the behest of their enlightened loved ones, friends, associates, etc., will only grant one opportunity to convince them that there's something amiss in the official 9/11 story. Choosing to show them LC2 means risking that they will be overwhelmed and confused by fantastic, unbelievable scenarios and complicated, unlikely sub-plots that lead them away from the truth that is plainly in view and requires no explanation! When we have the opportunity to educate others, there are far better ways than to show them LC2. Jim Hoffman's recently released video is one of them, as it sticks to provable, reproducible, factual evidence and deliberately avoids the speculative nonsense that LC2 mires itself in. Mr. Hoffman does not "change his mind every week", and such an exaggerated accusation exposes an emotional bias on your part.
I wouldn't hazard a guess as to who is responsible for the direction that LC2 took (if it's not, as you say, your friend Dylan), and it's not my business to speculate about that. It's only my desire to point out that the video is a failure if its intent was to educate people about the plainly factual evidence that indicts government complicity in 9/11. I wish it wasn't true that most people can't tell the difference between fact and fantasy, but the popularity that LC2 enjoys within the 9/11 truth movement proves that discerning minds are few and far between.
Nora
----- Original Message -----
From: sithgmail
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Loose Change Nonsense
Nora Wrote:
" The people who are inclined to view a video like Loose Change 2 would be far better off seeing one that reports on the facts and factual evidence without straying into the land of speculation and fantasy (and worse), and now that this video has confused and mislead them, very few will be in a position to tell the difference between fact and fantasy. A third video won't fix this. Your friend's heart may be in the 'right place' but if he was used as a vehicle for spreading confusion, harm was done through him and this needs to be acknowledged. I appreciate that he's willing to put lots of work into exposing the truth but I think in the end he's doing more harm than good"
What?!? "If he was used as a vehicle for spreading confusion,...." Used? Used by whom? Are you insinuating that CoIntelPro weaseled into Dylan's head and then "used" him as a disinfo operative??
I can understand being paranoid in today's world, but c'mon already.
Jim Hoffman changes his mind every other week, too. Does that make him more credible? He came out and said that some of the information HE was putting forth before was wrong and he changed his story.. isn't that the same thing you are accusing Dylan of doing? Yet, its ok when Hoffman does it? Why? lol
Why do so many in this "movement" spend time ripping everyone else to shreds instead of getting out there and doing something constructive?
Every day there are more and more posts "so and so is disinfo.. so and so is cointelpro" bla bla bla freaking bla.
Are you also so sure that everyone who sees LC2 is completely incapable of rational thought when researching the information in the film as to not be able to separate "fact from fiction"? "The people that are inclined to view a video like Loose Change....very few will be in a position to tell the difference between fact and fantasy." Are people that are inclined to watch loose change stupid or something? Is there a certain socio-economic class that is more likely to view the film than another that is unable to comprehend it? What exactly are you saying there?
Yes, there are errors in LC2. We know that. Dylan knows it. Dylan is working to rectify that. But, LC2 has accomplished a lot of GOOD as well. It has led many people to begin researching 9/11. Which, by the way, is the point of the film! "Ask questions! Investigate! Look at these odd coincidences and research them!" And that is exactly what it causes MANY people to do.
I don't see how you can say that he's doing more harm than good. He's even got the attention of the British Parliament.. how much good have you done?
Saoirse go deo! www.fightthenwo.org
--------------------- --------- ---
Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.- 6d.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "rriverrapid" mailto:rustrobert@hotmail.com?Subject= rriverrapid
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:41 pm (PST)
It's to Hoffman's credit that he realized his mistakes, corrected
them and now promotes the truth. Hoffman once supported the no-757
ideas, but then upon reflection and considerable critical analysis,
he realized a 757 truly did hit the Pentagon, just as hundreds of
eyewitnesses clearly state.
That the Loose Change video is full of nonsense and is extremely
misleading many times in many ways, despite its use of some very
sensible and accurate claims, is what makes the video so damaging.
The 911 event, as careful investigators have clued in, was a secret
operation that used, fundamentally, human pysychology to manipulate
the masses and herd people to desired action (going along with the
terrorist war, spreading cultural disharmony, etc). The Loose Change
video spreads too much disinformation, especially on the false claims
that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon. Gullible people need to sit up
and take note of how their very tendencies to believe whatever they
hear, so long as it sounds suspicious (basic gossip), leads the whole
911 movement down a dangerous and very slippery path to oblivion.
A very constructive action within the 911 movement is to reveal how
lies and misinformation are being spread. These lies and
misinformation, such as the no-757-hitting-the-Pentagon absurdity,
severely damages the 911 movement, preventing truthful 911 discovery.
Promoters of no-757 do nothing but damage to a credible
investigation.
Supporting just any old fanciful claim in 911 does not serve 911
truth discovery. The current deceptive political system works in
great part because most people are lost in a program of thinking
everything is believable and nothing can be known. That's a recipe
for confusion, disorder, and endless nonsensical action in our
society. The 911 event is just one more demonstration of what occurs
in a society where people have become slowly programmed to accept all
beliefs while losign their abilities to discriminate fact from
fiction.
Planes can be flown right into buildings right in front of the
people's faces, and a proper discovery cannot even be made, due to
the confusion of the masses. Towers can be brought down using placed
explosives, and the masses can't see what is right in front of their
eyes, but instead start talking about fanciful flaky ideas like
Hologram planes, missiles, pods, and other nonsense. What credible
person desires to be associated with nonsense? Speculators become
their and society's worst enemy. The perpetrators do their little
devious tricks, then they sit back and laugh as the confused masses
prevent themselves from seeing what really happened and thereby
resolving the crimes.
So investigate, ask questions, but do it with great wisdom, very
carefully, and be aware that the task requires great experience in
critical investigation. It is a task the average citizen is very
poorly equipped for, unfortunately.
How do we know 911 discovery is not doing so well? By watching what
is said about 911 on the radio, tv, and by people in general.
Everyone is going along with the government story. The world is
proceeding as if the official story of 911 actually occurred. The 911
movement is for the most part a discredited laughing stock. No one
has been held accountable for 911. That means the perpetrators are
still on the loose. That means the system that supports them and
which they took advantage of is still in operation. That means we can
look forward to more events like 911. The thugs have robbed the candy
store and they saw how easy it was, and the crime in this case was
utterly horrific. A bunch of people are really laughing hard
somewhere.
What we need Dylan to do is get his facts straight, start making
better sense, instead of spreading all sorts of uncertainty and
misinformation. Coverup operations work so well precisely because
they spread uncertainty and misinformation. This Dylan person, if he
is sincere about 911 truth discovery, needs to start asking questions
about his own methods used to supposedly spread 911 awareness. His
effects are as bad as if he was a perpetrator working undercover, or
at least being unknowingly taken advantage by a perpetrator who
wishes to spread disinformation.
This method is a classic method used by the CIA and other secret
organizations. They use dupes to do the dirty work for them. They
take advantage of unsuspecting people, allowing hired people to
believe they are doing one thing, when in reality the hired person is
being used to accomplish a much more sinister goal. These types of
people are known as "assets" in secret organization lingo. The hired
person remains unaware of their real part. In like manner, Oswald
was a dupe used by CIA forces. The terrorists on the 911 planes, if
they even were on the plane, were similar set up dupes.
Terrorism is largely a counterfeit, artificial program run by
secret organizations like the CIA to promote disharmony among certain
countries and people and thereby promote wars, invasions, and other
actions that allow the plutocracy or oligarchies to maintain their
power and world economy structures. This Dylan person is doing an
incredible job at spreading disinformation. Whether he has been
taken advantage by someone or whether he's just a misguided, mal-
talented researcher, he's still having a tremendously negative impact
on full truth discovery.
A person or organization can easily tell the truth without
telling the whole truth or nothing but the truth, and thereby get
away with crimes that are being committed. It is for this reason that
persons under investigation, or who are used as witnesses, are
requested by the courts to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth. Anything less leads to the inability to
determine actual events and the impossibility of any possible
conviciton or correct resolution of a crime.
That person who claims to not see what harm a video like Loose Change
is doing and has done, needs to follow through with their non-
seeingness and actually investigate the matter, instead of just
stating they see nothing and then continuing along as if nothing can
be seen. Let us not trip over things, pick ourselves up, dust
ourselves off, and continue onwards as if nothing happened.
Loose Change can accomplish its supposed mission of getting people to
question, by simply saying "question things". It doesn't need to pass
off and promote huge lies like no-757 nonsense. Truth does matter. It
does matter if nonsense or falsehood is spread in our society. There
is such as thing as truthful facts as opposed to unsupported beliefs
and nonsense and endless speculation. Nonsense, falsehood, and
endless speculation have definite impacts. We don't live in a fairy
land where all is good and nothing bad can happen when wrong actions
are followed. This is real life. Lies, falsehoods, and endless
speculation lead to disorder and confusion and perpetuate themselves.
Robert- 6e.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "JP Liggett" mailto:JP@JPLiggett.com?Subject= jpliggett
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:51 pm (PST)
I guess somebody is "really worried" about loose change. make your own
movie or stop trashing Dylan's effort. Is this poster really helping or
just blowing smoke out his a*s?- 6f.
Call for protest NYC
Posted by: "JP Liggett" mailto:JP@JPLiggett.com?Subject=Re: jpliggett
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 pm (PST)
the lefties are having a social conference this weekend at Columbia u.,
uptown manhattan. there is not one session on the 911 inside job facts,
and how it can be harnessed for global social change. They're having a
party Thursday night, so I calling out to any patriots who'd like to see
some action, to join the effort to help educate these folks. Let me know
off-list
http://www.socialismconference. org. - 6g.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "Kevin Hammond" mailto:sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com?Subject= sir_oglaigh
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:55 pm (PST)
I too have had posts not go through. And in regards to Loose Change all I have further to say is that the proof is in the pudding and we will ALL be judged by our fruits.
Dick Eastman <olfriend@nwinfo.net > wrote: anonymous rriverrapid is false opposition
and my answers to him are not being posted
this is a test
----- Original Message -----
From: sithgmail
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [911TruthAction] Loose Change Nonsense
I know Dylan personally and he is anything but a disinfo artist. He made the original 2 Loose Change films on what information was available at the time and is in the process of finishing the 3rd edition which cleans up the errors in the first two.
He is one of the most active 9/11 truth speakers there is. He is constantly out there on the streets, meeting people, showing the film, financing screenings in theaters and drumming up viewers to come watch it for free. He does more than most people do!
Any errors in Loose Change or LC 2nd Edition were honest mistakes. Some of the sources he used that were thought to be highly credible turned out not to be.. it happens.
However... Loose Change 2nd edition is consistently in google video's top 100 views and has been downloaded by more than 2 million people, add that to the amount of free dvd's we all give away and it has reached a lot of people!
Yes, there are some problems with it, but they are being fixed. It still serves as an excellent introduction into the world of 9/11 truth and causes many people to start researching 9/11 on their own.
If something grabs people's attention and makes them stop for a moment and say "hmm... maybe there is more to this than meets the eye...." thats a good thing!
And before you say it, no, I am definitely not advocating netting people into the 9/11 truth world with lies and fabrications.
Dylan's motives for creating LC is definitely spot on. He is the farthest thing you can get from a "disinfo operative".
Get to know someone before labelling them and slandering them through email lists. He is a fantastic person and his heart is most truly in the right place.
-------Original Message-------
From: rriverrapid
Date: 06/20/06 03:18:31
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [911TruthAction] Loose Change Nonsense
The video Loose Change is so full of nonsense mixed with truth that
the person who made the video couldn't have done a better job at
creating and spreading misinformation and confusion had they been the
actual perpetrators following through with their cover up program.
Truthful discovery requires the revelation of the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth. Loose Change is a VERY deceptively
produced video. It's a video designed to entrap the gullible and
careless researchers and common people into making fabulous claims,
thus making the whole 911 discovery movement appear as a bunch of
misdirected space cases, endlessly pursuing embarassingly false
claims such as no planes hitting the Pentagon and more. There is a
lot of truthful information in the video, but its the volumes of
inaccurate and misleading claims that make the video worse than an
actual frontal assault on legitimate 911 researchers.
It's a shame how easily mislead indviduals and masses in our culture
have become.
Robert
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Saoirse go deo! www.fightthenwo.org
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Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.- 6h.
Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "Dick Eastman" mailto:olfriend@nwinfo.net?Subject= oldickeastman
Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:02 pm (PST)
You ignore the evidence while you merely blindly assert the official story in a pedantic way. You make no attempt to prove anything but merely argue from authority, from your pose as a discriminating thinker amid the dumb plebs.
The evidence is conclusive and you have not addressed it. Yes, I am talking about the video camera pictures released in 2002 and authenticated in May of 2006 -- and I am also talking about the clear picture of the damaged wall that proves there was no crash of a starboard engine south of where the nose hit -- and I am talking about witnesses who saw two planes.
There were hundreds of people who saw the Boeing, but only a much smaller number claim they saw it crash into the wall.
The Boeing was seen by witnesses coming "directly" over the Sheraton. over the Naval Annex, over the Citgo station -- and from there it could not have hit the first lamppost that that was downed and it could not have hit at the 50-degree angle of the killer jet.
And we have the case of the planted piece fo debris.
Again and again I have told you of this evidence, again and again you have chosen to ignore it. (Merely saying that you have seen it, and not offering any analysis is the same as ignoring it as far as readers are concerned.)
You are on this list because the Pentagon evidence is carrying the day here -- and you playing the man of wisdom who will banish it on the basis of his sneering prolixity.
I expect to see putting out these propaganda pieces very soon in the mainstream media.
Dick Eastman
----- Original Message -----
From: rriverrapid
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: Loose Change Nonsense
It's to Hoffman's credit that he realized his mistakes, corrected
them and now promotes the truth. Hoffman once supported the no-757
ideas, but then upon reflection and considerable critical analysis,
he realized a 757 truly did hit the Pentagon, just as hundreds of
eyewitnesses clearly state.
That the Loose Change video is full of nonsense and is extremely
misleading many times in many ways, despite its use of some very
sensible and accurate claims, is what makes the video so damaging.
The 911 event, as careful investigators have clued in, was a secret
operation that used, fundamentally, human pysychology to manipulate
the masses and herd people to desired action (going along with the
terrorist war, spreading cultural disharmony, etc). The Loose Change
video spreads too much disinformation, especially on the false claims
that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon. Gullible people need to sit up
and take note of how their very tendencies to believe whatever they
hear, so long as it sounds suspicious (basic gossip), leads the whole
911 movement down a dangerous and very slippery path to oblivion.
A very constructive action within the 911 movement is to reveal how
lies and misinformation are being spread. These lies and
misinformation, such as the no-757-hitting-the-Pentagon absurdity,
severely damages the 911 movement, preventing truthful 911 discovery.
Promoters of no-757 do nothing but damage to a credible
investigation.
Supporting just any old fanciful claim in 911 does not serve 911
truth discovery. The current deceptive political system works in
great part because most people are lost in a program of thinking
everything is believable and nothing can be known. That's a recipe
for confusion, disorder, and endless nonsensical action in our
society. The 911 event is just one more demonstration of what occurs
in a society where people have become slowly programmed to accept all
beliefs while losign their abilities to discriminate fact from
fiction.
Planes can be flown right into buildings right in front of the
people's faces, and a proper discovery cannot even be made, due to
the confusion of the masses. Towers can be brought down using placed
explosives, and the masses can't see what is right in front of their
eyes, but instead start talking about fanciful flaky ideas like
Hologram planes, missiles, pods, and other nonsense. What credible
person desires to be associated with nonsense? Speculators become
their and society's worst enemy. The perpetrators do their little
devious tricks, then they sit back and laugh as the confused masses
prevent themselves from seeing what really happened and thereby
resolving the crimes.
So investigate, ask questions, but do it with great wisdom, very
carefully, and be aware that the task requires great experience in
critical investigation. It is a task the average citizen is very
poorly equipped for, unfortunately.
How do we know 911 discovery is not doing so well? By watching what
is said about 911 on the radio, tv, and by people in general.
Everyone is going along with the government story. The world is
proceeding as if the official story of 911 actually occurred. The 911
movement is for the most part a discredited laughing stock. No one
has been held accountable for 911. That means the perpetrators are
still on the loose. That means the system that supports them and
which they took advantage of is still in operation. That means we can
look forward to more events like 911. The thugs have robbed the candy
store and they saw how easy it was, and the crime in this case was
utterly horrific. A bunch of people are really laughing hard
somewhere.
What we need Dylan to do is get his facts straight, start making
better sense, instead of spreading all sorts of uncertainty and
misinformation. Coverup operations work so well precisely because
they spread uncertainty and misinformation. This Dylan person, if he
is sincere about 911 truth discovery, needs to start asking questions
about his own methods used to supposedly spread 911 awareness. His
effects are as bad as if he was a perpetrator working undercover, or
at least being unknowingly taken advantage by a perpetrator who
wishes to spread disinformation.
This method is a classic method used by the CIA and other secret
organizations. They use dupes to do the dirty work for them. They
take advantage of unsuspecting people, allowing hired people to
believe they are doing one thing, when in reality the hired person is
being used to accomplish a much more sinister goal. These types of
people are known as "assets" in secret organization lingo. The hired
person remains unaware of their real part. In like manner, Oswald
was a dupe used by CIA forces. The terrorists on the 911 planes, if
they even were on the plane, were similar set up dupes.
Terrorism is largely a counterfeit, artificial program run by
secret organizations like the CIA to promote disharmony among certain
countries and people and thereby promote wars, invasions, and other
actions that allow the plutocracy or oligarchies to maintain their
power and world economy structures. This Dylan person is doing an
incredible job at spreading disinformation. Whether he has been
taken advantage by someone or whether he's just a misguided, mal-
talented researcher, he's still having a tremendously negative impact
on full truth discovery.
A person or organization can easily tell the truth without
telling the whole truth or nothing but the truth, and thereby get
away with crimes that are being committed. It is for this reason that
persons under investigation, or who are used as witnesses, are
requested by the courts to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth. Anything less leads to the inability to
determine actual events and the impossibility of any possible
conviciton or correct resolution of a crime.
That person who claims to not see what harm a video like Loose Change
is doing and has done, needs to follow through with their non-
seeingness and actually investigate the matter, instead of just
stating they see nothing and then continuing along as if nothing can
be seen. Let us not trip over things, pick ourselves up, dust
ourselves off, and continue onwards as if nothing happened.
Loose Change can accomplish its supposed mission of getting people to
question, by simply saying "question things". It doesn't need to pass
off and promote huge lies like no-757 nonsense. Truth does matter. It
does matter if nonsense or falsehood is spread in our society. There
is such as thing as truthful facts as opposed to unsupported beliefs
and nonsense and endless speculation. Nonsense, falsehood, and
endless speculation have definite impacts. We don't live in a fairy
land where all is good and nothing bad can happen when wrong actions
are followed. This is real life. Lies, falsehoods, and endless
speculation lead to disorder and confusion and perpetuate themselves.
Robert
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Re: Loose Change Nonsense
Posted by: "Kevin Hammond" mailto:sir_oglaigh@yahoo.com?Subject= sir_oglaigh
Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:10 pm (PST)
Though I really DO appreciate Jim Hoffman's and Don paul's VITAL work, When I hear things like Jim Not going to Chicago merely because The Loose Change guye were there, I make me really wonder about him. That to me, seems extremely childish. If her were REALLY trying to ssvae lives it would not matter one iota how much his distaste for Dylan Avery. He would go merely on PRINCIPLE.
JP Liggett <JP@JPLiggett.com > wrote: I guess somebody is "really worried" about loose change. make your own movie or stop trashing Dylan's effort. Is this poster really helping or just blowing smoke out his a*s?
Saoirse go deo! www.fightthenwo.org
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Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
- 7.
BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC samples... tvnl
Posted by: "reggie501" mailto:reggie501@optonline.net?Subject=Re: reggie501
Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:31 am (PST)
9/11 News : http://www.tvnewslies.org/news/ #911
· BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC Physical Samples, Building
Collapses an Inside Job - Based on chemical analysis of WTC structural
steel residue, a Brigham Young University physics professor has
identified the material as Thermate. Thermate is the controlled
demolition explosive thermite plus sulfur. Sulfur cases the thermite
to burn hotter, cutting steel quickly and leaving trails of yellow
colored residue.
- 8.
FRONTLINE: The Dark Side - On 9/11, deep inside a White House bunker
Posted by: "APFN" mailto:apfn@apfn.org?Subject=Re: klvnetacom
Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:57 am (PST)
The Dark Side
Jun. 20, 2006 at 9pm
On 9/11, deep inside a White House bunker, Vice President Dick
Cheney was ordering
U.S. fighter planes to shoot down any commercial airliner above
America. At that moment,
CIA Director George Tenet was meeting with his counterterrorism
team in Langley, Va.
Both leaders acted fast to prepare their country for a new kind
of war.
But soon a debate would grow over the goals of the war on terror,
and the decision to go to war in Iraq. (more »)
http://disc.server.com/ discussion. cgi?disc= 149495;article= 102208;title=APFN
<http://disc.server.com/ >discussion. cgi?disc= 149495;article= 102208;title=APFN
6/20/06 - "The Charles Goyette Show CIA Agent Ray McGovern
RE: FRONTLINE "THE DARK SIDE" Tue Jun 20, 2006 13:38
6/20/06 - "The Charles Goyette Show" ... Interview with
former CIA Agent Ray McGovern
The Courage to Face the Consequences - by Ray McGovernby
Ray McGovern. Hope is here. The cold light of truth is piercing
the cloud of ...
Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years - from the
John F. Kennedy ...
http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/
<http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/ >
AUDIO: PART I Interview with Ray McGovern
http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ A001I060620goyet te1.MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ >A001I060620goyet te1.MP3
6/20/06 - "The Charles Goyette Show" ..Frontline Producer
AUDIO: PART II
http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ A002I060620- goyette2. MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ >A002I060620- goyette2. MP3
--------------------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------------
The Dark Side
Jun. 20, 2006 at 9pm
On 9/11, deep inside a White House bunker, Vice President Dick
Cheney was ordering U.S. fighter planes to shoot down any
commercial airliner above America. At that moment, CIA Director
George Tenet was meeting with his counterterrorism team in
Langley, Va. Both leaders acted fast to prepare their country for
a new kind of war. But soon a debate would grow over the goals of
the war on terror, and the decision to go to war in Iraq. (more
»)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/
<http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/ >pages/frontline/
===================== ========= ========= =======
APFN "RADIO YOUR WAY"
HTTP://WWW.APFN.NET/POGO. <HTTP://WWW.APFN.HTM NET/POGO. >HTM
Charles Goyette Home Page
http://www.charlesgoyette.com/ <http://www.charlesgoyette.com/ >
Contact Charles Goyette
http://charlesgoyette.com/component /option,com_ contact/Itemid, 3/
<http://charlesgoyette.com/component >/option,com_ contact/Itemid, 3/
Logan Darrow Clemens
Lost Liberty Hotel
* Listen to the MP3 Audio - Segment 3.36 ( MB)
2/02/06 re: Bush's State of the Union Address 2005
http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 6020207095601010 -Goyette- SUA.MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >6020207095601010 -Goyette- SUA.MP3
2/03/06 re: Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 6020309001401010 -goyette- 911.MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >6020309001401010 -goyette- 911.MP3
2/03/06 re: Bush's spying on American citizens
http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 6020308292901010 -GOYETTE- BUSH-SPY. MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >6020308292901010 -GOYETTE- BUSH-SPY. MP3
2/03/06 re: CIA notified Bush Adminstration prior (3 months) to
war there was no
substantial evidence on WMD! Corruption.
http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 6020308082901010 -Goyette- cia.MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >6020308082901010 -Goyette- cia.MP3
2/07/06 Goyette re: Oath vs. Gonzales & wiretapping
http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 6020709060701010 -Goyette- Gonzales- wiretapping-oath. MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >6020709060701010 -Goyette- Gonzales- wiretapping-oath. MP3
IRAQ WAR BACK STORY: Fitzgerald, Scooter, Miller, Rove, Cheney,
Grand Jury, Frog Marching, Wilson, Plame, Cooper... Don't Forget
the Back Story! What Really Matters: A Listeners' Digest! MUST
HEAR! From the Charles Goyette Show Archives! MP3 Audio, Segment
3 CLICK HERE!
Audio:http://www.apfn.net/audio/ 2005-10-11- Charles-03. mp3
<http://www.apfn.net/audio/ >2005-10-11- Charles-03. mp3
0/19/06 AUDIO Charles Goyette -1st Show,
http://www.1100kfnx.com/goyette. php
<http://www.1100kfnx.com/goyette. >php
"He's back" America's most independent Talk Show Host"
Audio: http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ A001I060619- goyette-6- 19-06.MP3
<http://www.apfn.net/pogo/ >A001I060619- goyette-6- 19-06.MP3
http://www.apfn.org <http://www.apfn.org > ////
http://www.apfn.net <http://www.apfn.net >
Without Justice, there is JUST US!
# # #
- 9.
Sniegoski: Israel Lobby Denial: The Bankruptcy of the Mainstream Le
Posted by: "Dick Eastman" mailto:olfriend@nwinfo.net?Subject=Re: oldickeastman
Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:25 am (PST)
From: "Peter Myers" <myers@cyberone.com.au >
Stephen J. Sniegoski refutes Israel-Lobby-Denial & the complicit Left
Sniegoski requests a donation of $4 for this article
19 Jun 2006
From: IHR News
<news@ihr.org>
Israel-lobby denial:
The bankruptcy of the mainstream Left as illustrated by Stephen Zunes,
or,
On the issue of the Israel lobby the Left is no more courageous than anyone else
By STEPHEN J. SNIEGOSKI
http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/ snieg_lobby_ left.htm
If you find this essay of value, please send a donation of $4 to TLD.
More information appears below.
The antiwar Left would prefer that old-style American imperialism and
the quest for oil had caused the Iraq War. They are the preferred
enemies of the Left. They are the traditional villains. And they are
safe villains. Mentioning Israel as a culprit would cause problems: it
would lose support for the Left among activist Jews, and it would lead
to hostility from the Israel lobby and mainstream Jewish groups.
By way of contrast, no one ever got in trouble berating oil magnates or
Arab sheiks - witness Michael Moore's blockbuster 2004 documentary,
"Fahrenheit 9/11," which focuses on those alleged villains while
ignoring the neocon/Israel connection to the war. [1] Also important is
the fact that Jews, categorically, are considered to be victims; and it
is hard for the Left to criticize an officially recognized victimized
group. In terms of left-wing psychology the ideal is to strike a
radical, nonconformist pose without really alienating the powerful,
thus avoiding any negative consequences as well as the cognitive
dissonance that results from chiding designated victims. The process
can go so far as to turn a man into an unintentional apologist for
Israel. Such is the case with Stephen Zunes, a prominent leftist
historian of the Middle East, whom the leftist Israel-critic Jeffrey
Blankfort describes as a Noam Chomsky acolyte. [2]
Zunes teaches at the University of San Francisco and, as his biography
at the USF Website indicates, serves as a writer and Middle East editor
for the Foreign Policy in Focus Project, and as an associate editor for
Peace Review. [3] Zunes has given numerous lectures and conference
papers in the United States and abroad, and has published numerous
articles in journals, magazines, and newspapers on such topics as U.S.
foreign policy, Middle Eastern political developments, African
politics, social movements, and nonviolent action. His books include
Nonviolent Social Movements (Blackwell, 1999) and, with Richard Falk,
Tinderbox: U.S. Foreign Policy and the Roots of Terrorism (Common
Courage, 2003). Zunes has served as a political analyst for National
Public Radio, Pacifica Radio, the BBC, and MSNBC. He has also been a
board member and consultant for a number of peace and human-rights
organizations. As is apparent from this brief description, Zunes is a
prominent intellectual activist of the antiwar Left. And his views
reflect the characteristic attitude of that broad group.
Writing in Foreign Policy in Focus, Zunes recently offered an analysis
[4] of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's "Israel Lobby" essay [5]
that was similar in some ways to the negative views of leftist
luminaries Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein [6] but reflected a more
hostile tone not just toward Mearsheimer and Walt but toward anyone who
would dare claim that the Israel lobby has had an impact on American
foreign policy.
To encapsulate Zunes's position: Instead of influencing American
policy, Israel is but the passive instrument of American policymakers.
Washington has forced Israel to pursue a belligerent policy to enhance
American hegemony in the Middle East for the benefit of corporate
capitalists, especially arms merchants. Free of American control,
Israel would pursue a peaceful policy toward the Palestinians and
neighboring Arab states. Therefore, Israel is the victim of the United
States.
Moreover, Zunes maintains, those who claim a significant role for
Israel and the Israel lobby in determining U.S. foreign policy tend
toward anti-Semitism. Thus does the left-wing critic of American policy
morph into an apologist for Israel. Like Alan Dershowitz - in some
respects worse than Dershowitz - Zunes makes use of misleading
half-truths while simultaneously ignoring the unmistakable evidence
substantiating the power of the Israel lobby in influencing U.S.
policy.
Zunes begins his essay with a blanket attack on the integrity of
Mearsheimer and Walt. While Chomsky at least praised the courage of the
two scholars, Zunes sees a devious intent behind their work. "What
progressive supporters of Mearsheimer and Walt's analysis seem to
ignore," Zunes asserts, "is that both men have a vested interest in
absolving from responsibility the foreign policy establishment that
they have served so loyally all these years. Israel and its supporters
are essentially being used as convenient scapegoats for America's
disastrous policies in the Middle East." [7]
The presumption here is that anyone who does not identify with the Left
somehow serves the foreign-policy establishment, in the manner of an
employee or "lackey of American imperialism," as the Communist press
used to put it. But the fact is that the two authors opposed the war on
Iraq from the outset. They were among 33 academicians who took out an
ad in the September 26, 2002, New York Times titled "War with Iraq Is
Not in America's National Interest." That would be an odd way of
serving the establishment, if said establishment actually directed the
American war on Iraq, as Zunes categorically asserts. So let's just put
this down as a gratuitous smear at best, not unlike what members of the
Israel lobby hurled at Mearsheimer and Walt, along with anyone else who
had the temerity to point out the lobby's power.
The idea that the Israel lobby was simply a scapegoat implies its
innocence. But nowhere does Zunes try to show that its members,
especially the neocons, were not pushing for war on Iraq or Iran.
Instead, Zunes's defense is that the Israel lobby does not have the
power to have its plans implemented or that it is merely a pawn of the
United States.
He argues further that, because its members were divided on the issue,
it cannot be said that the Israel lobby per se supported the war on
Iraq. Zunes writes that
{quote} while Mearsheimer and Walt do not claim that the Israel lobby
is monolithic or centrally directed, they fail to emphasize how not all
pro-Israel groups support the policies of the Israeli government,
particularly its right-wing administrations. Groups like Americans for
Peace Now, the Tikkun Community, Brit Tzedek v' Shalom, and the Israel
Policy Forum all identify themselves as pro-Israel but oppose the
occupation, the settlements, the separation wall, and Washington's
unconditional support for Israeli policies. {endquote}
But that argument ignores relative power. There is no Zionist peace
group that counteracts the power of AIPAC. Similarly, there is no
Zionist peace group that counters the neocons in terms of think tanks
and media power.
Even more remarkably, Zunes denies the neocon role in the war. He
charges that
{quote} perhaps the most twisted argument in [Mearsheimer and Walt's]
article is the authors' claim that the 2003 invasion of Iraq "was
motivated in good part by a desire to make Israel more secure." This is
ludicrous on several grounds. First of all, Israel is far less secure
as a result of the rise of Islamist extremism, terrorist groups, and
Iranian influence in post-invasion Iraq than it was during the final
years of Saddam Hussein's rule, when Iraq was no longer a strategic
threat to Israel or actively involved in anti-Israeli terrorism.
{endquote}
One may observe that this is perhaps the most twisted of Zunes's
arguments (and there are many competitors). Even if his assumption were
true that the war made Israel less secure (and that is highly
questionable), it would have no bearing on the obvious fact that the
Israeli government did actively urge the attack on Iraq; the Israelis
did not merely go along with U.S. policy. Israel provided the bogus WMD
intelligence to help garner the public and political support necessary
to bring the war about. So in this case, as in many others, Zunes
ignores not only facts but logic as well to infer that if Israel's
security was not enhanced by the war, then Israel could not possibly
have promoted such a policy in the first place. Such illogic would lead
one to argue that Napoleon couldn't possibly have ordered the invasion
of Russia, since it turned out to be a fiasco.
As suggested above, it is anything but apparent that the war has harmed
the security of Israel. As a result of the war on terror, the United
States is now militantly opposed to the enemies of Israel, including
the Palestinians. Israel has now taken a free hand in dealing with the
Palestinians. As a result of American pressure, Syria removed its
military from Lebanon. Now the United States and Europe are pressuring
Iran with respect to its nuclear policy - in essence we see a de facto
international effort to guarantee Israel's nuclear monopoly in the
Middle East, in view of the fact that there is no call for Israel to
give up its potent nuclear arsenal.
Zunes also omits the fact that the neocons were the driving force for
war and that their war agenda was closely linked to that of Israel. For
some years before 2001, the neocons had been pushing for war on Iraq, a
war that was intended as the first step in restructuring the entire
Middle East - what they have referred to as World War IV. It was right
in line with Israeli Likudnik thinking. Leading neocons - Richard
Perle, Douglas Feith, and David Wurmser - provided a similar plan to
destabilize the Middle East to incoming Israeli Prime Minister
Netanyahu in 1996. The fundamental purpose of the plan, titled "A Clean
Break," was to enhance Israeli security. And the idea originated not in
some irrelevant whim of the neocons but actually in Israel, with a
comparable plan being put forth in an article in 1982 by Oded Yinon.
(Israel Shahak's translation of Yinon's work appeared under the title
The Zionist Plan for the Middle East.)
As a result of neocon efforts, significant aspects of this
destabilization plan, developed to enhance Israeli security, became the
policy of the United States in the Bush II administration. If I may
underline my point: the United States adopted a policy that originated
in Israel and that the pro-Israel neocons promoted; there is no
evidence that "corporate America" forced Israel or its supporters to
develop those policies.
While not ignoring the neocons' actual plans, Zunes downplays their
connection to Israel. Zunes writes that "although the neoconservatives
who championed the invasion of Iraq were supporters of Israel's
rightist governments, they had for many years also been supporters of
rightist governments in Latin America, Southeast Asia, and elsewhere
out of a belief that such alliances strengthened American hegemony." To
say that the neocons are no more linked to Israel than they were to
South Vietnam or Guatemala is simply absurd. Obviously, the neocons'
ties and loyalties have been far stronger to Israel than to any other
country. On this point I recommend to your attention my article "The
second wave against Mearsheimer and Walt: A well-tempered smother-out
as a new war looms" (The Last Ditch, May 25, 2006), especially my
discussion of some leading neocons and their Israeli ties. As I write
in that essay: "Neocons have been involved in institutions that promote
the interests of Jews and Israel - especially Commentary magazine,
which is funded by the American Jewish Committee, and the Jewish
Institute of National Security Affairs."
Neocons have argued that a strong America benefits Israel and Jewish
interests. In his sympathetic account of the neocons in The
Neoconservative Revolution: Jewish Intellectuals and the Shaping of
Public Policy, Murray Friedman writes: "A central element in [Norman]
Podhoretz's evolving views [in the early 1970s], which would soon
become his and many of the neocons' governing principle was the
question, 'Is It Good for the Jews,' the title of a February 1972
Commentary piece." [8] Exemplifying the focus on Jewish interests,
Friedman observes that "Commentary articles now came to emphasize
threats to Jews and the safety and security of the Jewish state. By the
1980s, nearly half of Podhoretz's writings on international affairs
centered on Israel and these dangers." [9]
Zunes asserts that groups other than the Israel lobby - oil and the
armaments industries - determine policy in the Middle East: "More
fundamentally, the United States has had strong strategic interests in
the Persian Gulf predating the establishment of modern Israel. Indeed,
oil companies and the arms industry exert far more economic and
ideological influence over Washington's policy in the Persian Gulf
region than does the Israel lobby." Here we have another half-truth.
Undoubtedly, the United States has not handed over American policy to
the Israel lobby, or there would have been much less support for
catering to the goals of the oil-producing states - necessitating, in
part, the expression of some concern for the rights of the
Palestinians. However, if American foreign policy had always excluded
the interests of the Israel lobby, and that policy had simply rested in
the hands of the State Department "Arabists" and the oil industry, it
is possible that Israel would never have come into being. [10] And it
is a certainty that the Palestinians' rights would have won greater
recognition. In fact, concern for those rights was actually
demonstrated by the Carter and Bush I administrations.
As I point out in "Gulf War 1991: Prefiguration and prelude to the 2003
Iraq debacle" (TLD, February 18, 2005), between World War II and 9/11
the watchword for U.S. policy in the Middle East was stability, which
Washington perceived as fundamental for preserving the flow of oil that
made the West run. The United States supported the conservative
monarchies in the region - Saudi Arabia being foremost - and resisted
radical forces threatening the status quo. In that period, U.S. support
for Israel existed within the broader framework of stability. But
thanks to the new neocon dominance, the Bush II foreign policy moved
away from that traditional orientation and began promoting regional
instability in an attempt to weaken Israel's enemies. This was sold to
Americans as "regime change" to bring about "democracy."
In the words of veteran neocon Michael Ledeen, "Creative destruction is
our middle name. We do it automatically.... It is time once again to
export the democratic revolution." [11] Whether the neocons sincerely
believe in establishing some version of democracy in the Middle East is
uncertain; in any case, the essential part of their definition of a
democracy is a government that supports Israel.
Let us note well that instead of promoting war, the oil companies at
the beginning of the Bush II administration actually sought to end
sanctions on Iraq. They have taken the same stance toward Iran, in
contrast to the warlike positions advocated by Israel and the Israel
lobby. [12]
Zunes must confine his account of American policy in the Middle East to
a hopelessly general level in order to conclude that the Israel lobby
is unimportant. According to Zunes, the
{quote} claim that the Israel lobby is a major factor in the
formulation of overall U.S. Middle East policy is plainly false.
Indeed, U.S. policy in the Middle East over the past several decades -
orchestrating military interventions and CIA-backed coups, backing
right-wing dictatorships, peddling neoliberal economic policies through
the International Monetary Fund and other international financial
institutions, undermining the United Nations and international law,
imposing sanctions against nationalist governments, etc. - is
remarkably similar to U.S. policy toward Latin America, Africa, and
Southeast Asia. If the United States can pursue such policies elsewhere
in the world without pressure from the Israel lobby, why is its
presence necessary to explain U.S. policies in the Middle East?
{endquote}
Clearly, the United States has engaged and does engage in imperialistic
activities that have nothing to do with Israel. But the question at
hand is not why the United States pursues imperialism; rather, it is
why the United States supports Israel. The operation of American
imperialism does not ineluctably require promoting Israeli interests.
In fact, it would be easy to see, and has in fact been observed, that
U.S. support for Israel hinders U.S. policy in the Middle East by
antagonizing the region's population and leaders, thus creating
unnecessary enemies.
Zunes acknowledges the existence of establishment opposition to the war
on Iraq but minimizes its significance. "Mearsheimer and Walt's
observation that U.S. support of Israel runs contrary to U.S. strategic
interests by stimulating anti-Americanism in the Arab/Islamic world is
not an unprecedented dissenting position," Zunes writes. "During any
administration, there are elements within establishment circles that
come to conclusions challenging the prevailing mindset. For example,
Mearsheimer and Walt joined Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jacek Krugler, and
other realists who recognized that the invasion of Iraq was contrary to
U.S. national security interests, but the Bush administration and a
sizable majority of Congress (including the leadership of both parties)
believed otherwise."
But in fact the opposition to the war on Iraq in establishment circles
was far greater than Zunes acknowledges and seems to have exceeded the
actual support for the war. No influential foreign-policy element, save
the neocons, pushed for war against Iraq and for the forcible
restructuring of the Middle East. In "The second wave" I point out that
"leading elements of the American security/foreign-policy establishment
- Bush the elder and his cronies, Brzezinski, foreign-policy
'realists,' liberal internationalists, the oil interests, global
capitalists (e.g., George Soros), the military brass, career State
Department and CIA professionals - were cool or hostile to the war on
Iraq and the Middle East war agenda in general." The mainstream media
often cited such forces, as represented within the Bush administration,
as trying to restrain the neocon war effort. But that effort was
directed by what Lawrence Wilkerson, former Secretary of State Colin
Powell's chief of staff, terms the "cabal," which was able to bypass
normal State Department channels. [13]
It is hard to see how the war would have taken place if the associates
of Bush the elder - Brent Scowcroft, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleberger
- were directing foreign policy for George W. Bush, as many
commentators in 2000 had expected. The crucial importance of Bush's
having neoconservative advisors was acknowledged by neocon Richard
Perle:
{quote} If Bush had staffed his administration with a group of people
selected by Brent Scowcroft and Jim Baker, which might well have
happened, then it could have been different, because they would not
have carried into it the ideas that the people who wound up in
important positions brought to it. The ideas are only important as they
reside in the minds of people who were involved directly in the
decision process. [14] {endquote}
Zunes's implication that Congress is a definitive part of the
foreign-policy elite distorts the very meaning of elite. Under Zunes's
theory, any policy ever voted for by Congress would ipso facto
represent an elite decision. Such a view would deny the role of
lobbies, and it would deny the importance of the executive branch in
shaping policy. Obviously, congressmen were influenced by the WMD
propaganda spread by the administration; they either believed it
themselves or believed that it was politically necessary to go along
with the majority of their constituents who fell for it. Would Zunes
argue that Congress would have voted for war if the executive branch
had not been pushing its war propaganda? Impossible.
Zunes goes on to maintain that Israel has helped America to fight the
"war on terror" presumably to advance American interests, writing:
{quote} The Pentagon pre-positions equipment in Israel to enhance
military readiness for intervention elsewhere in the Middle East.
Israel has also been supportive of U.S. military operations in Iraq by
helping to train U.S. Special Forces in aggressive counterinsurgency
techniques and sending urban warfare specialists to Fort Bragg to
instruct assassination squads targeting suspected Iraqi guerrilla
leaders. The U.S. civil administration in Iraq, established following
the 2003 invasion, was modeled after Israel's civil administration in
the occupied Arab territories following the 1967 Israeli invasion. U.S.
officers have traveled to Israel and Israeli officers have traveled to
Iraq for additional consulting. What's more, Israelis have helped arm
and train pro-American Kurdish militias and have assisted U.S.
officials in interrogation centers for suspected insurgents under
detention near Baghdad. Israeli advisers have shared helpful tips on
erecting and operating roadblocks and checkpoints, have provided
training in mine-clearing and wall-breaching methods, and have
suggested techniques for tracking suspected insurgents using drone
aircraft. Israel has also provided aerial surveillance equipment, decoy
drones, and armored construction equipment. In return, Israel has
reaped ever-greater U.S. support. {endquote}
Undoubtedly, Israel has provided some help to the United States in the
current war. But the question is to what extent it has helped, and how
that help relates to the fact that Israel pushed for the war. Israel
has shed little if any blood for this war. It has expended little
treasure. Having promoted the war, it achieved its goal at virtually no
cost. That is a diplomatic coup of major proportions. Israel's costs
were especially infinitesimal compared with those of the United States
in terms of treasure, blood, and diplomatic trade-offs. The United
States has made enemies around the world, especially among the Islamic
nations; Israel's enemies have remained the same.
Israeli activity in Kurdistan deserves a mention. There we should note
that Israel is simply advancing its own interests - to connect itself
with an oil-producing region that provides it a strategic location from
which to put pressure on both the Iraqi central government and Iran.
[15] From the Likudnik perspective, the reality of a fragmented Iraq
was much to be preferred to the neocons' mass-marketed pipe dream of a
unified democratic Iraq. Such a division of Iraq simply reflects the
Israeli aim to fragment and destabilize its enemies, as proposed in
Yinon's 1982 article. Let us recall that in the past past Israel has
formed strong secret relationships with leaders of the Kurdish
secessionist movement. [16] What is not evident, however, is how a
destabilized and fragmented Iraq would benefit American interests.
Avoiding that very fragmentation was a fundamental reason Bush the
elder curtailed his invasion of Iraq in 1991; indeed, official American
policy continues to favor a unified Iraq to the present day.
While the thrust of Zunes's thesis is to deny the power of the Israel
lobby, he tacitly acknowledges that it possesses some power when he
alludes to the "historic precedent ... for a wide bipartisan consensus
of lawmakers myopically pursuing policies which end up hurting U.S.
interests." He writes that "while the Israel lobby certainly
contributes to this myopia through its distortions of the historical
narrative and the current situation, there are plenty of other
cultural, political, and related factors also at work." Certainly all
historical events are multicausal. It is hard to think of any
historical event that was caused by only one factor, independent of
other underlying or contributing factors. Individuals or groups can
achieve their goals only in certain environments.
Also overthrowing his premise of powerlessness, with respect to the
lobby, is the homage that Zunes pays to reality by admitting that the
Israel lobby does have the power to intimidate critics. But he couches
that admission in a distorted manner. For example, he writes that the
effort to suppress opposition comes from "organized right-wing forces,"
an odd description of such organizations as the Anti-Defamation League,
which is quick to brand adversaries (especially those on the Right)
with the lethal "anti-Semite" stigma.
Furthermore, and strangely, Zunes asserts that attacks on critics of
Israel or the Israel lobby are no different from the attacks on those
who criticize other American policies, writing that "those who
challenge U.S. policy anywhere are going to be subjected to
intimidation." But think back to the Vietnam War era. It was almost de
rigueur for academics to criticize American foreign policy. Moreover,
the criticism of American policy is not analogous to the criticism of
Israel or its lobby. A proper analogy to the case of Israel would
involve criticism of other countries that the United States has
supported. And I have never heard of anyone suffering in the least in
the late 1960s or early 1970s for saying that the government of South
Vietnam was corrupt. Nor is anyone ever punished today for criticizing
the government of Saudi Arabia. Being called anti-South Vietnam or
anti-Saudi patently carries nothing like the lethal stigma of being
branded anti-Semitic.
Continuing, Zunes reverses himself, in part, by admitting the
"exceptional nature of the challenges faced by critics of U.S. support
for the Israeli government." But after making that admission of
inequivalency, Zunes then implies that such harsher treatment is to
some extent understandable and largely the result of self-censorship
rather than any external actions by the Israel lobby:
{quote} Given that Israel is the world's only Jewish state and that
some criticism of Israel really is rooted in anti-Semitism, organized
attacks against those opposing Israeli policies tend to carry more
resonance since they involve alleged manifestations of prejudice
against a minority group. If a Jewish state were not the focus, many
liberals would dismiss such attacks as passé McCarthyism and would not
take them seriously. As a result, assaults on critics of Israeli
policies have been more successful in limiting open debate, but this
gagging censorship effect stems more from ignorance and liberal guilt
than from any all-powerful Israel lobby. {endquote}
That the censorship here "stems from ignorance and liberal guilt"
rather than from the Israel lobby is highly questionable, for the
proponents of Israel play a leading role in circulating disinformation
and suppressing truth on the subject, keeping even educated people
ignorant about the activities of Israel. Moreover, the lobby plays a
role in generating guilt on selected issues advantageous to its
interests - consider how the public is inundated by portrayals of the
suffering in the Jewish Holocaust while the lobby simultaneously exerts
its power to block portrayals of the Palestinian Nakba or any Israeli
persecution of Palestinians. (The recent suppression of the play I Am
Rachel Corrie in New York City is one example.)
Ignorance and guilt among American liberals are closely related to the
power of the Israel lobby. And those not disabled by internal guilt
understand that external punishments are always at hand: consider the
cases of the brilliant writer Joe Sobran, fired from National Review
and subsequently suffering in near-poverty as a result of the
"anti-Semite" blacklist, and leading Middle East scholar Juan Cole,
recently denied a tenured position at Yale. Those not motivated by
guilt are kept in line by fear. Criticizing the Israel lobby will not,
to be sure, lead one to be shot at sunrise or sent to the Gulag, but it
can do irreparable harm to one's career.
Further militating against his powerlessness thesis, Zunes even
acknowledges that the lobby generates fear. But he argues that it is an
unwarranted fear: "The myth of an all-powerful Israel lobby is so
pervasive that it has often scared off progressive funding and
organizing that could conceivably challenge it." Zunes attributes the
problem to the lobby's critics, writing that "exaggerating the power of
the Israel lobby," as he claims Mearsheimer and Walt do, "leads to a
self-fulfilling prophecy." But if, as Zunes's fundamental argument has
it, the Israel lobby has no power to influence American policy and is
simply a tool of the corporate elite, it is hard to see how any
"self-fulfilling prophecy" could possibly occur. Whether the Israel
lobby influenced American policy because of its actual power or because
of people's irrational fear of its supposed power, the fact would
remain that it could or did influence American policy - but the
existence of that influence is denied by Zunes's overall thesis.
Having said that, I must add that although the power of the Israel
lobby is all too real, fear of it is often excessive. As I pointed out
in an earlier article, the Israel lobby is not omnipotent, and
Americans have the power to free themselves from its tentacles if they
are willing to eschew spineless acquiescence. [17]
Ironically, while Zunes denies that the Israel lobby has power, he is
willing to attribute power to other lobbies; and by citing them he
implies, willy nilly, that the Israel lobby, too, has some influence.
He writes:
{quote} When examining the power of the Israel lobby in negatively
influencing U.S. Middle East policy [which, remember, Zunes denies], it
is important to recognize the role of other lobbies that have an
interest in encouraging the dangerous direction of current U.S. policy.
Placing so much emphasis on AIPAC and its allied groups ignores other
special interests and ideologies which also play a role in urging U.S.
support for the Israeli government. {endquote}
Zunes maintains that the "Christian Zionists exercise a much more
influential role in the current administration than do Jewish
Zionists." But moving outside Zunes's Alice-in-Wonderland cosmos,
anyone can see that while the Christian Right provided votes for Bush's
election victories, it was not nearly as significant in actually
determining the war policy. The neocons not only designed the Middle
East plan that the Bush administration adapted but also played a major
role in promoting and implementing the policy. Consider the Bush neocon
insiders: David Wurmser, Douglas Feith, John Bolton, Elliot Abrams,
Abram Shulsky, and, perhaps most important, Paul Wolfowitz, whom Time
Magazine called the "godfather of the Iraq war." [18] There were no
members of the Christian Right of comparable significance. The
Christian Right only provided the ground-level support for a policy
that the neocons developed, implemented, and promoted. And in
2002-2003, there was probably enough popular support for the Bush
policy without the Christian Right. It was necessary only that members
of the Christian Right should hold an opinion commensurate with other
people of their racial, sectional, and socio-economic status, in order
to get the war policy adopted by Congress.
Zunes contends that the most important lobby in regard to U.S. Middle
East policy is the arms industry. "The military-industrial complex," he
writes, "has a considerable stake in encouraging massive arms shipments
to Israel and other Middle Eastern U.S. allies and can exert enormous
pressure on members of Congress who do not support a
weapons-proliferation agenda."
Undeniably, the arms industry is tied in with the Israel lobby,
especially the neoconservatives. [19] But it is the latter who
determine American policy. Many of their activities are right out in
the open. They form an interlocking network of think tanks and
organizations that produces a wide variety of materials to disseminate
their positions; they appear in the major media; and they staff the
executive branch. While some arms merchants and former military
officers support the neocons, it is difficult to discern the hand of
the military-industrial complex acting alone. Where are the arms
industry's organizations and spokesmen that set policy? What
influential individuals, organizations, and media outlets does the arms
industry have comparable to Norman Podhoretz, Richard Perle, Douglas
Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Commentary, the Weekly Standard, the Jewish
Institute of National Security Affairs, and the American Enterprise
Institute?
It is understandable that the arms industry supports Israel - and
maintains ties with Israel and its supporters - because it realizes
that Israel's lobby is very influential and sets the parameters for
American Middle East policy, within which other lobbies must operate.
(Lobbyists tend to donate funds to winning politicians, not to obvious
losers who might be more sympathetic to their particular interest.) It
is not apparent that the arms industry would support a pro-Israeli
policy if it had its druthers. If the arms industry could optimize
American foreign policy to serve its own interests, free of the
impediment of the Israel lobby, it could earn more profits by selling
arms to Israel's enemies. Saddam, for example, would have been willing
to buy arms from the United States - and in fact he did so during the
1980s. Iran, which currently has plenty of oil money, is purchasing
arms from other nations, especially China and Russia. The "war on
terror" has strained the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia, and that
country, too, is now purchasing arms from China.
Unlike Israel, those countries purchase armaments with their own money,
not with military aid extracted from U.S. taxpayers. No doubt the
United States could get many countries in the world to purchase
American arms if it provided them with the funds to purchase them. In
short, if the fundamental goal of American foreign policy were to sell
armaments, it is peculiar to propose that a pro-Israel foreign policy
would be essential. Similarly, if the goal were to enrich armament
producers by preparing for America's defense, there are plenty of
potential adversaries around the world to prepare to fight without
focusing on those hostile to Israel.
Ultimately, as signaled earlier in this essay, Zunes brandishes the
anti-Semitic card:
{quote} There is something quite convenient and discomfortingly
familiar about the tendency to blame an allegedly powerful and wealthy
group of Jews for the overall direction of an increasingly
controversial U.S. policy. Indeed, like exaggerated claims of Jewish
power at other times in history, such an explanation absolves the real
powerbrokers and assigns blame to convenient scapegoats. This is not to
say that Mearsheimer, Walt, or anyone else who expresses concern about
the power of the Israel lobby is an anti-Semite, but the way in which
this exaggerated view of Jewish power parallels historic anti-Semitism
should give us all pause. {endquote}
Just how long would Zunes have us pause? While he professes not to be
labeling lobby critics as anti-Semites, he implies that they should not
come out and openly express the view that the Israel lobby possesses
power. Now, if the proponents of that view don't actually believe it,
they shouldn't say it. Lying is bad. But if they do believe it, they
should not shy away from telling the truth; they should not shy away
from trying to discredit a policy that is resulting in the deaths of
thousands of people and that portends to doom thousands more. They
should persist despite any alleged negative implications from the past.
Negative implications can probably be assigned to any idea. Let us not
jail any minority-race criminals, for minority-race people were
unfairly incarcerated and executed in the past; let us not criticize
Arab states or Arab leaders, for the West's belief in their lack of
enlightenment was used to justify Western imperialism in the past; let
us not oppose poverty, for Communists opposed poverty; let us not
indict American imperialism, for that was a common indictment by
Communist propagandists; let us not decry smoking, for Hitler decried
smoking.
Zunes goes so far as to claim that the idea of a powerful Israel lobby
is widely voiced in private by diplomats and politicians seeking to
avoid taking steps to aid the Palestinians or to justify their vote for
arms funding for Israel. And he declares:
{quote} You still hear some peace and human rights activists quoting
congressional aides and members of Congress as if these influential and
(mostly) wealthy, white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant lawmakers were
actually helpless, innocent victims of a sinister cabal of rich and
powerful Jews. Opposing inhumane Israeli policies is not anti-Semitic,
but when those in positions of power utilize an exaggerated claim of
Jewish clout in order to divert public attention from their own
complicity with unpopular policies, they are indeed flirting with
anti-Semitism. {endquote}
Zunes maintains, further, that the expression of that view by American
officials increases anti-Semitism in the Arab world: "My interviews
with a half dozen Arab foreign ministers and deputy foreign ministers
in recent years have confirmed that U.S. diplomats routinely blame the
'Jewish lobby' as a means of diverting blame away from the U.S.
government. This cynical excuse has contributed to the frightening rise
in recent years of anti-Jewish attitudes in the Arab world."
But if such descriptions of the Israel lobby are merely maneuvers to
divert attention from real motives, why aren't they expressed in
public? Wouldn't that be more effective? If many people - including
government officials - are saying something in private but not in
public, isn't it reasonable to conclude that they believe it to be true
but are afraid to express it openly? This appeal to logic and
psychology is, of course, backed up by considerable empirical evidence,
as we see when the Israel lobby hurls the lethal "anti-Semite" charge
against those few who do dare to publicly mention its power. Zunes
himself acknowledges the "exceptional nature of the challenges faced by
critics of U.S. support for the Israeli government." If people of
considerable stature - including members of Congress and diplomats -
share this fear, it is hard to deny that the Israel lobby really does
possess extensive power.
If Zunes's views are so off base, why is he such a significant figure
in the Middle East peace movement? The answer is that his rather
convoluted, contradictory account comports with the ideological
predilections of large numbers of people in the mainly left-wing Middle
East peace camp. For those who relish the memes of Jewish victimology,
Third World beneficence, and the unadulterated evil of an American
gentile economic elite, Zunes provides the perfect story. In Zunes's
imaginary world, it is Israel that is the victim of America - more
specifically of American gentiles, since the American Israel lobby is
actually powerless, and is perhaps a victim too. As Zunes writes: "It
has long been in Washington's interest to maintain a militarily
powerful and belligerent Israel dependent on the United States. Real
peace could undermine such a relationship." One wonders how that fits
in with the efforts of Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush to curb Jewish
settlements in the occupied territories, efforts that were totally
resisted by Israel and the Israel lobby. But so much for inconvenient
facts.
In Zunes's fantasy, all would be sweetness and light if it were not for
the United States: "U.S. policy has resulted in dividing Israelis from
Arabs, although both are Semitic peoples who worship the same God, love
the same land, and share a history of subjugation and oppression." But
any evidence that the Zionists and Palestinians got along well before
U.S. involvement in the region is, shall we say, scanty. As you see
here, unlike a typical member of the Israel lobby Zunes portrays
Israel's adversaries as victims, not as evildoers; and therefore he can
appeal to the Left's Third World sympathies while simultaneously
portraying Israel as a victim.
In Zunes's view the worst thing is to claim that the Israel lobby is
responsible for any problems in the Middle East: "To blame the current
morass in the Middle East on the Israel lobby only exacerbates
animosities and plays into the hands of the divide-and-rule tactics of
those in Congress and the administration whose primary objective is
ultimately not to help Israel but to advance the American Empire."
Zunes's apology for the Israel lobby is about as strong as it could be
for one still labeled a critic of Israel. After all, Zunes would like
all mention of the Israel lobby to cease. He believes that to be the
essential precondition for peace to take root. For those on the Left
who prefer to live in a make-believe world, Zunes has confected the
perfect myth - victimized Arabs, victimized Jews, and an ultra-evil
American gentile economic elite. But since that state of things is
totally imaginary, it worsens rather than solves the real problems that
exist; at least, it will not solve them in ways contrary to the goals
set by the Israel lobby. It will not provide for a viable Palestinian
homeland. It will not stop American military involvement in the Middle
East. Quite obviously, if all critics imitated Zunes and deliberately
avoided any mention of the Israel lobby's power, that lobby would
flourish stronger than ever. [20]
June 18, 2006
This article is © 2006 by Stephen J. Sniegoski. All rights reserved.
This page is © 2006 WTM Enterprises. All rights reserved.
Dr. Sniegoski's first essay on "The Israel Lobby": "Israel lobbying:
The attack on Mearsheimer and Walt" (April 20, 2006)
Dr. Sniegoski's second essay on "The Israel Lobby": "The second wave
against Mearsheimer and Walt: A well-tempered smother-out as a new war
looms" (May 25, 2006)
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Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h
Posted by: "Dick Eastman" mailto:olfriend@nwinfo.net?Subject= oldickeastman
Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:00 am (PST)
From: rriverrapid
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- here's why
The world's problems are created by more than the "jews" of Israel.
de: Israel is the pet project of the Rothschilds -- it is the great (Jewish) merchant banking houses that are Zionist, war profiteers, money system manipulators, recipients of laundered drug money etc. etc. Mossad, because of its ethnic purity and single-minded ideology of Zionism is the most trusted organ of intelligence. But the CIA, MI6 and Mossad are working on the same team -- at least at the top.
Isreal has its Mossad, just like many other countries have their
secret agencies. CIA, MI-6, MI-5 CSIS, FBI, SDECE, SISMI, FSB(KGB),
BND, and fifty others. CIA is the largest by far, with the British
next.
de: The CIA and MI-6 are political black-op arms of the Administration -- discipline and compartmentalized knowledge allows the intelligence agencies to commit criminal acts -- assassinations, drug trafficking, false-flag ops. The CIA is infiltrated by Mossad at critical points -- just as is the Pentagon.
One must remember that it is the west, lead by English and US
interests, that created the new state of Israel after WWII for the
purposes of having influences in the middle east and a whole lot of
other secret reasons.
de: Not at all. The Zionist bankers promoted and prolonged WWI to gain oil lands, but also to secure a Jewish homeland in Palestine. World War Two was also prolonged -- D-Day could have occured in 1943, but the invasion of Italy and Operation Torch in North Africa was initiated instead to obtain middle-east objectives. Roosevelt was murdered at Bernard Baruchs instruction simply because Roosevelt stated that he wanted to be fair to the Palestinians. The Zionist idea was a main reason for the both world wars. And Hitler persecution of the Jewish Germans was to alienate them -- de-assimilate them) so that they would flee and eventually end up as the professional class of Israel.)
Am I to believe that the Mossad, with its puny
budget compared to the CIA, somehow is directing the CIA and MI6,
those two benevolent, peace loving, altruistic organizations that
wouldn't slap at a mosquito cause t's "not nice to do", and
controlling all world affairs.
de: Mossad is the most trusted tool for black ops -- it controls the most loyalty and security for planning operations like 9-11. They control/influence the other agencies like the Zionist Neo-cons control the Pentagon.
It's Qui Bono? Is the US and Britain
conquering Iraq and the whole Middle East because Israel wants a
bigger slice of desert pie?
Israel has said again and again that attacking Iraq (and Iran) is good for Israel.
Sharon told the Kinnesset "We control America."
Focusing on Israel for the worlds
problems is like focusing on Africans for making the problem of
slavery.
de: It is the power of the multi-billionaires in international banking who are Zionists that makes Israel a continuous primary issue -- look at the Israel Lobby and its power. It is the Zionist publishers of newspapers and electronic media that keep Israel a prime issue -- and control American thinking so that we become willing to send our sons to kill Arabs so that Israel can feel more secure and enjoy a new empire.
Sure they're involved, but they're not all that causative
compared to the truly big players. To focus on Isreal as the source
of everyone's trouble is disingenuous, misleading, and dishonest, to
say the least. From that focus, I sense an interest in spreading
prejudice, black and white biased thinking, short judgement,
simplistic thinking, and otherwise dishonest and manipulative
agendized promotion of suspect beliefs.
DE: The big players are global capitalists and they are Zionists -- they care more for Israel than they do for the US and the American people. Israel (Zionism) is the reason for the 9-11 false-flag mass-murder black-op -- Israel is the reason why we went to war against Iraq -- oil, you say? the new oil line connects Israel and Iraq!!!. And it is the Israel Lobby and no one else who pushes for a new war against Iran.
I find it interesting that you have such an interest in foreign affairs, yet spend so much of your time voicing your denial of the 9-11 evidence. Is there something in your background you don't want us to know?
Robert
Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.
Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq
by James J. David, Brigadier General, USA ret. - Jan 7, 2003
(James J. Davd is a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington, DC. He served as a Company Commander with the 101st Airborne Division in the Republic of Vietnam in 1969 and 1970 and also served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.)
Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel.
Question Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon? (<>Pollard is a filthy traitor to the United States who should have been taken out at dawn and shot dead, along with Bruce Franklin BH<>)
Answer: Israel.
Question. What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel
Question. What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.
Answer: Israel
Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel.
Question. Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the U.S.?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely insults the American people by having its Prime Minister address the United States Congress and lecturing them like children on why they have no right to reduce foreign aid?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control America?"
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International for demolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic cleansing.
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly populated area killing 15 civilians including 9 children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles, bulldozers, or tanks?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more than 270 new settlements since the signing?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of civilians in the process, including dozens of children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire villages while people are still in their homes?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East is the United States threatening to attack because of fear that it may be a threat to us and to our allies?
Answer: Iraq
Comment: What General David has said is nothing more than the truth. Americans are afraid of Muslim terrorism but nearly any sane person, excluding hysterical Jews, who has any knowledge of the problems of the Middle East, realizes is that the sole reason behind the 9/11 attacks and other such incidents, is the total mindless obedience by the United States government to the requests and demands of the state of Israel. We should follow the sage advice of General George Washington when he said that America ought not to become embroiled in foreign wars but remain neutral and sell to both sides. There was no AIPAC then to bribe our legislators and steal our secrets nor any Neocon group to deliberately push this country into the bottomless pit of an Iraqi war because it suited Israel that we do so.
Brian Harring
www.tbrnews.org/Archives/ a2381.htm# 004
/ / /
----------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006- 10b.
Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h
Posted by: "Dick Eastman" mailto:olfriend@nwinfo.net?Subject= oldickeastman
Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:04 am (PST)
From: rriverrapid
To: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: [911TruthAction] Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- here's why
The world's problems are created by more than the "jews" of Israel.
de: Israel is the pet project of the Rothschilds -- it is the great (Jewish) merchant banking houses that are Zionist, war profiteers, money system manipulators, recipients of laundered drug money etc. etc. Mossad, because of its ethnic purity and single-minded ideology of Zionism is the most trusted organ of global elite intelligence. But the CIA, MI6 and Mossad are working on the same team -- at least at the top and in the black-op range.
Isreal has its Mossad, just like many other countries have their
secret agencies. CIA, MI-6, MI-5 CSIS, FBI, SDECE, SISMI, FSB(KGB),
BND, and fifty others. CIA is the largest by far, with the British
next.
de: The CIA and MI-6 are political black-op arms of the Administration -- discipline and compartmentalized knowledge allows the intelligence agencies to commit criminal acts -- assassinations, drug trafficking, false-flag ops. The CIA is infiltrated by Mossad at critical points -- just as is the Pentagon.
One must remember that it is the west, lead by English and US
interests, that created the new state of Israel after WWII for the
purposes of having influences in the middle east and a whole lot of
other secret reasons.
de: Not at all. The Zionist bankers promoted and prolonged WWI to gain oil lands, but also to secure a Jewish homeland in Palestine. World War Two was also prolonged -- D-Day could have occured in 1943, but the invasion of Italy and Operation Torch in North Africa was initiated instead to obtain middle-east objectives. Roosevelt was murdered at Bernard Baruchs instruction simply because Roosevelt stated that he wanted to be fair to the Palestinians. The Zionist idea was a main reason for the both world wars. And Hitler persecution of the Jewish Germans was to alienate them -- de-assimilate them) so that they would flee and eventually end up as the professional class of Israel.)
Am I to believe that the Mossad, with its puny
budget compared to the CIA, somehow is directing the CIA and MI6,
those two benevolent, peace loving, altruistic organizations that
wouldn't slap at a mosquito cause t's "not nice to do", and
controlling all world affairs.
de: Mossad is the most trusted tool for black ops -- it controls the most loyalty and security for planning operations like 9-11. They control/influence the other agencies like the Zionist Neo-cons control the Pentagon.
It's Qui Bono? Is the US and Britain
conquering Iraq and the whole Middle East because Israel wants a
bigger slice of desert pie?
Israel has said again and again that attacking Iraq (and Iran) is good for Israel.
Sharon told the Kinnesset "We control America."
Focusing on Israel for the worlds
problems is like focusing on Africans for making the problem of
slavery.
de: It is the power of the multi-billionaires in international banking who are Zionists that makes Israel a continuous primary issue -- look at the Israel Lobby and its power. It is the Zionist publishers of newspapers and electronic media that keep Israel a prime issue -- and control American thinking so that we become willing to send our sons to kill Arabs so that Israel can feel more secure and enjoy a new empire.
Sure they're involved, but they're not all that causative
compared to the truly big players. To focus on Isreal as the source
of everyone's trouble is disingenuous, misleading, and dishonest, to
say the least. From that focus, I sense an interest in spreading
prejudice, black and white biased thinking, short judgement,
simplistic thinking, and otherwise dishonest and manipulative
agendized promotion of suspect beliefs.
DE: The big players are global capitalists and they are Zionists -- they care more for Israel than they do for the US and the American people. Israel (Zionism) is the reason for the 9-11 false-flag mass-murder black-op -- Israel is the reason why we went to war against Iraq -- oil, you say? the new oil line connects Israel and Iraq!!!. And it is the Israel Lobby and no one else who pushes for a new war against Iran.
I find it interesting that you have such an interest in foreign affairs, yet spend so much of your time voicing your denial of the 9-11 evidence. Is there something in your background you don't want us to know?
Robert
Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.
Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq
by James J. David, Brigadier General, USA ret. - Jan 7, 2003
(James J. Davd is a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington, DC. He served as a Company Commander with the 101st Airborne Division in the Republic of Vietnam in 1969 and 1970 and also served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.)
Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel.
Question Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel.
Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.
Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon? (<>Pollard is a filthy traitor to the United States who should have been taken out at dawn and shot dead, along with Bruce Franklin BH<>)
Answer: Israel.
Question. What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel
Question. What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.
Answer: Israel
Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel.
Question. Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel.
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the U.S.?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely insults the American people by having its Prime Minister address the United States Congress and lecturing them like children on why they have no right to reduce foreign aid?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control America?"
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International for demolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic cleansing.
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly populated area killing 15 civilians including 9 children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles, bulldozers, or tanks?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more than 270 new settlements since the signing?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of civilians in the process, including dozens of children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire villages while people are still in their homes?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East is the United States threatening to attack because of fear that it may be a threat to us and to our allies?
Answer: Iraq
Comment: What General David has said is nothing more than the truth. Americans are afraid of Muslim terrorism but nearly any sane person, excluding hysterical Jews, who has any knowledge of the problems of the Middle East, realizes is that the sole reason behind the 9/11 attacks and other such incidents, is the total mindless obedience by the United States government to the requests and demands of the state of Israel. We should follow the sage advice of General George Washington when he said that America ought not to become embroiled in foreign wars but remain neutral and sell to both sides. There was no AIPAC then to bribe our legislators and steal our secrets nor any Neocon group to deliberately push this country into the bottomless pit of an Iraqi war because it suited Israel that we do so.
Brian Harring
www.tbrnews.org/Archives/ a2381.htm# 004
/ / /
----------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006- 10c.
Re: U.S. Brigadier General Says Israel is the problem not Iraq -- h
Posted by: "rriverrapid" mailto:rustrobert@hotmail.com?Subject= rriverrapid
Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:07 pm (PST)
Dick,
You are big on Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel. It resembles talk like
the administration likes to hand out on drugs. The foreigners,
foreigners, foreigners, foreigners with all their drugs, drugs,
drugs, drugs they are forcing the innocent, unwilling citizens to
consume. Let's have a war on the drug pushing countries. What a
fabulous idea. While at it, lets pick on Israel, Israel, Israel.
Maybe they are the ones forcing us to consume cocaine from Columbia
too. They have a Mossad, and they have drug addicts and gun runners
too. Yeah, it must be them. Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel.
Perhaps the problem is closer to home and a lot more complex than
just Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel. Perhaps those that use
drugs, and those that are going along with this Israel, Israel,
Israel, Israel directed conspiracy of yours are a part of the problem
too. Perhaps certain elements within your Israel, Israel, Israel,
Israel movement are just a part of the overall workings that feed the
desire of consuming peoples.
I don't deny 911 evidence, for it speaks for itself, especially when
it is let to speak for itself without improper and unnecessary
embellishment. I do deny spurious, damaging claims, weak
insinuations, and endless fanciful speculation made by misguided
individuals. Criticism is good and proper in a healthy discussion,
though it may not feel very good to those whose ideas and claims are
necessarily being criticized. Regarding the Pentagon event, it is
fundamentally clear you need to start at square one again, and allow
yourself to critically examine the facts and come to sensible
conclusions, without embellishments or theories that are so full of
holes themselves they are even worse than the official story. Perhaps
you need to go to Washington and personally hear the testimonies of
those many, many credible witnesses and people who saw a 757 fly into
the Pentagon, instead of sitting back in Washington state mired in
your speculation and second, third, and fourth hand opinions
regarding that event.
Robert
- 11.
Re: Chevez
Posted by: "rriverrapid" mailto:rustrobert@hotmail.com?Subject= rriverrapid
Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:03 pm (PST)
Mary,
what you said is well considered and makes good sense
Robert
- 12a.
seen the photos -evidence of elements that do not incinerate into ga
Posted by: "Judy Cunningham" mailto:drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com?Subject=Re: drjudyforjustice
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:07 pm (PST)
according to Einstein's theory of relativity, matter can niether be created or destroyed, so there would have been at least residue of the elements that did not incinerate into gas. That means that all of the titanium from the engines would have to have been there, as titanium is an element that does not turn into gas. Aluminum is an element that does not turn into gas. Most of any airplane is aluminum. All of the aluminum would have to have been there, as it does not incinerate into gas!! All of the other elements, even if it did incinerate would have to have left their melted residue-- from the entire 767 air plane!!! They official 9/11 commission uses the term, disintegrate, as the 1950's Ed Wood movies used it, to mean disintegrate into nothingness, but that does not occur on Earth, any more than the Ed Wood depiction of Martians from Mars raising the recent dead, as an army of zombies to conquer the Earth for Mars. The wreckage of the plane should have been
there, except for what would have incerated into gas, such as wood or paper, but would still have left ash left as residue. Everyone has seen plane crash pictures, and the wreckage should have been there!! Judy, (abd Ph.D.) 9/11Scholars for Truth
JP Liggett <JP@JPLiggett.com > wrote: TO ROBERT RUST
oh, by the way, when you find the 80 tons of plane wreckage, please point it out to the group. (not just a statement that "there is lots of wreckage" ) Perhaps this three minute video may help
http://pentagonstrike.co.uk/ pentagon. htm
when your done, perhaps you could explain wtc 7 and the air-force stand-down. (not an overt order, but the results speak for themselves. with or without training exercises, which is an attempt to obfuscate the truth)
there is enough evidence to indict the perp's for murder of law enforcement agents, which is usually a death penalty. Anyone helping the perps hide the evidence, attacking the truth evidence or attacking 9/11 patriots, is evidence of conspiracy to murder law enforcement agents.
"rriverrapid" <rustrobert@hotmail.com >
Sent by: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. 06/18/2006 02:11 AMcom
Please respond to
911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
To
911TruthAction@yahoogroups. cccom
Subject
[911TruthAction] Have seen the photos
Hi Dick,
Contrary to your interesting claims, I have looked at the crash
photo you mentioned. I have also looked at and studied many more
photos and analysis of the crash site. I have studied claims and
counter claims, what the critics of critics had to say, and much more.
With interest I read your statement claiming I spend time with
John Judge and Kyle Hence. I'm motivated by truth discovery,
irregardless of who promotes actual truth. I do not know John Judge
--------------------- --------- ---
Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.- 12b.
seen the photos -evidence of elements that do not incinerate into ga
Posted by: "Judy Cunningham" mailto:drjudyforjustice@yahoo.com?Subject=Re: drjudyforjustice
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:17 pm (PST)
according to Einstein's theory of relativity, matter can niether be created or destroyed, so there would have been at least residue of the elements that did not incinerate into gas. That means that all of the titanium from the engines would have to have been there, as titanium is an element that does not turn into gas. Aluminum is an element that does not turn into gas. Most of any airplane is aluminum. All of the aluminum would have to have been there, as it does not incinerate into gas!! All of the other elements, even if it did incinerate would have to have left their melted residue-- from the entire 767 air plane!!! They official 9/11 commission uses the term, disintegrate, as the 1950's Ed Wood movies used it, to mean disintegrate into nothingness, but that does not occur on Earth, any more than the Ed Wood depiction of Martians from Mars raising the recent dead, as an army of zombies to conquer the Earth for Mars. The wreckage of the plane should have been
there, except for what would have incerated into gas, such as wood or paper, but would still have left ash left as residue. Everyone has seen plane crash pictures, and the wreckage should have been there!! Judy, (abd Ph.D.) 9/11Scholars for Truth
JP Liggett <JP@JPLiggett.com > wrote: TO ROBERT RUST
oh, by the way, when you find the 80 tons of plane wreckage, please point it out to the group. (not just a statement that "there is lots of wreckage" ) Perhaps this three minute video may help
http://pentagonstrike.co.uk/ pentagon. htm
when your done, perhaps you could explain wtc 7 and the air-force stand-down. (not an overt order, but the results speak for themselves. with or without training exercises, which is an attempt to obfuscate the truth)
there is enough evidence to indict the perp's for murder of law enforcement agents, which is usually a death penalty. Anyone helping the perps hide the evidence, attacking the truth evidence or attacking 9/11 patriots, is evidence of conspiracy to murder law enforcement agents.
"rriverrapid" <rustrobert@hotmail.com >
Sent by: 911TruthAction@yahoogroups. 06/18/2006 02:11 AMcom
Please respond to
911TruthAction@yahoogroups. com
To
911TruthAction@yahoogroups. cccom
Subject
[911TruthAction] Have seen the photos
Hi Dick,
Contrary to your interesting claims, I have looked at the crash
photo you mentioned. I have also looked at and studied many more
photos and analysis of the crash site. I have studied claims and
counter claims, what the critics of critics had to say, and much more.
With interest I read your statement claiming I spend time with
John Judge and Kyle Hence. I'm motivated by truth discovery,
irregardless of who promotes actual truth. I do not know John Judge
--------------------- --------- ---
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
- 13.
I am thrown off another large list
Posted by: "Dick Eastman" mailto:olfriend@nwinfo.net?Subject=Re: oldickeastman
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:41 pm (PST)
Conspiracy-theory had over a thousand readers. I was banned following a series of letters by "razl dazl" accusing me of being a neo-nazi.
Now I am banned from "ctrl" -- losing another 600 readers. Here is the misleading letter from "razl dazl" that did the job.
Maybe you want to ban me here too, no?
----- Original Message -----
From: "razl dazl" <razldazl@iinet.net.au >
To: <ctrl@yahoogroups.com >; <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups. >; <a-albionic@yahoogrocom ups.com >
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [ctrl] Dick Eastman Has Completely Reverted To Nazism
From: "razl dazl" <razldazl@iinet.net.au >
To: <ctrl@yahoogroups.com >; <Conspiracy-Theory@yahoogroups. >; <a-albionic@yahoogrocom ups.com >
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [ctrl] Dick Eastman Has Completely Reverted To Nazism
Mark, anecdotally, one has never known, or seen a time that "DICK
Eastman," was anything but a neo-Nazi style propagandist.
After recently reviewing some of his insane screeds, I discovered that
he'd also regularly deposited fecal droppings directly linked to
Islamo-Fascist propaganda sites -on lists that he, and "his" numerous
MPD-persona's infest.
It would appear he is too stupid to realize what "footprints" and
"traces" he actually leaves on the Net.
One of his recent screeds that comes to mind was linked to a site which
has been accused of being a go-between for terrorist networking and
strategic activities. I will post the information; as time permits.
As history demonstrates, the extremist elements of Islam, circa WWII,
became affiliated with the Nazi's.
Re:- the Muslim Grand Mufti, circa WW II:
"In an article published in New York Times, journalist Edwin Black,
author of IBM and the Holocaust » [8], writes in reporting events of
1941 : « His venomous rhetoric filled the newspapers and radio
broadcasts in Tehran. The mufti was a vocal opponent of allowing Jewish
refugees to be transported or ransomed into Jewish Palestine. Instead,
he wanted them shipped to the gas chambers of Poland."
cf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ (temporary)Amin_al-Husseini /anti-semitism_
See also:
"Hitler's Mufti: The Dark Legacy of Haj Amin al-Husseini"
http://www.crisismagazine.com/ december2005/ rychlak.htm
You currently have the same symbiosis; a preset-day convergence of neo-
Islamo-Fascism and neo-Nazism.
From his screeds, Dick Eastman therefore more inappropriately typifies
an Islamo-Nazi.
He obsessively lies and spin-doctors. Recently, he deliberately
dismembered a key sentiment in a quote taken from Jefferson from a brief
writ on government and dissent, (see archives).
As disinformationists are want to do; they rely heavily on the
gullibility and ignorance of the masses and readers.
Uninformatively, the majority of conspiracy addicts are quite gullible
and never bother to check facts and information.
Many conspiracy addicts are superstitious and cult-like. If conspiracy
guru "X" says it's so, it must be so, particularly if a screed appeals
to their already innate prejudiced position.
"DICK Eastman's," abuse and dismembering of the sentiments of
Jefferson; demonstrated yet another incitement for a violent and armed
overthrow of the United States, which is in-line with militant
Islamo-Nazi extremists.
Arguably, there is at core, absolutely nothing that separates his
screeds from Islamo-Fascist terrorists seeking to annihilate the West,
the central present targets of their propaganda and violence being
Israel and the United States.
Razz
Mark S Bilk wrote:
> This article (partially reprinted below) claiming that
> schizophrenia is a contagious disease spread by Jews is the
> most disgusting and absurd thing that Dick Eastman has ever
> posted -- now under three different Subject lines:
>
> The Jewish disease --Jews display their mental illness through their parano
> The Jewish disease -- a compulsive desire for persecution -- paranoia
> 9-11 crime and mental disease -- -- Zionism as a psychological condition
>
> And he's also posting garbage from the nationalvanguard Nazi site
> under the Subject line:
>
> The radical individualism of Judeo-anarcho-capitalism is harmful to humanity
>
> Of course there is no virus associated with schizophrenia, or
> epidemiologists would have noticed it a long time ago, and the
> illness does not occur any more frequently in Jews than in
> any other group. Also, anarcho-capitalism was not invented
> by Jews any more than by Christians, atheists, etc.
>
> The real mental disease involved here is within Eastman, who,
> despite being an intelligent man with two academic degrees,
> doesn't have the rationality to see the obvious flaws in this
> Nazi propaganda, nor to realize that Nazis are allied with the
> Neocons that he's fighting against regarding 9-11. The Bush
> family played a major role in financing the Nazis prior to and
> during WWII.
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 08:42:18PM -0000, Dick Eastman wrote:
>> From: Dick Eastman
>> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 11:27 AM
>>
>> Subject: The Jewish disease --Jews display their mental illness
>> through their paranoia -- a compulsive desire for persecution --
>> inability to differentiate between right and wrong
>>
>> Psychiatric News, published by the
>> American Psychiatric Association. Oct. 25, 1972
>>
>> "While Jews attack non-Jewish Americans for racism,
>> Israel is the most racist country in the world"
>> Dr. Hutschnecker said.
>> Evidence that Jews are carriers of schizophrenia is disclosed in a
>> paper prepared for the American Journal of Psychiatry by Dr. Arnold A.
>> Hutschnecker, the New York psychiatrist who once treated President Nixon.
>>
>> In a study entitled "Mental Illness: The Jewish Disease" Dr.
>> Hutschnecker said that although all Jews are not mentally ill, mental
>> illness is highly contagious and Jews are the principal sources of
>> infection.
>>
>> Dr. Hutschnecker stated that every Jew is born with the seeds of
>> schizophrenia and it is this fact that accounts for the world-wide
>> persecution of Jews.
>>
>> "The world would be more compassionate toward the Jews if it was
>> generally realized that Jews are not responsible for their condition."
>> Dr. Hutschnecker said. "Schizophrenia is the fact that creates in Jews
>> a compulsive desire for persecution."
>>
>> Dr. Hutschnecker pointed out that mental illness peculiar to Jews is
>> manifested by their inability to differentiate between right and
>> wrong. He said that, although Jewish canonical law recognizes the
>> virtues of patience, humility and integrity, Jews are aggressive,
>> vindictive and dishonest.
>> ...
----------
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